GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Benjamin Airguns => Topic started by: PA1911 on August 16, 2010, 10:41:37 PM
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Hey folks,
I hope nobody thinks Im beating this Benji XL stuff into the ground. I am wondering what kind of accuracy can be expected from these rifles? What are you all getting as far as accuracy and at what ranges? I also know that a rifle is only as accurate as its shooter.
Ive been wanting to shoot in the 30 yard bench rest matches here on the forum but I dont think I would fare to well with it at the moment.
I realize that with only 500 pellets through my rifle that the rifle is still breaking in and Im still learning how to shoot it. Also I know a tune should improve performance as well as continued pellet testing.
I guess Im just curious about the best accuracy obtainable with my XL1500.
I think sometimes I expect too much, just wondering what you all think about the accuracy of your XL.
Thanks for putting up with my questions :-[
PA1911
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My .22 XL is bone stock and is shooting ragged hole groups at my 30 yard sight in distance with several different pellets. Right now I'm using the 18.1 gr JSB domes. I'm chomping at the bit for squirrel season to open so I can start whacking nutters :)
Jeff
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DANG SHAWN COME ON DUDE GIVE US A BREAK >:( >:(!!! You know I'm just teasing ya Brother RIGHT :P!!! Mine at 20yd's is one large ragged hole 10 shot's(drill's thru a 1 1/2" board) from a solid rest. At the shoot saturday I shot a 10 string at 40yd's with just my hand resting on my saw horse an it was about 1 3/4"(really tight 1" with two that opened it up) an clay bird's hanging on tree limb's at like 45yd's didn't stand a chance off hand. In Gary's son Tracy's hand's he beat the SNOT out of every thing he pulled the trigger on with it down to clay chip's at 45yd's laying in the weed's ALL off hand. For a magnum class AG they really seem too shoot very well.
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Great shooting. I can't get ragged holes at 15 yards.
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Have you chrony tested it ?? If not then that should tell you quite a bit.
Jeff
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Yes I have chrony tested it. I posted some numbers in my other thread. My most accuarate pellet so far is the H&N Baracuda Match. They had a ten shot extreme spread of about 14fps and a standard deviation around 4. I'm still only getting at best one inch ten shot groups at 15 yards. 30 yards is about 2-2 1/2 inches.
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Well, sounds like it's shooting very consistent so it's gotta be something else.... I'm sure you'll get it sorted out as you spend more time with the gun.
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So far with my limited pellet selection They are pretty low spreads and deviations. My rifle does hate JSB exact heavies. I did a ten shot string over the chrony yesterday with the JSB's with an extreme spread of 127 fps. Im hoping it just needs more break-in time. I'm sure i need practice as well.
I guess I just get nervous when I spend this much money on a rifle. Its a lot of money for me. I guess I worry that it wont ever group well.
I appreciate the help. I look forward to hearing from others as well.
PA1911
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Shawn alot has too do with the hold Bro.,I mean I have shot PB's for ever(like longer than I care to admit)an these AG's drove me crazy when I started,no powder has ever been so hold sensitive in my hand's? They require the EXACT same placement of grip,cheek wield,pressure an follow tru for each shot. I've found just moving my thumb on my firing hand from wrapped over to up then along side too change the POI by at least a 1/2" or more in all different direction's!?! Ask my son MichaelM on here I cussed these thing's for a month or more, swore they where useless piece's of junk fit for nothing but play an bad at THAT!!! But I'd say if anything NOW they have helped even my long range shooting of powder rifle's an even my pistol tech. because I have become so atuned to my grip an follow up with them. Just try an find your gun's sweet spot, use the exact hold each time an relax don't allow your self to become frustrated,an give your self at least a month to learn these crazy thing's. You did start with a beast there.
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Shawn alot has too do with the hold Bro.,I mean I have shot PB's for ever(like longer than I care to admit)an these AG's drove me crazy when I started,no powder has ever been so hold sensitive in my hand's? They require the EXACT same placement of grip,cheek wield,pressure an follow tru for each shot. I've found just moving my thumb on my firing hand from wrapped over to up then along side too change the POI by at least a 1/2" or more in all different direction's!?! Ask my son MichaelM on here I cussed these thing's for a month or more, swore they where useless piece's of junk fit for nothing but play an bad at THAT!!! But I'd say if anything NOW they have helped even my long range shooting of powder rifle's an even my pistol tech. because I have become so atuned to my grip an follow up with them. Just try an find your gun's sweet spot, use the exact hold each time an relax don't allow your self to become frustrated,an give your self at least a month to learn these crazy thing's. You did start with a beast there.
I know you're right. I think I get a little impatient at times. I guess Im used to making standing shots on 8 inch plates at 100 yards with my AR-15. Makes it hard to accept 1"+ groups at 15 yards...from a bench! ;D I will agree that this gun is harder to get the hang of than the Big Cat and Whisper I had years ago. I have no doubt that I am a lot of the problem.
Im just trying to make sure the Benji is as good as she can get. I have a good bit of money invested (for me), I just worry about getting a dud. :-\ :D
I'm gonna keep at it, I've been through way worse ;D
Thanks again for the help
Shawn
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do you have the stock trigger?IF SO THAT COULD BE YOUR PROBLEM
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I am tack driving at 30yrds with beeman 14.66 double golds. Dime groops from a rice filled caldwell front shooting rest. I have made plenty of 60+yrd kills on dove,lark etc. This rifles accuracy depends more on the shooter than most. Not at all forgiving. however if you like a challenge, this rifle can be as accurate as any varmit hunter needs to be.
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My .22 XL is bone stock and is shooting ragged hole groups at my 30 yard sight in distance with several different pellets. Right now I'm using the 18.1 gr JSB domes. I'm chomping at the bit for squirrel season to open so I can start whacking nutters :)
Jeff
Same here, with the same pellets,..funny thing I tryed the JSB in the early days and didn't shoot worth a "dang", this rifle needs time both for you and for it to get it right, but it will be one day :)
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With the factory trigger, seal and mystery oil in it, my XL1100 sprayed pellets and smoke.
I put in a Tuna trigger, a Maccari seal, cleaned and re-lubed, now it puts Predators into one ragged hole at 30 yards shooting from a bench.
Paul.
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Lollipops at 30 yards, one shot each.
:P
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What kind of hold are you all using? Ive been using a sandbag up front. Maybe I need to try something else?
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My XL likes a nice firm hold with my left hand grasping the forearm stock right in the middle and the butt pulled tight into my shoulder. If I use a light hold on my XL the groups start to open up.
Jeff
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Like Jeff's, my XL needs a firm hold like riding a magnum powder burner. Trigger hand pulling the butt into the shoulder, fore hand gripping right at the checkering, cheek tight on the cheek pad.
Loosen up either hand and the groups loosen up too.
Paul.
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I've noticed that a very light hold makes mine open up as well.
I just need to keep experimenting. I would imagine that shooting of a bag may cause some issues when I try a freehand hold, huh?
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Leave it to me to be contrary to others. :)
Most of my shooting has been one of two ways. Sitting to do paper punching, I rest my left elbow on a folded towel placed on the rail of my deck. I let the foregrip of the gun just rest in my palm. I place the butt snuggly but not tightly to my shoulder and a loose pistol grip. I try to relax as much as possible and concentrate on slow breathing. So, mine likes a loose, calm and relaxed shooting cycle.
The other shooting I do is usually standing while stalking critters. I try to keep the same loose and relaxed approach but it's harder to do with live prey and a moving target. But these are what my XL's respond best to.
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I also dont like the feel of the gun with my thumb through the thumbhole, feels too crammed. I actually put my thumb on the back right corner of the end cap.
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Mine's a lot like Daves, it likes a real gentile touch. All of the possible combinations of gun, seal, lubes, stance, hold, rest, mood, home/work stress, heat/cold, etc.,etc. all play into this and it just takes time, practice, and patience to eliminate the variables. If any two of us, that both had tack-hammers, switched guns, I'm pretty sure that both would have a problem producing the same groups they had while shooting their own. Its a journey. Like going up a mountain. You can circle the mountain and eventually get to the top, or you can go straight up and try to get there faster but will encounter a number of obstacles which may send you back down. With practice, you will eventually develop the skills necessary to run straight up the mountain.
The one thing in your posts that I would try to change is your thumb position. placing your thumb on the side may be causing you to pull inconsistently straight back on the trigger. A small amount of variation on your trigger can cause a great deal of variation on your POI. Not to say that your hold can't be sucessfull, but it would help to eliminate a possible variable.
pv
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"............The one thing in your posts that I would try to change is your thumb position. placing your thumb on the side may be causing you to pull inconsistently straight back on the trigger. A small amount of variation on your trigger can cause a great deal of variation on your POI. Not to say that your hold can't be sucessfull, but it would help to eliminate a possible variable. ..."
What I was thinking too, Uncle Paulie.
On stright grip (English) or even "pistol grip" stocks the hand is still off to the side of the stock. I find that I have to really concentrate to pull and follow through straight back, because I have a tendancy to naturally pull toward the palm of my hand.
This being my first thumb-hole stock, I too had trouble at first adjusting to the differant feel. But now, with the palm of my hand rotated more behind the trigger, I find I pull more in-line with the stock centerline. Also easier to pull back on the stock to get the firm shoulder and cheekweld my gun does best with, and still maintaine a relaxed, but firm grip.
Paul.
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After 250 rds, my Trail NP is still smoking a bit and only doing 1" at 12 yd with CPHP's. I can get 3-4 shots into one hole, and then throw a flier or two. The trigger has been replaced, so I think I'm still learning hold techniques and follow through.
I never thought shooting an AG would be so much harder to do consistantly than shooting a PB!
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Nick...When you get it right, you'll see an improvement in your PB groups. Just a little bonus of the AG affliction! At 250 rounds, that NP is still pretty green. You'll see a lot of improvement at around twice that much, as long as your seal is OK.
pv
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Hello everyone,
I got a little time to head out and try some of your tips. I tried my thumb through the thumbhole, it was a little uncomfortable at first but getting better. I also tried a firmer hold. I had been shooting with my stock on the sandbag. Tonight I put the back of my hand on the bag and put a fairly firm grip on the stock at the checkering. I think Im in the beginning stages of carpel tunnel and anything I do with my arm rolled over, palm up, really cramps up. It just makes me take more time between shots to calm down and rest my arm. I was able to get a seven shot group with Baracuda Match that were one ragged hole at 15 yards.
My groups were not consistent , some flyers, but I was tired, it was getting dark and I was in a bit of a hurry so my mind wasnt 100%.
I'll keep at it. So far it seems to like a firmer hold. If I try a real light hold my groups open up to around 2" at 15 yards.
Thanks again for the tips, keep em coming :).
Oh and Nick, my XL has about 550 rounds through it.. It finally quit smoking around 450.
Thanks again everyone
Shawn
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Good deal Shawn, seems more trigger time is paying off. You should have the gun dialed in and you to the gun soon now. I finally got some trigger time this afternoon. Took most of my guns out to put a few rounds through as many of them as I could. The XL1500 was still dead on and was able to smack lollipops and paintballs at 30 yards. The SS did the same. My XL1100 was a different story this time. Was all over the place. :( At 30 yards I was seeing a 2" spread. One or two on and one 2" off...
Noticed when I cocked it there was some side play in the barrel. I have the new washers made by Don.C I've got to take the time to lube and install. I think that and retightening the pivot bolt will get my nail driver back in shape. But there's serious accuracy available with these hammers.
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Thanks Dave,
I don't think I'll be hitting paintballs at 30 yards anytime soon :D but I do think things are getting better. At least I have a good idea of what I need to work on when I'm rested and have time to devote to serious practice.
I also wanted to ask, Are most of you shooting with your hand under the stock like the artillery hold even when bench shooting? It seemed kinda awkward to me at first (mostly because of my carpel tunnel). I would imagine though that if you dial it in shooting off of a bag, your point of impact would probably change when shooting offhand. Is this true?
Thanks,
Shawn
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IMHO you need to practice what hold you will be using the majority of the time. I put a folded towel down on the deck rail, rest my left forearm against it and just lay the stock in my palm. Yep, basically the artillery hold. Nice and relaxed and concentrate on breathing, heart rate and follow through. Also check the trigger pull and make sure its as straight back as possible. I've caught myself pulling to one side....
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Hey folks,
I did a little quick shooting. Put about 50 rounds through. I got some pretty good groups with the CPUMs. I had some groups with 4-5 shots touching but I always have flyers. Still need to get some good, hard practice in. My shooting sessions have been squeezed in between everything else so its kinda rushed.
So far shooting with my thumb through the thumbhole, though not the most comfortable for me, has been improving the group size. Also, a slightly firmer grip and pulling it into my shoulder a little have proved better than a loose hold.
Practice, Practice ;D
The Baracuda Match and CPUMs are still the best performers. Sp far the Crowm Magnums and JSB Heavy are not shooting so well.
One day at a time ;D
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The flyer's Shawn will stop when you do a tune on her an get a non-nicked up seal in it. Well I should mine did at least, an my seal was really not in that bad of shape over-all.
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The flyer's Shawn will stop when you do a tune on her an get a non-nicked up seal in it. Well I should mine did at least, an my seal was really not in that bad of shape over-all.
Hey Jay,
Good to hear from ya. Yeah, Im hoping the tune will help. I dont know how soon I get all the stuff I need rounded up to tune it. Slowly but surely :D
Will a nicked or bad seal cause flyers even if shot to shot velocity is pretty close?
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Yes they will, a nick in the seal can cause more than a frequent flyer. the trouble is you don't know when its coming. thanks david
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Yep like Bro.David said it just seem's to come at random time's an seem's to really show when a pellet is just a tiny bit looser or tighter in breech. Mine seemed worse after about 10 shot's at a fast pace(warmed up softer seal???) An like I mentioned my seal was not in real bad shape,nice enough that I kept it for an emergency one in my kit.Now the Beast will place 20rd's on target with no flyer's in the group(except the one's I know I done LOL).
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That makes me feel better. Maybe the flyers arent all from my technique. I hope I can pull off this tune correctly. The more I talk to you guys the more excited I get to start tuning.
Thanks Guys
Shawn
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Went outside to do some shooting off the porch (raining here). I put about 25 rounds through when I noticed one of the screws in the fore end of the stock was sticking out past the stock. It was about 1 turn from falling out. :o
I had used blue loctite on them but I must not have used enough on that screw.
I'll blame some of those flyers on that ;D
Check your screws! ;)