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Support Equipment For PCP/HPA/CO2 and springers ,rams => Support Equipment For PCP/HPA/CO2 => Topic started by: Luis Leon on September 15, 2018, 04:21:00 PM
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I've had my Hatsan Lightning compressor a week now. I did not immediately post because I've been busy. The outside of the package looked like it received special treatment from UPS. As you can see the outer wooden frame is missing one vertical and horizontal support. There was damage to one of the cooling fan shield bolts it bent and broke off the support wing on the fan unit itself (see photo). The manual was oil soaked and useless, luckily I had opened it to the spread for set up and was good to go. I was really miffed initially at Hatsan for not having a PDF of the manual online. They sent me a link and I also already have the replacement shield and fan in hand. Very fast service from Hatsan.
Set up was anti-climatic as expected. Filled coolant reservoir with distilled water, filled crankcase with synthetic compressor oil. Set auto shut-off to 4495 psi, auto purge interval to 15 minutes, installed deadhead at end of fill whip. Break in involved running compressor for 15 minutes with bleed valve open. Close bleed valve let compressor build pressure to set auto shut off of 4495 psi. Test passed. It filled my 45 min. SCBA from 3100 psi to 4495 psi in just over 15 minutes. Didn't check time to the second just roughly.
After doing the math on what my fills were really costing me, I took the plunge. Am very happy to be HPA independent.
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Certainly seems like a very nice compressor and it sounds like Hatsan took care of the issues quickly for you. Good to know. Keep posting on progress with it and enjoy it.
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Luis, look at where your coolant tubes come out of the top side of the tank. This will eventually be a leak point when the compressor vibrates, slushing the coolant. Dab some silicone caulk around these tubes.
Second, follow those tubes down to where they go to the cooling fan. Those tubes are right against the cooling fan protective cover. Over time that will chafe from vibration. I installed split wire loom around those tubes where they rub against that metal.
This next one actually happened to another hatsan compressor owner- apparently someone in the production line screwed down that coolant fan cover plate flat, not allowing the fan to vent out air. His temps sky rocketed within a few minutes. Check to see that your plate is above the fan at least 3/4” all the way around.
Lastly, between me and two other Lightning owners, the digital gages in these are off calibration anywhere from 300-500 psi. Get yourself a 0-5000 psi test gage that you can attach to the fill whip and follow the instructions on page 7 of your owners manual to recalibrate your gage. The instructions were written poorly, but if you study them very well you can make sense of what they are trying to tell you what to do.
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Augie, thanks for taking the time to post this information. I will implement your suggestions and will be calibrating the gauge on the compressor today.
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Glad to see you guys are into this compressor. Looking forward to more updates.
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Last night I calibrated the compressor gauge to my fill station gauge, very easy to do for this neophyte. Then filled my 45 min. SCBA from 3200 PSI to 4495 PSI in under 10 minutes. So two fills so far, I expect the compressor to continue to work flawlessly. The best part of the whole deal is that I can now shoot and experiment as much as I want and not be worried about how many fills I have left.
My “true” fill cost were $11 for the fill, gas $10 (60 mile round trip, bad traffic), 2-3 hours of my time = $70 (conservative est.) So at two fills in I’m at $140. I believe the compressor will paid for itself in two years. This was the crazy math I used to pitch my compressor to the wife... it worked!
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Great job, and feedback, Luis! What did you think of those instructions on page 7. Regarding calibration of the digital gage? Poorly written is an understement. I’m having trouble posting pics here for some reason, so what I did was make copies of that page and made additional notes on my findings, to better the instructions.
1. Before setting up your shut off psi for either a tank or gun fill- this step must be done BEFORE turning on the cooling fan switch. If you turn on the cooling fan switch first, then try and input a new shut off number, it will default to your last setting. I’ve learned that the cooling fan switch has a more important role than just turning the coolant fan on. It powers up the other switches as well. If you try running the compressor without turning on the coolant switch on, you’ll see what I mean. That is actually a good safety measure, and the girls voice prompting that all is good to start up is just icing on the cake.
2. After you go thru the gage calibration, the instructions make no mention of how to get out of the calibration programming state. To do that, just follow the shut down procedures of the compressor, and unplug the cord for around 10 seconds. Then when you power back up you are sure that everything is now calibrated and ready to start anew.
3. I made note that once your PSI or BAR settings are picked, you must hold the minus button down for a second or two to lock those settings in.
4.i was having trouble getting the gage calibrated at that last setting of 30. What was happening was the compressors gage was traveling faster than my remote gage, and shutting down at 4350 psi when the remote gage was only at 3900. So I tricked the compressors gage, by setting the shut off to like almost 4800 psi. When it shut off at that setting, my remote gage was at 4700. I slowly bled out air using the bleed screw till my remote gage read 4350, shut off the bleed screw, then proceeded with the last step of the calibration. As I sit now, I only have around a 40 psi difference between the two gages. Good to go for me.
Lastly, check for leaks periodically. I’ve only got around 3 hours run time since I got this in July, and the connection of the fill whip to the aluminum block was leaking. I blame that on vibration.
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Seems like a lot of work and extra money added to an already expensive piece of kit.
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Seems like a lot of work and extra money added to an already expensive piece of kit.
What seems like extra work or extra money?
@Augie thanks for posting your findings.
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Seems relatively straight forward. Ability to know the gauge is correct seems desirable. Glad it's working well.
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I've had my Lightning since Aug 28. The box was split, but the outer crate was intact. The crate was a pain to get into since I wanted to save it. The top must have had 75 or more 2" staples in the 4 corners. My manual was wet too, but it was obviously water and not oil. I didn't see any oil inside the box.
I'm the one Augie refers to above with the plate (Hatsan calls the plate a "heat shield") above the fan bolted down flat on top of the fan which prevented it from turning. There was no damage anywhere and not knowing any different, I did the setup and break in with the fan not running, but everything looked normal. Problems didn't surface until I tried filing my 66 ft3 45 min SCBA. Compressor hit the 195F max allowed temp in 22 minutes with only 110 bar in my SCBA and I shut the compressor down. I called the service number listed in the manual and left a message and then filled out a customer service form. It was almost a week later before I received email for Hatsan service with some elementary questions about the compressor that I didn't find really helpful after waiting nearly a week.
Comparing compressors with Augie and another Lightning owner, we found the fan "discrepancy". Hatsan service, almost a week later, confirmed that the fan on the compressor was not assembled correctly and advised that I correct it as shown in a pic they sent via email. I redid the assembly and it is now correct. Unfortunately, trying another test fill yielded the same results. Hit 195 F again but this time in 30 min with 140 bar in the tank. Fan made an improvement, but is apparently not the solution.
I've gone back and forth with Hatsan service and it seems like they have no idea why the compressor is overheating. I would've thought that somewhere between the people who built the compressors and Hatsan service, some one would know specifically what would make these compressors overheat beyond the patently obvious assembly mistakes. I'm frustrated and seem to be stuck with a compressor that doesn't work that has a warranty with a service department that either doesn't know why my compressor doesn't work or is so over whelmed with other problems that my problem is not getting much attention. and frankly wasting way too much of my time.
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Harold it stinks you are having issues with your new compressor. As it’s under warranty Hatsan should make it right. Would have been better if it worked right from the beginning. Also did you check to see if your coolant actually circulating through the hoses? Good luck, please keep us posted on how Hatsan treats you on this issue.
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Harold it stinks you are having issues with your new compressor. As it’s under warranty Hatsan should make it right. Would have been better if it worked right from the beginning. Also did you check to see if your coolant actually circulating through the hoses? Good luck, please keep us posted on how Hatsan treats you on this issue.
Yes, lol, he has checked the circulation. I only do an lol because me and another guy, between Harold and us, have suggested what seems like verything to check, even the hose routing to see if someone in the assembly line routed the hoses wrong. It really is too bad his isn’t up to par, his compressor, and that Hatsan isn’t jumping all over this trying to make it good.
Here are what I recall we suggested to check:
1. Coolant fan movement
2. Compressor fan movement
3. Coolant hose routing, and coolant moving thru the hoses
4. Water pump inlet vanes wide open
5. Oil type, coolant type, coolant to water ratio
6. No cover or debris on the underside of the cooling coil, causing lack of air flow
7. Air leaks/fluid leaks
I think that’s all the checks. If you think of anymore, throw it out there
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Last night I calibrated the compressor gauge to my fill station gauge, very easy to do for this neophyte. Then filled my 45 min. SCBA from 3200 PSI to 4495 PSI in under 10 minutes. So two fills so far, I expect the compressor to continue to work flawlessly. The best part of the whole deal is that I can now shoot and experiment as much as I want and not be worried about how many fills I have left.
My “true” fill cost were $11 for the fill, gas $10 (60 mile round trip, bad traffic), 2-3 hours of my time = $70 (conservative est.) So at two fills in I’m at $140. I believe the compressor will paid for itself in two years. This was the crazy math I used to pitch my compressor to the wife... it worked!
Yes, I was in the same boat. Mine was $9 to fill, and about 1 and a half hours of my time and on the road. I posted this somewhere, that no one seems to address, and that is not being on the road to get your tank filled means being on the road less. Less chances to get into an accident, especially if you’re in stop/go crazy traffic just to get an air tank filled. Having your own source of air also allows endless tuning of your gun, and endless pellet testing. Before the compressor, there were times I had moments to shoot, but didn’t cause I was too lazy to go drive to get my tank filled.
I could go on and on, but you all get the idea.
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Harold, it seems that thinking "they" should know remotely why something doesn't work is a bit much. That seems to be a bit of a stretch. Having said that, it will be interesting to see how this is handled if you follow the logical steps and return the compressor to Hatsan. I agree that shouldn't be needed and that they should have handled such an issue quickly and a week to respond does not seem to be acceptable. Following for more information from all with the Hatsan Lightning.
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I don't know nor have I read specifically who is making/modifying this compressor for Hatsan. I think there was a post (on AGN or somewhere) suggesting the real expertise for these compressors was at the AV service center (in PA ??), someone had even posted a name IIRC. If such an expert or expertise exists, isn't it time to get his recommendations? Am I going to have to do this myself (assuming they're actually involved with the Lightning and that they would even talk to me to begin with) ?
And the way Hatsans warranty works all I can do is request an RMA which they have to approve. That request was made Tuesday, September 4th and was acknowledged in an automated return email, but has yet to be approved or addressed in any other way. Hatsan warns you in the manual not to return the compressor to the address listed in the manual since it won't be accepted. They tell you Hatsan will supply the correct address for the return with the RMA number if and when its approved. Also don't forget this is a 100+ pound package to ship. I expect them to supply a UPS pickup label as well.
Meanwhile, I'm stuck in the middle.
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Sept. 4th till today seems like much too long a time to have to wait. I have interest in this compressor but have others I've considered as well so I haven't made a purchase yet. Will be watching how this case as well as other users reports progress before deciding on a compressor but at this time I am leaning toward purchasing an Airetex for it's apparent dive quality build and excellent drying system.
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Did my first op off today on my 88cu foot Airhog tank, since I’ve gotten the hatsan compressors gage re calibrated. From 3400 psi to a solid 4500 took 15 minutes, and the temp hovered around 140 degrees.
Someone recently posted about his fill whip exploding, due to a female brass QD. Looking at the end on the hatsan, it, too is brass. I’ll have to upgrade to SS
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Seems like an excellent fill rate, Augie. Appreciate the time to post about it. Curious if Harold has had progress with his issues. I really like the features on the Hatsan compressor but PA support for the AV is enticing as well.
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Funny you should ask. Hatsan service had me drain the radiator tank since they felt the coolant hose was disconnected at the pump. This was in spite of showing them a clip of the discharge hose having a full diameter stream while the cooling system was running. I never got an answer as to how this was even possible, how could you have a discharge when the inlet hose was not attached to the pump?? I'm a retired mechanical engineer, MS degree and 38+ years experience. Its this kind of question that implies Hatsan really doesn't understand what they're doing or asking you to do!
Anyway, I found the hose firmly connected to the pump and doubly secured by a zip tie. I tried pulling on the hose to see how robust the connection was and it didn't budge - suspect there is adhesive or some kind of sealant there as well.
Next issue service has raised - they have asked me to change out the temperature gauge on the suspicion it maybe "bad". The electrical connection for the temperature is in a box under the instrument panel and requires radiator tank removal for starters. I've asked them if I can pull the temp probe out of the HP head and see what it reads when placed in a pot of near boiling water. I have a lab grade mercury thermometer so I'd know the correct temperature. If temp gauge doesn't read the correct temp within a few degrees, then we can replace it.
I don't really want to take the compressor apart...... waiting for their next response.
Awesome fill time Augie!
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Certainly sorry to hear of the ongoing issues. Interesting idea on the temp probe. The Lightning seems to be a potentially very nice compressor (very similar to the AV in my view) and I had and still am strongly considering purchase of one. But things do need to work correctly or be corrected in a timely manner and you don't seem to have received that in this case. I'm sure many are watching how Hatsan handles this with you. Thanks to all who are providing information about these units.
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Bandg- I really like this compressor a lot. Having never owned a pcp compressor ever, I have nothing to compare this to, other than the specs on the other compressors and from forum reviews. This compressor mirrors the AV, but has a few special features that really make a difference. I would say, currently, and my opinion only due to Harold’s lemon Lightning, the only thing that the AV has over this is vendor support. Vendor support is huge.
If I had to do it all over again I would still buy this Lightning compressor.
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My local fire station fills my tank now so I don't have to purchase a compressor immediately. I would bet the Hatsan will turn out to be similar to the AV in reliability. I've read of problems with the AV and the Carette. Anything can have a failure. If Hatsan handles it well, all should be good and it is one I'm seriously considering-the price and features are hard to beat. Thanks for the ongoing updates and enjoy the freedom to shoot.
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Vendor support is huge......totally agree!
That's exactly what is so disappointing to me about my Lightning. Real vendor support appears totally lacking for any kind of problem other than remove and replace type problems.
After reporting I have a serious over heating problem with a new compressor, hitting max temp of 195 F in just 20 min, I wait 6 days and all I get then was an email with a comment about "check over your compressor carefully" which was about as useless as it gets from a help/support perspective. I don't know how Hatsan staffs their service department, but the tech I seem to be stuck with is slow and shows little to no concern about my situation.
I've disputed the full cost of the compressor with my credit card company since I've never had an operational compressor in the 5 weeks since I received it. At this point, I just want it gone and do not want it or another compressor coming back.
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I just orderd a Hatsan compressor form Field supply.com for $993.17 + free shipping. So I hope all goes well
That's the best price I've seen.
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I just orderd a Hatsan compressor form Field supply.com for $993.17 + free shipping. So I hope all goes well
That's the best price I've seen.
best price i've seen also....let us know all about your lightning...ship time, packing and of course its performance.
good luck ;)
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Thanks just got my tracking #
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I just orderd a Hatsan compressor form Field supply.com for $993.17 + free shipping. So I hope all goes well
That's the best price I've seen.
Thanks for posting this I will be using my credit cards price protection to get that price at Field Supply matched. Thanks again.
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Not good hearing of poor support from Hatsan. They really need to do better in that regard but I do like the design and features of the Lightning. I'll continue to watch until I truly need to buy a compressor but may step up to a dive quality unit unless this situation seems to improve. Thanks to all for reports on this front and please keep posting.
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I just orderd a Hatsan compressor form Field supply.com for $993.17 + free shipping. So I hope all goes well
That's the best price I've seen.
Robert, I saw that ad Field Supply was running. I hope I'm being paranoid, but the word "warranty" is never mentioned in the ad.
Of course the way the warranty is working for my overheating problem (NOT!!), it doesn't seem to be worth much more than a few emails with amateurish advice. My compressor still overheats. I hope you get a good one from the start!!
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Harold I was hoping your problem would have been solved by now WOW . I read field supply's return policy I hope I have 14 days ? I hope I don't have a problem. We will see the UPS man is coming tomorrow
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The UPS man finely showed up with my Hatsan compressor.
When I finely got into the box right on top was a note saying that the compressor received an update to the cooling system to increase its performance.I immediately thought of DUSTER_360 and his cooling problem.
They took the 90 degree inlet fitting of the final stage head and replaced it with a straight fitting, and the hose length has been adjusted. I hope this will help with the over heating?
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The UPS man finely showed up with my Hatsan compressor.
When I finely got into the box right on top was a note saying that the compressor received an update to the cooling system to increase its performance.I immediately thought of DUSTER_360 and his cooling problem.
They took the 90 degree inlet fitting of the final stage head and replaced it with a straight fitting, and the hose length has been adjusted. I hope this will help with the over heating?
Run it and get back to us with a report on your experience. I’ll be doing my fourth fill of a 45 min. SCBA this evening.
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Updates from both of you would be appreciated.
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Robert - I was sent the parts for the cooling system "update" and made the changes. It did nothing for my overheating problem one way or the other. I'm thinking source of my overheating is strictly internal to the compressor.
After waiting almost two weeks on Hatsan, I sent them email asking hey! - was surprised to get an answer. Now it seems they want me to test the temp gauge with boiling or near boiling water as I outlined almost two weeks ago. SMH.....two weeks wasted.
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Ok guys I ran the compressor for a 15 minute break-in time. then tested for leaks (no leaks) hooked it up to my tank ran for about 15 minutes and shut off at about 3800psi. the gauge needed to be calibrated. after calibrating I filled my tank to 4500 psi. The temperature got to around 175 and that was after break-in, leak test, calibration and the fill. So far so good. I will keep you updated but it's harvest time for me and so that means I'll be busy for awhile.
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I just orderd a Hatsan compressor form Field supply.com for $993.17 + free shipping. So I hope all goes well
That's the best price I've seen.
Thanks for posting this I will be using my credit cards price protection to get that price at Field Supply matched. Thanks again.
Luis, tell me more about this price protection deal you’ve got thru your CC. How long does the institution honor this? I bought my compressor back in June, and if I find out I have that coverage, how long are these good for?
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I just orderd a Hatsan compressor form Field supply.com for $993.17 + free shipping. So I hope all goes well
That's the best price I've seen.
Thanks for posting this I will be using my credit cards price protection to get that price at Field Supply matched. Thanks again.
Luis, tell me more about this price protection deal you’ve got thru your CC. How long does the institution honor this? I bought my compressor back in June, and if I find out I have that coverage, how long are these good for?
Discover Card has a 90 day price protection program, which they are ending October 31st.
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I just orderd a Hatsan compressor form Field supply.com for $993.17 + free shipping. So I hope all goes well
That's the best price I've seen.
Thanks for posting this I will be using my credit cards price protection to get that price at Field Supply matched. Thanks again.
Luis, tell me more about this price protection deal you’ve got thru your CC. How long does the institution honor this? I bought my compressor back in June, and if I find out I have that coverage, how long are these good for?
Discover Card has a 90 day price protection program, which they are ending October 31st.
Thank you!
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Robert, your results look encouraging.
Its kind of hard to tell from just a partial fill, but if you get the chance to fill another empty SCBA, write down the temp every 5 or 10 minutes. Then when you're done, look at the temp data and calculate the change in temp between each time you wrote down the temps. You should see the temp rise decreasing and then almost not changing at all. This indicates the temp has stabilized like it should. Purges tend to mess with this a little but the trend is still evident. I use a 10 min purge which seems to work well in Houston's oppressive humidity.
Temps on mine have never shown anything but a steady, ever increasing march to the max temp of 195 F.
I tested my compressor's temp probe as requested by Hatsan service (this seems to be a different technician than I've been getting) and its apparent the temp probe is bad. I guess when Hatsan service catches up on their email Monday, I'll get an email that they're shipping me a new temp probe. My temperature probe was reading 14 F too low.
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Any updates?
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Any updates?
I’ll put up an update, lol. I notified Hatsan on why i didn’t get sent a letter telling me of the coolant fitting upgrade, and it was because I bought thru a vendor, and not direct from them. They emailed me asking me to take pics of what the compressor had(I guess some models were already updated prior to shipping them to customers) and mine turned out to be a candidate for the new fitting. Just received it two days ago, along with a coupon code to use and get $50 off my next purchase thru hatsan, just for the trouble of me doing the work. Thought that was kind of cool.
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Seems like very nice involvement from Hatsan. Compressor still functioning well with no issues?
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Yes, so far still working as it’s suppose to.
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Thanks, good to know. I did do a post asking about the Lightning on another facebook compressor group. The vendor involved in the Mark Nagel compressor failure responded that he has sold several units and all others were working normally. He also stated his shop uses one daily and had at that time filled over 20 large tanks from empty with no issues experienced. Certainly seems that the Lightning should have a similar reliability to the AV since they appear to have a common architecture and those have been recommended by quite a few people. Hope you continue to enjoy your compressor. Thanks for info.
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That's what I have noted, if you get a good compressor, you're prob good to go. If you don't get a good compressor, unless it's a superficial issue like the cooling fan heat shield being assembled wrong or shipping related damage, you're going to have major problems.
My Lightning overheated from the start, literally overheating during break which I abbreviated after watching temps climbing rapidly. I used what seemed to be the preferred compressor oil, Royal Purple and the recommended antifreeze in the right mixture range. I reported the problem via phone voicemail from which I never ever received a call back from Hatsan. I filed a customer service report the same day and waited and waited and waited. Six days later I get an email that advised I should "check the compressor over carefully". No real help, you would think service would know exactly what would make their product overheat, or at least Hatsan would care enough to find out from the company that assembled these compressors what to check for.
I got far more quality help from comparing my compressor and its behavior with two other guys with working compressors over the phone and internet than I ever did from Hatsan. Hatsan service for me was a joke and pretty much a waste of time. Finally, Hatsan approved my suggestion to test the temperature gauge. I found it was reading 14 - 15 degrees too low meaning it was overheating even worse than the temperature gauge made it seem. Finally, Hatsan recognized that something was wrong and issued an RMA. I returned the compressor and have been waiting since Oct 24 for some kind of resolution, but seem to be stuck in another one of these long periods of time where there is no contact or input from Hatsan.
Extremely frustrated and incredibly disappointed in Hatsan for the treatment I've experienced.
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Sorry to hear of their poor response with you. Seems some have had this level response and others have received treatment above and beyond what was needed. Certainly odd. Hope you get it worked out.