GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: USAFANG6799 on November 20, 2018, 03:42:23 PM
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SIG has made it's debut to air rifles.
https://www.pyramydair.com/air-guns/rifles/gas-piston-rifles (https://www.pyramydair.com/air-guns/rifles/gas-piston-rifles)
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2018/11/sig-asp20-rifle-with-whiskey3-asp-4-12x44-scope-part-1/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2018/11/sig-asp20-rifle-with-whiskey3-asp-4-12x44-scope-part-1/)
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If it can shoot I will likely pick one up. I have for to get one of those Nova freedoms first though.
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PA says a beech stocked ASP20 is heading my way!
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If it can shoot I will likely pick one up. I have for to get one of those Nova freedoms first though.
Yea they have most of it all including the price on entry.
Not too sure about dealing with AIM though.
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Too much to spend for something about which so little is known. I'll hold off and let others be the test market. They appear to have some really good ideas but there are just too few details out there - their site doesn't even have a manual.
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Too much to spend for something about which so little is known.
Yea that's what my gut feeling is telling me.
Agree with holding off for now.
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Thanks, Fang. I saw a review of this gun (UK?) but couldn't find who sells it when I searched further. Made in USA but wonder where the parts are from? I hope Sig has put some of their firearms quality into it. Guess we will get a review here? BTW, only one wood stocked left.
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I bought one of there clone 45's and took it back the next morning. a POS waiting to happen
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Those may look like a Sig but that's about it. This should be on a whole different level.
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There is lots of information on the ASP20 over at Hard Air magazine....
https://hardairmagazine.com/news/sig-air-asp20-air-rifle-technology-overview-part-one/
https://hardairmagazine.com/news/sig-air-asp20-air-rifle-technology-overview-part-two/
https://hardairmagazine.com/news/lets-see-how-they-build-the-sig-air-asp20-air-rifle/
I have been talking with Ed Shultz of SIG, and he is certainly proud of their new baby.... Reduced cocking effort compared to FPE is a big plus, IMO....
Bob
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The links Bob shared do give a LOT of good general information about the new Sig air rifle. I have specific questions which would need answered before I commit any money to them. Sig does not offer an email address for questions (or anything else) They do have customer service telephone numbers but I prefer email. They have their site set up to download manuals for their products but the manual for the airgun is not yet available. It appears to be a very innovative airgun but I still have many questions. I'm still on hold - in the meantime an old Diana 34 is still good enough for me. It has no barrel droop. If Sig thinks their method of lock up corrects barrel droop I don't think they really understand its cause.
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We will probably not see them here. The first thing that struck me was SIGs claim that barrel droop is endemic in break barrel rifles. That is just not correct. Some have droop but many do not. Hardly endemic. Advertising I suppose; very often inaccurate.
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Per BB's article, if the Whiskey scope is bundled at such a steep discount then I'll wait for that package to come along. Of course I could wait another 18 months for the adjustable stock to come along... it's like buying technology items, always some vaporware just around the corner....
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I've seen several arguments as to what causes droop, from breech block / compression tube fit to how a high mounted scope in relation to bore axis contributes to it. That Sig is making their own air gauged barrels is encouraging. I was a bit worried this was going to be a Made in USA from Chinese parts. The trigger is going to be a let down for a lot of folks who think 8 oz is too heavy. This one is a sporting trigger like on hunting rifles. Will Sig sell a separate trigger unit? Might be a good idea to have a back up before tearing into that limiting bracket. 😉 Well, I hope this one's a real winner. And the price is well under the FWB Sporter. Just wish it had a more conventional stock. Not a fan of the bottom cut outs. Oh, and iron sights. Yeah, old school here.
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I agree Redfeather, the heavy/lawyer trigger is a deal killer for me.
What could they be thinking.
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I think it is awesome that Sig is getting into airguns. It is great they are building their own rifles and coming up with new ways of doing things. This truely is great. It really is awesome one of the best firearm makers in the world has got into the airgun market and is designing and building their own stuff and not just putting their name on some Chinese junk and out for a quick buck. The ASP20 is just not something I am too interested in. I am not interested in anything gas ram or anything 20fpe. The trigger sounds good except that it can only go do to 2.5lbs. No doubt there are 9 people out of 10 who thinks this new rifle ticks off all the boxes and will line up to buy it so I understand why they built the rifle they built. For me I would like to see an American designed (and built, which Sig is accomplishing with the ASP20) precision spring rifle. One that is match ready that will be the TX200/HW97/LGU slayer.
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There is lots of information on the ASP20 over at Hard Air magazine....
https://hardairmagazine.com/news/sig-air-asp20-air-rifle-technology-overview-part-one/
https://hardairmagazine.com/news/sig-air-asp20-air-rifle-technology-overview-part-two/
https://hardairmagazine.com/news/lets-see-how-they-build-the-sig-air-asp20-air-rifle/
I have been talking with Ed Shultz of SIG, and he is certainly proud of their new baby.... Reduced cocking effort compared to FPE is a big plus, IMO....
Bob
Thank you for the links provided, I read them word for word. The common theme throughout the 3 articles and the review by Tom Gaylord and is repeated over, and over, and over again is innovation, ground breaking, revolutionary. We'll see. I want to hear what Mr. Average Joe has to say about it, not some for hire chamber of commerce type. Delivery dates keep being put back, and it looks like the one I'm interested in, the synthetic .22, is just some mythical creature with a who knows when delivery date.
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Was it just me or did PA raise the price on this item?
I had it on my watch list and got an email that one was available but it was for like $100.00 more than I remembered?
Maybe I just got it wrong.
ps; NOT eligible for discount codes / coupons ::)
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The current prices of $429/wood and $349/synthetic are what I remember them always being listed for. What's weird though is that they both have the Cyber Monday "DEAL20" banner on them, but the site won't let you use it. You might want to call them if you're interested...
UPDATE: The site DID let me apply the 20% coupon to a pre-order of the .22, but not to the in stock .177. :o
Was it just me or did PA raise the price on this item?
I had it on my watch list and got an email that one was available but it was for like $100.00 more than I remembered?
Maybe I just got it wrong.
ps; NOT eligible for discount codes / coupons ::)
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Ah I guess they sent a link to the wood stock. Which is odd because I had the .22 synthetic tagged.
Probably just a mix up.
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Had a synthetic .22 on pre-order since Sept. at AGD then the status went to out of stock backordered. I cancelled my order and got a refund. I didn't feel like waiting anymore and I lost the urge to have one right now anyway.
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Not a bad price for the synthetic stock...$280
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Where did you see it for 280?
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PA has them on sale for $349 with an additional 20% off. (They are such enablers.)
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Just wish it had a more conventional stock. Not a fan of the bottom cut outs. Oh, and iron sights. Yeah, old school here.
Yes, conventional sporter with iron sights, please!
There is lots of information on the ASP20 over at Hard Air magazine....
https://hardairmagazine.com/news/sig-air-asp20-air-rifle-technology-overview-part-one/
https://hardairmagazine.com/news/sig-air-asp20-air-rifle-technology-overview-part-two/
https://hardairmagazine.com/news/lets-see-how-they-build-the-sig-air-asp20-air-rifle/
I have been talking with Ed Shultz of SIG, and he is certainly proud of their new baby.... Reduced cocking effort compared to FPE is a big plus, IMO....
Bob
Thank you for the links provided, I read them word for word. The common theme throughout the 3 articles and the review by Tom Gaylord and is repeated over, and over, and over again is innovation, ground breaking, revolutionary. We'll see. I want to hear what Mr. Average Joe has to say about it, not some for hire chamber of commerce type. Delivery dates keep being put back, and it looks like the one I'm interested in, the synthetic .22, is just some mythical creature with a who knows when delivery date.
Yes, holding out on the average dude's comments! Come on Joe Rhea! Rip this thing a new one... or tell us how much you like it!
Would be awesome if Kenny Kormendy was still around for this one, R.I.P.
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I would like to try one. I cant keep up with what I already have. If one fell in my lap, Id be tickled to have it. I hope it is all that it claims to be and more. Their success is good for the airgunning community.
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PA has them on sale for $349 with an additional 20% off. (They are such enablers.)
I looked and could not see on their website where to actually order one! All I could do was get on the watch list.
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One left in Beech after just looking:
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/sig-sauer-asp20-gas-piston-breakbarrel-air-rifle-beech?m=4597 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/sig-sauer-asp20-gas-piston-breakbarrel-air-rifle-beech?m=4597)
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Im looking forward to some user reviews on this new gun. If it proves to be a winner, there is room in the safe for another springer.
R
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One left in Beech after just looking:
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/sig-sauer-asp20-gas-piston-breakbarrel-air-rifle-beech?m=4597 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/sig-sauer-asp20-gas-piston-breakbarrel-air-rifle-beech?m=4597)
There was 2 showing when I ordered mine. We will see how it does when it gets here.
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One left in Beech after just looking:
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/sig-sauer-asp20-gas-piston-breakbarrel-air-rifle-beech?m=4597 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/sig-sauer-asp20-gas-piston-breakbarrel-air-rifle-beech?m=4597)
There was 2 showing when I ordered mine. We will see how it does when it gets here.
I'm like Rob...I want to see some real world reviews from actual airgun buyers/forum members and not the big guys like AGD or PA so give us the real scoop when you get yours and some shooting time.
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I've got a Cometa Fenix 400 series in .22 caliber that I'll bring to challenge this young upstart! 21+ FPE, nice shot cycle with at least two solid ways to hold it for good accuracy. And of course the Cometa with the blond walnut stock is actually pretty compared to that nasty little ankle grabber that SIG put at the bottom of the butt stock. Isn't that what that hooked butt stock is about? Grabbing an ankle in a scuffle? Maybe I've been watching too many episodes of "Forged In Fire." SIG will never give the ASP 20 a stock that classic gun lovers like. In time somebody will be carving a more classic stock for this excellent action that will make us all drool. I hope SIG keeps building high quality air rifles and provides us in the future with a range of various stock designs.
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I use a butt hook stock on my PRS rifle. It allows you multiple height adjustments off a bag or fist, which is advantageous. I'm pretty clumsy but never caught it on anything.
I'd love to see airguns in more modern tactical style stocks like a Manners. Or a beautiful walnut with a Schnabel foreend and elegant butt. Or AR-compatible designs for PCPs. What's boring to me are the monotonous ambidextrous Beech CAM stocks we get.
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An AR style Springer might be interesting....
Bob
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An AR style Springer might be interesting....
Bob
Very likely not what you had in mind as the stock isn't at all adjustable, but break barrel, spring piston Hatsan Edge .25 cal in a Webley Spector tactical stock:
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I'm not really in love with the "tactical" look, personally.... but I can see the attraction in using AR grips and buttstocks for the interchangeability and ease of customizing to your taste.... All is takes is a trigger group machined to accept them.... and extend the main compression tube aft (with a rail for LoP adjustment) to slide the stock over it....
Bob
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Chronograph Results
Received my .22 rifle last week. Fifty pellets down range over Friday and Saturday. Another 50 fired yesterday morning followed by chronograph work in the late afternoon.
Four comments before showing chrony results. First, cocking effort is smooth and not too heavy. I'm doing it with one arm in spite of the fact that I'm old and weak. Kudos to SIG.
Second, the trigger IMHO does not live up to the "Matchlite" name. The pad of my trigger finger hurts more than my arm. In my opinion the trigger although it has a very smooth second stage and breaks consistently and crisply is a major deficiency because of the great effort required to get it to break. I'm hoping that the pull required will substantially lighten up as the rifle gets broken in. By way of comparison my RWS M54, HW90, LGV and LGU all had triggers that IMHO required a much lighter pull out of the box.
Third, barrel internal diameter is between .215 and .216 thousandths of an inch based upon the budget gage pins that I have. With but one exception, I needed to use a pellet seater to get pellets to fit into the breech.
Forth, dime sized five shot groups at 25 yards have been the exception rather than the rule so far as I'm still learning how to hold the rifle, fight the trigger, and use pellets (JSB Jumbo Heavy) that may not be the best for this rifle.
My bottom line with just over 200 pellets down the barrel is that this can be a really good rifle if effort required to get the trigger to break diminishes through use or a trigger job (which according to SIG SAUER customer service will void the warranty).
Note that my data differs from that published by Tom Gaylord earlier today. I'm not sure why the difference unless it has to do with chronographs involved or the fact that the rifle has not been broken in yet. I used a MagnetoSpeed V3 with a recent software update. The testing was conducted indoors at a physical elevation of 1400 feet. The temperature was in the high 50s (F) or low 60s (F).
JSB Jumbo RS 13.43 gr.
Maximum 853
Minimum 845
Average 849
SD 3.1
Ft/lbs 21.5
H&N Sniper Light 14.04 gr.
853
833
837
8.1
21.85
JSB Jumbo Express 14.35 gr.
832
824
827
2.4
21.8
JSB Jumbo 15.89 gr.
787
775
780
3.6
21.47
H&N Sniper Magnum 17.90
735
722
728
4.8
21.07
JSB Jumbo Heavy 18.13
722
709
717
4.5
20.7
H&N Baracuda Match 21.14 gr.
664
650
655
4.6
20.14
JSB Jumbo Monster 25.39
586
574
580
3.3
18.97
Best wishes.
The other Mark B.
PS - Yes, I adjusted trigger pull as low as it would go.
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Have you tried to adjust the trigger?
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My understanding is that the adjustment for pull weight has a hood over it to limit how far it can travel. It might be possible to adjust or remove this hood (certainly voiding the warranty).
The trigger on mine was too heavy, too, until I learned you had to push in the phillips screw to turn it and make the adjustment. Then it did lighten considerably, and was no longer the maker of sore finger tips. That said, I haven't done any extended shooting yet, due to travel, work, and early evenings. Only about 20 shots off the back porch to see if it was sighted in, and a couple shots at some spinners for fun.
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Tom Gaylord covered this in today's air gun blog on PA.
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Mine was delivered last night. I did't go outside with it yet, as is 38 degrees and raining. Initial impressions are that it is big, but I was shooting my R7 2 nights ago so it may just be perspective. I like the weaver rail, mounted my Leupold 6.5-20x on it. I stepped out on the porch to rough in the scope at a can in the leaves and it was loud. I think the 7.9 crosmans were supersonic. I brought it in the house and was shooting at 10 yards with JSB 10.5 and H+N Barracudas. It definitely liked the Barracudas, they were boringly accurate at that range. It still seems loud, and was burning some oil at times. Not an all day plinker, the recoil is noticible after 100 shots or so. Towards the end of the session accuracy dropped off. I checked the stock screws and they had all loosened between 1/2 and 1 turn. I hope it clears up soon so I can shoot it at 30 and 40 yards to get a feel for it.
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I think the 7.9 crosmans were supersonic
Holy cow way to break it in :D
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My understanding is that the adjustment for pull weight has a hood over it to limit how far it can travel. It might be possible to adjust or remove this hood (certainly voiding the warranty).
The trigger on mine was too heavy, too, until I learned you had to push in the phillips screw to turn it and make the adjustment. Then it did lighten considerably, and was no longer the maker of sore finger tips. That said, I haven't done any extended shooting yet, due to travel, work, and early evenings. Only about 20 shots off the back porch to see if it was sighted in, and a couple shots at some spinners for fun.
I wonder if adding a trigger shoe would help make the trigger feel lighter?
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My understanding is that the adjustment for pull weight has a hood over it to limit how far it can travel. It might be possible to adjust or remove this hood (certainly voiding the warranty).
The trigger on mine was too heavy, too, until I learned you had to push in the phillips screw to turn it and make the adjustment. Then it did lighten considerably, and was no longer the maker of sore finger tips. That said, I haven't done any extended shooting yet, due to travel, work, and early evenings. Only about 20 shots off the back porch to see if it was sighted in, and a couple shots at some spinners for fun.
I wonder if adding a trigger shoe would help make the trigger feel lighter?
I lightened mine all the way, and then set the travel to a long first, short second stage, and shooting became much better. Now if the travel adjustment would just stay put, it would be golden. This morning, after re-adjusting again, the travel screw was moving about 1/4 turn per shot. After only 2 shots, it went from 1 turn out, to 1.5 turns out, with noticeable change in the travel. Still waiting on Sig's "24 hour" response for several days now.
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Hey guys go back a page and see the results I got chronograping a handful of different pellets. As you may note power is down compared to results Tom Gaylord got with his .22.
I'm hoping some other .22 ASP20 owners will chrornograph their guns and share results. If their power is up to spec, I'll need to send my gun in for repair/replacement.
BTW: I talked with SIG earlier in the week trying to get stock and trigger guard screw torque specs. I discovered they did not have them and they would not share them if they did. When I asked Customer Service how to proceed when screws loosened up, the rep said I should send the gun in for repair as SIG does not want us working on air rifles.
Lest I forget, I checked in with Tom regarding torques specs. After laughing his behind off he shared that he did not see a torgue wrench in use when he saw guns being assembled at the factory.
Finally, the SIG customer service rep kept telling me that the rifles are produced by a third party in a foreign country. He stayed with that story till I told him I saw pictures of the rifle being assembled in their U.S. factory.
I think we're going to have problems with customer service till they train the reps or gets lots of phone calls for support and are forced to learn about the rifle.
Best wishes.
The other Mark B.
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Good grief!
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Good grief!
+1 The more I read, the more I think I'll hold off on the ASP20. I'm wondering how long it'll be before we see an ASP20 refurb on the PA website?
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Hey guys go back a page and see the results I got chronograping a handful of different pellets. As you may note power is down compared to results Tom Gaylord got with his .22.
I'm hoping some other .22 ASP20 owners will chrornograph their guns and share results. If their power is up to spec, I'll need to send my gun in for repair/replacement.
BTW: I talked with SIG earlier in the week trying to get stock and trigger guard screw torque specs. I discovered they did not have them and they would not share them if they did. When I asked Customer Service how to proceed when screws loosened up, the rep said I should send the gun in for repair as SIG does not want us working on air rifles.
Lest I forget, I checked in with Tom regarding torques specs. After laughing his behind off he shared that he did not see a torgue wrench in use when he saw guns being assembled at the factory.
Finally, the SIG customer service rep kept telling me that the rifles are produced by a third party in a foreign country. He stayed with that story till I told him I saw pictures of the rifle being assembled in their U.S. factory.
I think we're going to have problems with customer service till they train the reps or gets lots of phone calls for support and are forced to learn about the rifle.
Best wishes.
The other Mark B.
Mine clocked in at 815fps with 15.89gr jsb - right at 23fpe.
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Mine is shooting pretty good. I chronographed a few pellets. JSB 10.4 are going between 890 and 900. 8.4 are going 1020-1030. I was mostly shooting the 10.4's today at 30 and 40 yards. It liked Both the JSB 10.4 and H+N barcudas. The 8.4 and cpl 7.9 had a lot of flyers. The 10.5 crosmans were stringing vertically and were very hard to load.
I won't post groups or claim any super groups, as I don't have a benchrest. I was shooting from a seated field target position at 30-45 yards, and then kneeling and standing between 10 and 20 yards. I would get 3 or 4 touching on the spinner, then throw one outside the group, not unusual for me no matter what I'm shooting. It seems like it will do as long as I get a good hold, it seems to like being supported right at the logo on the forend, and a firm grip with the right hand.
The stock screws stayed tight today. I adjusted the trigger to the minimum weight out of the box, and would say it is okay but not great. It creeps a little on the second stage compared to my Weighrachs, but is better the my CZ550 when not using the set trigger. It seemed unpredictible the first day, but better today as long as I didn't think about it too much.
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Good grief!
+1 The more I read, the more I think I'll hold off on the ASP20. I'm wondering how long it'll be before we see an ASP20 refurb on the PA website?
won't be long...
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I want to root for Sig but they've had a terrible track record with new models of firearms, their early 1911s, MPXs, etc. were really nice looking but had recalls. And of course the 320 fiasco (don't drop it).
Here's a funny Patrick Kelly video, he takes a new 320 to a steel match and it has issues out of the box:
https://youtu.be/B8aG371orTM
(Granted, guns need breaking in but if it's meant to be the military's weapon of choice it probably should be as reliable as... a Glock.)
Hopefully the next run of Sig ASP's correct all these issues, I think they are proactive and good people but I hate being their unpaid beta tester. Appreciate this thread, I almost bought one.
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Hey guys go back a page and see the results I got chronograping a handful of different pellets. As you may note power is down compared to results Tom Gaylord got with his .22.
I'm hoping some other .22 ASP20 owners ........... the reps or gets lots of phone calls for support and are forced to learn about the rifle.
Best wishes.
The other Mark B.
Mine clocked in at 815fps with 15.89gr jsb - right at 23fpe.
Thanks for the data. Any others with .22 data to share?
Best wishes.
The other Mark B.
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I would like to see 50 yard groups. :D
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I would like to see 50 yard groups. :D
Yes, Tim, precision at a distance is what counts in the end. I want a magnum, and unless someone wants to hunt hogs or large urban feral nuisances at close range, I want a magnum to shoot the distance.
50 yards starting, that is. If it doesn't group well at that distance, I don't even need to dream of 75 or 100.
So, let's see those groups! Thank you for contributing!
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RE: Spoke with SIG Sauer today in regards to my ASP20 in .22
For those that have been following this thread you'll recall that my .22 ASP20 rifle is averaging 21.5 foot pounds or so versus the 23 foot pounds advertised. You'll also recall that my chronograph results do not match those published by Tom Gaylord in his blog.
I called SIG Sauer customer service today and reported the power issue and the fact that the gun's action is moving up and down within the stock. The latest issue BTW first occurred yesterday when the gun suddenly lost zero. Unfortunately, point of impact was still 4 to 6 inches below the point of aim after max scope elevation was dialed in. I did not discover the movement until taking the gun to my workbench where the action suddenly snapped back into place with just a bit of pressure.
Customer Service said I could send the gun to them and they would inspect it. They also gave me the option of contacting Pyramid Air. I chose that latter and ended the call, but a short time later SIG called me back.
The customer service person had a series of questions from the airgun people hidden within the bowels of SIG. Questions included my chronograph results (which I verified using a second chronograph today), temperature (today's was 65 degrees F), distance from end of suppressor to chronograph sensor, and the like.
SIG advised that power would decrease by 1 foot pound for every 10 degree drop in temperature and that my gun was factory tested at 70 degrees F. SIG also shared that the factory test of my gun based upon records that they save was 23 foot pounds with a pellet weighing around 14.5 grains. They then suggested I retest the gun with a pellet around that weight. Fortunately, I had tested JSB Jumbo Express pellets (14.35 grains) earlier. I shared the test results with them.
SIG then said they would like me to send them the gun for inspection and that I would receive an email with return details shortly.
I learned a few other things. First SIG is going to publish torque specs for APS 20 stock bolts shortly. The specs will be for the bolt on each side of the stock and the forward trigger guard bolt, but +++NOT+++ the rear trigger guard bolt. The rear bolt goes into the stock (and over tightening can crack the stock) while the front bolt actually goes into the action.
Second, some of the SIG airgun people supposedly watch this forum closely. Likewise for the Airgun Nation forum. I found this out when I suggested that they share the torque data on both forums in addition to their normal channels.
Third, SIG +++DOES+++ expect us to check stock bolt tightness (but not the rear trigger guard screw tightness) contrary to advice I received from SIG customer service last week. As some may recall, I was told back then to send the gun in for service when bolts loosen up. Kudos for SIG in recognizing that such was not the best advice for air rifle owners.
Note that I could probably have asked Pyramid Air to simply replace my rifle as it does not meet published specs, plus the action moves up and down within the stock. SIG however, went out of it way to call me back on their own initiative and to ask detailed questions about rifle performance and circumstances surrounding the chronograph testing I conducted. For that reason, plus the fact that the rifle is a new design just released to the market, I believe it best to deal with SIG directly.
Moan and groan BTW
I'm maintaining the belief even if turn around time is two weeks or so as written in their return information which just arrived via email. 😂
I'm looking forward to see the results of SIG inspection activities when the air rifle is returned. Finally, I'm glad to see that SIG is taking this air rifle model seriously when an issue is reported.
Best wishes.
The other Mark B.
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Well, that does sound a bit better. One thing bothers me though- 1 fpe per 10 degrees drop in temp below 70? They probably ought to rethink that! If I can expect a GAS PISTON rifle to descrease power by up to 7 fpe in 0 degrees, well, I got these SPRINGERS that don't!
Surely they mentioned that in error.
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Gas piston will, indeed, lose a bit of performance according to temperature.... However, I think that 1 FPE per 10*F is incorrect.... The pressure inside the ram will only decrease by (10/530) = 1.9 % for each 10*F the temperature drops.... That is more like about 0.4 FPE per 10*F, by my calculations.... unless there is also some effect coming from the lubes used....
Springers, of course, can be effected by lubes thickening as well.... depending on what is used on the spring and piston....
Bob
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If I lost 1 foot pound per 10 degrees temperature drop I would have cut slingload on springers a long longtime ago. It was a Chinese springer that reeled me in to begin with. I don't even think .4 fpe sounds right, from 70 degrees.
I could see it happening in very cold weather, but I doubt it even becomes a factor until the temps dip to a certain point to start from. Like mid to late fall or early winter.
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Well, now you keep sending me that click bait and I wont get my work done....! :P
But, I got to ask. You commented how little effect temperature has on the muzzle energy of a springer.
What about a PCP?
(And I understand there is a big difference for CO2.)
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It definitely effects spring guns but not until it dips quite abit. Not enough temp drop in winter here in cumberland county for me to notice a drop in power.
Pcp i dont think the powerdrops so much as pressureand shots. I wouldnt know personally.
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RE: ASP20 trigger pull, accuracy and return to factory
I have about 400 pellets through the rifle. Trigger pull has eased up considerably but is still too heavy for my tastes. In fact, the pull is now the major factor in my accuracy with this rifle.
On a more positive note, I see that the ASP20 has potential for entry in air rifle bench rest matches if I get a bit more strength in my arm and trigger pull lightens up some more. Unfortunately, current trigger pull keeps the rifle IMHO from being on par with Walther LGV/LGU and TX200 rifles in bench rest matches.
I got an RMA number and FedEx label from SIG via email. As some may recall, my chronograph numbers match neither the factory specs or Tom Gaylords findings.
I dropped the gun off this morning at FedEx. According to the RMA email, I can expect a turn around of 4 to 6 weeks (ouch). I'm hoping that they'll jump on the gun as soon as it arrives since it is a new model, but.........
I'll work with my .177 LGV and .22 Redwolf HP while waiting for the return.
Speaking of the LGV....I put a new Timbum spring in it and it now cocks harder than the ASP20. I haven't measured effort required but I thought I ought to mention it and the fact that I'm now shooting JSB Monster Diabolo (13.43 gr) pellets rather than 10.3 gr pellets. Me thinks I need to do a chronograph session.
Best wishes.
The other Mark B.
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I shot my ASP20 in the local field target match today. The rifle performed fine, I just hadn't spent enough time getting a range card sorted out for it and learning the wind drift. I have been shooting an HW97 at 12 ft lbs for a few years now in WFTF class. I shot hunter class today for a change. Today early on I was compensating too much for wind that I didn't have to at this power level. I had some issues getting the hold sorted out for the elevated targets. Even so, I shot the same percentage as I do with my normal rifle. I think this rifle will do just fine as a hunter class AAFTA rig.
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Mark B,
I wonder if your altitude is affecting FPE; and why no one has mentioned it? I would have thought that 1400 feet might matter more than the temperature being 20 degrees "too low".
Besides, if temperature is a factor then shooting the gun rapidly over the crony, should show velocity rising over a series of ten shots.
What about the fact that air density is higher when cold? That should increase velocity because a larger mass of air is compressed on firing.
Unless this SIG depends on a little dieseling, and at 50F, the glowplug just isn't warm enough to get things lit :)
Even if SIG was too generous with the piston lube, and the problem is the grease is stiff when cold, that should thin out fast with repetitive shooting; unless you are in an air cooling gale.
One last point; when an air rifle is specified as 23 ft.lb, what is the tolerance on that? It can't be zero; unless clearly stated as 23 ft.lb minimum. This is just like with engines. Some perform over nominal, some under...
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I produce product reviews for Sig Sauer, I should check one of these out!
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Cool the more we know the better...
That is if you can get one. Still waiting!
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Here is a 50 yd group. 4 were less than 1/2". AA 16 gr. that had a 794 on my chrony and energy 22.4. Using a UTG 3-9 scope that has fairly thick reticle. Not an excuse as this is very good for me. Had several 1" @ 50 and 1 @ 75 that was 8 out of 10 for 1". Have about 100 pellets shot so far and trigger pull is a little less than 2#.
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I'm liking what I hear about this gun and so am just posting so I can monitor this thread. Thanks guys!
I hope Sig follows up on this product.
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I know this thread is a little dated, but chrony numbers were aske for and I finally got my ASP20 in .22 caliber and ran a few across the Chrony.
It averaged just shy of 24 ft. lbs.
H&N FTT (14.66 gr) Avg of 853 fps with a Std Dev of 3.81
JSB Jumbo Heavy (18.13 gr) Avg of 752 fps with a Std Dev of 4.7
It was a little loud at first with some dieseling from the factory oils I suppose. I did clean the barrel before shooting but it had a light coat of dark colored oil and cleaned easly. I think some of that was from AoA 'testing' the gun before shipping.
I did not find the trigger too heavy and still havent adjusted it any. Dont have a trigger pull test thingy but I would guess somewhere a little over 2lbs of pull.
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Here a few of my chrony figures. Mine is a lot more accurate than I am. not unusual for me to get 1/2" groups @ 30 yds and have had some that were one ragged hole.
Pellet wt. vel. std.
Beeman field Target 14.66 865 3.7
Air Arms 16 830 7.3
Air Arms 18 770 2.9
Crosman HP 14.4 870 6.4
Poly Red Tip 16 814 7.2
Have some others but can't get to the info at this time. Shoot and enjoy.
As my pastor told me years ago--" Shoot straight and give God the Glory"
Don