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All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Big Bore AirGun Gate => Topic started by: rsterne on November 02, 2018, 04:31:14 PM

Title: Lyman 257420 BT HP
Post by: rsterne on November 02, 2018, 04:31:14 PM
If you are interested in having NOE produce moulds for this bullet, please add your name to the following thread....

http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php/topic,2676.0.html (http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php/topic,2676.0.html)

Bob
Title: Re: Lyman 257420 BT HP
Post by: Prouzy on November 02, 2018, 06:53:18 PM
Great, nice work Bob! This is a very interesting offering/addition to this caliber for AGs.
Title: Re: Lyman 257420 BT HP
Post by: T3PRanch on November 02, 2018, 07:04:49 PM
I was finally first over at NOE (after Bob that is). lol
Title: Re: Lyman 257420 BT HP
Post by: Hobbyman2007 on November 03, 2018, 09:33:59 PM
I’ve signed up for a 4 cavity. I will have to get the mold modified to have a bullet length just shy of .6” but you know what they say . If you want to play you have to pay .
Title: Re: Lyman 257420 BT HP
Post by: rsterne on November 03, 2018, 09:53:49 PM
Shaving a few thou off the back should be easy.... If this goes to a Group Buy, you could always ask Al to do you a custom mold where the cherry is stopped a few thou short of 0.6".... It can't hurt to ask....

I was duplicating the original Lyman mould I had here as closely as possible, except for eliminating the two lube grooves and tapering the gas check stub into a short boattail….

Bob
Title: Re: Lyman 257420 BT HP
Post by: Hobbyman2007 on November 04, 2018, 04:12:54 PM
Once I get it in my hands I’ll check the fit . I highly doubt .006 “ will make that big of a difference .
Title: Re: Lyman 257420 BT HP
Post by: tnt76 on November 04, 2018, 04:19:30 PM
A .308 version of this would be awesome to try.
Title: Re: Lyman 257420 BT HP
Post by: rsterne on November 04, 2018, 07:15:33 PM
Trent, did you ever hear back from Arsenal about the .308 Bowman?....

Bob
Title: Re: Lyman 257420 BT HP
Post by: tnt76 on November 04, 2018, 08:29:31 PM
Yes Bob, had a reply after you emailed on my behalf in which I replied to him and tried a follow up email, but now still waiting. I was asked what size mold, but nothing further.

Would you think Al may be interested in a .308 version but with HP? Arsenal don't seem to do HP's
Title: Re: Lyman 257420 BT HP
Post by: rsterne on November 04, 2018, 08:45:20 PM
One thing at a time.... Unless Al is successful  in coming up with a system to make RG pins at less than 0.20" diameter, none of these will happen, other than with a Lyman style pin in a single cavity.... I have sent him some drawings with my ideas, version one they had tried something similar, I'm hoping version two may be a winner, or some modification of that....

Bob
Title: Re: Lyman 257420 BT HP
Post by: Loren on November 04, 2018, 09:52:40 PM
Would something like this work?  I guess the challenge is getting a consistant fit so not flash is created.

(https://i.imgur.com/maR2dve.jpg)
Title: Re: Lyman 257420 BT HP
Post by: rsterne on November 04, 2018, 10:43:34 PM
I think the sharp corner where the Ogive meets the end of the RG pin might be problematic.... and also the steel pin having a different coefficient of expansion than the mould, plus the fact it has to tilt to release the bullet may cause binding (if too tight), or a casting flash (if too loose).... We are working on a different route....

I suggested a stepped (2 diameter) RG pin, but Al said they tried that and it was difficult to keep the end of the pin the correct temperature.... My second suggestion is to have the end of the RG pin similar to the base pin on a pellet mould (tapered), with the HP pin extended past that like you have drawn.... I haven't heard back from Al on that design yet....

Bob
Title: Re: Lyman 257420 BT HP
Post by: KnifeMaker on November 08, 2018, 01:24:40 AM
Can't see any reason the same system used in pellet mold wouldn't' work.


Barring that, Eric at HP Mold service is the Magic Man when it comes to HP's! ;) 8) 8) [size=78%]  [/size]
Title: Re: Lyman 257420 BT HP
Post by: rsterne on November 08, 2018, 02:26:17 PM
Yep, Knife, HP Mold Services is great.... I'm just trying to get it so that NOE is your "one stop shop" instead of buying a mold, shipping it to Erik, and adding $50 per cavity to the price to get his HP conversion (plus additional shipping)…. It could cut the price of a 4-cavity HP mould by more than half.... with the ability to change back to FN bullets (or Cup Point) by just changing the RG pins....

Bob
Title: Re: Lyman 257420 BT HP
Post by: Hobbyman2007 on November 08, 2018, 04:12:31 PM
I’d better up my mold budget for next year . A One stop shop with the ability to go from solid to HP would be ideal .i sure hope Al can pull it off .
Title: Re: Lyman 257420 BT HP
Post by: rsterne on November 08, 2018, 05:01:46 PM
Denis, post exactly that in the discussion thread at NOE, as encouragement to Al....  ;)

Bob
Title: Re: Lyman 257420 BT HP
Post by: Vee3 on November 08, 2018, 05:55:09 PM
Would something like this work?  I guess the challenge is getting a consistant fit so not flash is created.

(https://i.imgur.com/maR2dve.jpg)

That's exactly how I make my muzzle-loader bullet moulds (except it's for the base cavity, not a HP). Works perfect.
Title: Re: Lyman 257420 BT HP
Post by: rsterne on November 08, 2018, 06:17:54 PM
This is what I suggested to Al....

(http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/NOE%20Bobs%20Boattails/Tapered%20RG%20Pins_zpsxmsuycap.jpg) (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/NOE%20Bobs%20Boattails/Tapered%20RG%20Pins_zpsxmsuycap.jpg.html)

No word back yet on if he thinks it will work or not....

Bob
Title: Re: Lyman 257420 BT HP
Post by: Loren on November 08, 2018, 06:27:39 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/DCQkUmU.jpg)
Title: Re: Lyman 257420 BT HP
Post by: Loren on November 08, 2018, 06:38:53 PM
.... I'm just trying to get it so that NOE is your "one stop shop" instead of buying a mold, shipping it to Erik, and adding $50 per cavity to the price to get his HP conversion (plus additional shipping)…. It could cut the price of a 4-cavity HP mould by more than half.... with the ability to change back to FN bullets (or Cup Point) by just changing the RG pins....

Bob

Hands down I would buy a mold from Al and NOE before buying from another mold shop.  The problem is that NOE's business practice of group buys, inventory buys, only sell what is in stock and made at those times keeps me from buying more molds from them.  It is perfectly fine if that business model works for them, and all their machine capacity is sold out...those are certainly great business problems to have, but I think it does cost them some sells....As the old saying goes, you can't sell from an empty wagon.  ;)
Title: Re: Lyman 257420 BT HP
Post by: rsterne on November 08, 2018, 06:53:26 PM
Loren, I looked at doing it like your drawing, but that leaves a relatively sharp edge where the nose ogive of the bullet meets the taper on the top of the RG pin that I thought might be fussy in leaving a flashing at that point.... The pin position would be critical, too high it would bind, too low it would leave a gap and create a cone (flashing) attached to the nose around the HP.... That is why I have a short parallel section to the pin there, to give a bit of tolerance.... I'm sure Al will select and build whatever he thinks will cast the best, without leaving a flashing around the front of the HP.... and that will also release the bullet the easiest from the mould....

I agree that NOE's business model is frustrating at times, but they don't seem to have a problem keeping the mills running at full capacity, so it's definitely working for them.... There have been times I wanted a particular mould and it wasn't in Inventory, and not enough people to get it re-run.... If they weren't running flat out, I guess it might be easier to get one-offs made, some guys would probably pay a premium to get that....

Bob
Title: Re: Lyman 257420 BT HP
Post by: Loren on November 08, 2018, 08:12:50 PM
Yes that knife edge is a challenge.  If it was easy everyone would be doing it....lol

Title: Re: Lyman 257420 BT HP
Post by: Vee3 on November 12, 2018, 01:31:42 AM
This is what I suggested to Al....

(http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/NOE%20Bobs%20Boattails/Tapered%20RG%20Pins_zpsxmsuycap.jpg) (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/NOE%20Bobs%20Boattails/Tapered%20RG%20Pins_zpsxmsuycap.jpg.html)

No word back yet on if he thinks it will work or not....

Bob

I see no reason why that wouldn't work well, and I don't see anything that would be very difficult to machine. I hope the maker feels the same, as I'd certainly like to have a mould for this bullet. It has features that appear to make it superior to any other .257 offering I've seen.
Title: Re: Lyman 257420 BT HP
Post by: Vee3 on November 27, 2018, 03:52:26 AM
This is what I suggested to Al....

(http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/NOE%20Bobs%20Boattails/Tapered%20RG%20Pins_zpsxmsuycap.jpg) (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/NOE%20Bobs%20Boattails/Tapered%20RG%20Pins_zpsxmsuycap.jpg.html)

No word back yet on if he thinks it will work or not....

Bob

Did you by chance get an answer yet?
Title: Re: Lyman 257420 BT HP
Post by: rsterne on November 27, 2018, 10:53:32 AM
Al's been very busy, but I'll ask him next time we chat....

Bob
Title: Re: Lyman 257420 BT HP
Post by: rsterne on November 27, 2018, 08:02:07 PM
I just got off the phone with Al, and he told me he is closing in on figuring out how to make RG moulds for small HPs.... As soon as he is comfortable with his ability to produce them, he will move this bullet from a discussion thread to a Group Buy.... He was impressed at the interest....

Bob
Title: Re: Lyman 257420 BT HP
Post by: Hobbyman2007 on November 27, 2018, 08:09:21 PM
Sweet, just what I need an HP version of this bullet.
Title: Re: Lyman 257420 BT HP
Post by: Vee3 on November 28, 2018, 11:12:35 AM
Excellent. Thanks much for the update.
Title: Re: Lyman 257420 BT HP
Post by: Vee3 on May 15, 2019, 01:39:25 AM
Any word on this mould being produced?
Title: Re: Lyman 257420 BT HP
Post by: rsterne on May 15, 2019, 01:43:51 AM
Not yet.... NOE had a production problem over the last couple of months, but that has been corrected, from what I have heard.... and they are working through their backlog....

Bob
Title: Re: Lyman 257420 BT HP
Post by: KnifeMaker on May 17, 2019, 06:07:04 AM
hoping they can get back on track and offer this mold. 8)


Knife
Title: Re: Lyman 257420 BT HP
Post by: rintafile on May 17, 2019, 10:27:01 AM
Not yet.... NOE had a production problem over the last couple of months, but that has been corrected, from what I have heard.... and they are working through their backlog....

Bob

Do You know which kind of problems? Because CB forum has plenty of NOE's group buys for inventory molds...Maybe some new tooling issues...
Title: Re: Lyman 257420 BT HP
Post by: rsterne on May 17, 2019, 12:26:20 PM
I can only assume that they are having some problems perfecting the thin RG style pins, as the first bullet to use these has also been delayed.... That is only a guess.... Al is very fussy and wants to make sure his moulds are easy to use for everyone, not just expert casters....

Bob