GTA

Airguns by Make and Model => Artemis/SPA Airguns => Topic started by: Atom on March 04, 2019, 10:14:23 AM

Title: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: Atom on March 04, 2019, 10:14:23 AM
Additional plenum for more power...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn0N6LuDmIo&t=639s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn0N6LuDmIo&t=639s)
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: mackeral5 on March 04, 2019, 10:42:15 AM
That is the exact type of plenum extension we need for P15's. 

So far I've yet to find a source that isn't cost-prohibitive.....
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: CraigH on March 04, 2019, 10:58:30 AM
Very informative.   I had not previously known the construction of the SPA rifle.    Very nice design.
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: KnifeMaker on March 04, 2019, 11:06:00 AM
For such a low cost gun, they sure went at the hard/expensive way. GRRRR!!!
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: Wayne52 on March 04, 2019, 11:09:14 AM
I don't like the idea of having no barrel band on mine though, I'm glad that I've got the .22 because the plenum that comes stock is very sufficient for the .22
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: Mike pr on March 04, 2019, 01:35:35 PM
I put inside the cylinder of my P15 extra 10cc plenun, with threads at the valve side only and at the reg side seal only with oring, its easiest to take it of because it seperates
First result, same HST, same reg pressure, fps from 880 goes to 930 fps
I prefair to have constant shots out of reg to put the reg at 110 bar
Now from 230-95 bar i have 85 shots at 26.5 fpe with 12 fps spread
Also i measured the high pressure volume and it is 205 cc (factory was 235cc)
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: Atom on March 04, 2019, 01:54:53 PM
I don't like the idea of having no barrel band on mine though, I'm glad that I've got the .22 because the plenum that comes stock is very sufficient for the .22
Factory plenum is about 3 cc, this plenum is 33cc, factory regulator is set at 155 bar  ::) ...
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: mackeral5 on March 04, 2019, 02:20:46 PM
I don't like the idea of having no barrel band on mine though, I'm glad that I've got the .22 because the plenum that comes stock is very sufficient for the .22
Factory plenum is about 3 cc, this plenum is 33cc, factory regulator is set at 155 bar  ::) ...

How can I order one??
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: MB on March 04, 2019, 07:46:19 PM
I don't like the idea of having no barrel band on mine though, I'm glad that I've got the .22 because the plenum that comes stock is very sufficient for the .22
Factory plenum is about 3 cc, this plenum is 33cc, factory regulator is set at 155 bar  ::) ...

How can I order one??

Mike I have found the dealer in Russia for Artemis and have emailed, will let you know what response I get...
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: mackeral5 on March 04, 2019, 08:07:38 PM
I don't like the idea of having no barrel band on mine though, I'm glad that I've got the .22 because the plenum that comes stock is very sufficient for the .22
Factory plenum is about 3 cc, this plenum is 33cc, factory regulator is set at 155 bar  ::) ...

How can I order one??

Mike I have found the dealer in Russia for Artemis and have emailed, will let you know what response I get...

Cool.  That would be the holy grail p15 mod.
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: MB on March 04, 2019, 09:00:00 PM
yup...
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: Atom on March 05, 2019, 02:24:27 AM
It's expensive buy from Russia (85 eur ),  should require from SPA factory that produce this parts.
Call  Mrodair  8)
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: miksatx on March 05, 2019, 08:28:06 AM
I just measured the cc on my .22 Airmax Dominator and I get 10cc just like the p-15. In the pic the plenum block filled to the top with 12cc syringe with 2cc left.
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: mackeral5 on March 05, 2019, 08:48:35 AM
It's expensive buy from Russia (85 eur ),  should require from SPA factory that produce this parts.
Call  Mrodair  8)

I would GLADLY pay $85 Euro if it would fit the P15.  If not, someone "over there" could start making them for the P15.
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: Mike pr on March 05, 2019, 09:19:54 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/bB04VJV.jpg)][url=https://imgur.com/bB04VJV](http://i.imgur.com/bB04VJV.jpg) (http://[url=https://imgur.com/bB04VJV)[/url]
I made this 10cc extra
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: mackeral5 on March 05, 2019, 09:26:52 AM
I just measured the cc on my .22 Airmax Dominator and I get 10cc just like the p-15. In the pic the plenum block filled to the top with 12cc syringe with 2cc left.

I figured the 3cc was a little off. 

Do the P15 and the M16/Dominator have the same threads in the tube? 
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: Atom on March 05, 2019, 09:28:21 AM
I just measured the cc on my .22 Airmax Dominator and I get 10cc just like the p-15. In the pic the plenum block filled to the top with 12cc syringe with 2cc left.
Did you compute space of regulator?
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: mackeral5 on March 05, 2019, 09:31:10 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/bB04VJV.jpg)][url=https://imgur.com/bB04VJV](http://i.imgur.com/bB04VJV.jpg) (http://[url=https://imgur.com/bB04VJV)[/url]
I made this 10cc extra

Very cool.  I have one similar to that but it is 15cc-  yielding a total plenum space of 25cc.  Once installed it takes the total air storage (high pressure + plenum) to a MEASURED 220cc vs a MEASURED 230cc in OEM form.  SPA claims of 265cc are a bit inflated, lol. 

The design posted in this thread is what I want, it increases air storage while adding additional plenum.  I don't mind the extra overall length. 

Hopefully this thread will help prompt SOMEONE to make one for the P15.
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: miksatx on March 05, 2019, 10:03:11 AM
I just measured the cc on my .22 Airmax Dominator and I get 10cc just like the p-15. In the pic the plenum block filled to the top with 12cc syringe with 2cc left.
Did you compute space of regulator?
No I put a piece of scotch tape over the regulator hole on the bottom of the regulator. The screwed the reg into the plenum blocked and filled from there to the top. Didn't add the volume of the area where the spring is seated either
From what I've read about plenum space. Is the area behind the regulator that is sealed off? Please if this is wrong someone correct me. The onboard plenum space on the Dominator is split up in 3 pieces I took my measurement from the combined two of the pieces that make up the biggest area of the plenum and screwing the reg on the two.
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: miksatx on March 05, 2019, 12:02:31 PM
Ok checking the spring and valve area with the other side of the valve block installed add another 4cc.
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: miksatx on March 05, 2019, 02:37:23 PM
I just measured the cc on my .22 Airmax Dominator and I get 10cc just like the p-15. In the pic the plenum block filled to the top with 12cc syringe with 2cc left.

I figured the 3cc was a little off. 

Do the P15 and the M16/Dominator have the same threads in the tube?
Sorry I missed this post mike
2mm difference in tube sizes in the dom and p15.
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: MB on March 05, 2019, 10:01:40 PM
I just measured the cc on my .22 Airmax Dominator and I get 10cc just like the p-15. In the pic the plenum block filled to the top with 12cc syringe with 2cc left.

I figured the 3cc was a little off. 

Do the P15 and the M16/Dominator have the same threads in the tube?

Yes good question, I have made contact Mike, will let you know if it does and what price, it was listed at 3000 Russian Roubles based on current exchange that should be around US$45 , will let you know as soon as I do...
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: mackeral5 on March 05, 2019, 11:23:57 PM
I just measured the cc on my .22 Airmax Dominator and I get 10cc just like the p-15. In the pic the plenum block filled to the top with 12cc syringe with 2cc left.

I figured the 3cc was a little off. 

Do the P15 and the M16/Dominator have the same threads in the tube?

Yes good question, I have made contact Mike, will let you know if it does and what price, it was listed at 3000 Russian Roubles based on current exchange that should be around US$45 , will let you know as soon as I do...

Sounds great.  Thank you.
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: MB on March 06, 2019, 10:37:25 PM
Mike was in communication Huub at Huma air, M16 and P15 different reg size and airtube diameter, have asked these guys if they could make for a P15...
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: mackeral5 on March 06, 2019, 11:34:49 PM
Fingers crossed ...
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: Atom on March 07, 2019, 12:31:33 PM
Here should make custom parts  8)


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Customized-Custom-Stainless-Steel-Cnc-Machining-Stainless-brass-Aluminium-Parts-Fabrication/32976451161.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.54.4449303b6bs73F&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_10_10065_10068_319_10059_10884_317_10887_10696_321_322_10084_453_10083_454_10103_10618_10307_537_536_10902,searchweb201603_56,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=3a157d05-4f0d-4378-8c59-ea8d22d9f2c3-8&algo_pvid=3a157d05-4f0d-4378-8c59-ea8d22d9f2c3 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Customized-Custom-Stainless-Steel-Cnc-Machining-Stainless-brass-Aluminium-Parts-Fabrication/32976451161.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.54.4449303b6bs73F&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_10_10065_10068_319_10059_10884_317_10887_10696_321_322_10084_453_10083_454_10103_10618_10307_537_536_10902,searchweb201603_56,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=3a157d05-4f0d-4378-8c59-ea8d22d9f2c3-8&algo_pvid=3a157d05-4f0d-4378-8c59-ea8d22d9f2c3)
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: Pelletjunkie on March 11, 2019, 11:17:09 AM
Mike D, empty your mailbox, it’s full and I can’t send you a pm.
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: mackeral5 on March 11, 2019, 11:56:33 AM
Mike D, empty your mailbox, it’s full and I can’t send you a pm.

Cleaned it out, please resend.  Thank you
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: Atom on March 29, 2019, 10:41:43 PM
A plenum arrived they are now testing
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: smythsg on March 29, 2019, 11:54:21 PM
Watching with interest
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: Atom on March 31, 2019, 02:06:38 AM
By adding plenum get it is about 10 m / s (33fps) on the M16 6.35 mm (0.25) before 255 m/s after 265 m/s
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: Atom on March 31, 2019, 02:17:32 AM
After this drilled a enter valve at 7 mm exit valve 6 mm transfer port 6 mm and  barrel port 5mm made oblong hole.The measurements continue...
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: Atom on March 31, 2019, 02:28:09 AM
When drilled the hole on valve and transfer port o-ring  started to break in to pransfer port  when pressure began to fill.
So you need to make a shim  12 mm OD 9 mm ID and 0.5 mm thick...
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: Wayne52 on March 31, 2019, 06:09:31 AM
I remember when a member in Texas built three bottle versions of these SPAM16's with parts he ordered direct from SPA soon after the M16 hit the market, he used Lothar Walther poly barrels on all three of them because you can't order barrels from China.  The only one of the three that he didn't further pursue power wise was the .25 because of the fact the plenum was way too small.
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: Atom on April 01, 2019, 06:01:45 PM
With this change it gets 294m/s (965 fps) JSB King = 71J (53fpe) and 263m/s JSB King Heavy =76J(56.5fpe) !  8)

Still need to work heavier hammer and harder spring...
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: mackeral5 on April 01, 2019, 10:43:01 PM
With this change it gets 294m/s (965 fps) JSB King = 71J (53fpe) and 263m/s JSB King Heavy =76J(56.5fpe) !  8)

Still need to work heavier hammer and harder spring...


Take a look at going to a harder poppet material, such as peek, and reducing the poppet diameter as small as possible.  Once this is done the OEM hammer and spring should be good for getting into the mid 60fpe range. 
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: Atom on April 02, 2019, 01:18:11 AM
With this change it gets 294m/s (965 fps) JSB King = 71J (53fpe) and 263m/s JSB King Heavy =76J(56.5fpe) !  8)

Still need to work heavier hammer and harder spring...


Take a look at going to a harder poppet material, such as peek, and reducing the poppet diameter as small as possible.  Once this is done the OEM hammer and spring should be good for getting into the mid 60fpe range.
Sincerely I did not understand yours suggestion ,can you explain on the photo?
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: mackeral5 on April 02, 2019, 07:05:43 AM
With this change it gets 294m/s (965 fps) JSB King = 71J (53fpe) and 263m/s JSB King Heavy =76J(56.5fpe) !  8)

Still need to work heavier hammer and harder spring...


Take a look at going to a harder poppet material, such as peek, and reducing the poppet diameter as small as possible.  Once this is done the OEM hammer and spring should be good for getting into the mid 60fpe range.
Sincerely I did not understand yours suggestion ,can you explain on the photo?

I edited the post.  Disregard the part about reducing poppet diameter. 
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: Atom on April 03, 2019, 09:14:55 AM
With this power I have 35 pieces 8)
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: Airgunhunter73 on April 04, 2019, 01:22:33 PM
How can I order one of these plenums I'd like to try it in my M16 25.
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: Atom on April 05, 2019, 08:29:35 AM
With this change it gets 294m/s (965 fps) JSB King = 71J (53fpe) and 263m/s JSB King Heavy =76J(56.5fpe) !  8)

Still need to work heavier hammer and harder spring...


Take a look at going to a harder poppet material, such as peek, and reducing the poppet diameter as small as possible.  Once this is done the OEM hammer and spring should be good for getting into the mid 60fpe range.
Factory poppet is 8mm and hole on valve is 7 mm ...
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: mackeral5 on April 05, 2019, 09:11:28 AM
With this change it gets 294m/s (965 fps) JSB King = 71J (53fpe) and 263m/s JSB King Heavy =76J(56.5fpe) !  8)

Still need to work heavier hammer and harder spring...


Take a look at going to a harder poppet material, such as peek, and reducing the poppet diameter as small as possible.  Once this is done the OEM hammer and spring should be good for getting into the mid 60fpe range.
Factory poppet is 8mm and hole on valve is 7 mm ...

Understood.   A peek Poppet will make the valve a little more easy to open and you can make it approximately   7.5mm in diameter
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: Atom on April 05, 2019, 10:07:21 AM
With this change it gets 294m/s (965 fps) JSB King = 71J (53fpe) and 263m/s JSB King Heavy =76J(56.5fpe) !  8)

Still need to work heavier hammer and harder spring...


Take a look at going to a harder poppet material, such as peek, and reducing the poppet diameter as small as possible.  Once this is done the OEM hammer and spring should be good for getting into the mid 60fpe range.
Factory poppet is 8mm and hole on valve is 7 mm ...

Understood.   A peek Poppet will make the valve a little more easy to open and you can make it approximately   7.5mm in diameter
0.25 mm hmmm ??? Can it be made of delrin plasic? How to separate poppet and steel rod (unscrew
)?
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: mackeral5 on April 05, 2019, 03:26:41 PM
With this change it gets 294m/s (965 fps) JSB King = 71J (53fpe) and 263m/s JSB King Heavy =76J(56.5fpe) !  8)

Still need to work heavier hammer and harder spring...


Take a look at going to a harder poppet material, such as peek, and reducing the poppet diameter as small as possible.  Once this is done the OEM hammer and spring should be good for getting into the mid 60fpe range.
Factory poppet is 8mm and hole on valve is 7 mm ...

Understood.   A peek Poppet will make the valve a little more easy to open and you can make it approximately   7.5mm in diameter
0.25 mm hmmm ??? Can it be made of delrin plasic? How to separate poppet and steel rod (unscrew
)?

Delrin will likely extrude into the throat, Peek will not. 

I believe the poppet stem is simply pressed into the OEM poppet head. 
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: Atom on April 05, 2019, 04:35:49 PM

[/quote]

Delrin will likely extrude into the throat, Peek will not. 

I believe the poppet stem is simply pressed into the OEM poppet head.
[/quote]

Some other material except Peek?
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: Airgunhunter73 on April 24, 2019, 09:44:05 AM
Any more information on when this plenum will be available . Thanks
Title: Re: SPA M16 additional plenum...
Post by: Volvonium on June 15, 2019, 05:12:42 AM
There's a builder in the UK that posts on the Artemis P15 UK Facebook group that is going to manufacture  a 60cc plenum / tube extension, he's currently getting testers out.