GTA
Support Equipment For PCP/HPA/CO2 and springers ,rams => Optics, Range estimation & related subjects => Topic started by: BillinNM on September 10, 2018, 10:45:54 AM
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Just ordered an HW97K from Krale, and would like to have an optic on hand for it for plinking, hunting and field target. Looking at the 4-16X50.
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I have a Discovery Optics VT-T 6x24-50 and love it. Clear glass, built like a tank and comes with a phone cam to record all the action. Check out airgunopticsplus.com. US inventory and great prices.
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Just ordered an HW97K from Krale, and would like to have an optic on hand for it for plinking, hunting and field target. Looking at the 4-16X50.
I'm currently using this 4-16x50mm Discovery scope on my HW95..........
(https://i.imgur.com/JD6hbRgl.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/msCN96Kl.jpg)
LOL....I ordered my scope from Amazon for $209.99 with free shipping. It was ordered at the end of April, 2018, and it arrived directly from China at the Roughmont, NC post office on May 27th after a rather weird 1 month routing half way around the world...........
(https://i.imgur.com/lsgvj9Gl.png)(https://i.imgur.com/sfTwlvMl.png)
Here is a vendor that offers the same scope for $169.00 with free shipping......
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DISCOVERY-VT-2-4-16x50-SFIR-illumination-reticle-side-foucs-riflescopes-hunting/32475875779.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DISCOVERY-VT-2-4-16x50-SFIR-illumination-reticle-side-foucs-riflescopes-hunting/32475875779.html)
LOL....I bet that this offering comes direct from China too. :o
So far the scope is performing well with good optics and solid controls. The side focus functions well without "slop" so it's rather easy to get a good scope rangefind when shooting hunter class field target (hunter class 16x max power setting). The field of view is a bit narrow (especially compared to my 5-15x50 Hawke Panorama), however my scope does have crisp optics, especially considering the price. Discovery scopes have a lot of different reticles (some really busy) but my scope has a reticle similar to a "Hawke 10x half mildot reticle". While a bit thin for my taste the reticle of my scope works well since there is an "illumination feature" for those dark targets in shady FT course lanes. Here is my Discovery reticle..........
(https://i.imgur.com/C8SdZWBl.png)
Anywhoo....I hope my Discovery holds up as well as the "hard to believe" sales videos!!! ::)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVo_WwI0KwU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVo_WwI0KwU)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F51_OrZ5CNw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F51_OrZ5CNw)
I made a couple changes to the scope which includes painting the silly blue lens covers black and modified a UTG 80mm side wheel to fit the side focus knob of the Discovery.........
Before paint..........
(https://i.imgur.com/lPC6l1kl.jpg)
After paint.........
(https://i.imgur.com/VMPWvFjl.jpg)
Side wheel mod.........
New..........
(https://i.imgur.com/18lBiOUl.png)
After machining away the "knobbies" (makes attaching holdover tape easier) and enlarging the rubber insert for a snug fit to the scope focus knob........
(https://i.imgur.com/uTxM6Cvl.jpg)
I also shortened the supplied lens shade for better eye positioning when the scope sits back far enough to clear the pivoting HW95 breech block when cocking..........
(https://i.imgur.com/Rr6n0g9l.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/APwufP7l.jpg)
Scope with painted lens covers, modified sidewheel "glued" in place with silicone rubber, and the holdover tape attached ready for marking........
(https://i.imgur.com/Se7TLpAl.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/zsktUe1l.jpg)
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Thanks Guys
I'll be waiting for your thoughts after some use etc.
I am planning ahead for the new Gauntlet I am getting......... ;D
Tia,
Don
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I got my Discovery VT-T 6-24x50 from airgunopticsplus.com. It's free shipping and under $275(http://)
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Nced
I am interested in adding a range finding side wheel for my next scope,
Can you please explain the tape you use, what type or where to find etc?
Does this tape hold up to repeated use and can the info on this tape be erased and new info added as needed,
or do you have to make/add a new tape?
I would use this range wheel for hunting within 50 yds, with the new Gauntlet I am getting.
I have seen lots of setups with this type of range wheel, but I have no hands on use,
and know nothing about a range wheel etc.
Thank you for your time and trouble.
Tia,
Don
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Nced
I am interested in adding a range finding side wheel for my next scope,
Can you please explain the tape you use, what type or where to find etc?
Does this tape hold up to repeated use and can the info on this tape be erased and new info added as needed,
or do you have to make/add a new tape?
I would use this range wheel for hunting within 50 yds, with the new Gauntlet I am getting.
I have seen lots of setups with this type of range wheel, but I have no hands on use,
and know nothing about a range wheel etc.
Thank you for your time and trouble.
Tia,
Don
"Can you please explain the tape you use, what type or where to find etc?"
The tape on the side wheel is simply PVC electrical tape bought at a "big box store" like Lowes. It comes in various colors but I do prefer yellow.........
(https://i.imgur.com/sB6HsF5l.png)
"Does this tape hold up to repeated use"
Yep....the tape holds up well and is indeed waterproof.
"can the info on this tape be erased and new info added as needed"
Not when a permanent marker is used. I simply remove the old tape and add a new clean tape if remarking is needed.
"I have no hands on use"
The only "hands on use" I have is to mark "holdover symbols" on my tape to show how high to hold based on a sharp focus......
(https://i.imgur.com/ehcBjDbl.jpg)
My method is very unusual in the sense that most shooters mark their SW with actual yardage marks and then refer to a dope sheet to know how many clicks to use for various ranges........
(https://i.imgur.com/J5h0cRLl.png)
Someone with "more normal SW setup experience" can give better setup advice.
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Nced
Thank you for that info and the photo's of the marker to know where you are at,
that answered a question I had.
I guess I'll have to try a ranging wheel,
should work OK in the hunting field with the unknown ranges that occur,
and means I don't have to carry the range finder etc.
Tia,
Don
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Nced
Thank you for that info and the photo's of the marker to know where you are at,
that answered a question I had.
I guess I'll have to try a ranging wheel,
should work OK in the hunting field with the unknown ranges that occur,
and means I don't have to carry the range finder etc.
Tia,
Don
When living in WV I didn't find that rangefinders were very useful because the trajectory of a pellet on a steep angled shot (like shooting a squirrel at the top of a high tree when standing close to the trunk) isn't the same as a shot at the same distance "on the level". When living in WV my brother and I would take our R9s into the woods and shoot pine cones at different ranges and angles. LOL....there were some angles where I could center a 40 yard pine cone by aiming "crosshair on" with a 30 yard zero. I would also times when I would aim at an "up high" squirrel's head, forget to aim LOW and through the scope see the squirrel look puzzled as the pellet whizzed over it's head.
I also found that using marked yards on the sidewheel or AO and then referring to a dope sheet wasn't too good for squirrel hunting because a squirrel in WV doesn't set still long enough to consult a dope sheet before taking a shot. My silly "symbols on the AO" makes it easy to focus sharply and read the holdover directly from the "holdover tape". Here's how the marks worked out using my .177 HW95 tuned to about 13fps using a 3-12x44 Optisan Viper scope with SCB reticle............
(https://i.imgur.com/7x895QBl.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/urnuA18l.jpg)
The main disadvantage of setting up based on trajectory instead of yardage is the fact that the marks are only good for one gun, one power setting, one scope & one mount. Change any of that and the marks won't be true.
I've even marked the AOs of my scopes that don't have side focus like this.........
(https://i.imgur.com/aSmXC9Yl.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/2UYcAbXl.jpg)
Simply focus and hold using the appropriate "reticle mark". In all actuality however, much past 35 yard the depth of field of a scope set at 12x (or even 16x) is too deep to get a precision rangefind so the longer distances are pretty much a guess, however I "guess" a lot more accurately using the scope than I do "eye ballin"" it!
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I recently received a Discovery 4-16x50 ED scope. I have heard allot of good reviews of there scopes, but I am not impressed with this scope. The glass apears to have no coating, so it is very shinny, or reflective. The glass isnt as clear as my argos but better than my bsa tactical. The windage knob stuck down hard. I cant unpop it with my fingers. The turrets do click exelent, tracking looked great, poi shift on focussing is unnoticeable. The magnification ring needs a monkey wrench to turn and there isnt a raised button to grab onto. The elevation turret is labeled backwards,
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Ed
Thank you for the info and photo's, it explains your system etc.
Question for you,
Could a range wheel be set up as modified range finder, ie,
Check the known yardages accurately with a range finder/measuring tape, so the known distance/yardage is accurate.
then use the range wheel which was accurately focused to the parallex setting, what ever yardage,
and marked to that yardage/distance on the range wheel.
As an example, out hunting/shooting, you find a target,
use the range wheel until it registers at the most accurate yardage,
adjust your hold (which matches the ballistics of your rifle/loading etc) then take the shot.
I use ranges stickers on my all my rifles, ie,
25yds = +1", (from POA), 30 yds = +3/4", etc, after carefully zeroing the rifle/load..
Tia,
Don
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I recently received a Discovery 4-16x50 ED scope. I have heard allot of good reviews of there scopes, but I am not impressed with this scope. The glass apears to have no coating, so it is very shinny, or reflective. The glass isnt as clear as my argos but better than my bsa tactical. The windage knob stuck down hard. I cant unpop it with my fingers. The turrets do click exelent, tracking looked great, poi shift on focussing is unnoticeable. The magnification ring needs a monkey wrench to turn and there isnt a raised button to grab onto. The elevation turret is labeled backwards,
I don't know what model the 4x16x50 ED is but my 4-16x50 Discovery VT-2 4-16X50SFIR is pretty good for the price and it's advertised to have Ed
Thank you for the info and photo's, it explains your system etc.
Question for you,
Could a range wheel be set up as modified range finder, ie,
Check the known yardages accurately with a range finder/measuring tape, so the known distance/yardage is accurate.
then use the range wheel which was accurately focused to the parallex setting, what ever yardage,
and marked to that yardage/distance on the range wheel.
As an example, out hunting/shooting, you find a target,
use the range wheel until it registers at the most accurate yardage,
adjust your hold (which matches the ballistics of your rifle/loading etc) then take the shot.
I use ranges stickers on my all my rifles, ie,
25yds = +1", (from POA), 30 yds = +3/4", etc, after carefully zeroing the rifle/load..
Tia,
Don
" Could a range wheel be set up as modified range finder, ie,"
Well....yes and no depending on the distance. Even at the max power of the scopes I use (16x), the depth of field is rather deep past 30 yards so an accurate rangefind at 40 yards using "sharp focus" is problematic. At closer distances the "sharp focus depth of field" at 16x is more accurate than I can guess. At closer distances my brother found that scope rangefinding (even at 12x) was more accurate than his lazer range finder because the LRF would round up or down "partial yards" to the next nearest yard.
Anywhoo......when I first started shooting field target it was often mentioned by "those in the know" that 24x was the minimum power for somewhat accurate range finding, however 32x was the minimum RECOMMENDED power for scope rangefinding. LOL....even 24x would make a scope useless for MY "all purpose springers" (if it would even fit the receiver)!
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Ed
Thank you for that info,
most of the shots are less than 30yds, heavy sage brush cover etc.
I'll try the range wheel, as soon as I find a smaller dia wheel etc.
Looking for one in the 2-1/2 to 3" range/diameter.
Most of the ones I have found so far, are too big in diameter.
Tia,
Don
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Ed
Thank you for that info,
most of the shots are less than 30yds, heavy sage brush cover etc.
I'll try the range wheel, as soon as I find a smaller dia wheel etc.
Looking for one in the 2-1/2 to 3" range/diameter.
Most of the ones I have found so far, are too big in diameter.
Tia,
Don
MY "modified to fit the Discovery focus knob" UTG wheel is 80mm (3.1").
UTG also makes a 60mm wheel (2.4")..............
https://www.amazon.com/UTG-Add-Index-Wheel-Scope/dp/B00M51M75S (https://www.amazon.com/UTG-Add-Index-Wheel-Scope/dp/B00M51M75S)
"most of the shots are less than 30yds, heavy sage brush cover etc"
Hummm....with my .177 cal HW95 tuned to about 13fpe (7.9 CPL at 860fps) and zero'd for 30 yards using a 7.9 grain CPL I have a near zero of about 17 yards and a far zero of 30 yards with a mid-range rise of about 1/8" above the aim point at 35 yards. I also know that a close 10 yard shot will be about 1/2" low at 10 yards which is easy to compensate by aiming at the top of a squirrel head. Here is a pic of a "trajectory target" I shot a few years ago when checking out the trajectory of a certain .177 R9 tune...........
(https://i.imgur.com/5ko3WLgl.jpg)
Point being that from about 15 yards to 35 yards all shots would be "minute of squirrel head" without the need for adjusting anything but the focus to get a correct parallax. LOL......whenever I squirrel hunt I keep all shots between 15 and 35 yards leaving the long range stuff to the "lottery shooters" under field conditions.
Back to the side wheel.........the larger the side wheel circumference has more room for marking the various ranges. This pic shows how close together the marks become between 40 & 50 yards compared to the marks between 10 & 30 yards..................
(https://i.imgur.com/9ZTwGD6l.png)
Anywhoo, the larger the side wheel the more accurate the range marks. Note that the scope power setting in the pic was 32x, however I do wonder if the accuracy of a scope rangefind at 55 yards could be any closer than plus/minus 2 yards. Perhaps someone here with "high mag,high quality" scope can vouch for the actual accuracy of a "50 yard rangefind". Also, the eyes of the shooter also come into play here. A couple decades ago I was able to distinguish sharp focus between 50 yards and 55 yards even with the 40mm AO of my Bushnell Elite 4200 set at 12x, however at 71 years old I have issues with my eye focus changing while looking through the scope.