GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Diana Airguns => Topic started by: SammyK on August 19, 2018, 05:56:22 PM
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Hello,
I've been shooting powderburners since young, but now I live somewhere with a big back yard and thought I should start shooting at home, rather than have to going up to the hills or the range. However, that means an air rifle. I want something accurate to 50 yards (RWS 54/56?), not too expensive when it comes to the whole package (RWS 54/56?), can shoot with a bipod (RWS 54/56?), can sit around for a long time without shooting it (RWS 54/56?- I don't want a project gun or something to fiddle with), can take out a possum (RWS 54/56 in .22?), AND not too hold sensitive (RWS 54/56?)...
Part of me would like to get a PCP, but I don't want to spend too much money $1000 tops! and I concerned about long long term reliability and it sitting around for long periods of time not being shot...maybe even years...?
And of course pat of me is tempted to buy something like a $200 gas ram, but think I might not be satisfied with accuracy (esp out to longer ranges), and hold sensitivity
Thanks for the advice and knowledge,
SamK
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You appear set on the recoilless RWS/Diana series and I can't fault your reasoning. You should also look into a recoil damping scope mount like the Bullseye ZR. The recoilless Dianas are very hard on scopes. You should also note they are a side cocking airgun. I don't personally mind that all (I have a 48) but some people have trouble adapting. You should figure on some initial cleaning and lubrication then you can indeed leave the gun for long periods.
You may wish to consider a common PCP such as the Benjamin Marauder. If you get a hand pump you can probably even stay within your budget. Being a PCP there is no recoil to you or the scope. Leave air in the tank and it should store for long periods, too.
You are correct in your deduction that most spring piston airguns are hold sensitive. The accuracy is there but they can take learning to shoot.
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I have a rws 48 (same as the 56 just no sled) If I were you and do not plan on shooting much go for a rws 34 in .22 with open sites (I have one too). I can hit a beer cap at 25 yards with open sites (as long as the sun hits it just right) All my RWS Diana rifle's are used with open sites as they just eat any scope I put on them.
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I can't argue with Ed's logic, though I use a scope. My Diana 34 in .177 has easily taken out a ground squirrel with a head shot at forty yards. To be honest though it's not exactly stock. I have worked it a bit internally.
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I don't think there is a more accurate platform than the D54/56. I think it comes down to if you like the Thumbhole Stock. I would recommend the D56, for the Thumbhole stock and special finish that helps prevent rust etc.
I can't say if they will take out a Possum, but my 1.77 will blow thru 3/4 plywood 30 yards for sure and maybe 35 can't remember now.
Hope this helps.
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Hey Sam, either of those gun would suite you just fine I'm sure. If possible shoot one or the other before making the purchase. A good springer rated scope and you are set. If plinking is what you are after a good spring piston gun will be great. If LONG range pinking or hunting is in mind then a PCP would be better. I love my Spring Piston guns, I shoot out to 75yds and my hunts I try to keep under 50yds most of the time. Choose what you like and have fun. The Springers are self contained which makes it real nice, no pumps, tanks or compressors needed. RWS guns are very good and have great barrels which makes accuracy very good. I owned a very nice .177 48 at one time which was very accurate at 16-18fpe not too hard to cock and not too hold sensitive. Traded her for a HW77 .22 that is A GREAT HUNTER. I made a great trade with that one. Don't over think it and pick one and have FUN!!!!
Best of Luck My Brother
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I have a 48. Got it for Christmas over twenty years ago. I wish now that I would have asked my wife for a 54/56. That sled is worth the extra money. Go for it and don't look back. Enjoy!
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I would buy a 460mag before I would buy a side lever but that's just me!!! I owned a few 54's their scope eaters!!! and most people end up turning them into a 12ftlb rifle or selling them off, if you don't know how to tune and work on the sled system {recoil} you might want to reconsider 1 of these rifles JMO :P
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I own a .177 and a 20 (modified by Hector Medina) in RWS 54. The .177 will shoot 1.5" groups at 50yds with its favorite Kodiak Match 10.6gr pellet. I have killed hundreds of chipmunks with it but haven't tried anything much larger because I don't have any such nuisance critters around. It has never failed to perform properly for me. I have also shot the 22 caliber version but don't own one. It shot well when I was helping my friend get used to it. I am considering adding a 22 but have quite a bit of work to do on the 20 before I am done wringing it out!
As you can tell from below, I prefer the recoilless types because of the ease of transfer of skills from powder to air. Most springers require a lot of experimentation to learn or develop your own hold for best accuracy. Recoilless - not so much. I find a light hold seems to work best - similar to a bench rest or ammo testing hold.
Range: I flippantly say that air rifles are 10 times more difficult than powder. 10yd equates to 100yd, 50yd to 500yd. 100yd to 1000yd for difficulty. I personally wouldn't shoot at a live target beyond 50yds with any spring powered air rifle but see no problem shooting paper or tin at any range I can see to!
The 20 caliber is a relatively new acquisition and hasn't been shot as much. It is quite accurate. I shot a 5 shot "one hole" group at 50 yds and then foolishly continued to my personal training regime of 10 shots. Used JSB Exact 20 at 13.6gr. Next five opened the group to about 1.4" - wind kicked up a bit.
The sledge mechanism works fine. Occasional drop of oil to keep the rods slick doesn't hurt. (Only done mine twice in 10yr)
An interesting thing that happens sometimes. the bore or something gets cranky and 5 or so shots are needed to clear its throat for best accuracy. I will sometimes shoot into the back stop to get it settled down. I also keep a spinner target set up (various target sizes) and shoot a few shots at those before getting serious.
The T06 trigger arrangement has a pretty long first stage as delivered, 1 lb pull about 3/8", with a easily found and held second stage that is about 1.5lb. You can tinker with the trigger pull if you wish but I don't recommend it for what you said you wanted.
Scopes and mounts. My .177 has the standard RWS LockDown Droop compensated mount The 20 has the ZR base. Both have good quality, but not horridly expensive, scopes. Neither scope has had an issue with holding zero, or being damaged. When I got the .177 about 10yr ago, it had the RWS 4-12 scope designed for the rifle. About two years ago, it started getting funny so I replaced it with the scope noted below. I have no idea how much the rifle had been shot before I got it so can't say about its durability. I think something is loose in the objective on this one because it seemed out of focus. A light tap with a knuckle brought it back into focus and zero was still OK. The ZR base seems oK to this time. Only 800 or so shots through it thus far. I am always leery of moving parts in a scope base so am watching it pretty closely. I use a Wheeler FAT torque wrench to set all screws. Nothing much moves after my version of correct torques. (15-18inlb on rings, 35inlb on clamping base to the permanent rail. 35inlb or higher on the stock screws.
The scope problem may be made worse by the very large heavy scopes with sidewheels that may make it so heavy that the whiplash motion is made worse. This is my theory. I use smaller scopes so I can keep the distance between the bore axis and the scope axis minimized. That helps reduce the droop caused by geometry and may make the scope killing less common.
Pellets: Test a bunch of pellets to find your favorite. I suggest the Straightshooters sampler kit in either 177 or 22, depending on your choice. They come with 25 of 18 or so different pellets. I prefer a bit on the heavier size. I don't like the non-lead or composite pellets as they didn't perform well in my tests. I did a series of tests totally 104 tests with about 75 different pellets in both my 54 and my FWB300. Don't buy into the high velocity craze. The best range seems to be between 800-900f/s for accuracy and energy. Supersonic velocities didn't give acceptable accuracy.
For some pretty good independent views on the performance go to the straightshooters.com website. Prices aren't the lowest but are competitive. Find the RWS 54 or 56, click on the product and find a tab marked OUR TAKE. It will give you a pretty good summary of their experience in testing the rifles and measured velocities and energies for a host of pellets they have tested. They don't quote accuracy since your results will depend on your abilities and skills. Also, on their main page, the right hand column is a series of articles on air rifle shooting. Start at the top and work your way to the bottom for a good basic education on air-gunning without the hype you sometimes find on other sites.
Stock: your choice. Both are heavy beasts!! Cocking can be a chore in a long session but you get a pretty high power air rifle without many extra tools needed to keep it running. I broke my neck a few years ago and had to set all guns aside until that all healed. The 54 was ready to go after a zero check with a year lay off.
Have a great time with your new toy!
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I own a 54 in .22, tuned to 19.75fpe for hunter class FT. Before tuning it was almost 23fpe. I used it with a SWFA SS 10X42 and it worked perfectly well. I have since gone to a Hawke Airmax 8-32X56 and it still works well. I am using the Diana DNT06 mount. The 54 is a solid platform and capable of sub MOA accuracy, easily. Disassembly requires a bit of ingenuity; you'll need to carve an adaptor for the spring compressor. A proper trigger tune is also quite nice. Otherwise, there is enough information on YouTube to keep you out of trouble. As for the 54 vs 56 debate? Personal preference.
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I have the 54 and I choose to use the standard front sight in conjunction with a Williams FP-AG-TK rear peep.
it is accurate enough to do most of what I do with that set up. with my aging eyesight I know I would be better off to scope it.
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I would skip the 54/56 and get a 12fpe version, in 177, of the HW97 from Krale. Your target shooting in your backyard with an air rifle. It has zero to do with power. It has everything to do with learning how to shoot tiny groups from 10-50 yards.
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Hello,
I've been shooting powderburners since young, but now I live somewhere with a big back yard and thought I should start shooting at home, rather than have to going up to the hills or the range. However, that means an air rifle. I want something accurate to 50 yards (RWS 54/56?), not too expensive when it comes to the whole package (RWS 54/56?), can shoot with a bipod (RWS 54/56?), can sit around for a long time without shooting it (RWS 54/56?- I don't want a project gun or something to fiddle with), can take out a possum (RWS 54/56 in .22?), AND not too hold sensitive (RWS 54/56?)...
Part of me would like to get a PCP, but I don't want to spend too much money $1000 tops! and I concerned about long long term reliability and it sitting around for long periods of time not being shot...maybe even years...?
And of course pat of me is tempted to buy something like a $200 gas ram, but think I might not be satisfied with accuracy (esp out to longer ranges), and hold sensitivity
Thanks for the advice and knowledge,
SamK
For $1000 you could get an Umarex gauntlet, a nice scope, a tank, fill adapter and a ton of pellets.
I sell a fully tuned gauntlet in .22 at 20+ fpe with an extended 23 cubic inch bottle, four total magazines, trigger work, full polish of internals and mods. For $425 plus shipping.
Tank will cost $150-200 on eBay, an air fill whip will run $50 on eBay and a good hawke 4-16 or 6-24 side focus scope will run you $150 on dvor.
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Following with great interest.
The RWS54 question that is.
Mitch
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SammyK
Each one of us is biased towards those things that have proven successful in our own experience.
So, in a way, all the answers you have gotten are correct. And also not TOTALLY correct.
To be totally correct, they need to be interpreted under YOUR needs and wants. And only you can do that.
Both 54 and 56 are good guns. IN GENERAL, the 54 can be more accurate than the 56 for two reasons: The thumbhole stock makes it harder to shoot well, and the large weight in front needs a lot of work to be REALLY accurate and will be pellet finicky.
Apart from that it is the same "platform".
Also IN GENERAL, if you leave a PCP unattended for a year or two, odds are that it will not be full and the seals will not be at their best. Like ALL things in life, what you do not use, you loose.
Same goes for springers, the difference is that the springers will "recover" from a long period of inactivity after a few shots. Not so the PCP's.
If you buy a PCP, you are buying only HALF the system. Even buying a tank does not get you an eternal power supply. Springers are self-contained and the more you use them, the better they (and you) get.
In my long term tests, a springer that is used 10 shots per month, will keep pretty good for years and years. I cannot say that about PCP's, not even about $3,000 PCP's.
In any case, YOU still need to squeeze the trigger, and the springer will let you know real fast if you are messing up. A PCP is more forgiving and will allow some vices and bad habits to creep into your shooting form.
For $1,000 you can get a lifetime of shooting if you buy a 54, a ZR mount and a medium-quality scope.
A good regime for a springer is a minimum of 1,000 shots per year. At this rate, the spring will last you about 5 years and the seals about 10.
HTH
HM