GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Big Bore AirGun Gate => Topic started by: mackeral5 on March 21, 2019, 05:51:04 PM
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This one arrived today. Berky had it listed and we made a fair deal, he shipped it promptly and well packed. It arrived with the gauge sitting on 3000psi.
I mounted a scope and got it sighted in at 80 yards, which is the most I can safely shoot at this time. At some point I will put it over the chronograph, but for now I'm content with it as delivered. The WAR LDC is pretty effective, but at some point I do want to mount something with a little more displacement such as a shogun, something from Mr Clague.
It appears to be very accurate, but it is somewhat hold sensitive compared to my other, lower powered guns.
I assume this is a non-Cobra valve as it is unregulated.
I've got a good bit of .30 pellets so for now it's a pellet shooter. I could see it becoming a 24" barreled slug shooter...
Please share any pointers you may have as this is all new territory for me.
(http://i67.tinypic.com/29mnc5i.jpg)
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Congratulations Mike! The Flex is on my short list of wanna get airguns.
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Congratulations Mike! The Flex is on my short list of wanna get airguns.
Thanks Dave. I'm not sure if it will be the gun "for me" but I'm going to give it a whirl.
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The comment about hold sensitive.... Yes, it is slightly hold sensitive due to recoil. However after 25 or so more shots I realized it wasn't all me. Time for a tear down...
(http://i67.tinypic.com/14ak56u.jpg)
It's a normal style valve with approximately .25" transfer and .280ish throat. Poppet is slightly extruded. almost 80 gram hammer. Hammer almost had to be beat out of the tube it was so full of gunk. This likely had something to do with the erratic shots. Heavy valve spring with hammer in at least 1/4 inch of free flight.
You'll see a 13ci paintball tank screwed into the tank block, this was a test fit/mock up. I plan to put one of my 500cc 4500psi tanks and regs on it. I believe it will seal up with the oring positioned like the OEM flex bottle.
I don't plan to make any permanent mods so the gun can be returned to OEM form should it not be a good fit for me and I opt to sell it.
Here is a simple mod plan:
1) peek poppet with 2mm stem
2) 500cc 4500psi bottle reg'd to 2200psi (I think that's where it's currently at.)
I'll see where this puts me, I may add a Cobra chamber as well.
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You gotta great gun there! As you've found out the .30 airguns can be hold sensitive as I've learned from my personal guns like a RAW HM1000X .30 and my WARP COBRA .30. however once you learn them the accuracy is outstanding! I lubed my pellets with the WARP and made great accuracy into amazing accuracy
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Jim Gaska is a very nice guy and his contact info is on the Wicked Air Rifles website.
He can provide you with spare parts and such and has always charged me a super fair price for my parts I ordered from him and work I have sent him.
He's working a LOT of hours on his main job and doing WAR stuff just part time in the cracks so can't always answer the phone at that moment, but he does answer back as soon as he can. Or shoot him an email.
Also, some parts have evolved and there might be an updated version so ask on that too.
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Thanks for the info on Jim. I'm glad to know that he is there if needed. For now I think I am fine, I just need to find a spare hour or two to spin up a peek poppet. I will be anxious to see how the flex responds, considering the slight extrusion of the poppet and going to a harder poppet material.
As delivered shot count was around 15 shots from 3000psi down to 2000psi. I hope to be able to find a 30+,shot tune with the regulated tank. If this all works I may start looking for a Cobra reg.....
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On an unregulated Flex with the old WAR valve and a 17” barrel, you ought to be getting 20 to 24 shots from 2900psi to 2100psi at 80fpe. Do you have an idea what power level its shooting at now?
Regulated (WAR regulator) with the stock WAR valve and a lighter hammer and spring, you can easily tune the gun for 30-35psi per shot at 74-75fpe for a bunch of shots between a 3600psi fill to the 2200psi reg setpoint.
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BTW, is your trigger the 1 or 2 stage Timney?
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Thanks for the tune info. I believe Berky said the current tune was around 900fps with 44gr. My chrony is still packed up from moving so I didn't test velocity prior to tearing down. Based on the random fliers I saw I knew at minimum it needed a good cleaning.
I believe the trigger is single stage, can confirm this evening.
Regarding a lighter hammer---- what hammers will fit? I will start watching the classifieds.....i definitely would like to get away from the 80grams if possible.
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Any hammer for a Marauder should work...
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At a 80fpe tune, you ought to get 5-8 more shots than you did. Sometimes the transfer port orings go out and need to be replaced. Which outdoor temp can also effect your shotcount. I often run my official shot count strings on a hot day. Can’t remember when I ran them on my original Flex.
One thing to think about before you change the hammer and add the regulator... how much flexibility (no pun intended) do you want on your power levels? You ought to be able to easily run between 70fpe and 110fpe as it is with just hammer spring adjustments you can access on the fly with a folding stock adapter. When you regulate it and lighten the hammer and spring, 90fpe will be your upper limit unless you drop in a Cothran valve.
One more thing, if you run it unregulated, never fill past 3600psi. The older Flexes like you have seem to have been made of thicker steel, but the newer Flexes for sure can’t take more than 3600psi in the tube. I ruined a tube that way in my long Flex thinking it was ok to run at 4100psi because the bottle is rated 4500psi. It pushed the valve back and dug out the retention screw slots a hair.
I think the Flex is begging for a titanium tube.
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Great info Travis, especially the max fill piece. The tube is pretty thick, but I had no idea that it was spec'd for 3500psi, I was only filling to 3000 before.
You know I'm really not sure where I will ultimately end up with this one. Initially I do want to see what compromise of fpe, shot count, and efficiency I can find with a regulated tune. Later I'm sure I will also be curious about a max fpe unregulated tune.
Next steps will be to spin up a peek poppet and screw on a regulated bottle. No hammer or hammer spring changes, at least not initially. Hopefully I'll have some results by this time tomorrow.
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Tonight I 80% finished the peek poppet, all that remains on it is to cut the oring groove. I also bushed down the valve body to allow for the 2mm poppet stem. Tomorrow I will fit the poppet oring then finish making the Cobra chamber. Hopefully by mid to late afternoon I will have some numbers to share.
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Yesterday didn't quite go as planned. But I did learn a few things.
I adjusted the regulator to 2250psi, this part went as planned with no issues. it was downhill from here though.
Adding a paintball regulator isn't compatible with the 17" barrel, if you want an LDC and a 500cc tank.
(http://i67.tinypic.com/2ng7igy.jpg)
But if you have a 350cc tank you can add a paintball regulator.
(http://i67.tinypic.com/33tte9z.jpg)
I did normal things I would in any of my guns---looked for burrs, rounded edges, etc. Once content I reassembled the tube and left off the upper so I could check for leaks.
Upon airing up to around 1500psi it immediately starts leaking out the valve exhaust. then something starts extruding out of the valve exhaust. it was a clear o-ring. I'm thinking there's no way I left a loose o-ring floating around in the gun. Strange...
After tearing down and disassembling the valve I had a sinking feeling in my stomach....I ended up basically ruining the valve. When I was rounding out the corner of the transition from valve throat to exhaust, I got too aggressive and got into the o-ring area where the stainless throat seals to the aluminum body.....
Chalk this one up to getting in a hurry and not properly studying prior to getting out the dremel.......
It gets better..... But it's time for church, I'll add more later.
The short of it is I ordered a WAR Cobra valve off of Jim's website this morning. Hopefully he has one in stock....
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Well....I somewhat recovered.... I took a longshot and tried to salvage the ruined valve. At this point I didn't have anything more to lose so I pulled out the epoxies.... It took a couple of attempts to get it right. I got in a hurry and used superglue, it worked good enough to learn I had to go much bigger on the Cobra jet than usual. I was having to really lean on the HST to get velocity above 800fps. then I used JB Kwik but was still in too big of a hurry and it leaked.
Last night i mixed up a batch of regular JB Weld and glued the valve throat/seat in with it. This evening all looked good to go so I cleaned things up and reassembled. Aired up to 1500, she seemed to be holding air well, it didn't even hiss while the poppet was seating. Finished assembly and aired up to 4000.
this puts the gun in the following configuration. 350cc 4500psi carbon bottle. Regulated to 2250psi with a paintball reg. One of my home brewed peek poppets with 2mm stem and a home brewed Cobra chamber. Valve exhaust, transfer and barrel remain OEM Flex. OEM heavy hammer and hammer spring. Pellets are JSB 44's
After a bit of hst adjusting I took the first string, which was well up on the plateau--(String 2 on the chart). 20 shots at 76fpe.
I dialed it back by a couple of turns and got the nice, crisp POP of a Cobra-chambered valve tuned low on the knee. Time for another string, this one is labeled string 3 on the chart. This also yielded buttery-smooth cocking.
42 shots averaging 855 FPS, 72 FPE, with an ES of 21
Both strings were from 4000psi down to 2000psi.
(http://i68.tinypic.com/20pdo9g.png)
I'm grateful to be at this place vs. where I was Sunday.....I was really disappointed with myself for ruining the valve.
As a result of the valve debacle, there is a Cothran valve on the way and a WAR Cobra on order from Jim. The Cothran will be here this week, no clue on the WAR Cobra. At some point I will test these valves.
Does anyone make a tank block that has more drop than this one, other than the Cobra block/regulator? I would really like to put the 500cc bottle back on.
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So far she is holding air overnight with no sign of any leaks, so that's good. I decided to put some lead to paper and see what difference a good cleaning and retuning made. It did very well as there were ZERO fliers. It shot like a totally different gun.
Shots are taken while leaning against my truck, with the bipod rested on the bedcover. Not the most stable shooting position and I'm not the best shot to begin with, but now I can say the Flex is outshooting me. It is ready for a more appropriate shooting position.
Distance is 85 yards, pellets are JSB 44's. For me, in this shooting position these are decent groups. But they are close to 2" which is dismal when considering what the Flex is capable of. The top left target has 2 mags on it, the first mag was a sighter, the second was after adjusting the scope. The rest are 1 mag per target (7 shots).
(http://i64.tinypic.com/erivlk.jpg)
Here's a pic with the 350cc bottle and paintball reg.
(http://i63.tinypic.com/wsppac.jpg)
I hope to install a lighter hammer in upcoming weeks so I can reduce dwell and gain some efficiency. For now I haven't seen any problems with my home brewed cobra valve so I won't be in any hurry to try the other valves.
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Very respectable groupings. 8)
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Looks pretty darned good to me! I like that stock. What is it?
Mike
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Thanks guys.
This is the stock. I wasn't sure about it until I realized I just needed to set it up. After adjusting, I like it a lot. A very precise, robust unit.
https://xlrindustries.com/collections/buttstocks
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Awesome results! Very respectable from a 350cc bottle tune wise. And I think the accuracy is looking good in those conditions! For me the .30 is my favorite caliber.
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Awesome results! Very respectable from a 350cc bottle tune wise. And I think the accuracy is looking good in those conditions! For me the .30 is my favorite caliber.
Thanks Dillon. This is my first .30, I like it so far. This saved me from wasting $$$ building a .30 QB78. If I grow tired of the Flex, it will still be worth in the neighborhood of what I paid for it. I do look forward to exploring the tuning spectrum. I can already see the attraction of a 20+ inch, maybe 24 inch barrel on the Flex and then have a WARP as the compact short barreled version.
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Tonight I installed a light hammer. it is actually a JSAR Buffer Hammer. It is all MDS with no brass insert. It weighs right at 30 grams with a 1/4-28 socket head cap screw as a striker. I also installed a lighter hammer spring, something I had lying around.
Shot were a nice crisp, sharp POW. The peek poppet is barely large enough to function so it is very easy to open compared to the OEM poppet. This meant with the OEM heavy hammer I had to dial it back a good bit, almost an inch of hammer free flight. This resulted in a slow hammer strike, long lock time, and excessive dwell. Now that is no longer the case. I can't wait to test on targets tomorrow. It is running with a little preload against the valve, no free flight with this setup. I saw a max of 915fps when testing preload. Keep in mind this is with a Cobra chamber so max should be 20-40fps higher than that. Reg is 2250psi.
After dialing back to 880ish I filled to 4500psi and ran a string of JSB 44's. I should have burned the first shot as it was a little low immediately after the fill.
(http://i68.tinypic.com/23mocvt.png)
350 cc tank giving 50 shots averaging 883fps, just over 77fpe.
In the next week or so I should be able to mount my 500cc tank and dial the power up a little more.
I cleaned the barrel today. while I had it out I pushed a pellet through. I did NOT feel a choke??? I have a sample pack of slugs from Neilsen on order, looking forward to seeing how they do.
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Last night I realized that I shortened hammer throw a little more than necessary when adapting the Mrod Buffer hammer. So this morning I pulled the hammer and made an adjustment to the length of cap screw and brass spacer/weight being used as a striker. I weighed the hammer assembly and found it to be a little lighter than I had stated above.
(http://i67.tinypic.com/xp55sn.jpg)
Call it 24 grams. I have a couple more hammers arriving today to give me more weights to test with. To get in the 880's with JSB 44's this hammer requires a little more HST than I want, so maybe going up a little in hammer weight will help to tighten up ES while not hurting efficiency. Shooting targets is a different experience now, the shot cycle is virtually cut in half and the report is more of a crisp POP vs a BLAM.
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Following your journey with it Mike. Looking forward to the slug test. 8)
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Slug sampler arrived a couple of days ago. With only 25 of each I need to be very thoughtful in how I use them and collect data. But, I couldn't resist putting one of the heaviest and one of the lightest across the chronograph.
60gr gave 750fps
47gr gave 872fps
As a refresher, the gun is currently tuned at 885fps with JSB 44.75gr. Reg is 2250psi. Hammer is ultralight at 24 grams.
By mid-late next week I hope to have a WAR Cobra valve and Cobra regulator in my hands. I also have a Cothran valve but based on my experience with the Cothran I am hesitant to try it on a short barrel unless air consumption wasn't a concern. I will likely save the Cothran for when I get my hands on a 24ish inch slug barrel....
With the short barrel and externally adjustable Cobra reg, I think I want the ability to change between pellets and slugs, which mean making compromises....
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I'll bet it withe the Cothran valve it will be stellar with the 24" barrel! ;)
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I put a few of the 47gr on target yesterday.
They were all over the place, 3 inch groups.
Perhaps they want to run faster than 870fps?
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I put a few of the 47gr on target yesterday.
They were all over the place, 3 inch groups.
Perhaps they want to run faster than 870fps?
Exactly what I am doing this morning with an NOE Based Bullet. ;)
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I’ve never maxed out the FPE on my long Flex. It has a 24” barrel with a Cothran valve. Don thought I should be able to get close to 200fpe on my setup when tuned right. I’m content to keep it between 110fpe and 120fpe on a 2300psi regulator set point. I use that gun specifically for the BBT 65 gr HPs I cast (which come out to 60 gr with my alloy and with the deep HP).
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That's great info Travis, thank you for sharing.
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Here's a couple of data points from my 357 Flex with Cothran valve and 24 inch barrel, DonnyFL Emperor:
Shooting Cobra Regulated at 2700psi setpoint(approx 100psi per shot):
- shoots 81gr JSB Diabolo and 81gr Polymags at around 895fps for about 145fpe.
- shoots 97.5gr Morrill Diabolo at around 845fps for about 155fpe.
- shoots 110gr NSA at around 830fps for about 165fpe.
- shoots 120gr NSA at around 800fps for about 170fpe.
Shooting Unregulated from 3600psi down(approx 150psi per shot):
- shoots 120gr NSA at about 885fps for about 210fpe.
- shoots 140gr NSA at about 840fps for about 220fpe.
With the cothran valve, if unregulated, it is a definite declining shot string. I have it currently setup to shoot regulated at 2700psi because I like the consistency and the 81gr JSB/Polymags are literally pellet on pellet at 30 yards. The 97.5gr Rick Morrill Diabolo pellets shoots well longer range as it achieves a 0.070 bc, compared to 0.042 for the 81gr pellets.
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I am unfamiliar with his products. (rick Morrill). Where can they be found?
Knife
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Rick Morrill has a store on eBay.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/ricmor_hv3fazc3/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from= (https://www.ebay.com/sch/ricmor_hv3fazc3/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=)
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More great info. This thread is turning into an great Flex resource.
I have shot a few rounds through the flex every day after work. At 85 yards I have a 2" spinner. The Flex nails it every time. First shot of the day after sitting aired up overnight nails it. A little over 50 shots of JSB 44's averaging 885fps isn't too shabby..
The current tune--home made Cobra chamber, 24 gram hammer, and a 2250psi regulated 350cc bottle is doing so good that I will be hesitant to touch it next week when a couple of shipments arrive. A WAR Cobra valve should be arriving from Jim and a Cobra regulator from Dillon. I think i can go ahead and put the Cobra regulator and 500cc bottle on with very little risk in affecting (losing) the current tune. The WAR Cobra valve will likely spend a while sitting next to the Cothran in the parts bin.
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Rick Morrill has a store on eBay.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/ricmor_hv3fazc3/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from= (https://www.ebay.com/sch/ricmor_hv3fazc3/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=)
Thanks! ;) 8)
Knife
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Rick Morrill has a store on eBay.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/ricmor_hv3fazc3/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from= (https://www.ebay.com/sch/ricmor_hv3fazc3/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=)
Hummm, link takes me to eBay but not a store, just the home page.
EBay Search for 'Rick Morrill' gives no results and suggests instead : Rick Morris? ? ?
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https://www.ebay.com/sch/ricmor_hv3fazc3/m.html?item=163079217089&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562 (https://www.ebay.com/sch/ricmor_hv3fazc3/m.html?item=163079217089&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562)
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I am unfamiliar with his products. (rick Morrill). Where can they be found?
Knife
This is the 97.5 gr Diabolo pellet I mentioned above that I use for longer range due to its much better BC of 0.070.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/357-AIR-RIFLE-PELLETS-9mm-97-5-GRAIN-JUMBO-HEAVY-BUY-3-GET-1-FREE-/163131634740?nav=SEARCH (https://www.ebay.com/itm/357-AIR-RIFLE-PELLETS-9mm-97-5-GRAIN-JUMBO-HEAVY-BUY-3-GET-1-FREE-/163131634740?nav=SEARCH)
Hits like a truck. The way it is shaped, it behaves almost like a hybrid pellet/slug. Exits my Flex's muzzle at 845fps/155fpe, retains a speed of 700fps at 105fpe downrange at 100 yards. Lethal...
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Rick Morrill has a store on eBay.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/ricmor_hv3fazc3/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from= (https://www.ebay.com/sch/ricmor_hv3fazc3/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=)
Hummm, link takes me to eBay but not a store, just the home page.
EBay Search for 'Rick Morrill' gives no results and suggests instead : Rick Morris? ? ?
Carl, link takes you to all the pellets/slugs he has for sale. I'm not sure what else you need to see?
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Rick has some great stuff that my korean girls like...... 8)
and i bet my Pitbull carbine will too, when it gets here ???
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A package containing a Cobra regulator and a few mags arrived today. This was a good excuse to shoot the flex to start airing down to swap in the Cobra reg. After a couple of mags air was down enough to dry fire it down the rest of the way and remove the regulated 350cc bottle. I found a couple of small black Ninja 5k gauges to replace the OEM whitefaced/chrome gauges with. Then I ran into a problem when attempting to screw the WAR brass bottle adapter into the Cobra reg. It would screw in around a half turn and no further. After testing with a few different bottles/adapters it appears the Cobra reg is tapped too small/tight. Numerous ASA fittings will not screw into the reg and the brass bottle adapter perfectly screws into all of my ASA female bottle adapters.
Hopefully Amazon has a bottoming tap that can be here by Friday.
Anyone know the specific size/pitch I need?
(http://i64.tinypic.com/22zuo3.jpg)
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While waiting for the tap to arrive I decided to do some unregulated slug testing. I knew that my light hammer wouldn't do for this so I adapted in a 55gram Mrod MDS hammer. Here's a pic of 3 hammers I have for the Flex. Left to right--a 24gram JSAR "buffer hammer", a 55 gram JSAR "super hammer", and the 80 gram Gen 1 WAR hammer.
(http://i67.tinypic.com/2efq8ah.jpg)
I quickly found a 3000psi down to approximately 2500 psi tune that was 8 shots from 880 up to 890 and back to 880fps with NSA 60 grains. Not too bad for the 17" barrel. 5 shots easily go into an inch and a half at 50 yards, from a less than ideal shooting position. Then I ran out of 60 grainers, there were only 25 in the sampler pack. It may be worth ordering more of these.
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Mike,
What is the difference mechanically with the buffer hammer?
Mike
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Oh shoot it doesn't fit?! That's weird. My bottle adapter unscrewed easily and screwed easily into the unregulated block.
I wonder if they were changed slightly being your Flex is basically a gen1? I'd assume they can't be that different but who knows.
That's some impressive power!! Having the regulated Warp before it made some pretty good power but this unregulated Flex is just crazy. Im betting can easily hit 120fpe with a 3600psi fill with a heavy hammer and strong spring.
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Mike,
What is the difference mechanically with the buffer hammer?
Mike
In an Mrod, it allows for the striker to be recessed, limiting how far the valve opens. I think this was a product of Travis' thrashing around fighting stiction with SS valves.
In this application it's just a light MDS hammer, as I am having to lengthen OAL with a longer striker. This prevents the Timney's sear from popping up behind the hammer, requiring you to squeeze the trigger while cocking. I didn't have to learn this the hard way, at least not this item, thanks to David's thread.
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Oh shoot it doesn't fit?! That's weird. My bottle adapter unscrewed easily and screwed easily into the unregulated block.
I wonder if they were changed slightly being your Flex is basically a gen1? I'd assume they can't be that different but who knows.
That's some impressive power!! Having the regulated Warp before it made some pretty good power but this unregulated Flex is just crazy. Im betting can easily hit 120fpe with a 3600psi fill with a heavy hammer and strong spring.
Based on reading David's post it's not surprising, he found some tolerance stacking issues with threads on his. But now that i am thinking about it his issue was when screwing the reg into the tube--and I haven't checked that yet. I will possibly have a problem there as well....and have to order another tap, lol...
With your 20" barrel I bet 120 is well within reach. I am amazed at 103fpe with the 17" barrel....
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My tap arrived and I was successful at fitting the brass bottle adapter to the Cobra reg/block. Then I encountered the next hurdle---- the Cobra reg/ tank block won't thread into the tube. This is the same problem David (PCPHACK) encountered in his Flex thread.
I guess I need to find an adjustable die and work on that end of the cobra reg.......
Since I have to wait on more parts I put the 350cc reg'd bottle back on.
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At this point, I would be pulling what little hair I have left out. :-X
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At this point, I would be pulling what little hair I have left out. :-X
It has been challenging.. along with $150 in tools that I likely/HOPEFULLY will never need again.....
All so I can fit a Cobra regulator on a perfectly functioning gun---it's going to be better, right?? It seems to be doing fine right now with the hybrid aliexpress/ninja reg on it, lol.
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I converted my Brod from Ninja to WAR COBRA and was pleased overall and had none of the issues you guys have encountered in the conversion.
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I’m thinking the primary difference is in this gun starting as a first gen Flex. My first gen short Flex also had problems taking some of the Cobra parts.
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The die arrived today so I was able to fit the Cobra Reg and 500cc bottle. I almost thought the bipod mount wasn't going to fit. It didn't fit with my reg testing mini tank, but luckily there was just barely enough room with the 500cc bottle. I left my 2mm stemmed, peek poppet, and Cobra mod'd gen 1 Flex valve in it. At some point I will test the WAR Cobra valve but for now I like the results i'm getting with my modded valve.
I sent the 80 gram oem hammer off to Rocker1 today to have a couple of MDS hammers made---one around 25 grams, one around 70 grams. The mods required to run a Mrod hammer in a flex gives up a good bit of hammer throw/stroke. Going back to a hammer with OEM dimensions should allow for easier to cock HST settings.
I set the reg a little over 2000psi on the gauge. With the micro ninja gauges it is hard to be precise. Velocity maxed at 921fps with JSB 44's, I dialed it back to 890fps and will leave it there until my 50gr JSB's arrive.
(http://i65.tinypic.com/20k537m.jpg)
Here's an obligatory target pic at 85 yards. The bottom left was a sighter, the top left and center were 1 mag each. Shots were taken standing with bipod resting on the bedcover.
(http://i63.tinypic.com/290zepc.jpg)
As a sidenote, I need to find some scope rings with built in droop compensation. I am using the UTG shims, but every time you remove the scope you have to re-zero as the system relies on the rings being mounted to the rail to be tight on the scope tube. if anyone has recommendations on an economical set please share, thanks in advance.
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Hard to beat the FX No-Limit rings (Bought mine from Trenier Outdoors), it's what I have on my WARP
Optically center the scope, mount and shoot and adjust the rings to close to zero, lock down n fine tune, then have so much adjustment left in the turret.
No binding on the scope which happens with shims
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Jeff of Trenier is very easy to deal with (Trenier, his last name spelled backwards) LOL! ;D ;)
Knife
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Thanks for the recommendation. I looked up the no limit rings, they look great. At some point in upcoming weeks I'll order a set. The current setup is aggravating to say the least.
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CRS in full swing. One of our posters listed a set from overseas that is stouter and good looking set for about half the price. Using two fasteners to set the angle rather than only one used in the FX rings. Hopefully someone will see this and remember.
Mike
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Thanks, I'll put up s post.
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Today a package from Eustis Florida was in the mail---it was from Rocker1. I immediately tore into it and found 4 hammers. My oem hammer and 3 MDS hammers of different weights. Roughly 24.4 grams, 54.5 grams and 67.2 grams. The lightest one has an adjustable peek striker.
I immediately installed the light one. By having these made and moving away from the modified Mrod hammers I recovered a little over 1/4" of hammer travel. This allowed for me to adjust it back to my JSB 50gr tune of 875fps but much easier to cock than before.
The hammer strike is now SILENT thanks for no moving metal, other than the hammer spring which is also silent thanks to a tight fitting delrin spring guide.
Everyone knows it already, but i do feel compelled to give David all the praise he deserves for what he does for the members of this community. He far exceeded my expectations in every way.
(http://i64.tinypic.com/j82w3o.jpg)
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David is Top's in my book! Over and beyond. ;)
Mike
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Mike, what hammer and slug combination seems to work out the best?
Everyone is correct, David is first class and a pleasure to deal with. I purchased a few LDC's and a Airforce Edge from him for my grandson, and he proved to be a real gentleman.
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Mike, what hammer and slug combination seems to work out the best?
Everyone is correct, David is first class and a pleasure to deal with. I purchased a few LDC's and a Airforce Edge from him for my grandson, and he proved to be a real gentleman.
Bob, I don't quite know yet. So far most of my testing has been with a 2250psi reg setting and JSB 44 and 50gr pellets. I briefly tested unregulated with NSA 60gr, but only had 25 to test with. Also, the valve currently installed is significantly modified---a Gen 1 WAR valve with peek poppet, 2mm stem, and an add-on Cobra chamber. Chances are whatever results this combination likes won't directly translate for other guns. I have both WAR Cobra and Cothran valves, at some point i plan to test with them.
Tuning for 100+ fpe is very new territory for me. All of my previous tuning is around light hammers and fast hammer strikes. For the 103fpe unregulated tune i used a 55 gram hammer
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Mike, what hammer and slug combination seems to work out the best?
Everyone is correct, David is first class and a pleasure to deal with. I purchased a few LDC's and a Airforce Edge from him for my grandson, and he proved to be a real gentleman.
Bob, I don't quite know yet. So far most of my testing has been with a 2250psi reg setting and JSB 44 and 50gr pellets. I briefly tested unregulated with NSA 60gr, but only had 25 to test with. Also, the valve currently installed is significantly modified---a Gen 1 WAR valve with peek poppet, 2mm stem, and an add-on Cobra chamber. Chances are whatever results this combination likes won't directly translate for other guns. I have both WAR Cobra and Cothran valves, at some point i plan to test with them.
Tuning for 100+ fpe is very new territory for me. All of my previous tuning is around light hammers and fast hammer strikes. For the 103fpe unregulated tune i used a 55 gram hammer
Mike, I started converting my .25 Marauder to .30 last December by purchasing a TJ barrel which I received within days and a JSAR Big Bore Balance valve which showed in stock at that time but unfunctionally it was out of stock so presently I have been waiting 5 months for their upgraded valve so the gun is still in the disassembled stage waiting for the new valve. Travis suggested a 50 gram hammer and stock spring as starting point.
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Mike, what hammer and slug combination seems to work out the best?
Everyone is correct, David is first class and a pleasure to deal with. I purchased a few LDC's and a Airforce Edge from him for my grandson, and he proved to be a real gentleman.
Bob, I don't quite know yet. So far most of my testing has been with a 2250psi reg setting and JSB 44 and 50gr pellets. I briefly tested unregulated with NSA 60gr, but only had 25 to test with. Also, the valve currently installed is significantly modified---a Gen 1 WAR valve with peek poppet, 2mm stem, and an add-on Cobra chamber. Chances are whatever results this combination likes won't directly translate for other guns. I have both WAR Cobra and Cothran valves, at some point i plan to test with them.
Tuning for 100+ fpe is very new territory for me. All of my previous tuning is around light hammers and fast hammer strikes. For the 103fpe unregulated tune i used a 55 gram hammer
Mike, I started converting my .25 Marauder to .30 last December by purchasing a TJ barrel which I received within days and a JSAR Big Bore Balance valve which showed in stock at that time but unfunctionally it was out of stock so presently I have been waiting 5 months for their upgraded valve so the gun is still in the disassembled stage waiting for the new valve. Travis suggested a 50 gram hammer and stock spring as starting point.
While I don't have any experience with Travis' valve, his advice sounds reasonable. it sounds like you're building an unregulated gun? If you were going regulated I would have suggested ordering either a WAR Cobra or a Cothran valve, as they are both readily available.
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I too plan on going the route of the SS valve in my Flex. But mine is unregulated as well.
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I too plan on going the route of the SS valve in my Flex. But mine is unregulated as well.
And I'll be watching, it may prompt me to add one more valve to my Flex parts bin....
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While I don't have any experience with Travis' valve, his advice sounds reasonable. it sounds like you're building an unregulated gun? If you were going regulated I would have suggested ordering either a WAR Cobra or a Cothran valve, as they are both readily available.
I would eventually like to regulate it for more consistent shots as I can live with less power.
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I too plan on going the route of the SS valve in my Flex. But mine is unregulated as well.
And I'll be watching, it may prompt me to add one more valve to my Flex parts bin....
Lol yeah it's nice to have choices for the valves. My plan is to go to slugs. Nick's got 47gr and 50gr slugs that are supposed to be accurate in the TJ barrels. I ordered 100 of each. Probably will buy some sizing dies also. Only thing is my barrel has a choke...hoping they work will slug the barrel tonight and see what I'm working with. Could always cut the choke off and rethread ???
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Still loving the Flex. It shoots at least as accurate as my Edgun R3M at 85 yards, which is better than I can shoot. I shoot the same groups with both guns. I have made a couple of slight changes so it was time to update the thread.
The current tune is JSB 44.75's around 905fps, which is good for 30-35 shots. It is amazing how efficiency drops off when going from 875fps to 905fps---when tuned for 875 it gets 50+ shots. But accuracy seems to be improved at 905fps. It doesn't seem to like the 50.15gr so much.
I installed the 1/2-20 tensioning nut and ended up drilling out my .25 Sumo to .30. Sound wise, this was a slight improvement over the Gen 1 Flex LDC.
(http://i68.tinypic.com/2j3jy3s.jpg)
After much back and forth internal struggle, bordering consternation lol, I took the plunge and vented the shroud. Venting was the answer----this combined with the Sumo yielded a backyard friendly reduction in muzzle blast, at least as backyard friendly as I need it to be. I no longer feel the burning need of finding and purchasing a Shogun.
(http://i67.tinypic.com/73mf4j.jpg)
Once the Cobra regulator/Acecare 500cc bottle combination was installed, there is no room for taking advantage of the adjustability built into a Gen 1 Flex bipod mount. So I ordered some 6065 aluminum rod and some Ti rod. After testing the 6065 aluminum for rigidity i chose it as the replacement material for the SS adjusting rods. The Flex went on a slight diet, losing 3.5oz, lol... I think it looks better, no longer having the ss rods protruding into the forearm/handle area.
(http://i68.tinypic.com/25imaoj.jpg)
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Looks great! I like what you've done with it. Have you tried the 50gr pellets at over 900fps? I heard they like faster speeds but haven't tried them myself as usually the 45gr ones are better
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Thank you Dillon. I appreciate your help in getting it together. I have yet to test with reg pressures above 2250psi (somewhere around there). With the current tune this puts 50gr up on the plateau around 880-890fps. Experience has shown with my home brewed Cobra chambers the plateau occurs 25-40fps lower than it would without the cobra chamber. So in a normal valve configuration the plateau would likely be around 925fps. I may bump the reg up a bit and see how that changes things with the 50gr.
I really like the 25gram hammer that Rocker1 made, coupled with a peek poppet it makes for a very snappy shot cycle. it is a very sharp POW, very similar to the sound of a powder burner. Zero noise out of the action, but I do hear a very faint, dull ping in the plenum. Compared to when I first got it (with the heavy gen 1 hammer) it is a totally different gun. Honestly I was very disappointed when I first shot it due to the almost violent slamming and clanging of the gen 1 hammer.....I'm glad that is behind me.
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Yeah I'm happy to help! That's alot of power though from a 17" barrel and 2250psi reg set for sure! Yeah I'm really liking the cobra in mine it seems to do a good job and make good power but I keep thinking man what would an SS valve do in this...benefit of balanced valve but get the bell curve like a traditional valve unlike the cothran.
Yeah I heard people had good accuracy with them at 950fps even but your shot count diminishes fast!! Yeah the lighter hammers really make a big difference in these guns. I'm surprised how much recoil mine has now compared to being tuned at 85fpe.
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This evening I finished making a transfer port for a Cothran valve. The Cothran doesn't have a "step" in the valve exhaust like the Flex does. This took some creativity on my part, but after a lot of thought I found a series of operations that would allow me to make a transfer port. I have brass hobby tubing from the smallest size all the way up to 9/16, I have all sizes in between. So I assembled a few pieces , soldered them together, and cut them to size by chucking the tubing in a drill and spinning at high speed while slowly tightening a tubing cutter to get through the layers. This is what I ended up with. On the right is the OEM WAR Flex transfer port, on the left is my home grown version designed for a Cothran valve on one end, the WAR pattern on the other.
(http://i66.tinypic.com/sbpvyx.jpg)
With my Cobra reg set at 3000psi, the Cothran produces these numbers:
NSA 66gr 860fps
JSB 50.15 950fps
JSB 44.75 990fps
NSA 55 915fps
I shot a string of JSB 50gr, starting with a full fill of 4500psi I got 15 shots averaging 950fps before falling off reg. Efficiency sux, but I guess not too bad considering the 17 inch barrel.
Tomorrow i plan to see if the 50gr group any better at this energy level----previously in the mid to high 800's they weren't as good as the 44's. I will also try the NSA's.
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Well done, and very nice AG! 8)
Knife
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Thank you Michael. The Cothran is easy to open, makes good power. But there is only so much a .25" port will flow, no matter how easy it is to open. Thus power is pretty much in line with what I've seen with my mod'd gen 1 valve. Actually I think my valve can do a little better than the cothran but it will require more hammer strike to do so....
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Cothran valve with 3000psi reg testing....all shots at 90 yards. I found 5 more yards in my home range....
(http://i68.tinypic.com/2akeag4.jpg)
NSA 55gr at 915fps
NSA 66gr at 870fps
Lower target is the 55gr. Upper right bull is the sighter... Center bull and upper left bull are 2 attempts at grouping. Upper target is 66gr with no scope adjustments after zeroing with the 55gr. Each bull has a 5-7 shot group. The 2 weights grouped similarly, but I ran out of 55gr quickly after getting it sighted in. The 66's "felt" better though. Best 5 shot group of 66's was 1.75"
(http://i63.tinypic.com/30c8w76.jpg)
I made no scope adjustments and shot some JSB's. The grouping left of the center bull is 44gr. The 4 shots in the vicinity of the lower right bull are indicative of my experience with the 50gr.
The 44's don't like running 990fps.... The 50's don't like any tune I've thrown at them from 850fps -950fps. I'm pretty much done with the JSB 50gr.
The 3 shots just off target to the left are 3 shots taken with a cast pellet that was graciously sent to my by shamu25. they are 45-46gr and previous testing running them in the high 800's didn't do as good. These 3 shots look promising--I will run a couple over the chrony and try a couple more groups with them. They must be running somewhere above 950fps and it appears they like it.
For this testing
JSB 44gr at 990fps
JSB 50gr at 950fps
(http://i68.tinypic.com/2q9f0k1.jpg)
I may clean the barrel and do some more testing with the 66gr and see if they tighten up any. So far not a bad start for 110fpe and a 17" barrel.
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Was in the middle of shooting groups after a barrel cleaning and things were going well, groups were indeed smaller than before. Then things went sideways. All of the sudden I couldn't hit the target. Inspection found the barrel snap ring had worked its way loose. Several attempts at resecuring failed. I'm going to try and locate another snap ring of appropriate size/strength. Hopefully this will solve it vs. the barrel groove/shoulder being rounded off.....
Going to post a Flex/Warp barrel snap ring question in the main PCP forum.....
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Got her back up and running. I ended up lapping the snap ring groove deeper by putting valve grinding compound in the groove, installing a new snap ring, then spinning the barrel while holding one ear of the snap ring with a pair of vice grips. This resulted in squaring the groove back up where it had somewhat rounded over when it pulled through the original snap ring.
I removed the Cothran valve and put in the WAR Cobra. Dialed reg pressure down from 3000psi to a more modest 2400psi then dialed in the hst for a nice pellet tune--JSB 44's are running 920fps. I also went back with the original WAR LDC to see how it does with a vented shroud. it's a little louder than the Sumo, but not much.
12 rounds of JSB 44 gr at 90 yards. This is one of those 4" gongs from Wally World.
(http://i63.tinypic.com/5yrcyh.jpg)
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This is looking really Good Mike!
I love it when someone shade tree engineers a successful way to conquer a problem.
Way To Go Mike! 8)
Mike
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This is looking really Good Mike!
I love it when someone shade tree engineers a sucessful way to concer a problem.
Way To Go Mine! 8)
Mike
Thanks Mike.
I made an interesting observation today when switching from pellets to slugs with no other changes.
Right now it is tuned for JSB 44gr at 915fps and the scope is zeroed at 90 yards. Switching to NSA 55gr running 845fps results in similar sized groups (1.75") and 1.5" HIGHER point of impact. It's amazing what difference BC makes..... a much heavier projectile running 70fps slower hits 1.5" higher at 90 yards.
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I’ve noticed the same thing out of my rainstorm 30. The 50 grain jsb have a slightly higher bc and I like them for close range work but can’t touch the 50,55 grain Nielsen slugs for longer ranges. The 50 jsb vary in weight more so than the 44.75’s also. And the Nielsen are really consistent and accurate. I believe the barrel is also 1-26. The bbt hp 66 grain I shoot are stellar at holding energy out to 100 yards and have an even better bc. They push faster than the heavier Nielsen because of less bearing surface, but I have to weigh and sort them. Hard to beat the consistency of swagged slugs.
I may have missed it.. what is your port on the cobra valve??
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Mike, sorry about the terrible spelling in my last post to you. Up all night in shop working on molds. GRRRRR!!
Mike
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Mike, sorry about the terrible spelling in my last post to you. Up all night in shop working on molds. GRRRRR!!
Mike
Lol...understood Mike. I've been known to create my own spellings of words, sometimes even creating my own words....
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I’ve noticed the same thing out of my rainstorm 30. The 50 grain jsb have a slightly higher bc and I like them for close range work but can’t touch the 50,55 grain Nielsen slugs for longer ranges. The 50 jsb vary in weight more so than the 44.75’s also. And the Nielsen are really consistent and accurate. I believe the barrel is also 1-26. The bbt hp 66 grain I shoot are stellar at holding energy out to 100 yards and have an even better bc. They push faster than the heavier Nielsen because of less bearing surface, but I have to weigh and sort them. Hard to beat the consistency of swagged slugs.
I may have missed it.. what is your port on the cobra valve??
Daniel- that's great information, thank you for sharing. The part about JSB 50gr varying more than the 44gr, that is great to know. With the 50gr I sometimes experienced great groups then would have fliers, this occurred a lot more often with the 50 than the 44.... yesterday after ordering 6 tins of 44gr I shot one of my best groups ever and it was with the 50gr, lol.
I've yet to get into sorting ammo, I need a better scale. I guess if I really want to tighten up my groups I'm going to have to start weighing/sorting....
The port/valve exhaust in my valve is .25" as is the barrel port. Due to the way the WAR barrel/probe is set up that is pretty much all you have room for. I didnt see how to go to full bore porting as there isn't enough distance between the face of the probe and the base of the projectile.
Now that I am thinking of it, perhaps slighly undercutting an inverted trough in the face of the probe, coupled with a barrel port elongated REARWARD would allow closer to full bore pitting? I need to inspect during my next teardown......
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Thanks for the great info guys. I'm following this as I am trying to decide between 30 and 357 as well as between Impact, Flex and Slayer.