GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Projectiles => Boolit and Pellet Casting => Topic started by: Hobbyman2007 on September 21, 2018, 06:39:09 PM
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What are people using in .22 cal . I’ve got a couple moulds now that are doing well but can’t help but wonder if there’s better out there. Preferably under 45 gr. And capable of sizing down to .220”.
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Denis what are you shooting ? I have both the BBT mold in .22(NOE 217-30-FN) and the Magnum hunter pellet mold (NOE 217-24-RF) and they both work just fine for me. With my SPA M16 @ 42fpe the BBT's are extremely accurate and they also shoot very good from my modded Prod and DAR22. The Magnum Hunter pellet mold is very nice, I've only cast the lightest ones and most all of them come to 23 grains, I've shot these in my Prod and my DAR22 and they're very accurate in both guns. I'll be taking out the DAR22 this morning at sunrise for the squirrels using the Magnum Hunters. It sure is nice to be able to shoot a lot of pellets and not have to worry about spending the $20 a pop to get a tin of pellets anymore. The Magnum Hunters for me are shooting just as good if not better than the JSB 25.39 grainers in my guns. I also plan on getting the lighter pellet mold that will be in the NOE store as soon as they get them done.
These will probably be my go to pellets for hunting in the guns that produce 30+fpe
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1894/44059490834_9f3493ee84_b.jpg)
I'm having great results shooting these in 35fpe + guns
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/843/29517310238_a70902cc31_b.jpg)
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I’m presently shooting the .220” 31 gr BBT and have just received the .223 38gr Hill mood from NOE. Shooting these out of an Evanix K550 . I have a BT65 that shoots the BBT ‘s well also but the other bullets are too long to fit the mag .
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I really like how the Magnum Hunters shoot out of my DAR22 I'll be using them today in the woods, I'm going to be leaving in about a half hour so I can get there by twilight and be situated at my spot by sunrise.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1857/44752902501_b768287b17_b.jpg)
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Now this is just my opinion but I just can’t seem to buy into casting pellets . Here’s my reasoning , it’s cost . If I were to pay myself 20$ /hr I’d only cast 200 pellets . ( only because I’m slow ) For the same 20$ I can get a tin of 500 JSB pellets with great consistency and known accuracy . Casting bullets on the other hand is the same price per 200 but I get a much longer range out of them . Consistency and accuracy varies of course . I will get better and faster at casting and at that point I might change my mind on the pellet casting .
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This bullet has proven accuracy in many PBs, and a good following in airguns.... It is a copy of the Lyman 225107....
(http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/N.O.E._Bullet_Moulds_225-39-FN_GC_B2__Cust.Jpg)
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=24_117 (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=24_117)
NOE also released recently this design, in both conventional and HTC (powdercoat, grooveless) versions.... They are 0.045" shorter than the above....
(http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/N.O.E._Bullet_Moulds_225-35-RF_GC_BY5.Jpg) (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/N.O.E._Bullet_Moulds_HTC225-37-RF_GC_CA2.Jpg)
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=24_536 (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=24_536) …. http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=24_548 (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=24_548)
You should be able to size both the above down to 0.220" (in 2 steps) if you get the GC versions.... the HTC bullet, probably not....
I designed a heaver BBT, if you are interested, please indicate that in the following thread....
(http://noebulletmolds.com/photos/albums/217-37-FN-BT-/217-37-FN_-BT-__38_gr_Sketch.Jpg.Jpg)
http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php/topic,1127.0.html (http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php/topic,1127.0.html)
Bob
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Thanks Bob , that’s exactly the info I was looking for . If I had have known last week I would have ordered the top one while on sale . I’m going to check the inventory now .
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Hi Denis I thank you for sharing how things have gone working with cast... Certainly have the right power plants for the mid weight stuff.. ;)... I can understand the point about not doing pellets because it is not economically reasonable... Me I can not help myself it is about doing what few have done and that if you can pour something with some thin skirts, well you should be able to pour just about anything... well... at the aluminum foundry I made sand molds/cores at, out of about twenty tries I got one cast Kenworth Cast oil pan that was up to snuff.. :-[ It is more than about the challenge tho, I think it mostly is about the feeling of independence once you get it right...
Sorry I can not help much with actually testing of mid weight boolits yet... have a few .22lr barrels to be turned for my .25 Mrod but keep having to put it off... I do have the NOE 225-37-FN(gc) mold which is almost the same as the 225-39-FN9(gc)... There is a slight difference in the gas check shank... It does size to 220 well... but just have not sent any downrange yet... it is based on the Lyman 225-107 mold...iirc Pak Protector said they did well out of his Mrod with a T.J. Barrel...
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/N.O.E._Bullet_Moulds_225-39-FN_GC_B2__Sketch.Jpg (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/N.O.E._Bullet_Moulds_225-39-FN_GC_B2__Sketch.Jpg)
I also picked up both of the Lee 225-55-rf as they are cheap enough to experiment with... I plan on decking the New version as much as possible and then trying to come up with a way to cut them down post casting also...
pics of what I mean in this thread https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=117034.msg1125152#msg1125152 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=117034.msg1125152#msg1125152)
There was a followup thread by Ribbonstone in which he did cut the 225438 down in length and they did well I just can not find the thread right now... He used a tool that was very similar to the Corbin cannelure tool to do the deed while also knurling the round...pic of what he ended up with in this thread... https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=127073.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=127073.0)
I am also going to pick up some of the NAA 30g to see how well they size down and also Have a Marlin .22 mag barrel...
So in mid weight I am thinking you mean 35g-45g..?
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Yes about 35 to 45 grain would be good . Looks like I have a lot of reading ahead of me . That’s good , I promised my wife I wouldn’t buy any more Airguns . What I didn’t tell her was that I wouldn’t buy any more casting equipment. I’m looking for a temp controller now for my Lee pot . As well as a new set of handles .
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Wayne
Question for you,
On this mold, Magnum hunter pellet mold (NOE 217-24-RF),
are you sizing the head and what is the head diameter as cast?
Will these pellets fit a Mrod mag?
Tia,
Don
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If I was feeling better I would cast you up some and send you some of the NOE 37g... unfortunately/fortunately I had a pulmonary AVM embolized on the 7th and am still not quite up to snuff... have a minor bit of the lower lobe of my right lung that collapsed during the procedure... they call it minor atelectasis.. ;)
Not a huge prob and is small enough to heal on it's own but it is taking it's time...
I get the lee 6 cavity mold handles for Noe 2 cavity molds on amazon for just under 17$
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Don, the 24 gr. NOE Magnum Hunter pellet was designed to fit a .22 cal MRod mag.... and they are designed to be shot as cast.... Just like JSBs, the skirt is about 0.007" larger than the head diameter....
Bob
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Thanks KO,
It sounds like you have been rode hard and put away wet... :o
I sincerely hope, you heal up and get better quickly.
Thank you for your offer, when you get feeling better, we can get together etc.
Question for you,
Would these 37gr pellets work OK in a QB 79 or Gauntlet 22 air rifle
with Mrod/Gauntlet magazines?
I can only get 1005 fps for 14.3 gr pellet, and 830 fps for the 25gr pellets,
the heaviest I have shot so far, out of the QB 79, 80 ci plenum at 1500 psi reg setting etc.
I want to get a NOE brass pellet mold in 22 cal and 177 cal if possible, just not sure of the best weights etc.
I have bullet molds/sizers for all the 22 cal thru 44 cal CF rifle/pistols, I own and shoot,
and have several hundred #'s of lead from pure soft thru wheel weight hardness etc.
So I might as well add air rifle pellet molds also. ;)
Tia,
Don
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Bob
Thank you for that info,
I checked the diagram for this mold, but did not see the head diameter listed.
Can this mold be used to cast different weights using the pins etc?
Tia,
Don
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Yes about 35 to 45 grain would be good . Looks like I have a lot of reading ahead of me . That’s good , I promised my wife I wouldn’t buy any more Airguns . What I didn’t tell her was that I wouldn’t buy any more casting equipment. I’m looking for a temp controller now for my Lee pot . As well as a new set of handles .
[/Yes about 35 to 45 grain would be good . Looks like I have a lot of reading ahead of me . That’s good , I promised my wife I wouldn’t buy any more Airguns . What I didn’t tell her was that I wouldn’t buy any more casting equipment. I’m looking for a temp controller now for my Lee pot . As well as a new set of handles .
Pid from ebay + k type thermoprobe + ssr will cost around 40-50 eur.
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RKR , do you have a link ?
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This is a sweet set up with step by step instructions, if you shop around you can do it for about 50 bucks
https://www-instructables-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.instructables.com/id/Arduino-PID-Controlled-Lee-4-20-Metal-Melting-Pot/?amp_page=true&_js_v=a2&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCCAE=#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.instructables.com%2Fid%2FArduino-PID-Controlled-Lee-4-20-Metal-Melting-Pot%2F (https://www-instructables-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.instructables.com/id/Arduino-PID-Controlled-Lee-4-20-Metal-Melting-Pot/?amp_page=true&_js_v=a2&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCCAE=#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.instructables.com%2Fid%2FArduino-PID-Controlled-Lee-4-20-Metal-Melting-Pot%2F)
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Don you can cast 4 different weight pellets with the pins provided, one of them won't have a hollow base at all, I call them a flatback myself ??? I've only been fooling around with the light ones so far, they're very accurate out of my guns. Eventually I'll be casting the other weights to try them out too. Today I got my new mold for the 25 Hunters. I also got 3 red squirrels using the cast .22's (217-24-RF) in my DAR22. I was also doing pretty good shooting some shotgun shells at 35 yards with them. The first two I shot first shot but I choked bad on the third one and kept pulling to the left (I was sitting on a bucket too) and finally nailed it on the 5th try. ;D
Here's a picture of a hunter magnum that travel through the right size of a red squirrels skull through his right shoulder, through his chest cavity ripping a hole in his side, through the right rear quarter and settle next to its tail in the hide. At first I thought it just exited through the hole in the gut until I skinned and cleaned it.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1884/30977751758_2df0a50d3d_b.jpg)
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Shane I think I'll pass on that, I'm still using the caster I bought 40 years ago, it's a little on the warm side but it gets the job done fine ;D
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Wayne
Thank you for the info,
I was not sure about the info for the NOE molds.
I did not realize that you could cast different weights with this mold, so you can use pins to adjust the weights, great features........
what is the lightest weight, as I didn't see that info on the NOE site.
I'll get the brass mold, never use that type before, it has always been the steel Lyman types etc.
That is some good expansion on the head, were these pellets pure lead or hardened, what fps were you running?
I do not know precisely the dia of the QB 79 bbl, I'll have to slug it and get the info etc.
At what approx temp are you running, do you size the tail or leave it as cast?
Thank you,
Don
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Don here's the basic dimensions of the mold from NOE http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?products_id=5432 (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?products_id=5432) , the head size isn't shown here because of the software NOE used on Bobs original dimensions doesn't show up on the software that NOE used for some reason but the head size is .217 which in the end result measures the same as a JSB 18.13 with calipers. I think the skirt diameters are the same as a JSB too.
In this thread I explain how I use the pressure pour method with an enclosed ladle. https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=148514.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=148514.0) and also in this thread is a chrony test I used on the cast pellets.
For the particular mold in question I did have to bend the pin adjusters down ever so slightly to get the pins to fit tight so that there wasn't any flash. After the first run I had to tweek them again but now they're right on the money.
In Bobs original post about these pellets his diagrams show all the dimensions before the molds were even built. On paper the light pellets show they're at 24 grains but in reality using the pure lead like I do they're 23 grain. I haven't cast the other size ones yet but I will eventually.
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Thank you Wayne
I'll get the brass 4 cavity mold,
On the options section,
they have drill for probe? What is that?
I'll have to break out the casting stuff....... ;D
Tia,
Don
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Don don't mark my word but I think that a drill for the optional temperature probe, Bob Sterne can tell you for sure.
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Yes it is for that purpose.
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Have you cast with a 4 cavity brass mold? If you haven't I'd suggest a 2 cavity brass or 4 cavity aluminum. 4 cavity brass will never keep temp up with that low of volume. Plus it'll wreck your arm in a long casting session, they are heavy as h*ll
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Shane I've cast a lot of them with my 4 cavity brass mold with great success but the last two brass molds I got are 2 cavity because it's easier adjusting 2 pins rather than 4. On my 2 cav 217-24-RF I had to bend both pin bars a little bit to get the pins fitting good. I was out shooting them today and everytime shooting them it amazes me how accurate cast pellets can be. I've got to hand it to Bob he knew what he was doing when he designed this pellet. I got three more squirrels with them today.
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With the brass molds a good cleaning is really all I do before casting with a new mold, I do use my Zippo lighter to smoke the pins when the pellets start sticking to them, the naptha in the Zippo lighter fluid give off a good smoke for something like this. I've cast probably 800 of them so far and I plan on doing a bunch more soon for winter cause I don't cast indoors. My Prod really likes them too. I'd be willing to bet they'd probably shoot good in an Mrod but mine isn't .22. My .25 Mrod shoots the 25 cal Magnum hunters pretty good but I think my DAR25 shoots them better, it's very accurate, I've gotten dime sized groups at 40 yards with them.
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Thanks Guys
Wayne
IYO,
which would be a better choice, 2 or 4 gang brass mold and is there anything else I need to order along with the mold?
It has 20 yrs, since I have done any casting with the 22 cal CF mold, 2 gang Lyman,
and the 357 4 gang mold, I would cast an average 1500/2000 bullets per month,
I was into steel plate shooting with my 357 Coonan pistols etc.
Does the 4 gang hold enough heat long enough with proper heat for the pure lead?
I'll have to cast enough for the QB/Gauntlet, as it gets TOO cold around here during the winter time, even in the shop,
av winter temps inside run 20-30* on a bright sunning day, lots of good insulation and NO heater/stove.. ::)
Thank you for all the help, and that includes all the others also.
Tia,
Don
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Don they both have their advantages, the 4 cavity will produce faster once you get all the pins adjusted good but it does wear on ya after a while, I'm very close to 66 right now and just ten or twenty years ago I could have molded a lot more at a time without any fatigue, I am 6'5" and weigh 220lbs so I'm no little guy but the age catch's up with ya. After having the 4 cavity I more prefer a 3 or 2 cavity because of how much lighter they are. I think with a 2 cavity you have more of an advantage when it comes to sorting too because even using the pour method that I do I'll still get some bad ones but not near as many. Today I recovered another pellet from a big fox squirrel I got from the state land and I'll post a pic of it.
I shot him straight on in the right side of his head, it went through his head, neck, clip his heart and slashed all his right rib cage in half then ended up just inside of the stomach membrane, I couldn't feel the pellet but I knew it had to be in there so I used my metal detecting probe to find it.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1922/44823660142_4e280a478a_b.jpg)
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Wayne
Thank you,
I think I am going to LIKE that pellet, it has very good expansion......
I am going to have to learn you pouring method,
I have always bottom poured, ever used a scoop before, guess I'll look one up etc.
Thanks again,
Don
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Don, bottom vour works fine with a bottom pour pot. I use the RCBS lead furnace, and when pressure pouring, I simply lower the lead outlet amount and press the spru opening to the spout, and retract it enough to get a puddle on top.
Works very well with a two cavity mold. ;) Gets tiring with a 4 or 5 ganger. :(
Knife
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Curious as to shrinkage of pellet. Is the mold designed to drop .217 head pellets or is that the mold size so they drop closer to .215? My gun likes a fat head pellet, 5.52 or 5.53 mm. If they drop 5.50-5.51 mm I may have to pass on this awesome mold.
Could someone please get a micrometer on the cast head size for me and let me know if your using pure lead or an alloy with that size?
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Garrett they're the same measurements as what a JSB 18.13 is, both head and skirt! That's with pure lead and probably about the same if I was using tin in the mix as well. This question has been answered by Bob S many times over, I've checked personally with 99.9% pure lead more than once for both 22 cal and 25 cal and they're always the same as what comparable JSB pellets are.
.217 inches = 5.5118 mm for the 22 cal pellets
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Thanks for the confirmation Wayne, JSB shoots well from my gun, little tin should make it touch fatter.
I'll be gifting myself a 2 cavity brass for upcoming birthday present. I'll try to act surprised when I open it.
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Thanks for the confirmation Wayne, JSB shoots well from my gun, little tin should make it touch fatter.
I'll be gifting myself a 2 cavity brass for upcoming birthday present. I'll try to act surprised when I open it.
I’d spend the extra 20$ and get the 4 cavity. Makes a bigger pile of bullets in the same amount of time . Although in brass it would probably weigh quite a bit more .
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I think I'll get the 2 cavity from now on, there's that much less time getting the pins adjusted right. I do have a 4 cavity brass for the 250-27-RF however it takes much longer to get all the pins just right on it as well, once you get the pin adjustment bars bent right where you need them but it's not as much of a chore however after each use I take the mold apart for a thorough cleaning and then you have to reassemble it but at least all the bars don't need any tweeking if you put them in the same cavity you had them to begin with.
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I wanted a gang mold but would have to be in aluminum for good a casting session. Large block double cavity steel tire me out. From the little I've cast I can tell aluminum would probably cool down too fast with my cadence and small cavities like this. Personally like steel and have never tried brass so think the two cavity brass is best fit for me. Brass is snazzy looking too, will be an awesome present to self.
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T’is the season for spending money . I ordered http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=24_117. (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=24_117.) This should in theory stabilize in the 1:15 “ twist barrel in my Evanix . Also got the remaining sizing does I was missing in both .22 and .25/257” . Hope this one works as well as the 31gn BBT bullets .
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Adding a few % of Tin to the mix will make the pellets just a wee bit bigger, and most importantly cast easier as the Tin makes the lead flow better.
cheers,
Douglas