GTA
Support Equipment For PCP/HPA/CO2 and springers ,rams => Support Equipment For PCP/HPA/CO2 => Topic started by: Bowtieguy_66 on November 25, 2018, 12:12:27 AM
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Hi,
I just recieved my first pcp, a at44, and with it a hand pump. The pump will do in a pinch, but i want to spend more time shooting than pumping.
Max air pressure is 3000, but instructions say not to go over 2000, and fill up once i hit 1000.
Under $300 with all i need to start filling. Longevity more important than weight.
https://www.amazon.com/Air-Venturi-Carbon-Fiber-Station/dp/B00DZYM4A2/ref=mp_s_a_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1543119076&sr=8-4&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=4500+psi+air+tank&dpPl=1&dpID=41ZmKTU6XRL&ref=plSrch (https://www.amazon.com/Air-Venturi-Carbon-Fiber-Station/dp/B00DZYM4A2/ref=mp_s_a_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1543119076&sr=8-4&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=4500+psi+air+tank&dpPl=1&dpID=41ZmKTU6XRL&ref=plSrch)
This is a bit over my budget, plus im not sure about how many fills i can get, or if i would be able to fill it to 4500.
Im confused with tanks listed in c.i. and cu.ft., one lists 90ci, thats like .052 cu.ft. Isnt it
Im also not sure how much psi i can get it filled, there are 4 scuba stores and 1 paintball store here, but dont know specifics about them.
Thanks
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That little fill station will last you about 4 or 5 good fills.
Your at44 is rated for 200 bar....
Take a look at life extended tanks at pyramyd air... or the black friday special at airguns of arizona (search with a laptop or desktop, dont know why I cant find the special on my phone browser)
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I will take a look.
So filling to 200 bar is 3000 psi? How different will that be at 4000 ft elevation, or will it matter that much to take in account elevation?
So would the china type hpa compressor be a more econimical choice, than to spend the same amount for a bottle? Im reffering to this
https://www.amazon.com/High-Pressure-Compressor-Adjustable-Auto-Stop-Paintball/dp/B0778GWSLY/ref=mp_s_a_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1543130345&sr=8-8&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=pcp+hpa+compressor&dpPl=1&dpID=51br8xsOLHL&ref=plSrch (https://www.amazon.com/High-Pressure-Compressor-Adjustable-Auto-Stop-Paintball/dp/B0778GWSLY/ref=mp_s_a_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1543130345&sr=8-8&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=pcp+hpa+compressor&dpPl=1&dpID=51br8xsOLHL&ref=plSrch)
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So filling to 200 bar is 3000 psi?
Correct... actually 2,900 psi
So would the china type hpa compressor be a more econimical choice, than to spend the same amount for a bottle?
In my opinion, yes.
I was looking for a SCBA / SCUBA tank myself and learned of the Yong Heng compressor.
After being on the fence and reading everything I could here, I decided to go with the compressor. Even if you get a good deal on a tank, it doesn't take too many trips to get it filled to justify your own compressor.
That said, I also have a couple of small (cheap) paint-ball tanks I can fill and take to recharge my gun if I am "out and about" away from my compressor.
There is a ton of info here on the compressor you listed, try searching "Yong Heng". ;)
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The most important consideration when making this decision is to determine how you would get your tank filled - the source of air is the most important thing. Figure that out first before you make any decision . . .
On one extreme you may find that you can't get a good full fill for a decent price without driving for an hour or more. In that case, a compressor makes the most sense.
On the other hand, you may find that you are one of the fortunate ones that has a fire station nearby that will fill your tank for free. In that case, you would not waste your money (and time on maintenance) on a compressor - you'll just want a decent sized tank for your amount of shooting (and used a perfectly viable lower cost option).
So figure that out first, then make your choice. And elevation has no impact on your fill - the change there is only a few psi in ambient pressure.
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One may even ask a local FD if they are planning on replacing old tanks and ask if they would consider selling one or two.
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I'm glad I got the F10 Shoebox recently, with good history on these compressors and a lot of happy customers I'm thinking it will last for many years. Sure they're not quite as inexpensive as much cheaper compressors however I don't want to end up having to get hold of Chinese parts for it, they're faster but in the last couple years I've seen too many people have big problems with them. I don't think they're made that good from what I've been seeing and reading. I have more than enough pcp's and I want to always be able to feed them air ;)
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Thanks, yes i have been reading about problems with the yong.
I will have to find out about the filling stations too.
Do they all fill to 4500, is this a normal psi fill?
Is the $400 range good for a 66 cu.ft. With 12 years left a good price.
Or what would you suggest?
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Some (most) tanks are 3000 psi max.
So... read up on used bottles. AKA: Hydro test, it's every 5 years. Carbon fiber tank have a life expectancy (for now). I think it is 15.
Not so much of a problem until you buy a "New" carbon fiber tank (unused) that is 10 years old.
It is out of date on the hydro, and only has a 1/3rd of it's life left.
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It takes a while to piece it all together . . . .
Generally (as in NOT a rule), SCUBA tanks tend to be steel or aluminum and fill to 3000 psi (some steel SCUBA tanks can fill to 3500). SCBA tanks (the difference being not "underwater") tend to be carbon fiber (CF) wrapped tanks, and have fills from 2200 up to 4500 psi. The reason for the difference is weight and buoyancy - CF tanks are too light under water and float (divers want neutral bouancy if they can get it; firefighters want light weight gear).
CF tanks in the US have a limited life, typically of 15 years (there is a new extended life system out now), while steel and aluminum tanks can last almost indefinitely, provided they pass their visual and hydro testing inspections. All storage tanks larger than 2" in diameter need to be inspected to be filled by a certified shop.
When you see a rating like "60 cubic feet" that refers to how much atmospheric air it holds at full pressure. When you see something like "500 cubic inches" that is refering to the base volume of the tank - think in terms of how much water it can hold.
Your usable air is the air above whatever you plan to fill to with your guns - if that happens to be 3000 psi, then a 3000 psi tank is not really very useful for anything other than shooting tethered (you will only get a very few fills out of it, and none of them to 3000 psi). That is why air gunners like 4500 psi SCBA tanks - they give us 1500 psi of usable air, or said another way, we get to use ~1/3 of the air for filling our guns (again, assuming a 3000 psi fill; more if a lower fill is desired).
One thing to be aware of is that air heats up when it is compressed, so it is very normal to only end up with about 4200 psi on a fill from most dive shops, unless you leave your tank with them for a top up hours later (thus leading to two trips for a full fill).
IF you don't have a convenient place to get a fill at a reasonable price, then a compressor is a great thing to have. I lived with a hand pump for years, then just a tank for a few years, then added a Shoebox later on. I can't say enough good things about the Shoebox, and having your own source fo air is great - but if I had a fire station that would fill for next to nothing, I would not own a compressor . . .
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Thanks
A lot to take in and consider. So how do you figure how many fills i would get with the ci tanks?
AOA has a calculator, but it asks cu.ft.
https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/Tanks/FillCalc.html (https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/Tanks/FillCalc.html)
So the tanks need to hold the 4500 psi to be of any use sounds like. Im just going to have to talk with those shops, and fire houses in order to make a decision.
The pump is exhausting, no doubt im out of shape. I shot about 100 shots and pumped 3 refills and im feeling it still. Mostly in my arms.
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Shoebox and a quiet type first stage compressor such as the California models. The shoebox has to be fed compressed air. I have used on voe many years. Very good manufacturing and engineering on them.
I would check Aliexpress if you are going to fill yourself. Much lower price on SCBA Bottles. ;)
Knife
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If you should decide on this air tank don't buy the fill adapter till you check with the dive shop. I had the adapter screwed in ready to use and they removed it and used their own setup. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AF61IL4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AF61IL4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
This is the adapter. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ECJA6UO/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ECJA6UO/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
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Shoebox and a quiet type first stage compressor such as the California models. The shoebox has to be fed compressed air. I have used on voe many years. Very good manufacturing and engineering on them.
I would check Aliexpress if you are going to fill yourself. Much lower price on SCBA Bottles. ;)
Knife
Michael my F10 Shoebox shuts down at 4200psi, there is an adjustment on them but I haven't tried fooling with it yet, it shows in the manual how to adjust the output on them.
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I have no affiliation with this place other than they are 10 miles from my house and I have bought from them in the past.
They definitely have good prices and communication.
You would need a higher pressure reg and hoses but those are available too.
http://www.trademygun.com/Compressed-Air-HPA-Paintball-Tanks-s/2295.htm (http://www.trademygun.com/Compressed-Air-HPA-Paintball-Tanks-s/2295.htm)
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Are the china carbon fiber tanks any good?
I see some on ebay for $250-$330 for 60-88 cu ft 4500 psi tanls.
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Nevermind read up on them
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Anyone who knows me knows I'm a mid level enthusiast at best. I love enjoying this hobby without mortgaging the farm. I've not paid more than $250 on any single gun. I did trade a couple to get to my Sumatra.
The price of a carbon fiber 4500 psi tank just blows my mind. I would rather take my chances on a Yong Heng and fill guns directly.
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Bill I'll just keep using the tanks that I have, they still have a year left on the hydro on them so I'm sure I'll be using them beyond that for quite some time.
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Nevermind read up on them
I don't know what your reading, but they are not DOT approved. This matters for getting them filled by pro's only. They are UK approved, which is a more stringent testing regiment. So yes, they are good. Only sellers of Airtanks for profit will tell you otherwise.
Knife
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Wayne, I also have my tanks and my MKII compressor. My two aluminum tanks are great but a bit heavy for the road. I was able to grab a 30 minute 4500 psi carbon fiber tank at a steal of a deal. But it only has a year left of legal fill life. I will continue to fill it myself. The hydro test on it is only a year old so I'm not too worried there. Point is, unless I hit the lottery, I can't see myself spending $700 for a Great White. Just can't do it.
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So... here is a thought.
When you stop by your local fire department, ask if they have any "old bottles".
Many of my local FD's are upgrading and have the older 30 minute tanks to "dispose" of.
I work with a Volunteer Fire Chief, and another Fireman from a different county. Both keep promising me they will bring me a couple "old" bottles that are still technically serviceable by date... But they never seem to remember.
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Same scenario with a co-worker that is also a volunteer fireman. He finally brought me one... an outdated 60 min tank. Max fill pressure is only 3k. It will be used for some 2k guns I have.
Kinda neat tho... it came with the breathing reg and the back packer harness.
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So... here is a thought.
When you stop by your local fire department, ask if they have any "old bottles".
Many of my local FD's are upgrading and have the older 30 minute tanks to "dispose" of.
I work with a Volunteer Fire Chief, and another Fireman from a different county. Both keep promising me they will bring me a couple "old" bottles that are still technically serviceable by date... But they never seem to remember.
I got the same runaround from the Fire Chief of a town I do IT support for. I offered to pay or donate to their many fundraisers. Nada. He never said no but he kept deferring and I just stopped asking.
Thanks,
Taso
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They have a procedure to properly dispose of expired tanks. They must be careful to follow procedure. They are real sketchy about the liabilities of letting these expired tanks get into public hands. They're dealing with Federal regulations.
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In my situation, the Chief said they don't hydrotest their tanks after 5 years and that they just replace them. So the tanks I was going to get would have had about 10 years of life left from their manufacture date.
I apologize for not mentioning that.
Thanks,
Taso
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For as low as $300 you can get the china compressors.
I looked at the Air Venturi Nomad and the Nomad 2 compressors.They are only designed to fill up air guns and the Nomad 1 cost about $600 shipped.Very hard to beat and come with a warrenty.
I passed on the Nomad because Im thinking long term and I want to buy and fill a tank to travel with.
So I spent a lot more and ordered the Air Venturi twin cylinder compressor.
My point is if you are going to end up spending more then half the price of the cheapest decent compressor.Then you have to pay to fill up.
$600 will get you your own air independence.Shoot as much as you want.
My AT44s-10 is tuned and really likes the 1800-2800 psi range.I get 27 shots in .22 cal.
It is my goto sniper out to 100 yards.Im slinging 18grain ammo at 910fps.I have the short version non Quiet Energy
Use this tank fill chart,At the bottom is a chaft that converts tanks to cubic feet.Im looking for a 30 minute SCBA myself
http://www.calc.sikes.us/2/ (http://www.calc.sikes.us/2/)
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There’s an Airgun repair shop an hour from me, and when I first got into pcp’s I was doing my research and pricing for a tank. So, I call this guy, and sure enough, like most carbon fiber tanks, very expensive. But, he tells me he’ll sell me old fire fighters tanks for $50, but I can only go to him to get them filled, lol.
Fast forward 8 months later. I called on this kid that used to help me around my property when he was in high school. He’s from a family of firefighters, and he’s now a captain. I tell him about these pcp guns, and what they require to “power” them. He makes a couple of calls, and tells me to swing by the fire station and take my pick of whatever tank I want. They were upgrading to new, and they had a stack of about 10 used ones for me to pick. I could’ve gotten all of them, but to not be so greedy I only took one. It’s expired, of course, and what the fireman told me was his biggest group of folks that nab those are off road four by four guys, who like to pack air for their tires. He’s given tanks to these guys, like no big deal.
Now I’m thinking I should’ve grabbed three, lol