GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Projectiles => Pellet Review Gate => Topic started by: 19Sheridan57 on March 20, 2019, 02:11:44 PM
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I just got some of the new JSB Exact Heavy .20 pellets, in 15.89 gr. This will be an ongoing review , test, & report of this new pellet . It is a joy to see a new .20 pellet visit my stable of Sheridans, & a couple of other .20 rifles that I have. This is another fine pellet by JSB, but about 1.5 g. heavier than their other .20 pellets.
#1. I could not find a single pellet that was damaged , either from the factory, or from shipping.
#2. A random sampling of 25 pellets showed very uniform weight & precise measurements , as close as my tools allowed.
#3. Head = 0.19 ,,, Skirt =0 .20,,, Length = 0.27 & weight 1.03 . Every one of the 25 in the sample was the same ! That alone , makes me happy
#4. Pellets were clean & the tin has extra insulation, to prevent damage .
#5. Pellets looked great under magnification, so I am anxious to test these.
NOW, comes the hard part. Which Sheridan do I want to start testing with ??
Keep watching this thread as I will keep adding information & results to it.
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Where did you get them from?
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Yes, where did you get them already?
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These are for test purposes. They should be available very soon.
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Well aren't you special!!! ;)
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WATA tease...tuning in. These just might have that little bit extra wallup I've been hoping for from my Dan's.
Hmmm...their not cheap...
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/jsb-match-diabolo-exact-heavy-20-cal-15-89-grains-domed-500-count?p=1510 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/jsb-match-diabolo-exact-heavy-20-cal-15-89-grains-domed-500-count?p=1510)
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WATA tease...tuning in. These just might have that little bit extra wallup I've been hoping for from my Dan's.
+1 on that.
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LOL, I can get .22 ammo for that price. Hope it drops down some :)
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Subscribed. Very interested in your results! We see new airguns fairly regularly. We do not see new pellets like these that regularly. Would love to see the pellet manufacturers produce new pellets that would be somewhat of a quantum leap in accuracy and precision. But then, that is stating the obvious already. Maybe just a new process with current designs that tighten tolerances and yield a more uniform pellet. Yes, agreed, it would cost more. By way of illustration, improved tire technology has done more to drop race lap times in the last 40 years than any mechanical improvement of the race cars, the tire being the greater part of the equation.
Until then, THANK YOU JSB for stepping out and taking a chance by producing a new pellet in .20!
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I will be going out in awhile to do some shooting of these new pellets. I only have a little time in the mornings to do these tests, so, " Hold your horses !" LOL.
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Go get ‘em Steve!
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I just ran a couple of tests with 2 different Sheridans . I picked out these 2 rifles because I felt that their velocities are about average with most other owners of Sheridans. First test was with the standard Benjamin/Sheridan 14.3 pellets .
1966 Blue Streak - 8 pumps
Pellets
Benj./Sher. 14.3 gr. 642 fps. = 13.09 ft. lbs.
JSB Heavy 15.89 " 612 " = 13.22 " "
1959 Silver Streak - 8 pumps
Benj./Sher. 14.3 gr. 656 fps. = 13.67 ft. lbs.
JSB Heavy 15.89 " 628 " = 13.92 " "
My eyesight is not as good as it once was, but the new JSB's are a bit more accurate than the B/S , just like their lighter JSB pellets. Penetration still goes to the B/S .
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That sounds encouraging. 👍🏼
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^^^I agree. Thanks for the info on these Steve.
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Good Job Steve.
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I will be going back out for more testing today, once " Mr. Sunshine " shows up in Florida. I have already picked out a couple of Sheridan rifles to test, & it will be interesting to see the results !
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Thanks for the report Steve.
I have been keeping an eye out on these since they were announced.
You seem to have an inside connection, Any idea when they will be available to the rest of us? So glad the .20 is still getting some love from JSB.
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As of this morning, PA is expecting to have these early next month. I generally get pellets from them once or twice a year and order enough to get free shipping. Going to make an exception, I must have some of these ASAP.
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Thanks for the report Steve.
I have been keeping an eye out on these since they were announced.
You seem to have an inside connection, Any idea when they will be available to the rest of us? So glad the .20 is still getting some love from JSB.
Thank you.
At first, I was expecting them to make a much heavier pellet , such as about 18 gr. That weight would really drag down the fps of a typical Sheridan , which average around 650 fps. Maybe that is the reason for them to decide on 15.89. This is still almost 2.2 gr heavier that the standard JSB Match Diabolo's, which are great pellets, as well .
I understand that these pellets are going to be available on the U.S. market, soon,,, VERY soon. I will make a post when I hear something.
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I picked these two Sheridans from the stable to be tested, today.
A Sheridan Model A Supergrade, and it's " son ," a Model B Sporter.
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It was a little chilly [ 46 ] outside this morning, but I did get to test the new pellets with a couple of OLD Sheridans. Here are the results ;
1953 Sheridan Model A Supergrade - 8 pumps
Pellets
Benj./Sher. 14.3 gr. 664fps. = 14 ft. lbs.
JSB Heavy 15.89 " 643 " = 14.59 " "
1951 Sheridan Model B Sporter - 8 pumps
Pellets
Benj./Sher. 14.3 gr. 657 fps. = 13.71 ft. lbs.
JSB Heavy 15.89 " 637 " = 14.32 " "
In my opinion , a .20 pellet has a considerable amount of energy shooting at 12 ft. lbs. Here, we have passed the 14 lb. mark, & it is getting impressive ! The wood backstop is getting hit pretty hard, & I can hear the difference in impact between these 2 pellets. I did cheat a little though, & was wearing my hearing aids ! LOL !
VERY accurate shooting, even for me , BUT, Sheridans are inherently accurate air rifles !! One reason I love them so much ! Accuracy goes to JSB's , & penetration still goes to the B/S pellets.
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Got a Webley Valuemax .20 by chance? I'll be buying some at some point anyway but be interesting to see what they do in one.
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I not only have my Sheridan's but am building a CO2 rifle around Crosman Parts and a .20 LW barrel.
That is what has me interested in the 15.89g. Being the weight of their .22 pellets I imagine the tweeks for it would be applicable.
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Those are a couple of fine looking fillies!
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Steve,
Yes, I do have a VMX. I will try to test it & a high powered Sheridan, tomorrow.
Thanks for the compliments !
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Steve, you're definitely the guy to test out the .20 pellets with all those different Sheridans.
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I got the " heavy artillery " out of the stable & am awaiting Mr. Sunshine to come over the Live Oaks this morning. I will be testing the new JSB's in a beefed-up, gorgeous 1962 Blue Streak, and a Webley VMX .20, that Steve asked about . We will see even higher ft. lbs. of energy with these two. The VMX [ made by Hatsan ] busted a Coyote that was chasing calves last Summer. The shot was in the side of his skull & it sounded like it hit a block wall.
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I hope everyone is enjoying this thread .
First , I took my 1962 Sheridan out for testing. I have had this beauty for years & believe it must be " beefed up " a little , since it always shoots at a higher speed than my other Sheridans. So, here are the results ;
1962 Sheridan Blue Streak - 8 pumps *
Pellets
Benj./Sher. 14.3 gr. 676 fps. = 14.51 ft. lbs.
JSB Heavy 15.89 " 652 " = 15.0 "
* So far, this is the only Sheridan to break the #15 mark, " & probably will be. I don't remember having a harder shooting Sheridan in the stables.
Next up is a " TWANGER " [ Break barrel ] in .20 that I have owned for a few years . It is totally original, except for a wooden stock.
Webley ValueMax [VMX ] .20, made by Hatsan. *
Benj./Sher. 14.3 gr. 732 fps. = 17.02 ft. lbs.
JSB Heavy 15.89 " 711 " = 17.84 " "
* WOW ! As you can see, this is a powerhouse rifle ! The new JSB pellets are a tight fit in this rifle, just like the lighter JSB's. Both weights of JSB's are quite a bit more accurate in this rifle, compared to the Benj./Sher. pellets. My target is mounted on a scrap piece of deck lumber, commonly called 5/4", & nailed to a tree. All 3 pellets, the B/S , lighter JSB's, & these new heavier JSB's , go completely through the piece of decking !! IMPRESSIVE !!
As you can probably tell,,,, I am really liking these new pellets !
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Impressive numbers...thank you very much sir :)
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I wonder if the numbers would be even higher if these pellets didn't fit so tightly in the Webley ?
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Thanks for the report Steve.
I have been keeping an eye out on these since they were announced.
You seem to have an inside connection, Any idea when they will be available to the rest of us? So glad the .20 is still getting some love from JSB.
^^^ yeah that ^^^
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Thanks for the report Steve.
I have been keeping an eye out on these since they were announced.
You seem to have an inside connection, Any idea when they will be available to the rest of us? So glad the .20 is still getting some love from JSB.
^^^ yeah that ^^^
Sorry to be late in answering.
I have been told that they were close, very close to having these stocked & ready for sale at vendors. DON'T hold me to this, but I initially heard that the price would be over $20/tin. Now, I am hearing closer to $18.
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I have some more Sheridans that I am going to test with these pellets, too. Next up, I want to compare a really old Sheridan to the newest one I can find that is in original condition . I expect the newest one I have right now to be around a 1980 . I will try to post the results this afternoon.
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Next up;
1961 Silver Streak, original - 8 pumps
Pellets
Benj./Sher. 14.3 gr. 622fps. = 12.29 ft. lbs. *
JSB Heavy 15.89 " 596 " = 12.54 " "
1978 Blue Streak - 8 pumps
Pellets
Benj./Sher. 14.3 gr. 651 fps. = 13.46 ft. lbs.
JSB Heavy 15.89 " 621 " = 13.61 " "
Accuracy still goes to JSB.
*The '61 is the weakest shooter I have tested, so far. Many people would not be happy with those numbers, but if you think about it, it has really only lost about 5% of it's power since new !
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SUMMARY
This is all the testing of these new pellets I will be doing for right now. The results were pretty close to what I expected with the heavier pellets. You lose a little FPS , to gain some more ft.lbs. of energy. The higher the original rifle's fps was, the increasingly larger the result was in energy. I do not own what some people call a " Steroid" Sheridan , or I would have tested it with the maximum number of pumps. I am sure that would have been even more impressive !
I was very happy that ;
1. The quality of the appearance & overall measurements of the pellets was consistent.
2. AND, I am very glad that the accuracy was right on par with the other JSB's that are a little lighter.
Most all pellet prices have gone up a little in price in the last year , or two. Now, I just hope that the price of these is reasonable & they will be available , soon.
Thanks,
Steve 19Sheridan57
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Great review. I enjoyed following and am impressed but I have found all the JSB pellets that I have tried to be top quality. I only wish I had the funds.
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Great review. I enjoyed following and am impressed but I have found all the JSB pellets that I have tried to be top quality. I only wish I had the funds.
" wish you had the funds to ???"
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UPDATE ;
I was told that the new .20 JSB Heavy's are being distributed to vendors in the U.S., now. I am sure it will take a few days to stock inventory, add to their websites, etc. Those of you who have placed pre-orders should be hearing something soon , or if you want to buy any , you should be able to, soon !
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UPDATE ;
I was told that the new .20 JSB Heavy's are being distributed to vendors in the U.S., now. I am sure it will take a few days to stock inventory, add to their websites, etc. Those of you who have placed pre-orders should be hearing something soon , or if you want to buy any , you should be able to, soon !
Excellente'...thanks for the heads up!
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WHOO-HOO!
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Every time I look on PA, they've extended the estimated in-stock date. Now they say 5/7/19.
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Maybe because of all the pre-orders?? Kinda looks like .20 cal isn't quite so dead after all....lol
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Pyramid has these new JSB Heavy pellets in stock, according to their website !! Here is a 10% off coupon code = PYRAMYD-NRA.
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/jsb-match-diabolo-exact-heavy-20-cal-15-89-grains-domed-500-count?p=1510 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/jsb-match-diabolo-exact-heavy-20-cal-15-89-grains-domed-500-count?p=1510)
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If they weren't so expensive I might buy some. I'll just use my 14.3"s for now. They cost as much as .22lr rounds, I will have to wait till they come down to justify buying them. They sound good though, I'm sure my gas piston Webley .20 will like them.
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Their price is a little high.Many premium pellets are priced close to this. I wasn't aware that .22 rimfires were priced this low. The coupons. buy 3, get 4, can help some. I have many tins of Benjamin .20, too, & Sheridans shoot those very well. I have a Webley VMX .20 that does not shoot Benji's very accurately.
How many fps does your Webley shoot the Benji's ?
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I got mine on the way. Sure, they're priced a little high but only a couple bucks more than the JSB .22s I buy regularly. I don't mind paying a little extra to get the best. Curious to see how these perform in my Sheridan F.
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They are a little expensive, but many pellets are, today. Look at the list of .22 pellets & you will see some over $20 & that is just for 200-250 ! Maybe after some of their investment in this new design is recovered, the prices may go down. There has been a good bit of interest in these.
I have been shooting these quite a bit in my Webley VMX, lately . I had to reset the scope using these pellets. I will be interested to know how they perform with a Sheridan Model F, too. I do not own one of those , so I couldn't do any testing in my review.
Let us know .
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Mine came in from PA. Wonderfully packed safe as usual. Those are some very pretty pellets. I hope they shoot as good as they look. Been waiting a long time for these to show up at my door. Will put them to the test if the wind and rain lays this weekend.
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Mine came in from PA. Wonderfully packed safe as usual. Those are some very pretty pellets. I hope they shoot as good as they look. Been waiting a long time for these to show up at my door. Will put them to the test if the wind and rain lays this weekend.
If you look at the first post in this thread , you will see my initial views. I started the testing of these by visually inspected each pellet in a tin, & I could not find any damaged pellets at all. Then, I measured & weighed the pellets & they were very uniform. All the Sheridans I tested did very well with these pellets, but given how accurate Sheridans are, I was not surprised. My Hatsan made Webley , likes these pellets, too. The difference in weight & fps , made me need to adjust it's scope a little. Now, I would like to see Hatsan & Webley get back together & produce some more VMX's in .20 cal.
I am very pleased with these pellets & believe that most everyone will be, too !
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Personally, I'd like to see Hatsan make .20's using some of their own models. Just my always lame 2 cents here and while they'd never be the same build quality as anything Beeman/Weihrauch, I can think of a couple models of their rifles (the Model 95 and Proxima come to mind) that with a well made .20 caliber barrel and their Quattro trigger could be nice rifles and the VMX is the same rifle as the Edge/Striker/1000 they already build so all they'd have to do is put .20 cal barrels on them.
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That would be great, too ! They could put .20 barrels on the Edge for a cheaper, entry level .20 rifle. Then use the Model 95 Vortex, QE design for a very nice rifle at a reasonable price. A friend has one of those in .22 & it is a sweet shooter !
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I tested some out, and they shoot well in both my Sheridan and modified VMX/Edge vortexes. Nice pellet. I hope the price comes down on them,then I might do the prymyd 3 for 4 deal. Wish I had a chrony for a fps comparison, but they "feel" like they are potent LOL.
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You can usually find a 10% off coupon online, for Pyramid . Then, combine pellets of whatever caliber to come up with the 4 for the price of 3 combo. That helps out quite a bit. PLUS, Pyramid packs their pellets so well that I rarely buy from anyone else.
The more & more you get into shooting, the more a chronograph can be a good investment . I have a lot of Sheridans & sell some from time to time. I won't sell a Sheridan that needs repairs, or is not shooting at LEAST 600fps. There is no way to know this without a chony. I won't ruin my reputation by selling a poor performing rifle, or one that needs repairs.
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If the wind would ever lay I'd like to give them a try, but it has roared since my pellets got here. I am going to shoot them for group out of an excellent SynRod that Motorhead tuned for me. And if they group as I think they are going to, I'm going to take that stellar-prepared .20 barrel out of the SynRod and have it machined to install in my .25 Taipan Standard. Ever since hearing that these pellets would be introduced, pretty much every night since then I have been going to bed wondering, romancing the thought of just how precise these pellets would be at 50 yards out of a custom thick barreled, carbon fiber sleeved .20 Taipan. Specifically, could these .20 pellets through such a gun exceed Taipan's already world-class performance of its CZ-barreled .22's? The thought feeds well upon me. The .20 "side addiction" inside the airgun addiction is indeed a separate problem unto itself.
And these pellets, thankfully, only made it worse...
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Hey JSB...how 'bout helping us stretch the .20 out there? Next time your thoughts turn to the .20 might you consider producing some Redesigned Monsters in .20!
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Ray, because of these new heavies I too have another .20 barrel in the mail headed my way. Plan on making a 30fpe .20 pester!
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You can usually find a 10% off coupon online, for Pyramid . Then, combine pellets of whatever caliber to come up with the 4 for the price of 3 combo. That helps out quite a bit. PLUS, Pyramid packs their pellets so well that I rarely buy from anyone else.
The more & more you get into shooting, the more a chronograph can be a good investment . I have a lot of Sheridans & sell some from time to time. I won't sell a Sheridan that needs repairs, or is not shooting at LEAST 600fps. There is no way to know this without a chony. I won't ruin my reputation by selling a poor performing rifle, or one that needs repairs.
GATEWAY-PYRAMYD will get you 10% off all the time.
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I got mine and have been shooting them in my Sheridans. I am quite pleased. My F model is modded for bulk fill and has a soft hammer spring for an increased shot count. The JSB 13.73 shoot at around 550 fps, the new heavies go around 515. Accuracy is good but, I think they may do a little better at higher velocity in my pumpers. Six pumps in my '67 Streak gives about 550 fps with superb accuracy.
Are these new pellets lubed? They seem slick and I noticed the white foam tin inserts are blackened.
I wouldn't wait for these to go down in price. If anything, they will go up, like everything else.
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Like we have mentioned, but 4 , for the price of 3,, get 10%, & the cost of these pellets is very fair, I believe. I am glad to hear that you guys are fond of these. Post your opinions & testing results on here. All the Sheridan ownerson here need to dust off their rifles & join in.
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I will try some in my steroided Silver Streak and upload the chrony numbers.
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Ray, because of these new heavies I too have another .20 barrel in the mail headed my way. Plan on making a 30fpe .20 pester!
WOW ! 30 ft. lbs. with a .20 will be a " HOSS !"
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Dillon had the first .20 Marauder, and no doubt will have the first 30fpe .20. The pests around him already whisper his name in hushed tones. Dillon please put that barrel on your Flex! I want to be a fly on that wall.
In my perfect world there would be more high-end offerings in .20 by companies like Daystate, FX, Edgun, Taipan, Cricket, etc in their standard lines. Rolling your own is fun, but if these companies would embrace the .20 what other fine ammunition offerings would that produce? Never satisfied. Here we have a wonderful new pellet for the .20, and already I dream of Redesigned Monsters...
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I want to see how well these " hard-hitters " perform, & how accurately they shoot in the high powered .20's . I do not know, but I would think that JSB will want to see the success of this new pellet, before they start on another design. Til then, ENJOY !
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Yeah I'm interested in seeing how they perform. They should perform I'm assuming as well as 15.89gr .22 JSBs. The barrel is a 20" LW barrel that's choked and it's going on a Gen1 Mrod. Don't ask me why but I prefer the feel of the Gen1 to the Gen2. The larger cocking lug I'm assuming just makes it all feel smoother. I liked the accuracy of the 13gr JSBs but we're too light IMO. At least for the kind of pesting I do. Hoping things workout great which I'd be shocked if they didn't!
I know Ray the thought is still there in my mind about the Flex. Not sure if there's an easy way for it but I'm still looking into it! I agree though bring on a 20gr!
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Not a clue how well either would shoot and my .20's are only break barrels so not trying it, but here's your 20+ grain:
https://www.krale.shop/en/airgun-pellets-eun-jin-samyang-5-05-mm-22-9-grain.html (https://www.krale.shop/en/airgun-pellets-eun-jin-samyang-5-05-mm-22-9-grain.html)
https://www.krale.shop/en/airgun-pellets-eun-jin-samyang-5-05-mm-23-7-grain.html (https://www.krale.shop/en/airgun-pellets-eun-jin-samyang-5-05-mm-23-7-grain.html)
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If someone would produce a mold that profiles the redesigned monsters, but in .20 I think I would start casting my own. It the EBR guys can win or place high using Redesigned Monsters in a .22 against .25s and .30s then there is something there that needs to be applied to the .20 as well.
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I just ran a couple of tests with 2 different Sheridans . I picked out these 2 rifles because I felt that their velocities are about average with most other owners of Sheridans. First test was with the standard Benjamin/Sheridan 14.3 pellets .
1966 Blue Streak - 8 pumps
Pellets
Benj./Sher. 14.3 gr. 642 fps. = 13.09 ft. lbs.
JSB Heavy 15.89 " 612 " = 13.22 " "
1959 Silver Streak - 8 pumps
Benj./Sher. 14.3 gr. 656 fps. = 13.67 ft. lbs.
JSB Heavy 15.89 " 628 " = 13.92 " "
My eyesight is not as good as it once was, but the new JSB's are a bit more accurate than the B/S , just like their lighter JSB pellets. Penetration still goes to the B/S .
The only comps I have are my Benji 392P's; FPS=642 FPE=13.1
As far as I am concerned Steve's results are exactly what I was hoping for. VERY close to the Benji 392P's. The only test that remains is accuracy. Looking forward to trying out this new load on my hottest shooting Dan.
Question for the experts; Is there anything that can be done to a Dan that would increase these numbers?
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Jeff, [ Cloud 9 ] said that he was a " steroided " Sheridan & was going to test some of these new pellets in it. It will be interesting to see the results. A few years ago, I owned one Sheridan that had that done to it , & that was the only one. I am guessing that his testing will be close to the results of the Webley VMX, that I tested in this thread.
I encourage all of you who have tried these new pellets to post your results on here. " THEY " are watching this thread.
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I made a comment a few years ago about the accuracy of a Model C & I attributed that to its excellent out of the box trigger & streamline design. I also mentioned where the Benji 392P excelled over the C was in knock-down power. I believe Longhunter coined the phrase “hammer” when describing this model. I think this phrase is spot on. Case in point; I enjoy ditch bank bullfrogging during the off season & hunted with both rifles. If my shots were slightly off (brain shot) with the C the frogs disappeared into the water on reflex. The Benji literally plowed them into the ditch bank. Same can be said for any small game. There’s that dance with the C but not the Benji. I also mentioned if I could change one thing about the C it would be the size load. This new load appears to be the best thing to happen to a stock Vintage pumper in a LONG time.
It appears the new load is right there with the 392P with respect to FPS/FPE, & as stated earlier the only test that remains is accuracy. I plan to run my own chrony tests & test accuracy at 10M & 30M. If the accuracy tests remain the same as the results below with the JSB 13.73 then JSB has knocked it out of the park.
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LOL.
I did a lot of nighttime bullfrog hunting when I was a kid in S.C. , with my original Sheridan. " Shake n' Bake " frog legs are delicious !!! I live in Florida now, so with all the " critters " down here trying to eat me,, I don't walk the banks of lakes , anymore ! I never had a problem with the power of my Sheridan. There are a few things you can do to make a Sheridan a bit more powerful ,,, all the way up to paying someone to heavily modify it . I have never felt that they needed it . That is just my opinion.
The trigger is a great, simple design. The trigger on my '59 is getting mighty worn, too !! Makes me glad it has the hold down thumb safety !! It helps with the accuracy , but I think the biggest contribution to accuracy, goes to Sheridan's founders. They strived at the very beginning to make their rifles very accurate. They would not settle for less ! These pellets seem to be just as accurate as the lighter JSB's , but you will have to test & see. The vision in my right eye is no longer " Sniper " qualified.
Let's see what kind of numbers Jeff reports . Would like to see your chrony numbers with a 392P , as well.
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This guy is trying to cash in...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-JSB-DIABOLO-EXACT-HEAVY-20-CALIBER-5-mm-PELLETS-500-Count-15-89-grains/293044074999?hash=item443ac9b9f7:g:hiMAAOSwVD9crsKb&frcectupt=true (https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-JSB-DIABOLO-EXACT-HEAVY-20-CALIBER-5-mm-PELLETS-500-Count-15-89-grains/293044074999?hash=item443ac9b9f7:g:hiMAAOSwVD9crsKb&frcectupt=true)
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Still about the same as PA if you're just buying one tin.
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Probably right Dave, however, when I buy it will be the 3 get one free + the discount. ;)
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That one on E Bay is a very fair price, in my opinion, since it includes the shipping.
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Are my figures wrong or do 4 tins from Pyramid come out to $16.17 ea shipped with 10% discount & one free tin?
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No, your math is correct.
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Sure sounds a lot better than the full price !
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I want to try a tin in my 'Dans before I commit to buying four tins.
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I want to try a tin in my 'Dans before I commit to buying four tins.
I doubt you'll have trouble selling them if you get 4 and they don't shoot they way you want them to :)
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I can hardly wait to try these in my new .20 build. It isn't you typical .20.
Co2 with a Boss RP valve, huge T.P. and a flow through bolt. (Still waiting on that)
She'll be a bit of a gas hog but hoping to get some serious FPE out of these new heavies.
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Here are my chrony numbers on my 1963 Steroided Silver Streak.
JSB Diablo Exact 13.73gr - 8 pumps = 657 fps Avg, 5 fps ES, 3.54 SD, 13.14 ft/lbs
10 pumps = 700 fps Avg, 5 fps ES, 3.54 SD, 14.92 ft/lbs
14 pumps = 760 fps Avg, 3 fps ES, 2.12 SD, 17.59 ft/lbs
JSB Diablo Heavy 15.89gr - 8 pumps = 601 fps Avg, 11 fps ES, 5.51 SD, 12.86 ft/lbs
10 pumps = 646 fps Avg, 12 fps ES, 8.49 SD, 14.73 ft/lbs
14 pumps = 719 fps Avg, 12 fps ES, 8.49 SD, 18.25 ft/lbs
It seems that my rifle is down a little from 19Sheridan57's Silver Streak @ 8 pumps, but I can go to 14 pumps where it really packs a whollop (over 18 ft/lbs!) I have noticed with these new JSB Diablo Heavy 15.89gr pellets that my Extreme Spread and SD is increased over the JSB Diablo Exacts. Perhaps that is a tighter fit and difference in the skirts. I noticed the same behavior in my Sheridan Supergrade using the JSB Diablo Heavy 15.89gr pellets. That rifle is on par with 19Sheridan57's Supergrade. Unexplained. I didn't have time to do any accuracy testing yet.
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Got my tin of Heavies today. I have tomorrow off & the weather is supposed to be clear & sunny with a light winds. Perfect for accuracy & chrony testing. Stay tuned.
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Here are my chrony numbers on my 1963 Steroided Silver Streak.
JSB Diablo Exact 13.73gr - 8 pumps = 657 fps Avg, 5 fps ES, 3.54 SD, 13.14 ft/lbs
10 pumps = 700 fps Avg, 5 fps ES, 3.54 SD, 14.92 ft/lbs
14 pumps = 760 fps Avg, 3 fps ES, 2.12 SD, 17.59 ft/lbs
JSB Diablo Heavy 15.89gr - 8 pumps = 601 fps Avg, 11 fps ES, 5.51 SD, 12.86 ft/lbs
10 pumps = 646 fps Avg, 12 fps ES, 8.49 SD, 14.73 ft/lbs
14 pumps = 719 fps Avg, 12 fps ES, 8.49 SD, 18.25 ft/lbs
I thought your numbers for 8 pumps would have been higher than mine, too !! Maybe it needs a couple drops of oil ? BUT, at 14 pumps & over 18 ft. lbs., it is powerful !
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It is a actually well lubed with new seals so I’m not sure.
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Here are my chrony numbers for my two Sheridans. A stock '79 Silver Streak & '85 Steroided Blue Streak. I formatted my numbers like 19Sheridan57's for simplicity sake.
Temp: 76°. Winds: NNE @ 2mph. Chrony distance from muzzle: 6ft. Five pellets per set.
'79 Silver Streak
JSB Diablo Exact 13.73g - 8 pumps = 653.9 fps Avg, 18.51 ES, 7.21 SD, 13.04 FPE
10 pumps = 707.4 fps Avg, 38.72 ES, 16.79 SD, 15.25 FPE
14 pumps = 772.0 fps Avg, 42.11 ES, 17.29 SD, 18.17 FPE
JSB Diablo Heavy 15.89g - 8 pumps = 626.0 fps Avg, 22.37 ES, 9.11 SD, 13.82 FPE
10 pumps = 679.0 fps Avg, 18.81 ES, 8.18 SD, 16.26 FPE
14 pumps = 740.6 fps Avg, 20.54 ES, 8.18 SD, 19.35 FPE
After the 15.89g set with 14 pumps set, I loaded a pellet. The residual air gave me 629.2 fps = 13.97 FPE! That's quite a bit of residual air.
I also tried a mere 6 pumps, which is the norm. 563.4 fps = 11.2 FPE
'85 Steroided Blue Streak
13.73g - 8 pumps = 693.0 fps Avg, 15.79 ES, 6.55 ES, 14.64 FPE
10 pumps = 749.5 fps Avg, 8.48 ES, 6.55 SD, 16.85 FPE
14 pumps = 810.6 fps Avg, 10.30 ES, 3.87 SD, 20.03 FPE
15.89g - 8 pumps = 637.4 fps Avg, 27.4 ES, 10.09 SD, 14.33 FPE
10 pumps = 659.1 fps Avg, 86.0 ES, 26.21 SD, 15.32 FPE
14 pumps = 792.2 fps Avg, 10.0 ES, 4.58 SD, 22.14 FPE
After the 15.89g set of 14 pumps, there was no residual air.
6 pumps with 15.89g, 611.7 fps = 13.2 FPE
6 pumps with 13.73g, 614.1 fps = 11.5 FPE
After almost 700 pumps, it's cocktail time! 🍸
As you can see the new JSB has a higher waist & longer skirt. Also, but not really visible in pic, the 13.73g has a grayer more graphite like color. Where the new 15.89g Heavy has a shinier, oily finish.
JSB 13.73g L & 15.89g R.
(http://i65.tinypic.com/348m695.jpg)
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Dave,
You were pumping your NON-steroided Streak up to 14 pumps ??
WOW , 790 fps & over 22 ft. lbs. is VERY impressive with the other Sheridan & heavier pellets ! That you for your post !
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Excellent review Dave & very nice numbers on the '79.
Thanks for taking the time to do that. Thanks to all you guys!
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I recently got in an" ugly "Streak that I will be testing. I usually won't buy anything like this, but it was cheap enough, && it works.How good, I don't know. I am unsure if I will restore it or use it as parts. I always chrony every rifle to see if it needs repairs , so I might as well run this one over the chrony & post the test results. I am also picking up a couple of very nice Silver Streaks, & will be checking those out. Results will be posted, later.
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Dave,
You were pumping your NON-steroided Streak up to 14 pumps ??
WOW , 790 fps & over 22 ft. lbs. is VERY impressive with the other Sheridan & heavier pellets ! That you for your post !
I really didn't like pushing the Silver Streak that hard. It had a lot residual air afterward too.
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I never go over the recommended 8 pumps.
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Likewise. Usually only 6 pumps as a rule. That was a one & done thing. Too hard on the rifle. :(
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Very nice guys! Mine are finally going to be delivered today. Spent the night last night putting my .20 Mrod together. Not sure when I'll have time for chrony and accuracy but hoping by tomorrow. We got lots of wind in the forecast starting on Friday so not much time to get my tune done ::)
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My last post for awhile but Trenier Outdoor now has these in stock, $14.79 a tin:
https://www.trenieroutdoors.com/jsb-exact-heavy-20-cal-pellets-15-89-grains-domed/ (https://www.trenieroutdoors.com/jsb-exact-heavy-20-cal-pellets-15-89-grains-domed/)
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Got my heavies yesterday and they performed amazing at 55yds shooting at 900fps. Very happy with them
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Got my heavies yesterday and they performed amazing at 55yds shooting at 900fps. Very happy with them
WOW ! WINNER - WINNER-CHICKEN DINNER !!
15.89. @ 900fps. = 29Ft.Lbs. KERWHOP !!
Correction= 29 Ft. Lbs.
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As promised, I took " UGLY " out to test today. I could tell by the first pump that it wasn't all that bad, & I had not even oiled it, yet. Notice the fancy customized bolt . Sorry for the poor pix.
8 pumps
JSB Diabolo Exact 13.73 - 643fps
Benj/Sher 14.3 - 630
JSB Heavy 15.89 - 612
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Where can I get a custom bolt handle like that? ;)
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I love reading about peoples
chrony numbers
With what ever air gun they are using
BUT-
I hate that people seem to never sate-
At what elevation,
Some are great enough to list Temp, humidity Ect., Ect.
Just for some reason the ELEVATION just seems to be missed ???
I know it isn't that big a deal,
It is that I live at just under 5,000'
and do some shooting at over 6,000'
once in awhile I even get up to some VERY HIGH
places and wonder about the power difference ?
And I also wonder about what shooting at near sea level would be like,
I did shoot my P-17 last year at about 508' ,
but was trying very hard to not hit what I was trying to scare off-
A SKUNK family
that figured out that my girlfriend was leaving her,
Anchovies out for an easy meal for them.
Lucky for us that I was good/bad enough to miss.
Hitting one would have ruined the great spot we had for camping/fishing.
LOL !
just
say'n
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My numbers were recorded at 11ft above sea level.
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I’m slightly higher at 630 feet elevation
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Where can I get a custom bolt handle like that? ;)
" ACE is the place !"
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The first Sheridan I found at a gun show had this bolt in it.
(https://i.imgur.com/VmuaBNC.jpg)
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Wow ! Ace must have different styles, too.
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That took some ingenuity!
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The first Sheridan I found at a gun show had this bolt in it.
(https://i.imgur.com/VmuaBNC.jpg)
An Allen bolt! That makes sense. ;)
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Has anyone else tried these new .20 pellets ?
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My last post for awhile but Trenier Outdoor now has these in stock, $14.79 a tin:
https://www.trenieroutdoors.com/jsb-exact-heavy-20-cal-pellets-15-89-grains-domed/ (https://www.trenieroutdoors.com/jsb-exact-heavy-20-cal-pellets-15-89-grains-domed/)
That is the BEST price I have seen for these pellets !! Thanks for the link .
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^^^R U sure? Did the numbers. To NM its $22.69/tin. Maybe for one tin but not for the buy 3 get one free which comes to just over $16/tin.
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Not the best deal if buying just one tin. Sign up on their website for coupon codes, & buy 4, or so, if you want to.
Or;
Pyramid is always a good place to shop.
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^^^R U sure? Did the numbers. To NM its $22.69/tin. Maybe for one tin but not for the buy 3 get one free which comes to just over $16/tin.
I bought 5 from Trenier. Yes I did the math, plus having them side by side by side in cart at both Trenier and PA and PA for those same 5 tins was almost $93, almost $10 more than Trenier even AFTER everyone's precious Buy 3, Get the 4th Free AND the GTA 10% discount. I've posted about crazy price differences for .20 cal pellets before when I found PA charges $18.99 a tin for the JSB 13.73gr yet those same pellets at AoA are only $14.37 and they have a Buy 4, Get the 5th free deal. I saved a bundle on those and PA's insanely priced H&N FTT's which PA charges $19.99 a tin for compared to the $11.50 a tin AoA charges and got ignored then too. End of rant....
I got them because I really wanted to try them in my Beeman R9. YES, I have some higher end rifles other than the cheap Webley Valumax .20's all the snobs want to gripe about not being "real" .20's. YES, they will shoot and very bloody well in that Beeman R9 for all the naysayers that want to say break barrel .20's don't have the power to shoot them. Really????????????
My 10 shot string, with that "underpowered, won't be able to shoot them" Beeman R9 .20:
631, 628, 639, 624, 628, 628, 633, 636, 635, 635
Average: 631
ES: 15
SD: 4
FPE: 14.04
Nice numbers in my book and plenty for pest whacking with a break barrel.
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I was hoping that PA would have these for under $20/tin, but that is not the case. Maybe they will lower the price some down the road. They are way too high on some pellets, like the H & N's you mention.
Those numbers are good to me , Steve. 14 FPE is plenty enough for a .20 air rifle. I always hunted squirrels & other small game with 5 pumps in my Sheridan, and it was powerful enough to put meat on the table many, many times. These heavier pellets shoot at a lower fps in my VMX, which makes it easier to shoot accurately.
Thanks for your post !
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^^^R U sure? Did the numbers. To NM its $22.69/tin. Maybe for one tin but not for the buy 3 get one free which comes to just over $16/tin.
I bought 5 from Trenier. Yes I did the math, plus having them side by side by side in cart at both Trenier and PA and PA for those same 5 tins was almost $93, almost $10 more than Trenier even AFTER everyone's precious Buy 3, Get the 4th Free AND the GTA 10% discount. I've posted about crazy price differences for .20 cal pellets before when I found PA charges $18.99 a tin for the JSB 13.73gr yet those same pellets at AoA are only $14.37 and they have a Buy 4, Get the 5th free deal. I saved a bundle on those and PA's insanely priced H&N FTT's which PA charges $19.99 a tin for compared to the $11.50 a tin AoA charges and got ignored then too. End of rant....
I got them because I really wanted to try them in my Beeman R9. YES, I have some higher end rifles other than the cheap Webley Valumax .20's all the snobs want to gripe about not being "real" .20's. YES, they will shoot and very bloody well in that Beeman R9 for all the naysayers that want to say break barrel .20's don't have the power to shoot them. Really????????????
My 10 shot string, with that "underpowered, won't be able to shoot them" Beeman R9 .20:
631, 628, 639, 624, 628, 628, 633, 636, 635, 635
Average: 631
ES: 15
SD: 4
FPE: 14.04
Nice numbers in my book and plenty for pest whacking with a break barrel.
Ok
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I was hoping that PA would have these for under $20/tin, but that is not the case. Maybe they will lower the price some down the road. They are way too high on some pellets, like the H & N's you mention.
Those numbers are good to me , Steve. 14 FPE is plenty enough for a .20 air rifle. I always hunted squirrels & other small game with 5 pumps in my Sheridan, and it was powerful enough to put meat on the table many, many times. These heavier pellets shoot at a lower fps in my VMX, which makes it easier to shoot accurately.
Thanks for your post !
You ever decide to part with that VMX, shoot me a pm. One of these days I may just shoot you one on a Silver Streak..don't own a pumper and the only one I might consider buying.
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Yeah I'm kinda done with PA on pellets now. Now that sales tax is a thing this year that adds as much as a 10% discount would take away. Trenier theres no sales tax so that counts alot.
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Death & taxes. ;)
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As promised, I took " UGLY " out to test today. I could tell by the first pump that it wasn't all that bad, & I had not even oiled it, yet. Notice the fancy customized bolt . Sorry for the poor pix.
8 pumps
JSB Diabolo Exact 13.73 - 643fps
Benj/Sher 14.3 - 630
JSB Heavy 15.89 - 612
I added a couple drops of oil to the " UGLY Rifle" & it helped. I am VERY pleased with these results.
Benj/Sher 14.3 = 651
JSP Heavy 15.89 = 630
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I was hoping that PA would have these for under $20/tin, but that is not the case. Maybe they will lower the price some down the road. They are way too high on some pellets, like the H & N's you mention.
Those numbers are good to me , Steve. 14 FPE is plenty enough for a .20 air rifle. I always hunted squirrels & other small game with 5 pumps in my Sheridan, and it was powerful enough to put meat on the table many, many times. These heavier pellets shoot at a lower fps in my VMX, which makes it easier to shoot accurately.
Thanks for your post !
You ever decide to part with that VMX, shoot me a pm. One of these days I may just shoot you one on a Silver Streak..don't own a pumper and the only one I might consider buying.
I will keep the VMX for now. I always wanted a .20 , other than Sheridans, to see how they would do. I have a LOT of Sheridans, AND a LOT of .20 pellets to feed them ! The VMX really likes these new pellets !
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I was hoping that PA would have these for under $20/tin, but that is not the case. Maybe they will lower the price some down the road. They are way too high on some pellets, like the H & N's you mention.
Those numbers are good to me , Steve. 14 FPE is plenty enough for a .20 air rifle. I always hunted squirrels & other small game with 5 pumps in my Sheridan, and it was powerful enough to put meat on the table many, many times. These heavier pellets shoot at a lower fps in my VMX, which makes it easier to shoot accurately.
Thanks for your post !
You ever decide to part with that VMX, shoot me a pm. One of these days I may just shoot you one on a Silver Streak..don't own a pumper and the only one I might consider buying.
I will keep the VMX for now. I always wanted a .20 , other than Sheridans, to see how they would do. I have a LOT of Sheridans, AND a LOT of .20 pellets to feed them ! The VMX really likes these new pellets !
No worries, I already have 3 between bone stock, fully tuned and a 3rd I converted to Vortex gas ram. I may still pm you some day about a decent Silver Streak though...lol
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I always have a selection of Silver Streaks .
Every once in awhile I see a VMX in .20 come up for sale, but not very often. I saw a new one advertised about a month ago for $ 150.
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Been helping the father with spring clean up and yard stuff but I did manage to get my own tuned Webley VMX .20 out and shoot a couple strings. The PDF's from the Pro Chrono are below if you want to see the full details (yes, I have the blue tooth connector) but for the bare basics:
First string: 654 average, ES 26, SD 8, 15.1 fpe
Second string: 644 average, ES 22, SD 7, 14.64 fpe
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I'll bet it is a smooth shooter. 15 fpe is plenty of energy for most all air rifle tasks.
How are you liking the new pellets ?
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Only complaint I have is not getting to shoot more with them but I'm working on it :)
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I have some of these new JSB pellets & my VMX near the back door, in case another coyote enters the pasture behind me. I killed one with it last year. There are young calves in the pasture that they come after.
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I finally had a chance to reset the scope on My Webley VMX this morning. I could tell that it was a little off when shooting these heavier JSB pellets, but didn't know how much . It only needed a little change in elevation. I had been shooting the standard weight JSB's , which I have always been happy with. The new Heavy's were hitting about an inch low, which I expected with the added weight . Windage was still fine , so I was finished in a short time . This rifle really shoots these pellets with " authority !"
While I was out there, I shot a few of these pellets through " UGLY , " the old Sheridan I picked up in a trade a few weeks ago. It has iron sights that are glued on , & the point of impact was almost exactly like the VMX. I adjusted the elevation enough to make the pellet hit an inch higher, & windage to move it over about 1/4." That is about as good as my tired eyes will do with open sights.
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Meanwhile, back at the ranch...
With Pyramid's Cake-20 discount and buy three get 4 the 15.89 JSB .20's come out to $12.60 a tin. 2.5 cents a pellet.
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Now that IS a very good price. THANKS for posting the info !
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Mine are supposed to arrive today. Finally!
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Mine are supposed to arrive today. Finally!
GREAT ! Let us know how you like these pellets.
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Got sunshine finally so out with the new to me 73 Silver Streak. All shots were taken at 8 pumps.
635, 641, 640, 636, 636, 641, 634, 637, 633, 635
Average 636, ES 8, SD 2, FPE 14.14
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Good enough. It might creep up a little more after some use.
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Mine are supposed to arrive today. Finally!
GREAT ! Let us know how you like these pellets.
I must be brain dead. I already have the .20 JSB Heavies. I was thinking of the Hades. My mind is going to Hades in a hand basket. :o
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I thought you already had some.
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Yeah yeah, I do. I did that whole comparison thing between the Heavies & the 13.73g with my Silver Streak & Blue streak.
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We all have times like that. It just happens more often as we get older.
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Have any shooters tested these new pellets at longer distances ? I would like to hear some results of shooting out past 40 yards, etc. This will be with 8 pumps if shooting a Sheridan. Please post your results.
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I managed between rain breaks to run these through the VMX .20 I gas rammed and between surprise at the results and a rifle I now have to fix, I'll definitely be running them again when I have more time and get the rifle fixed.
In defense of the scope set up, my VMX is an older one and unlike the newer style Hatsan built rifles, only has a flat plate and 2 screw holes depending where you want to put it, for the single screw that holds the plate on. In the pic below, the flat stop plate on the left is what it came with and just a guess but why the new ones, which is the stop plate on the right, have 2 screws and the raised lip vs the flat plate with one screw. I'm guessing they had some irate customers when that single screw broke off after the scope ring or in this case, my UTG offset mount, slid back and up onto the scope stop plate and broke it off. It's something I should have fixed when I built the rifle and didn't but a lesson learned. I can get the broken screw out easy enough and I'll just have to tap a new hole to use a newer style plate and 2 screws with a set of Hawke Reach Forward rings like the rest of my rifles have.
As for the results: Average was 760, High 819, Low 708, ES 111, SD 35, FPE 20.38. I'll definitely be doing this again and see what happens. Gotta get the scope issue fixed first but the 20+ FPE part is likely why the failed scope stop.
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Sorry that happened. I used to own a Crosman that was a hard hitting, harsh rifle to shoot. I never put a scope on it because I was afraid it would flip off & hit me in the head !
I am glad you were able to test the new pellets . An average of 760 fps with over 20 lbs of energy is mighty powerful with the JSB Heavy pellets !
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Steve, couldn't find the original post by you so here are my results as promised...
Disclaimer: apparently being out of shooting for a long time has me rusty and I'm a terrible shot!
Spoiler alert: Cutting to the chase the new JSB .20 Exact Heavy pellet is a winner!
Friday I received the R1 .20 I bought. It is a late model and if anybody can tell me when SN 1723229 was made I'd appreciate it. I also received some test pellets from Steve. So here is my test...
Wind was 10-13 mph but the rains subsided and it was actually sunny here in SE Michigan! Set up bench and used a front bag to shoot. I am not sure how the R1 likes to be shot but i just used a light hold. I am newly out of shooting retirement so rusty and not sure the springer would be a fair representation of the pellet performance so I broke out my AZ Rapid. I figure there have been other tests using pumpers so I didn't attempt with open sight Dans.
I started out at 20 yards and it was immediately evident the new JSB Heavy is a good pellet. I then stretched out to 35 yards and realized how bad the groups were. I even crumpled the target and was going to pass on 35 yard test. But as I said, I thought I'd bring out the Rapid. I was told by several people that the R1 liked the H&N FTT but as you can see they are not very good in the R1. They fit so loose they dropped into the barrel. What wasn't a surprise is how bad the Benjamins shoot. There's a huge seam at the head of the pellet. Unfortunately, I forgot to shoot them from the Rapid but I can guess they wouldn't outperform either of the JSB pellets or the Crosman Premier.
Regarding the 35 yard test, I was really surprised how well the JSB Heavy grouped with the Rapid. AZ tuned these based on the Crosman Premiers but suppose that was because neither of the JSBs existed. The JSB Heavy definitively grouped better than CP and the JSB Exacts were nearly as good. Guess I didn't need to stock up on the 12,000+ pellets when they were discontinued!
The odd thing is that the JSB Heavy had relatively high variability of velocity as shown in the chart. I didn't weigh any of the pellets although maybe I will weigh a sample of ten and see. But regardless of consistency in velocity you can't argue with results on target.
Anyway, sorry for the rambling post but even with my poor shooting you can see the new JSB Exact Heavy is an excellent pellet in higher powered springers and PCP.
Now if you excuse me I have a pellet order to place...
1ST PIC IS VELOCITY STATS
2ND PIC IS R1 AT 20 YARDS
3RD PIC IS R1 AT 35 YARDS (NEED PRACTICE!)
4TH PIC IS AZ TUNED RAPID AT 35 YARDS
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The Weihrauch database says your R1 SN 1723229 was probably manufactured 2006 - 2008
https://www.weihrauch-database.eu/dywp# (https://www.weihrauch-database.eu/dywp#)
Your R1 shoots the heavier pellets a lot better than mine.
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The Weihrauch database says your R1 SN 1723229 was probably manufactured 2006 - 2008
https://www.weihrauch-database.eu/dywp# (https://www.weihrauch-database.eu/dywp#)
Your R1 shoots the heavier pellets a lot better than mine.
The guy I bought it from thought it may have a Venom Lazaglide tune but had no documentation. Is there a way to tell if this is Lazaglided? I never shot an R1 before so when I fired the first shots I didn't think much of it. I had all this anticipation about how beastly it would be but it was smooth. I still don't think it is a powerhouse per se on the order of a Patriot or even RWS 350 but after it shot very tight group at 20 yards I was surprised.
I plan on getting a lot of practice in on it and will likely upgrade the scope from the cheap Centerpoint 4-16 that I have on it now. I just happened to have two of those still sitting in boxes. I have a Nikko that might go on it or buy something worthy of the R1.
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Sorry, I do not know how to tell if the R1 has been modified with the Venom Lazaglide. One of the more knowledgeable members may know more about it.
When the R1 first came out, it was considered a magnum, now I guess you could say it is mid-sized.
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Using the JSB pellets in my Beeman R1, the chrono results were not the best - so more testing.
I was at first using my Beeman pellseat rounded end to round out the pellet skirt after inserting pellet.
So I tried rounding skirt and then using reverse end to deep set pellet.
Better chrono and FPE.
JSB 13.73g 624 FPS & 11.87 FPE - Deep Seating 702 FPS & 15.04 FPE
JSB 15.89g 563 FPS & 11.19 FPE - Deep Seating 659 FPS & 14.43 FPE
The JSB pellets are better than I first thought.
I still have many different original Beeman pellets to compare to, they average 16 FPE.
All pellets are accurate.
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My Hatsan VMX .20 is now shooting nothing but the JSB Heavies. I am very pleased with them & glad they are made.
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Robert, that deep seating makes a significant difference.
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I need to try that with my VMX. I'll report back with the results.
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I just realized that I had forgotten to post the FPS results of manually seating each one of these pellets in my VMX . I have seated these using my fingers & by using a AA battery, which works very well. I did not find any real change in the speed of shooting the pellets by seating them using one method, or the other. Both turned out speeds of 708-715. These JSB Heavy's are all I am currently using in the VMX. The rifle shoots all JSB's just fine, but the heavier pellet slows it down a little & makes it easier for me to shoot more accurately. I have a lot of Sheridans, so I use whatever I grab first, most of the time.