GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: Tonykarter on September 04, 2018, 11:37:07 AM
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Just got an email from Pyramid. Featured prominently in the title: 10% OFF! AND FREE SHIPPING!*
And hidden not so prominently in the fine print:
* on orders of $150 or more.
That's not free shipping Pyramid. That's deceptive advertising, even if it is in the fine print.
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Sorry l don’t see it! Their is clearly an * after free shipping which notes all stipulations.
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I think most of the folks here are already aware of this gimmick. I agree it is presented in a misleading manner but all the facts are there if you read the fine print.
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And that is my point. A sales "gimmick". Less gimmicks. Please. And Frank I must apologize to you. I did my own misrepresentation in reporting this. It did not have an asterisk behind the "FREE shipping". Cut and pasted from the email, it read like this: You can't beat our 10% off + FREE Shipping + 3x Bullseye Bucks* sitewide sale, but this OFFER ENDS TOMORROW, so ORDER TODAY!.
So to a reasonable person it would appear that the asterisk is a caveat to the 3X Bullseye Bucks, not to the FREE shipping, and reasonable minds would infer that the shipping was indeed free, especially since the word FREE is the only word of the three deals that is featured in capital letters. Even more deceptive in my opinion.
We have a code to get 10% off anytime.
Isn't PA's Free Shipping always $150?
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I'll pass on free shipping for small stuff and take the greater gladly. I recently bought an A/V compressor $1100., Weighting 75# and I'm happy the shipping out to Arizona was free! I'll take that any day . Wayne
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Hi Everyone - Kristen here at Pyramyd Air.
First off - thanks for your feedback.
We put the asterisk at the end of the statement because things are notated in the fine print that apply to the entire promotion (in this case: You can't beat our 10% off + FREE Shipping + 3x Bullseye Bucks* sitewide sale, but this OFFER ENDS TOMORROW, so ORDER TODAY!). In this case, we have to let people know about the stipulations of the free shipping ($150 order minimum, contiguous states, ground shipping), as well as the fact that some items are excluded from the sale (coupons not allowed on certain items).
And yes, Tonykarter, while Pyramyd normally offers free ground shipping on orders $150+, some coupons we advertise do NOT combine the free shipping with the % off deal (in these cases, if you applied the coupon code, we would only offer you whichever is the better discount - the free shipping or the % off).
We aren't trying to deceive our customers by any means, we just want to convey our marketing promotions as cleanly as possible in our creative, which is why we put the disclaimer at the bottom.
Thanks for being valued Pyramyd Air customers - we do appreciate it.
Kristen
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MANY thanks Kristen for the explanation. And the always outstanding support PA gives to GTA Forums and the entire airgun community!!!
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sorry Kristen but the over $150 could easily be in just as large print as the rest of the ad... That would make it very clear would it not... otherwise people will feel it is the deceptive type of marketing that disrespects the customer... You folks at PA do do a great job... But I do feel that Marketing should at all times show respect to the customer in even the smallest ways...
do not even get me started on many in the industry that use deceptive fps/fpe claims instead of educating the customer... I guess these rifles are still considered toys not tools... and that the customer is treated like a mark is evident to the informed... :(
Fortidude ad, 800 fps with lead... what lead pellet... oh not the normal 14 ish grain... sad... long term shows disrespect to the customer and destroys trust...
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I feel that PA puts forth a greater effort to transparency than most other vendors - they'll often list the pellet weight used for testing FPS (hint: it's usually an 11.2gr RWS) AND the FPE generated by that pellet. They do NOT seem to list those details on items they haven't personally tested.
From any marketing campaign, you always have to expect these shenanigans - I think most marketing departments would have an aneurysm if they couldn't hide unflattering details behind an asterisk. The fact is though, the details about the shipping requirements ARE THERE on the same page that the asterisk appears, you don't have to click through hoops to find the caveats.
Due diligence by the customer is just as important as due diligence by the vendor.
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I feel that PA puts forth a greater effort to transparency than most other vendors - they'll often list the pellet weight used for testing FPS (hint: it's usually an 11.2gr RWS) AND the FPE generated by that pellet. They do NOT seem to list those details on items they haven't personally tested.
I very much agree with the above
From any marketing campaign, you always have to expect these shenanigans - I think most marketing departments would have an aneurysm if they couldn't hide unflattering details behind an asterisk. The fact is though, the details about the shipping requirements ARE THERE on the same page that the asterisk appears, you don't have to click through hoops to find the caveats.
You either are treating the customer with respect or you are not... If you build a reputation that is trusted why not work to keep it... if you build a rep for hiding things no biggy?
Due diligence by the customer is just as important as due diligence by the vendor.
Yeah I feel that is what a marketing major would say.. ;) it makes it ok cause that is just the way things are accepted to be... reality it says trust is not important...and I feel in the long run "caveat empator" bites ya(the marketer) in the rearmost portion...
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It's easily understood if one takes the time to even grossly read what is presented. As others have noted, the free shipping can really help on large orders. Pyramyd always packs their pellets (and other items) very well. Seems some would complain that a free lunch isn't tasty enough.
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No it is about treating others as you would wish treated... and thing that can be done to have the BEST reputation possible as a marketing entity... everything else is fluffy bs...
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It's not necessarily deceptive as it's right there, but you do have to give it a second look.
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Once you know it is free with a purchase oe 150$ or more it will no longer be deceptive to you. Lots of things I buy have free shipping with a purchase of x amount or more. Olive oil, free after you reach 45$. Cabelas, Midway, Basspro, Jerky, and a host of others offer the same in varying amounts of purchase amounts.
Amazon, Ebay have true free shipping (lots of times the free is already been added to the price, that is deception to me.)
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Once you know it is free with a purchase oe 150$ or more it will no longer be deceptive to you. Lots of things I buy have free shipping with a purchase of x amount or more. Olive oil, free after you reach 45$. Cabelas, Midway, Basspro, Jerky, and a host of others offer the same in varying amounts of purchase amounts.
Amazon, Ebay have true free shipping (lots of times the free is already been added to the price, that is deception to me.)
Agree, but even if you know, then you see an special, that will end tomorrow and it says FREE shipping.... I think that should not be part of the special, because it sounds like a good deal that will expire soon, when it's not.
When I read the email for the first time I also though it was a good deal to have the free shipping to later realize that was not special, it's like they always have it (because even if free after 150 it's a special, we could not have that either)
But being used to have that free shipping "special" permanent, then it's a big weird they mention FREE shipping on the email.
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Pyramyd is not the only site that has minimums for free shipping. Do you complain about them too, or only Pyramyd because you have a forum to post the compliant? Check your prices no matter where you shop online. Some of the places that offer "free" shipping have just included it in the price of the merchandise.
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It clearly says $150.00. Sorry if some don’t know how to read. My advice is stay off the tarmac at an airport, because it doesn’t state “watch out for propellers”. Adults actually read before they act.
Sorry if this is viewed as harsh, but if you’re going to shop online, you need to learn to read.
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OUCH!
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I'll pass on free shipping for small stuff and take the greater gladly. I recently bought an A/V compressor $1100., Weighting 75# and I'm happy the shipping out to Arizona was free! I'll take that any day . Wayne
I’d like to know where you bought that compressor for $1100. Thanks;)
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And I read it and I realized it, I was just sharing that even when I knew about the free shipping for 150+, when I read that email for the first time I though it was free shipping during the time period, it didn't happen to you? Good for you then. For me it wasn't a big deal because I was not looking to buy anything at this time.
But that is what marketing do.
I think this post still valid for those that are new and reading this (and not the fine print) so they realize that there's no Free Shipping from PA if your order is not $150+
The other interesting fact is that it looks like offering free shipping looks like a big deal for a lot of people, most of the big purchases will cost more than $150 and the small purchases (ammo) the shipping is around 10$.
I'm not in marketing, but I'm just thinking what is more cost efficient, do a really free shipping couple of days and no 10% off and see if that sells more than anything you have done.
Marketing might be reading this too so, I see this post valid, not at all a complaint because we have the forum.
And to be clear, I support PA and the great work they do.
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Excellent! I had hoped to begin a discussion by posting this thread. PA, I guess we have your attention? Excellent. Simply change your copy in the future to prominently feature the $150 minimum, and as this thread has revealed, even more people will have a positive impression. You must win the hearts and minds of those you wish to sell if you are going to sell them. PA, you ROCK as far as how you package pellets, Second to none. NOW, work on how fast you get the orders out the door, and see if you can't reduce that $150 minimum order to have free shipping. In the same email batch download that I received your sale email I received an email from a paintball product distributor (wonder which vendor sold my email address to them...wasn't YOU was it PA?). They only have a $19 minimum order to get free shipping. They surely must have a similar cost profile as PA, probably even greater costs due to their lack of economies of scale you have achieved. How is it then that they can pay freight after $19 and still make a profit, but yours must be $150? The only answer I can think of is that your profit motive is stronger than theirs, putting it nicely. Know that I am a very good customer of yours. I have placed seventeen orders in fourteen months with you. Most were not little orders either. I appreciate how you pack those pellets. Your website and its links are a compendium of valuable airgun information. Thank you for what you bring to educate us.
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Tony, it sure still seems you have quite a personal issue with PA. If I'm wrong so be it, but it sure reads that way to me.
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Gotta be careful with the free shipping. There are a lot of items on Amazon that offer free shipping, but pretty much have shipping factored into the price. I always compare prices with other web sites.
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Nothing personal. If you think being honest and direct is personal, you should have sat in on some of the meetings I have been in over the years!
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No worries. I've just always had excellent results from PA with packing and timeliness of orders as have many others. Certainly some have had different experiences. I understood their policy once I read everything for my first order with them. I agree they could lower the free shipping threshold but consider this-many if not most of their orders are probably sizable pellet orders (heavy but not bulky) and/or bulky (rifles). Personally, I've also ordered from Trenier a few times but PA does fine by me. Enjoy your shooting.
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I’d like to apologize for the comments I made in Reply #16.
I was rude and quite harsh. I have no excuse. We’re supposed to be here to help the other members & my comments were definitely not helpful. Again, my apologies to Ray & the other members. :-[
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I’d like to apologize for the comments I made in Reply #16.
I was rude and quite harsh. I have no excuse. We’re supposed to be here to help the other members & my comments were definitely not helpful. Again, my apologies to Ray & the other members. :-[
Hey! All good, you are my hero just for writing this message. When I saw you were an Habanero I understood :)
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No apology needed Habanero! We are all good. I thought the tarmac analogy was pretty witty!
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,,,,,,and,,,,,,,,,keep in mind that if you work your order to 150$, then apply the 10% discount you still dont get free shipping because now our order is only 135$. You have to go back and order something else where the total is 150 or more after the discount is applied.
I wait until I need a large number of pellets and get around 15 tins, remembering I am only charged for each three tins. Works for me, especially if I time it for the extra bulls eye bucks.
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A few times a year, Pyramyd offers the 10% discount & free shipping. Unfortunately, their timing usually doesn’t correspond with my wallet or is it the other way around? ::)
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PA is not like other companies as they have a sort of a captive customer base. I would like them, their service not to stay as it is but get better, grow, improve. I think they would better serve their customers and their bottom line if they would stop using this marketing that has a ring of the pre owned.. I mean used car sales flavor to it.
I think K.O. has some very valid points.
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I'm old, but I'm still learning.
All advertising is deceptive. You will likely never get the advertised discount and realistic free shipping. By that I mean every order from PA with free shipping is ground and like clockwork takes 8 days EVERY time. In today's competitive online marketplace it would be a joke, but because Amazon and others do not carry the items we buy we are stuck with these vendors. They are all the same and do EXACTLY THE MINIMUM to entice you from one marginally different priced online vendor to another, and websites with pricing far above that generally don't last.
You can explain it any way you like but they only have customer loyalty in mind when it effects the bottom line. To me, shopping online is a matter of trust. Not trusting I'm getting the best price but trusting the product will reach my door in a reasonable time in good condition without a scam involved. It is and will always be what the market will bare.
I begrudge them nothing for playing within the rules of competition. It's up to them to present the product in a manner that will make us place an order, and up to us to use due diligence in purchasing.
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I'm old, but I'm still learning.
All advertising is deceptive. You will likely never get the advertised discount and realistic free shipping. By that I mean every order from PA with free shipping is ground and like clockwork takes 8 days EVERY time. In today's competitive online marketplace it would be a joke, but because Amazon and others do not carry the items we buy we are stuck with these vendors. They are all the same and do EXACTLY THE MINIMUM to entice you from one marginally different priced online vendor to another, and websites with pricing far above that generally don't last.
You can explain it any way you like but they only have customer loyalty in mind when it effects the bottom line. To me, shopping online is a matter of trust. Not trusting I'm getting the best price but trusting the product will reach my door in a reasonable time in good condition without a scam involved. It is and will always be what the market will bare.
I begrudge them nothing for playing within the rules of competition. It's up to them to present the product in a manner that will make us place an order, and up to us to use due diligence in purchasing.
8 days???? if i order from PA on a tue morning ,i have my order the very next day (wed), fedex ground.
im sure it helps that i am only in the next state over from them ;D
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It is 7 to 8 days for me too....
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I got a scope from Airgunopticsplus and it was truly free shipping and a great price. Just as they said.
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I got a scope from Airgunopticsplus and it was truly free shipping and a great price. Just as they said.
Nice!
I see they are selling the Discovery optics, and I've only seen good reviews about it... how do you like yours?
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Hmmmm ....
When buying ANYTHING online, you have to consider the bottom line: WHAT COMES OUT OF YOUR POCKET!
Yes, FREE shipping is factored in the price (d-uh, of course) but how does it compare to the lower price offered by someone else + shipping? In the end YOU will pay for it, whatever you want to call it.
Cheers
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I'm old, but I'm still learning.
All advertising is deceptive. You will likely never get the advertised discount and realistic free shipping. By that I mean every order from PA with free shipping is ground and like clockwork takes 8 days EVERY time. In today's competitive online marketplace it would be a joke, but because Amazon and others do not carry the items we buy we are stuck with these vendors. They are all the same and do EXACTLY THE MINIMUM to entice you from one marginally different priced online vendor to another, and websites with pricing far above that generally don't last.
You can explain it any way you like but they only have customer loyalty in mind when it effects the bottom line. To me, shopping online is a matter of trust. Not trusting I'm getting the best price but trusting the product will reach my door in a reasonable time in good condition without a scam involved. It is and will always be what the market will bare.
I begrudge them nothing for playing within the rules of competition. It's up to them to present the product in a manner that will make us place an order, and up to us to use due diligence in purchasing.
8 days???? if i order from PA on a tue morning ,i have my order the very next day (wed), fedex ground.
im sure it helps that i am only in the next state over from them ;D
For me it depends on the type shipping I choose. Standard shipping 2 days, pay for 2 day shipping, 4 days. I just ordered pellets and chose to buy from some one other thanb pa. Once bitten twice shy.
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Just to be clear I do think Pyramyd is tops of the online retailers that serves the Air gun community..!
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Agree.
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I've received an email today from PyramydAir and I'll say kudos to the Marketing Team for making the message less ambiguous this time!
(https://i.imgur.com/DuEURXP.png)
Keep up the good work!!
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I never considered the message ambiguous in the past. One just had to read what was written.
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Exactly. There is always the asterisk when there are specific conditions.
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Guys, I was just trying to note that this time there's no room for confusion and that I think they did a great job and you still fixated with the past.
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Thank you PA for listening and caring.
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Pyramyd Air sent me a email on buy today and get free shipping. Ordered a chrono, but when I got to check out discovered there was NO FREE SHIPPING, cancelled my order, will buy from Midway.
If Pyramyd does not have the GUTS TO BE HONEST they don't need my business.
Dennis
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Dennis, how much was the chrony at Pyramyd?
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I bet it was a cheap one - less than $150.
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Look at reply #40 above. It is very clear if one simply reads what is there. I'll continue to use PA as they have always provided excellent packing/shipping and most often for me the lowest prices available.
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I appreciate Pyramyds commitment to the be the the best... It is a small effort/change to be very clear... that to me signals respect for the customer...
When in advertising you go to that effort long term it builds more and more trust in them as a retailer that services our community... more trust equals more repeat customers... it also means less chance of misunderstanding and that leads just that little bit more positive word of mouth...
It was suggested here also that hey It would be a good idea to have a discount code for this specific community... in one day there was a GATEWAY-PYRAMYD code announced...
My point is this all shows commitment to being as responsive to their customers as they can even in the smaller details...
Your pellet order will be packed in such a way as to give them the best chance of arriving safely...
PYRAMYD AIR LEADS the way...
Kuddo's
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PYRAMYD AIR LEADS the way...
Kuddo's
(https://i.imgur.com/IzfWp3g.png)
as in the ammo I use 8)
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as an intransitive verb : to be first
;)
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lead (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lead)
Pyramyd Air leads in the shipping of our lead projectiles which is a part of what has lead to them having a class leading reputation.. ;)
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Let me get this correct people are mad because they did not read the entire ad.
I enjoy this, and it is fantastic....many times you hit that $150 and get the % off only to have that % off set by the shipping costs, so really what was the point....this is nice. And it is fantastic that someone from PA got on here and let those that finished public school just what it all means.
I am likely already on thin ice, as I usually am, so I will just leave it at that.
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Let me get this correct people are mad because they did not read the entire ad.
I enjoy this, and it is fantastic....many times you hit that $150 and get the % off only to have that % off set by the shipping costs, so really what was the point....this is nice. And it is fantastic that someone from PA got on here and let those that finished public school just what it all means.
I am likely already on thin ice, as I usually am, so I will just leave it at that.
we said "lead" the way!!
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Let me get this correct people are mad because they did not read the entire ad.
I enjoy this, and it is fantastic....many times you hit that $150 and get the % off only to have that % off set by the shipping costs, so really what was the point....this is nice. And it is fantastic that someone from PA got on here and let those that finished public school just what it all means.
I am likely already on thin ice, as I usually am, so I will just leave it at that.
Probably on paper-thin ice now... Your post is of no value to anyone and only makes fun of other GTA members. Refrain from characterizing other members here and maybe you won't fall through the thin ice. Just focus on the topic at hand, airguns or shooting. We are not like other forums here. We do not take unproductive posts lightly especially the ones in which one patronizes fellow members, judges their intelligence, makes fun of them or insults them, or creates any type of conflict. It is a different culture here, and once you "get it" you should be OK. If you don't any time soon, then you might not be able to find that opening in the ice you need to resurface.
Harry
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Probably on paper-thin ice now... Your post is of no value to anyone and only makes fun of other GTA members. Refrain from characterizing other members here and maybe you won't fall through the thin ice. Just focus on the topic at hand, airguns or shooting. We are not like other forums here. We do not take unproductive posts lightly especially the ones in which one patronizes fellow members, judges their intelligence, makes fun of them or insults them, or creates any type of conflict. It is a different culture here, and once you "get it" you should be OK. If you don't any time soon, then you might not be able to find that opening in the ice you need to resurface.
Harry
+100 !
VERY Well Said !
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Dennis, how much was the chrony at Pyramyd?
I believe it was around $125.00.
It was about a month ago.
Now that everyone has brought me up to speed on Advertising, I know what to watch for. Never knew about the * before, kind of like going to Wall Street for a car loan.
About the Chrony, I'm, from the old school, been shooting in competition since the '60's, back then we used the ballistic books powder and bullet companies published. I do not shoot in comps. anymore just a backyard plinker that remembers the old days. Maybe I will buy a chrony one day.
Dennis
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Two things here:
1- Harry, OUCH! But needed to be said. +100 here too.
2- And, Dennis, I am sort of with you on the Chrony thing. if a "Chrony" doesn't taste good in Gumbo, I have no use for it.* <--- That little symbol means look below.
Below
*Gumbo is a soup like dish made famous by the true Cajun folks in South Louisiana. It was prepared as an entire meal with meat (often wild) and sausage. It is served over steaming sticky rice (short or medium grain.) Originally, it was a poor man's meal.
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Where is the popcorn 8)
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MMM, Great Grams crawdad gumbo...Etoile Texas style.. ;)
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Kirby, that is a terrible thing to do to Crawfish. But that just me!
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Let me get this correct people are mad because they did not read the entire ad.
I enjoy this, and it is fantastic....many times you hit that $150 and get the % off only to have that % off set by the shipping costs, so really what was the point....this is nice. And it is fantastic that someone from PA got on here and let those that finished public school just what it all means.
I am likely already on thin ice, as I usually am, so I will just leave it at that.
Probably on paper-thin ice now... Your post is of no value to anyone and only makes fun of other GTA members. Refrain from characterizing other members here and maybe you won't fall through the thin ice. Just focus on the topic at hand, airguns or shooting. We are not like other forums here. We do not take unproductive posts lightly especially the ones in which one patronizes fellow members, judges their intelligence, makes fun of them or insults them, or creates any type of conflict. It is a different culture here, and once you "get it" you should be OK. If you don't any time soon, then you might not be able to find that opening in the ice you need to resurface.
Harry
Sorry...thin skinned seems to be an issue with a great many people now as well.
I will refrain from that in the future.
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Kirby, that is a terrible thing to do to Crawfish. But that just me!
Was my Fav when young...and we were more oft to have it over cornbread than rice...Think tis just the difference of Redbone (east Texan) vs Cajun(west Louisianan) influence.. always a darker (like mahogany) roux also...with a light roux I think it was termed Crawfish Étouffée am came about around 1900 or so..?
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It is a different culture here, and once you "get it" you should be OK
Sorry...thin skinned seems to be an issue with a great many people now as well.
::)
Don't get me wrong "poking the bear" is ok sometimes, but not in the Forest. As stated you will find a courteous nature here an a genuine helpfulness and above all, a respectful environment.
Welcome Ralph
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Think tis just the difference of Redbone (east Texan) vs Cajun(west Louisianan) influence.. always a darker (like mahogany) roux also
With roots in the Basin as well as south of NO our East Texas gumbo's get tasted by some very cajun Cajuns at family reunions. Most are use to and prefer roux that is the appearance and viscosity of dirty dishwater. Like yours, our's is thicker and darker, almost halfway between theirs and a thick stew viscosity. With much more Holy Trinity in it as well. I haven't had the heart to tell them that it was cooked by a woman from Clinton, Illinois yet. Surely doing so would lead to an eviction from the family similar to Chuck Conners in the lead-in to Branded.