GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: Kinetic45^ on January 20, 2019, 05:44:57 AM
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Are you trying something other than pellets in your airgun?
How many GTA members on the Darkside are casting?
Have you wondered if there are helpful hints and other people who you could share with so you could improve your results: both casting and shooting?
There is a discussion in the Big Bore section that you might check out about casting for airguns that I would like more people to look at and voice an opinion please.
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=153490.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=153490.0)
Note I have been casting for my .25 air rifles for years and have had some rifles shoot very well with slugs!
It opened up a whole new world for me.
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I, like a lot of members, have been casting for powder burners for a lot of years as it compliments the hobby. I cast because I enjoy it and not to save money because I feel that I can control most variables. It gives me an added pleasure when I pull the trigger and all goes well.
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I've been casting for years for my muzzle loaders and in the past couple of years I've been casting for airguns as well, I've got several NOE molds for pellets and one NOE mold for slugs. There is a casting section here on the forum it's https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?board=229.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?board=229.0)
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I also have casted for many years for my hunting PB's and ML's
in the last couple years i've been casting bullets for my airguns
in .25 .357 .45 and .50
using lyman, noe, lee, accurate and rcbs molds and other brands
i hunt with my airguns and enjoy using my bullets.
occasional paper shooting to test bullets and setting optics.
always looking for best accuracy in velocity with the most energy.
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John I'm jonesing for some warmer weather to get outside and do some casting but with below temps I don't think so. I hate buying pellets :(
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It's funny how some rifles like slugs and some only pellets.
My .25 Synrod shoots slugs (properly sized) as well as any pellet but my .25 Mrod will not shoot them as well, not terribly larger but noticably larger.
But the chase for 'perfection' is part of the attraction, haha
Still think people should vote to have the knowledge made more available to the average member/visitor by moving the cast bullet gate to with the Big Bore n Korean here in the Darkside.
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John I'm jonesing for some warmer weather to get outside and do some casting but with below temps I don't think so. I hate buying pellets :(
i here ya wayne, in the 20's this morn here on the coast....i gotta big buck
with my PB this morning in my swamp with my cast 405gr .459 lyman
i'm too old to blood trail........ ;)
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I will,
as soon as I get all the cleanup done to the 22 cal molds,
and do some more welding done on the melting pot,
for mold holder attachment.
And finish up with the head bumping press,
to resize all pellet head/skirts to what is needed to work,
for the best accuracy, for what I want to do........ ;)
20* inside the shop (no heat in a 40' x 40', double story) is too cold for my hands and feet,
I don't need any more problems with them etc.
Tia,
Don
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LOL!!! Latest "Bestest" inventions Don. Insulation And a HEATER! LOL ;D
I did without both for years in the shop. now that was not smart. Now it's so comfortable, that I want to go to sleep rather than work there. LOL!!!
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Mike
I have step one done, 6" foam/fiberglass on all 4 walls and roof, only 2" on the 14' roll up doors,
I would love to have a wood burner inside, only one problem, where?
As there as a upstairs, over 20' x 20', of the 40' x 40' x 20' high shop.
One side of the shop (North) is taken up with the Toy Hauler 28', roll up doors for in/out.
Under the 20' x 20' upstairs section, is my machine shop, Mill (2), lathe, power saw etc,
along with belt sanders (2), drill press (3), 2 wheel grinders, 2 welders, (stick/wire), 2, 4 x 6' work benches,
2 x 10' metal work bench, plus a lot of mics tools.
On the other side, is my reloading room 8 x 20', and a 8' square reefer/cold room, 12" thick with insulation,
and a small shower/toilet stuffed into the corner.
Only have a small 8' x 10' open clear section to the side of the one roll up door,
for working on any projects, I can get in there. ;)
When halfway tolerable temps are present, I open both roll up doors to let the heat in and the cold out,
but everything you touch/stand on is 20* etc, and cold concrete is COLD to stand on etc,
hands and feet just don't handle those temps very well, anymore.
Tia,
Don
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John I'm jonesing for some warmer weather to get outside and do some casting but with below temps I don't think so. I hate buying pellets :(
i here ya wayne, in the 20's this morn here on the coast....i gotta big buck
with my PB this morning in my swamp with my cast 405gr .459 lyman
i'm too old to blood trail........ ;)
Stop biggering, it's -20C here and dropping :( I do cast .224, .257 and .357 bullets, do have some .45 molds from trade but have yet to use them.
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Don, as a true Texican, I hate anything much under 72 degrees. LOL!!!
I - Don't - Like - Cold!!! Unless it's something I'm drink'n!
Man, I wish I had the room for a Lathe. I have a handful of projects needing attention. Next is an O ring groove in the breach of the .257 TJ's barrel blank. ;D
Mike
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.22 cal NOE Magnum Hunter Pellets that I cast today....
(http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/Bullet%20Casting/217%20Hunter%20Pellets_zpskwuw4ioa.jpg) (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/Bullet%20Casting/217%20Hunter%20Pellets_zpskwuw4ioa.jpg.html)
I did the lightest and the next one today.... 23.2 gr. and 24.6 gr.... I plan on doing the two heavier ones next....
Bob
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Bob those Magnum Hunters are one of my favorites for hunting, my PCP's live on a steady diet of those, the accuracy is unreal and even at 50 yards they're flat out devastating on squirrels. I'm sure you'll probably try them out this coming spring when the marmot's come out. We call them woodchucks or ground hogs here on my turf ;D
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I am at the mercy of the weather as well, cold with rain is not helping. Waiting to try out the NOE .30 and .357 molds. I have casted from the first molds that came out in .25 with great success. I have not tried the gen 2 molds yet. Casting for my big bore arsenal has saved me a bunch of money and can spend more time shooting without running out of ammo. I will just have to go into overdrive with the casting pot.
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I recently get a box of swaged slugs in .25 cal , 34.4 grains from Nielsen Specialty Ammo ; as shown in the picture they are hollow point , flat dish. I shot 5 through my Cricket at 55 yards and 56Fpe ; group was sub 1/2 inch.
The bad new : they are MUCH more expensive than "normal" pellets. So my idea is to cast them myself , but I was unable 'till now to find a mold giving the same shape and weight. If anybody could help….welcome ;)(http://)
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Wayne, I think Marmots are usually called "Rockchucks" because they prefer rocky mounds and piles of logs, rather than more open grasslands.... The species we have here are "Yellow-Bellied Marmots".... We also have a lot of "Columbian Ground Squirrels"....
Bob
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The smallest caliber slugs that I cast is 5,55mm (35 grain). The largest is .50 cal (380 grain)
In .25 I cast 6,4mm 49 grains slugs and I hope to receive new moulds for .25 cal. in two weeks.
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I recently get a box of swaged slugs in .25 cal , 34.4 grains from Nielsen Specialty Ammo ; as shown in the picture they are hollow point , flat dish. I shot 5 through my Cricket at 55 yards and 56Fpe ; group was sub 1/2 inch.
The bad new : they are MUCH more expensive than "normal" pellets. So my idea is to cast them myself , but I was unable 'till now to find a mold giving the same shape and weight. If anybody could help….welcome ;)(http://)
This is where I would like to get a group buy and get Al at NOE to make such a mold, for the .25, not .257!
I'd commit to one.
Anyone else interested?
Bob, can you help with this?
I'd like it to be a RG hollow point but I don't want it smooth sided, I would like it to have the Lee style 'Tumble Lube' grooves to ease chambering and reduce bore friction. They make it easier to go through chokes too so should be more accurate. It would only have maybe 2 or 3 grooves since the bullet is short.
The 34.7 are .328 but with the side grooves and a suitable HP, I think .340 might be better length to try for.
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I have cast .22 bullets for the one PCP that could shoot them fast enough to useful (lets say something like 25gr. at 900fps).
I don't bother any more...it''snot that much more usefulto justiidy the effort on my partOthe 34gr. JSB's do nearly thesame trickat allthe ranges I normally shoot at)
NBot to get me tatally wrong here...I LIKE that I could go "off the grid" and make cawsetsluts that would work with that one4 rifle....just that the 24gr. JSB .22's are not so farbehind them that I'd NEED to.
Build (or buy) a high pressure PCP,with a faster twist barrelo, teathered to a higther pressure tank, and you can sling really heavy .22 slugs at near .22LR speeds (or at least .22 sub-sonic match speeds0...but that aint't your every day sporter PCP.
Soooo... yes I have (cast them)...and no I don't (continue to cast them). Nice to know I CAN,just that nothing I do NEEDS them....but if it rings your bell, then do it.
Only advice I'dgive is this: if you are going to go "slug shooter4", then don't 1/2arse it..go all the way. THAT I can see as uesful,but if you just play awround with it (As I did) ande only manage a little better than factory pellets...just use the factory pellets.
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Carl, I don't know the reason for any lube grooves in a airgun bullet.... I think the best solution is a midbody that just clears the rifling lands.... and only two support areas, as far forward and back as possible, while still leaving length for a decent nose.... For the basics, you want a flat base, tangent ogive nose, and a meplat that can be made into a hollowpoint?.... Diameter 0.250", length about 0.340" if possible, and a weight of about 35 gr.?.... The problem is that is such a short bullet in .25 cal you have to make some compromises.... Nick uses a dished base to reduce the weight, you can't have that and a HP in a cast bullet.... His 35 gr. bullet also has a very short bearing section because he is trying to make the nose as long as possible.... Just look at the proportions of that bullet, and then try and figure out how to make the base flat so you can cast it.... Perhaps that is the reason for your lube grooves, to reduce the weight?....
35 gr. is really pushing the lower limit in a .25 cal bullet, IMO....
Bob
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Yes, besides the reduced friction in the bore and easier engraving into the rifling on chambering I was considering the tiny weight reduction or slight elongation of the bullet due to displaced volume from the grooves.
That short a slug is going to have problems with only two contact points. A pellet only has two but effectively it is longer due to the waspwaist and hollow base.
I've shot a lot of RatSniper, AirgunsofNebraska and NSA .25 slugs in the lighter weights of 34 to 39gr and done BETTER than pellets at longer ranges past 60 yards into the 100 to 150 distance. I think a cast .25 is a viable option for medium powered guns that can shoot the 33gr pellets well.
Using the corrugated/ripple tumble groove on the sides still casts easily in the smaller caliburs and helps stretch the bullet to give it more stability and centering in the bore, which is always a problem with short stubby bullets.
On the nose, it would have to be less pointed than the swaged but not a round nose. A hollow point for some expansion but mainly to move the center of gravity rearward.
Down through the years, casting for center-fire .224 and .257 the conventional lube grooves frequently were the cause of culling due to poor fill out. My experience with the shallow 'micro-groove' was less culling and just as good of accuracy. That has stood up in shooting (and casting) big bore air rifle too.
In this case, I believe a smooth sided bullet is just too short, but even a single conventional lube groove would cause the slug to be too long to fit the twist of most air rifles.
Yes/No?
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Did anybody try the Corbin swaging system ? they sale swaging dies for airgun pellets using a current reloading press .
http://www.bulletswage.com (http://www.bulletswage.com)
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Did anybody try the Corbin swaging system ? they sale swaging dies for airgun pellets using a current reloading press .
http://www.bulletswage.com (http://www.bulletswage.com)
That's what the NSA bullets are made on: Corbin equipment.
It costs $$$$
I tried the manual swaging and it was less than satisfactory, sold it to someone else.
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Yes , the equipment seems expensive ,even if I already get the reloading press; and I don't fully understand their explanations to order a given set of dies for a given pellet.
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I don't get why the short bullet being made longer would be an issue in the .25 ag barrels. I am shooting a cut down 257420 from Arsenal molds that is longer in the nose than a normal Lyman 257420, and at 57 grains, it is .439" in length.
The Rainstorm I am shooting it in has a 21" Walther/Lothar barrel with the choke removed and lapped barrel, and it is shooting apx. 1/2" at my 80 yard home range. Seems to work just vine.
The bullet you are describing, would be substantially shorter. No?
I also have a cut down NOE Ranchdog FP in hollow point at 50 grains and it too is very accurate, and has the thin driving bands, (lube groves), and a huge gaping hollow point for vermin. It's length is .397".
The most accurate of all is a NOE 110 gr. spire point that I decked the mold to .5255" and it is a laser.
the second most accurate is from an 8 cavity mold owned and cast in from D-Rig. It is the MP molds .25 mold and has very-very thin lube grouves. Almost microscopic. LOL! Its OAL is .4335" and comes in at .2545" before sizing.
some of these bullets are .257 bullets. Noe's are .260 as cast, the Arsenal is in the .258 range, and the bullets all size to .2495 easily in the NOE sizing system using an upside down press. ;)
Not one of these bullets shoot well in a faster 1-14 twist such as fund in the factory RS barrel, or the TJ's .257 barrels which are available in 1-10 and 1-14 twist. They do however shoot the much longer non modded bullets with extreme accuracy. The barrel I have in the gun now shows right at 1-18". W/L list it at 1-17.8 twist.
they also show the W/L barrel to be .254 in the grouves, it however measures the same .2495 I am sizing to.
This gave the best accuracy and fps of several sizes I tried in it.
I have it currently tuned to push the 57 grain spitzer to 899 to 918 fps for 102 to 107.70 fpe.
Speaking of the MP mold, a buddy of mine, Gregor from Slovenia or Slovakia, Never can remember which, designed the bullet for the Hubben. He is or has just joined the GTA at my invitation.
If he chimes in here, or other parts fo bullet shooting, and or casting, please welcome him to our family! 8)
Knife
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I think the length limitation is more based on weight so it is light enough to work in the more common lower powered airguns like unmodified Marauders, etc. 34 or 35 gr
Plus, the shorter bullet does better in their twist rates. Just trying to duplicate the swaged slugs. The heavier bullets shoot so slow they have bad trajectories in guns like that.
Seems like the .257 barrel guns have more power right from the go, so there's not much out there for the .250 guns JMHO
So design with a weight of 34gr and use grooves and HP to give a long enough bearing surface length to properly align the bullet in the bore. Too short a bearing length and the bullet cocks and accuracy is gone. Subsonic does not need the spitzer nose, mostly people like it because it looks pretty so design for the important factors first
Note that most of my molds are either boattail or gas check but for this one I think a flat base would be better for most people's purposes overall
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Such short bullets will not be an issue in any conventional airgun twist rates.... It seems strange to put a bunch of grooves in a bullet just to make it longer, grooves which will increase the drag.... JMO....
Yes, a flat base will increase the bearing length, the only way to go for such a short bullet.... If you don't mind a large Meplat, then it gets much easier.... How about a 60-70% Meplat, and a large HP?....
Bob
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The grooves would benefit the internal ballistics of a good launch with a small penalty in the external aerodynamics drag.
...a 60-70% Meplat, and a large HP?....
Something like that seemed to be necessary to get the parameters needed.
Plus, I believe the bands feed through the choke better than a solid slug does which has more swaging to get through
A short Ranch Dog style?
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I started from one of my BBTs, removed the BT and then stretched out the nose.... This is the result.... The dotted line on the nose is where the Ogive first touches the lands if they are 0.244".... ie the start of the bearing length...
(http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/NOE%20Airgun%20Pellets/250%20cal%20Short%20HP_zpskx3cdv5x.png) (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/NOE%20Airgun%20Pellets/250%20cal%20Short%20HP_zpskx3cdv5x.png.html)
That has a 60% Meplat and a huge HP.... I could not get the weight of the HP less than 37 gr. without shortening it further.... That could actually be done, because the bearing length is 0.200" (80% of caliber, and over 1/2 the bullet length)…. At 1.3 calibers long (0.325") the weight would be 35 gr. for the HP and 39 gr. for the FN.... That would make the midbody (which just clears the lands) 0.015" shorter, and the bearing length would still be acceptable, IMO....
Bob
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I’m starting to think the CG has a lot to do with how the bullets perform . Is there anyway to calculate the CG from bullets that are proven performers such as the 257420 and work your way from there? Knife has been decking molds for some time now and is getting some really good results . Or how about a comparison from CG to twist rate instead of basing the twist rate on bullet length. This could very well be already done , I just missed it in the details .
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I would love to try some of the 22cal NOE cast pellets in my air rifles, would consider casting but don't have money to waste on a mold for ammo the rifles didn't like. Almost as bad as buying tins of pellets to find that magic pellet. :-\
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I borrowed a friend's old CH bullet Knurling tool...made to put crimp groves in bullets.With a bigger knruming wheel,it can cover the whole length of the bullet...and with the adjustable stop,can manage to reduce them to various dimeters.
Can't make too much of a change in diameter, but can certainly cover .006" of diameter well (so anything from .218"to .224").
So I had to make a new much taller knurming wheel,be really careful of the coarse thread adjustable stop, but it worked for me.
Fiar warning...willneed a lathe to make the thicker knurming wheel out of kind of soft steel,a knurling bit on the lathe, and harden the new wheel to adapt one of these.
Slugs look kind of odd with that waffle pattern impressed on them,and if you want to try a lube it seems to hold it quite well. MAin advanatge was using it an adjustable sizer.
(https://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/M10/32c6b88b-c331-4e55-9480-83e6c6d8af75.jpg) (https://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/M10/32c6b88b-c331-4e55-9480-83e6c6d8af75.jpg.html)
Recovered pellets:
(https://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/M10/a995d183-5561-4b93-9548-4fbb8417716d.jpg) (https://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/M10/a995d183-5561-4b93-9548-4fbb8417716d.jpg.html)
Corbin does make a bullet knurling tool that would work (Although not cheap). More geared to big bore lead slugs,but can see where it would work with small bore slugs and end up with that same waffle pattern....may have to set up your own "stop"to adjust for diameter.
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I started from one of my BBTs, removed the BT and then stretched out the nose.... This is the result.... The dotted line on the nose is where the Ogive first touches the lands if they are 0.244".... ie the start of the bearing length...
(http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/NOE%20Airgun%20Pellets/250%20cal%20Short%20HP_zpskx3cdv5x.png) (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/NOE%20Airgun%20Pellets/250%20cal%20Short%20HP_zpskx3cdv5x.png.html)
That has a 60% Meplat and a huge HP.... I could not get the weight of the HP less than 37 gr. without shortening it further.... That could actually be done, because the bearing length is 0.200" (80% of caliber, and over 1/2 the bullet length)…. At 1.3 calibers long (0.325") the weight would be 35 gr. for the HP and 39 gr. for the FN.... That would make the midbody (which just clears the lands) 0.015" shorter, and the bearing length would still be acceptable, IMO....
Bob
As drawn it would work in my rifles but I would like some feedback from other guys here if they thought it should be lightened from the 37 to the 35gr instead so it's closer to a 33.95 JSB pellet?
Keeps it close to the same FPS, FPE and trajectory a shooter is used to.
Sure would be cool to have a four cavity mold and bang out a bunch of these :D
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Tidbits;
I knurl a few bullets from time to time. I use two mill files and with medium pressure I roll the bullets between them. Some take 1 pass, some take a return pass. Works well.
The trajectory won't be the same with a pellet and bullet of the same weight. The bullet will hit at a much higher poi at any range longer than 40 yards. Even then it is slightly higher. Only not much. At 60-80 yards, Woah, a huge difference. So not an issue using a slightly heavier bullet to replace a pellet. I will help with poi issues.
No advantage in using a spitzer in an ag bullet. Well, on paper, No. However, the two most accurate bullets I have tested are spitzers. In a lengthy test, Cedric and Dyotat found the same. In the .257, Nothing, and I mean nothing beats the old .257388 Ideal. It is Pin point. Unreal accuracy. Additionally, even though conventional wisdom says a spitzer does not help at sub sonic, it says the same for a BT. Both however will show less wind drift, and a higher poi at longer distances. So much for theory. Actual testing shows differently.
For hunting however, it needs to be HP'd as it pokes tiny holes in game. Yep, tried that too.
A flat base will not be normally as accurate as a gc bullet. The reasons have been proven, and shown here repeatedly. There are two that come to mind at the moment.
One, the base leaving the muzzle is cleaner on a boat tail or GC bullet. It will be able to leave cleaner. And the base (Push a slug thru the bore to see this effect), will have a number of trailers on the base with the number being the number of lands in your barrel. This will show both the effects of the escaping gas upon leaving the bore, and down range as the tiny paddles of lead in the rear cause drag and are churning the air, and I would just about bet that they increase spin drift.
These are things not seen in a jacketed PB bullet, but are very noticeable in a Lead AG bullet.
When I deck a mold, I leave the last lube groove on the base to act in the same manner as a GC in the shooting of the bullet.(many times only half of the lube groove) I have tested the same bullets left as such, and bullet with the semi GC removed. The differences are dramatic. Two such bullets, both decked NOE RD, the flat base will print 1 1/2 at 80 yards, with fliers, and the semi GC's are in the 1/2" to 3/4" range. Huge improvements!
The same differences have shown up in the decked Arsenal 257420 bullets and the Lyman 257-420's as well.
This was a costly test, as it required the use of two identical molds to do the test properly. Both exactly the same in all respects except the decking of the molds for GC and Without GC. This was repeated in 4 different mold designs with the same results each and every time. Regardless of whether .257 .250, or speed at which the bullets were being tested. I shot from 780 fps to 960's and many different fps in between. Same-same every time. The test included hundreds of bullets being shot down range starting at 30 yards and carried out to 80+ yards.
Once the fps goes over 1000 to 1050 fps the differences are even more dramatic.
And finally, it is NOT the weight, nor the weight difference of a longer bullet in the rifling that makes the difference in the accuracy. The length had a huge bearing on the stability of the bullet in flight in direct relation of the length to twist ratio. Otherwise, and generous HP would at times require a different twist rate. It doesn't!
Knife
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OK, good thoughts n points KnifeMaker.
Agreed on the gas check shank, see my Accurate 155gr being tested by TriggerTreat and ShakySarge. Plus the NOE TL.358 128gr too
What would you set out to someone like Bob as the design parameters for a .25 slug for the standard powered air rifle most shooters own ( not guys like you and me who have modified guns or high dollar guns). That's what this is, working out the details and trying to get a mold where there is none to fill that gap.
For example, my .25 WARP shoots both slugs and pellets very well, but not anything heavier than 40 gr. My Gen2 unmodified Mrod is about the same...
My higher FPE Hill valved and .187 TP/barrel .25 Synrod likes the heavier weights, 30 to 45.
The TJ barreled FLEX .25 with the openned up Cothran valve (it's actually a .357 rifle that also has a .25 barrel too) and elongated bore size port needs 50 gr to 60gr to preform and lighter pellets n slugs don't do very good at all.
FYI- I have both the NOE 50gr and 60gr BBT just for this rifle
There's enough heavy bullets out there but not enough light so I want everyone's input on what they want.
Tell Bob the way you would do it, please.... for .25, not a .257
How would you have enough bearing length but still keep it a lighter bullet AND have a GC shank base?
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So what your saying Mike is that the length of bullet vs .twist rate have a bigger impact on the accuracy then the Centre of Gravity based on your testing ? If only there was a magic formula for what works and what doesn’t .
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Sure seems so Denis. I do know that adding a HP to a bullet will often times help by moving the COG back more.
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Carl, I suggested a long time ago to AL t try making a shorter version of the noe .257 RD FP. No reason it can't be made in .250. Exactly what I am doing, but it has more friction, as it started at a .260 as cast.
I have them down to 36 grains. But shoots better at 44 grains in my gun. A lower powered gun could benefit from the 36 grain bullet no doubt. A HP would lower it further. ;)
Mike
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Sure seems so Denis. I do know that adding a HP to a bullet will often times help by moving the COG back more.
+1
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I don't have a program that computes the CG or CP of a bullet.... NOE does, and so does NSA, it is available from TMT here....
http://www.tmtpages.com/#draw (http://www.tmtpages.com/#draw)
Nick says that keeping the CG back as far as possible yields better accuracy.... Who am I to argue?....
Regarding using a gas check stub on this design, I wouldn't draw it up that way.... The bearing length is already relatively short, and removing some of that just to make a GC stub has a good chance of trading off loading the bullet crooked, or having it yaw in the bore because the bearing area is too short.... just to try and get better accuracy from a cleaner base with no sprue cutter damage.... The absolute minmum bearing length I would use is 2/3rds of the caliber, and 3/4 - 1 caliber is preferred.... The only time I use 2/3rds of a caliber is if the LOA is 1-1/3 calibers or less.... ie the bearing length is still at least half the bullet length.... For a .250 cal, 2/3 of that is 0.167", which is only .033" less than I have now.... If I shorten the bullet by 0.015" to reduce the weight of the HP to 35 gr. then the bearing length would only be 0.018" longer than my absolute minimum.... GC shanks in .25 cal are a minimum of 0.050", so there just isn't enough length for a GC on a 35 gr. bullet in this caliber, IMO....
How would you have enough bearing length but still keep it a lighter bullet AND have a GC shank base?
Cast it out of pure Tin.... ::) …. Then the bullet could have the shape of a 50 gr. bullet but only weigh 33 gr.... 8)
Bob
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I'll repeat, I liked what you drew up Bob and if NOE offers it as a regular mold I'll buy it.
Or, less satisfactory, if a group buy, I'm in
For that matter, if anyone comes up with a good improvement you incorporate, I still want it.
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If you would like me to submit the design to Al, let me know if you want it as is, or 0.015" shorter to bring the weight of the HP down to 35 gr.... I will then put it in the Group Buy Discussion section, and if there is any interest it will progress to a Group Buy.... The only way to bypass this system is to pony up $300 for the tooling costs.... If you do that, then you can purchase a mould at the regular price, and Al will put extras in the store when he makes yours....
Bob
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Mr. Bob, you lost me here. No one said a thing about a GC base preventing damage from the spru plate. No one. If you are having spur plate cutter damage, you are either cutting too hot, aor the actual thru hole that cuts the lead needs to sharpened rather than used as supplied.
Please re-read what I wrote. You seem to have missed most of what I wrote. In fact, just about all of it.
You already add a boat tail to your bullets. No different than a gas check shank in preventing damage, and no difference in adding length, other than I suggest a very short area where the Gas Check wold normally be.
The Gas check area needs be no more than .020 to .025 loing. Not much at all. In fact, in several of the bullets I cast, the GS section is actually a taper, or just a very short Boat Tail. You yourself have acknowledged repeatedly in print the success several of the long range shooters are having with bullets with a GC shank. Yet you now reverse this. Why? It works well. While the Boat Tail designs work sometimes, in some barrels. I don't get it. Please tell me who you are aware of other than Myself, tofazfou, Noble, RC. and rifle 50 has gotten better,or eve near accuracy for an AG. And who with boat tails? I only know of one, and it is still not up to what we have already established.
The MP BT works well in my barrel. Apparently not so well in the Huben is is designed for. Nick himself tells me that he has tested many-many different BT' and only a very few work well and give acceptable accuracy. And this is with due diligence in testing. Not from some chart or graph.
Please Sir reread what I wrote. I am going on actual test in shooting for accuracy. Not theory or what some program says should work. Theory is fine, an fun, not cannot replace real world testing.
In actuality, the bearing surface in a small bullet needs to be at or slightly over the ida of the bullet. Not the length And weight has nothing with the stability. None, unless we are talking about wind drift. A heavier bullet will fare better, and exactly why a longer bullet made from tin would be a step backwards. Not forwards.
Respectfully, Knife
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If you would like me to submit the design to Al, let me know if you want it as is, or 0.015" shorter to bring the weight of the HP down to 35 gr.... I will then put it in the Group Buy Discussion section, and if there is any interest it will progress to a Group Buy.... The only way to bypass this system is to pony up $300 for the tooling costs.... If you do that, then you can purchase a mould at the regular price, and Al will put extras in the store when he makes yours....
Bob
Honestly, sometimes I think the Group Buy at NOE is where a lot of discussions go to die. JMO
I actually want it wait a few days and see if anyone has anything to add on the design and see what interest is generated HERE with the shooters of GTA.
Yes, I was willing to pay the $300 for the redesigned .357 152gr BBT but Al decided to just do it without my investment. That is sort of a specialty mold for a calibur that is just growing in popularity. {Note that the bullets have been quite good performers in both my Pitbull and FLEX and several other people's rifles - I hope those I've sent bullets to and liked them buy the mold for themselves}.
This .25 mold would be different because it is much more common calibur and I think it will sell itself on the merits if enough members become aware of it's possibility.
On another note, I agree with KnifeMaker on the gas check shanks. I found years ago shooting benchrest that for some unknown reason the GC shanks were the most accurate over BT, flat base or especially bevel base. And I and some other shooters found it can be shortened 1/2 and still work. Why? Never knew, just is. The Accurate 36-168J has such a shank and is proving itself.
I await an alternative design vs the one proposed and want to see what you and he work out before I commit.
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Michael, I realize that GC bullets have a reputation for being more accurate than PB bullets.... Whether that is from having a perfect release point where the last band leaves the crown or not I don't know, but I have seen lots of PB bullets that have imperfect bases from the sprue cutter, and that doesn't matter with a GC stub or a BT, because the base never touches the bore.... I use a rebated boattail so that the last band has a clear, sharp edge, just like a GC bullet, and for the same reasons.... There are lots of high speed photos of rebated boattails leaving the muzzle, showing clearly that the muzzle blast is directed to the sides, rather than forward enveloping the bullet.... I have no doubt that a GC stub works the same way.... There is a standard minimum length for gas checks, which varies with caliber, and I have never seen one on a .25 cal shorter than 0.050".... That is what my comment was based on.... If you are using shorter ones successfully, that's great....
You state that the minimum bearing length should be "at or slightly over the ida (sic, I presume you meant diameter) of the bullet", and I completely agree, that is ideal.... If you notice, I said that the only time I use a shorter bearing area is where the bullet overall length is short enough that at least half the bullet length is supported.... Using your 1 caliber rule, the minimum bearing area would be 0.250" long.... Try for that on a 0.340" (or shorter) bullet, and you will have a VERY short nose, and nothing left for a gas check stub.... A RN .25 cal design, with a 0.250" bearing length, would be 0.375" LOA.... So, thanks for confirming what I said.... Using a GC on this short a bullet is a non-starter.... unless you want a semi-wadcutter nose....
As far as making a bullet of a given WEIGHT from Tin, instead of Lead, you are wrong.... The Tin bullet, being longer and slimmer, will have less drag.... It will still have the same Sectional Density (same weight punching the same size hole through the air), but a better Form Factor.... Since the Ballistics Coefficient depends on BOTH factors, a Tin bullet of the same caliber and weight as a Lead bullet, can and should have LESS drag, and therefore be better in retaining velocity and energy and resisting a crosswind....
If you are talking casting the same bullet, from any given mould, in Tin or Lead, you are right, the Tin will slow down quicker, because the SD is lower, because it only weighs 65% as much as the lead bullet.... However, if you make two 35 gr. bullets, one of Lead and 0.340" long and the other of Tin and about 0.10" longer.... the Tin one can definitely have less drag, and a better BC....
Bob
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Carl, I am not about to try and change Al's business model.... If you were successful in getting him to make a design "on spec", that's great, but I am not about to ask him for that kind of a favour…. There are LOTS of my BBT designs I would like to get, but if nobody else is interested enough, then I am comfortable that Al won't make a profit, and I'm not about to ask him to take a chance on something I am the only one that want to see made.... as much as I would like to at times.... If NOE make too many moulds that don't sell, then they could go out of business, and I certainly don't want to see that....
You didn't answer my question about if you would sooner see this design or the shorter one at 35 gr. for a HP.... Let me know and I will send it to Al, or I can draw it up for you, and you can send it to him yourself....
Bob
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I would be fine with the 37gr design but before you submit I wanted to see what others preferred since a wrong choice will kill it.
Maybe we should have a poll to see what the Darkside people want?
Not in this one, start a new one just for the .25 design and just ask what they would vote for
1. 35gr?
2. 37gr?
I could OP a thread and quote your drawing (with your permission) or perhaps you could start a thread and ask?
I'll look tomorrow to see what you answer is, as I've got to shut down tonight.
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I'll draw up the other one and run the poll....
EDIT: It's up and running for 7 days....
Bob
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Guys, I just ran across this bullet in 9mm that bears looking at....
(http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/N.O.E._Bullet_Moulds_359-115-HP_PB_R2_Cust.Jpg)
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=34_260&products_id=376 (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=34_260&products_id=376)
If scaled down to .250 diameter it would be 39 gr. as a FN and 37 gr. as a HP.... Make the midbody a bit bigger and eliminate the middle drive band, and you have almost exactly what I designed.... Want to see something cool, though, if you don't remove the middle drive band?....
Chop off the design and you get this.... (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/N.O.E._Bullet_Moulds_359-88-HP_PB_S2__Cust.Jpg)
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=34_255&products_id=2201 (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=34_255&products_id=2201)
In .25 cal it would be 28 gr. as a HP and 30 gr. as a FN.... :o …. Two bullet designs for one set of tooling.... 8)
Bob
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Guys, I just ran across this bullet in 9mm that bears looking at....
(http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/N.O.E._Bullet_Moulds_359-115-HP_PB_R2_Cust.Jpg)
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=34_260&products_id=376 (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=34_260&products_id=376)
If scaled down to .250 diameter it would be 39 gr. as a FN and 37 gr. as a HP.... Make the midbody a bit bigger and eliminate the middle drive band, and you have almost exactly what I designed.... Want to see something cool, though, if you don't remove the middle drive band?....
Chop off the design and you get this.... (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/N.O.E._Bullet_Moulds_359-88-HP_PB_S2__Cust.Jpg)
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=34_255&products_id=2201 (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=34_255&products_id=2201)
In .25 cal it would be 28 gr. as a HP and 30 gr. as a FN.... :o …. Two bullet designs for one set of tooling.... 8)
Bob
I have that first mold in .357 and shoot it in my Pitbull. 359-115-RF 2 cavity flat nose, casts 117gr in 1:40 alloy
I considered the lighter/shorter version but decided not to buy it because I've had bad luck ie: no accuracy in bullets like that that have a very short bearing length vs the bore size ratio. You might think it's like the EPP/UG bullet but the EPP has less nose out front so effectively the front band is further forward and more stabilizing
Secondly, sorry but my sausage fingers cringe with the thought of trying to fumble and get a .25 short bullet version of that nose first into the loading port... you could video it and put it on the Internet as a comedy and get lots of thumbs up
Less nose, more cylindrical body works for me like with your starting designs in the first posts
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That short 88 grain bullet has been very accurate in .357 Evanixes.
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That short 88 grain bullet has been very accurate in .357 Evanixes.
Send me some, I'll honestly try them
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Thanks for pointing out that 115 gr HP Bob, looks like it will be a good match for my Recluse :)
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Guys, I just ran across this bullet in 9mm that bears looking at....
(http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/N.O.E._Bullet_Moulds_359-115-HP_PB_R2_Cust.Jpg)
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=34_260&products_id=376 (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=34_260&products_id=376)
If scaled down to .250 diameter it would be 39 gr. as a FN and 37 gr. as a HP.... Make the midbody a bit bigger and eliminate the middle drive band, and you have almost exactly what I designed.... Want to see something cool, though, if you don't remove the middle drive band?....
Chop off the design and you get this.... (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/N.O.E._Bullet_Moulds_359-88-HP_PB_S2__Cust.Jpg)
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=34_255&products_id=2201 (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=34_255&products_id=2201)
In .25 cal it would be 28 gr. as a HP and 30 gr. as a FN.... :o …. Two bullet designs for one set of tooling.... 8)
Bob
Chop off off just the last drive band leaving a "gascheck" at the base and you effectively get three
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Yes, I know that the 88 gr. scaled down to 30 gr. would be very short.... but comparing the 115 gr. to what I designed is the proper comparison, as it would be 39 gr. in .25 cal.... It was just a thought, when I found it, I felt I had to share it with you guys.... I still like the new one I designed for the purpose stated....
Bob
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Looks almost identical to what I ended up with the experiment with the NOE RD decked. It didn't shoot well, until I tried another mold and left what looks like a gas check on the base.
this was done by milling the last driving band off, and leaving the lube grove. HP'd, this bullet weighs 44.3 grains, and started life as a .257 and sized down to .2500.
It is explosive on vermin, as the mold had been HP's by Eric in all five cavities. 8)
Oddly enough, I have a mold here that started out as a 105 gr spitzer, and the mold was damaged when owned by RoachCreek. It was too bad to repair by Al, so RC sent it to me for possibly bringing it back. Well, it was toast!
Fast forward, and in testing for the .257 barrel, I decked it enough to remove the damaged cavities. It was a dismal failure in the .257. Forward again, and I decided to try it in the .25 barrel.
The bullet only has two very small driving bands left. It is long, with a very shallow tapered ogive. It was to small in dai. after decking for the .257, but yet fit the .250 without sizing at all. It turned out to be my second most accurate bullet, just behind slugs cast in the MP mold that D-Rig sent for testing.
I don't see how it can be accurate, as the body of the bullet does not engage the lands at all. Only the very rear at the driving bands. Yet it is very accurate, and is very good in the wind. Odd to say the least!
No mag. I have cn use it, so it has to be single loaded. I may make a single shot tray for it next week, or in the near future. It is that accurate, that the effort will be worth it. ;)
Knife
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Here are the NOE RD's before the decking work.
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=116289.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=116289.0)
And the Spire point I am getting such fantastic accuracy from. I also have this mold decked to 84 grains for my .257 Talondor. It is very much like the Ideal 388 in the accuracy dept.
I would love to get this mold HP'd,.
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=26_173&products_id=1236&osCsid=6moel2o6nhkf8jag5j5a6hj0j7 (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=26_173&products_id=1236&osCsid=6moel2o6nhkf8jag5j5a6hj0j7)
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I wonder if one of you had tested de .25 ACP slug 51 grains in an air rifle.
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I wonder if one of you had tested de .25 ACP slug 51 grains in an air rifle.
Yes, I have the Lyman .25 ACP mold and if shot at 800 or above it does OK. Honestly, it's not a tack driving bullet in any one of my .25s. I'm going to send it to Eric at hollowpointmold but it may or may not help to change the accuracy by changing the CG by doing that.
If you are looking for a good 50, the boattail Bob/rsterne designed for NOE does well in my higher powered air rifles but is too heavy for stock Marauders and similar powered rifles. Which is what the effort to get a lighter slug that will work for more shooters guns
NOE 250-50-FN-BB3 2 Cavity is what I was mentioning
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I am having excellent results with the NOE Ranch dog 80 gr. decked to throw them at 46 grains with the huge HP cavity. Very accurate, sized down to .2495 in my Rainstorm.
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I also designed a 41 gr. BBT in .250 cal, and there are lots of them in the NOE Store, although the only HPs left are single cavity moulds.... http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=554_467 (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=554_467)
(http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/N.O.E._Bullet_Moulds_250-41-HP_BT_BK2_.Jpg)
I have the 0.253/0.255" version which I bought to try in a LW barrel and have never opened the box.... There was a guy here on the GTA last year who was shooting the 0.250/0.252" in an LW barrel and he loved it.... The HP version is 39 gr.... It is 0.333" long....
I mention this because that might mean that the lighter version in the poll would make more sense because the heavier one is pretty close to this BBT.... Comments?....
Another thought just hit me.... I wonder if we can get Al to re-run this design in the RG2 and RG4 moulds with all cavities having the HP (and other) pins.... Once he gets some bullets out there with the small RG pins, it would be worth asking him....
Bob
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Thanks a lot. I have just bought a RCBS 25 acp mould 51 grains and hope that the slug will be accurate in my Sumatra and Sparrow.
I'll let you know if I have shot these slugs.
The NOE 250-50-FN-BB3 like Kinetic45 wrote will be my next buy.
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I also designed a 41 gr. BBT in .250 cal, and there are lots of them in the NOE Store, although the only HPs left are single cavity moulds.... http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=554_467 (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=554_467)
(http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/N.O.E._Bullet_Moulds_250-41-HP_BT_BK2_.Jpg)
I have the 0.253/0.255" version which I bought to try in a LW barrel and have never opened the box.... There was a guy here on the GTA last year who was shooting the 0.250/0.252" in an LW barrel and he loved it.... The HP version is 39 gr.... It is 0.333" long....
I mention this because that might mean that the lighter version in the poll would make more sense because the heavier one is pretty close to this BBT.... Comments?....
Another thought just hit me.... I wonder if we can get Al to re-run this design in the RG2 and RG4 moulds with all cavities having the HP (and other) pins.... Once he gets some bullets out there with the small RG pins, it would be worth asking him....
Bob
I would very much like to see NOE offer the pins in the small bullet offerings! ;)
Mike
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Good luck with the RCBS 25 ACP bullets.... I have that mould, and had one cavity converted to HP by Erik.... That shortened the RN slightly, of course, and dropped the weight from 52.9 gr. to 46.7 gr. (in pure lead)…. I never got either to shoot really well, the sprue cutter distorts the base of the bullet, so it isn't perfect and square.... I even tried tumbling the bullets to smooth out the corners of the base to no avail.... I was shooting them in a 14" twist TJ's liner with a 0.250" groove and 0.243" lands.... I also tried them in a 17.7" twist LW barrel, not great in that either....
(http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/Bullet%20Casting/IMG_3790_zps6b037050.jpg) (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/Bullet%20Casting/IMG_3790_zps6b037050.jpg.html)
The HP bullets will fit in an MRod mag, the RN won't....
Bob
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Good luck with the RCBS 25 ACP bullets.... I have that mould, and had one cavity converted to HP by Erik.... That shortened the RN slightly, of course, and dropped the weight from 52.9 gr. to 46.7 gr. (in pure lead)…. I never got either to shoot really well, the sprue cutter distorts the base of the bullet, so it isn't perfect and square.... I even tried tumbling the bullets to smooth out the corners of the base to no avail.... I was shooting them in a 14" twist TJ's liner with a 0.250" groove and 0.243" lands.... I also tried them in a 17.7" twist LW barrel, not great in that either....
(http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/Bullet%20Casting/IMG_3790_zps6b037050.jpg) (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/Bullet%20Casting/IMG_3790_zps6b037050.jpg.html)
The HP bullets will fit in an MRod mag, the RN won't....
Bob
Totally agree, I never got them to work well and there are too many good molds out there instead.
Hummm, On second thought, I think I'll just cancel the HP then if you've already tried it and it did not work, I'm not going to re-invent the wheel and waste my time.
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…. I never got either to shoot really well, the sprue cutter distorts the base of the bullet, so it isn't perfect and square.... I even tried tumbling the bullets to smooth out the corners of the base to no avail....
Bob
thanks Bob, so to prevent the base of the bullet from distorts, I will have to make a new sprue cutter that's sharper and with smaller holes in it. As soon as I have made one, I'll let you know.
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That will certainly help.... The distorted base on flat base bullets is one of the reasons most guys prefer gas check base bullets, as the rear drive band, which is the part that must leave the crown evenly all the way around, is not disturbed by the sprue cutter....
Bob
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Could someone post a "Beginner's Guide to casting pellets or slugs? I have an incredible amount of lead saved from the tens-of-thousands rounds I shoot annually and it would be great to put them to use in a second life as a cast pellet or slug. But honestly, I have no idea where to begin. The whole process sounds very intimidating for someone just trying to get started casting their own ammo. Personally I would be interested in casting .22 pellets and slugs, .25 slugs and .30 slugs. Any and all help listing every thing necessary would be appreciated. From the molds to anything special like lubes or sizing equipment?
T. Himes
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you are just going to have to read every thing you can... it is truly a very deep subject on it's own since you want to recycle you need to learn alloying but at first you can just buy some alloyed lead... learning hardness testing...learn to clean (sawdust works) flux(parafin works) etc....etc... ect...
then casting well it's pacing and other things cause different people use differing methods... I have poured .25 34g pellet without a lot of rejects and do not pressure pour... but I do keep a pace and heat in the sprue plate with a generous sprue puddle... am pouring at about 790* with a 1.5% tin mix... that temp is about 40*F past what the tin likes it loses its ability to help fill out by reducing surface tension... it also really starts oxidizing if I read right(paraffin can help get it back in the mix)... and that should promote tin oxides building up on my Brass mold... but by the time I get the ladle to the mold and as I pour it is cooling...so I figure its is about down to 750 or so by the time it hits the mold... the pace needs to keep the base pins hot but you want to run the brass cool as possible for mold longevity... so you balance your pace... will be trying my pour at a lower temp when it warms up and I get back to casting on the back porch...
some use temp probes in their mold and pid temp controllers for there pot to get as much temperature consistency as possible... I do not... and just use the small lee pot... and ladle pour...
using them in a air rifle is another set of issues...
I once saw a chart of surface tension and the temp of lead tin/alloys... but can not find it now... point is there is a lot to learn in a bunch of directions how deep do you want to dive in... and which direction...
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?222520-Why-some-new-members-will-do-better-than-others-here (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?222520-Why-some-new-members-will-do-better-than-others-here)
I have the advantage of having listened to some poeple over the years and have been a mold/core maker on the sand side of an aluminum foundry... I still am looking at info all over...
http://www.lasc.us/castbulletalloy.htm (http://www.lasc.us/castbulletalloy.htm)
casting big bullets is different from casting small hollow points... and thin skirted pellets want what they want...
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_13_CastingHPBullets.htm (http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_13_CastingHPBullets.htm)
http://www.hensleygibbs.com/casting/223cast2.htm (http://www.hensleygibbs.com/casting/223cast2.htm)
so yeah read everything you can and come up with your methods and enjoy the journey... share your questions and experiences if you are so inclined...
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?board=229.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?board=229.0)
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Thank you for the info!!
Tom
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Good luck with the RCBS 25 ACP bullets.... I have that mould, and had one cavity converted to HP by Erik.... That shortened the RN slightly, of course, and dropped the weight from 52.9 gr. to 46.7 gr. (in pure lead)…. I never got either to shoot really well, the sprue cutter distorts the base of the bullet, so it isn't perfect and square.... I even tried tumbling the bullets to smooth out the corners of the base to no avail.... I was shooting them in a 14" twist TJ's liner with a 0.250" groove and 0.243" lands.... I also tried them in a 17.7" twist LW barrel, not great in that either....
(http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/Bullet%20Casting/IMG_3790_zps6b037050.jpg) (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/Bullet%20Casting/IMG_3790_zps6b037050.jpg.html)
The HP bullets will fit in an MRod mag, the RN won't....
Bob
I keep thinking about how I have never found a good report on that mold air or pb... then I think maybe if the grease groove was opened up to gas check size and then if that does not help... deck the tail off leaving just the pseudo gas check shank... it might do well... depends on if the nose gives enough support and it has enough bearing length...
I was having a prob with the BBT .25 40g boat tail base having one slightly rounded bit and the rest of the base filling well...
well I pour hot with a large sprue puddle to keep the sprue plate hot... that was causing shrink when using the .140 sprue hole... switched to a .125 sprue hole and problem fixxed... it was a different prob than below where the base is sheared and pulls away to one side... but can have the same fix... but yep mine was not a fill or distortion prob it was shrink...
right after opening the mold if you see one side pulled away like in below thread... this is base distortion... Is this the kind you meant..? I can see the deep grease groove help causing it to be that way...
http://www.mountainmolds.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=195 (http://www.mountainmolds.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=195)
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Like you've I've never seen a good report on the RCBS .25 molds accuracy. Only bad. But then again, it is designed for the .25 acp. When is the time you read a accuracy report on a .25 acp. LOL I guess the design isn't accurate, because it doesn't need to be. Just needs to feed reliably.
Now, about the half moon bases. Open too soon, and the base either tears at the spru or smears. Open too late,and the tension causes the lead to move, causing the half moon base. It's a timing issue. ;)
Casting truly i sa leaned science. 8) [size=78%] [/size]
A smaller spru hole helps a LOT, and additional pressure in the pour will take care of the fallout with the smaller hole. ;)
And whatever you do, make, and keep the spru hole cutter as sharp as possible.
Knife
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Thanks, I'll test the accuaracy of the 25 acp in my air rifles and hope to be lucky..... ;D
If not, I can sell the mould again, or let it change and try again.
The problems with the bullet base while casting, is simular for other small bore cast bullets. And there has to be some challenge to make casting more fun.
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you are just going to have to read every thing you can... it is truly a very deep subject
Oh no......not another Rabbit Hole :o ::) ;D
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NT
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I just received the official NOE drawing for this bullet (as in Reply #29).... Al says NOE should be back at full production within a couple of weeks and this will be going in the lineup for the mill....
Bob
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I just got done casting up a bunch of my 19.6 grain from the 217-20-RF mold, I'm weighing them now and it appears to be a decent run so far, I use more of these pellets than anything else.
I've still got my fingers crossed for NOE to start making the .217 wadcutters, hopefully soon.
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The .22 Target pellets are also in the list to hit the mill when it is available.... and also the .30 cal Target pellet and the .45 cal Magnum Hunters.... Al is also aware that most of the other pellet (and BBT) moulds are out of stock....
Bob
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The .22 Target pellets are also in the list to hit the mill when it is available.... and also the .30 cal Target pellet and the .45 cal Magnum Hunters.... Al is also aware that most of the other pellet (and BBT) moulds are out of stock....
Bob
Great news for sure, then I'll be using the target pellets instead of my 19.6 grainers, the meplats are excellent for lower powered pcp's when hunting and I'll probably use a lot less when I get some target pellets going :D
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I just received the official NOE drawing for this bullet.... It looks like it should be proceeding once Al has everything back up and running full steam, which he says will be in a couple of weeks....
Bob
For which bullet? Hopefully .25 or .22 HP.
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(as in Reply #29)....
Bob
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It would be great if one of you were able to test the .252 in a GM choked barrel or similar. I already dove in on the 252-41 BBT, but had no joy. This one looks similar without the BT.
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(as in Reply #29)....
Bob
Sorry was on my phone and couldn't see where they're numbered but see it now. Thanks, I'll pick one up for sure.
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I've checked the .251 size at NOE regularly to see if this bullet ever turned up but have never seen it. Or waited to maybe seei a new post here saying available.
I was working with Al at NOE on other bullets but not this one, it was more rsterne communicating with Al on this one I thought.
Honestly, I saw a need for the community based on my shooting experience, but I've moved mostly into 7mm and .357, so much so that my .25 guns are all sitting idle and I've even considered selling them. (Except my 130 FPE .250 FLEX but that shoots heavy 50gr bullets)
If the community wants this bullet/mold someone (else) is going to have to light some fire to get it manufactured.
I would still buy one if it became available though.
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It would be great if one of you were able to test the .252 in a GM choked barrel or similar. I already dove in on the 252-41 BBT, but had no joy. This one looks similar without the BT.
Keith the 250-41-FN's are too tight in my Mrod with a GM barrel, I can chamber them but they really need to be sized down about a thousandth.
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It would be great if one of you were able to test the .252 in a GM choked barrel or similar. I already dove in on the 252-41 BBT, but had no joy. This one looks similar without the BT.
Keith the 250-41-FN's are too tight in my Mrod with a GM barrel, I can chamber them but they really need to be sized down about a thousandth.
Thanks Wayne! Yea, I've sized them down to .249 so far. I need to work on the leade some according to other member's input here.