GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: Crank on July 28, 2018, 09:31:01 PM
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I put this BSA up a while back on the classifieds on one of the other forums since it was languishing unused in the gun safe. I warned people that if it didn't sell, I was going to do something drastic,,,,it didn't sell.
So here I now present to you the BSA SuperTen MKIII "Carbine" in .22cal. with a 250mm barrel and shroud shortened accordingly. I also re-purposed a baffle unit that I had made for testing on another air rifle and does a much better job in this one. It's pressed in place so I unfortunately did not photograph it before I installed it in the shroud tube.
The velocity actually crept up to around 830fps, but I was very pleased that I hadn't lost too much velocity. IIRC, I was around 870fps before the surgery (it's been quite a while since I last chonographed it) Since the picture, I refaced the end of the shroud and hit it with some matte black paint, so it looks better now. Now I will look forward to a session at the range and see how she shoots.
Enjoy!
Mark
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Nice job on the shorty. Have you installed any kind of hammer debounce devise ? I would imagine with that short of a barrel it would not be the most efficient , at least you took care of the noisy part.
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I really, really like that !!
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Hobbyman,
I haven't done anything with it. I bought it used several years ago, took it to the range, it shot okay, then it sat in the safe until now. I was going to sell it since my current affinity is towards bullpups and my only "long" PCP is a Theoben Rapid in .25. Since it didn't sell, this is what happens :o.With the velocity sitting around 830fps out of a 250mm barrel, I'm not seeing efficiency appearing to suffer to bad. Once I get to the range and see what I can manage for shots on a fill, then I'll worry about it. I'm not familiar with a de-bounce issue on these, so I would appreciate your input.
Thanks
NP,
Total invested time was less than 2 hours from tear-down to test fire, so I'm happy with it and it swings much easier. The factory shroud is a very heavy wall tube and I probably knocked close to a pound off of the weight.
Mark
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Man, I Love it!
If you have more baffles for it, loose at least two of the springs. They do nothing but assure the baffles don't come to the exact place on each shot, and use up valuable space for more sound deadening baffles. ;)
How Many mm did you remove from the barrel,and what was the difference in velocity?
This AG now "Looks Right"! 8)
Knife
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Knife,
Again, thanks for the compliments. I did not reuse any of the factory baffles, I had an airstripper/baffle assembly that I had milled out for another application. The barrel is about 9" shorter and the shroud about 10".
Like I said, it has been years since I put a pellet through it and just as long since a chronograph session, so my best guess is about a 40fps loss.
This is the only .22 PCP I have, so it doesn't have any competition. The accuracy never seemed particularly stellar and looking at the crown it was rather roughly done from the factory. I've spent over 30 years gunsmithing and all of those silly accurate PB rifles out there don't have choked barrels, so I wasn't too concerned about eliminating it from this one.
Mark
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Pellets and bullets are two different animals. some pellet rifles shoot just as good unchoked and some dont. From what I have read is that the hammer forged BSA barrels dont have a single point in the barrel that is choked. Instead the bore slowly tapers down from the breech to the muzzle. The most famous BSA smith and designer of some of the parts John Bowkett says to never cut a bsa barrel off at the muzzle end but instead shorten it from the breech end. He knows what hes talking about but I also know things dont always go the way you think they will. It will be interesting to see how this barrel reacts to being cut from the muzzle end.
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That is awesome! ! I love a bottled carbine..
And wish that someone would make a bottle fed bullpup that was around the $500 mark and didnt weigh 10 lbs unscoped!
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It is hard to sell the older generation pcps, they aren't collector's items, just older technology and with the prices of new and used new tech Daystate XLs and Streamlines it's hard to move them unless the price is so low they would be hard to pass up.
Nice job on the modifications, I wish I had the equipment and skill to do things like that.
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That gun looks awesome Mark, nice job. I have always wanted one of these Supertens and saw your listing but I'm left handed. Let us know how she shoots.
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Well, got to the range yesterday and other than reminding myself why I have a quick fill adapter ordered, it's a winner! Got the scope on target quickly, just as the wind was picking up, but even with wind it was keeping the groups around 1/2" at 50yds. I was very happy with it's performance and I'm certain that accuracy improved considerably. That was part of the reason I hadn't shot it much, the accuracy wasn't horrible, just not something I could count on for a "minute of squirrel" at 50yds. My buddy was watching my groups and he kept saying "dead squirrel". The only annoyance was the bolt handle kept coming loose and the knob is pretty small, so I think a custom oversize knob and a bit of Loctite should address that problem. Time to fire up the lathe!
Mark
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Gotta love it when everything comes together,
....again, that gun just looks super sweet.
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Well done, those short BSAs are really nice guns. It's too bad that Ultra is more expensive in US than a Scorpion, you can get one for around 400£ in UK and they are extremely popular there.
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Thanks to both of you for the compliments. It just worked out well that I was able to re-purpose an otherwise functional, but dated model, into something fun and cool looking.
I ordered the quick-fill conversion from Dr. Bob's in the UK and it should be here in another day or two. Pulling the bottle to refill and struggling to screw it on far enough to open the valve was tedious. Now I will be able to air it up like my Theoben and I gain a pressure gauge at the same time. We corresponded back and forth to determine if it would push the bottle too far forward, but he is confident that the original valve was long enough there shouldn't be an issue. I was lucky that he had just gotten another batch of Theoben magazines and had some .25's that weren't listed on his site yet, so I have two more coming along with a replacement plate for another magazine that was missing when I bought the rifle years ago.
rkr,
You have quite the collection of BSA's and I had no clue what the Huub Viking was. I am assuming that is what you have pictured in your avatar.
Mark
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rkr,
You have quite the collection of BSA's and I had no clue what the Huub Viking was. I am assuming that is what you have pictured in your avatar.
Mark
Somehow those BSAs add up over time, I actually have one at works that's made from spares I had lying around :) Huub (the guy who makes HUMA regulators and shrouds) made a short serie of BSA Ultra based bullpups called Viking few years ago before he went big on aftermarket parts, they were rather short measuring at 50-60cm. I managed to get one of them, a great tool for backyard pest control:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4253/35641828621_22de9e3c6a_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WixFUz)200mm-shroud-2_zpse94340df (https://flic.kr/p/WixFUz) by abbababbaccc (https://www.flickr.com/photos/11843711@N08/), on Flickr
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You mentioned a possible bad crown I would have liked to see accuracy tests done with a crown job then after the barrel was cut down. It would have been interesting to know if it was a bad crown and then compare the accuracy between the original length with a good crown and the shorter length. It sounds like its shooting good. We will never know if that particular barrel improved stayed the same or lost accuracy if in fact it had a damaged crown to start with.
I thought about cutting down an S10 I have since its tuned for 12 fpe and has an 18” barrel. I never did cut it because its very accurate. I didnt want to cut from the muzzle end and possibly lose accuracy.
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rkr,
That's a neat little rig, looks similar to the early version of the Lelya, but with the benfit of magazine feeding. Having one of the current Lelyas I think I would like to get an early one also, just because they were so streamlined. My current one is nice, but it's a bit more full figured.
LDP,
You are spot on, a re-crown would likely have made a world of difference keeping it stock length, but when my lathe called out for a sacrifice, here's what happens. It's a safe bet that if there was any potential accuracy loss, it was not enough that I would lose sleep over. Without a doubt, I paid a penalty for velocity, but the handling qualities the rifle has now give it a new lease on life.
Mark
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So I am going to resurrect this thread and yes its for a good reason ;D Crank have you shot the shortened S10 anymore since the last accuracy report you posted after the cut down in this thread?
I finally decided to cut my S10 down from 18" to 10". I took it all apart and figured I would push a pellet thru the bore and check for how tight the choke was and see how far from the muzzle the choke extended. I pushed a JSB 10 gr. pellet thru and it has light contact with the bore the whole length. There were no tight spots and no choke just very light contact the whole distance. I tried an AA 8 gr. pellet and got the same results. So once I found out my bore has no choke it was a go for cutting it down.
I already rebuilt the reg after receiving the S10 turning it from an fac reg to a sub 12 reg. So I should be all set for the shorter barrel except maybe some fine tuning of the hammer spring. I am going to add a full shroud on mine making it look just like the S10 carbine bull barrel model. I hope my accuracy stays the same but we will see. I will make a new thread after the work is done detailing what I have done to my S10 since getting it in a trade a couple years ago.
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So I am going to resurrect this thread and yes its for a good reason ;D Crank have you shot the shortened S10 anymore since the last accuracy report you posted after the cut down in this thread?
I finally decided to cut my S10 down from 18" to 10". I took it all apart and figured I would push a pellet thru the bore and check for how tight the choke was and see how far from the muzzle the choke extended. I pushed a JSB 10 gr. pellet thru and it has light contact with the bore the whole length. There were no tight spots and no choke just very light contact the whole distance. I tried an AA 8 gr. pellet and got the same results. So once I found out my bore has no choke it was a go for cutting it down.
I already rebuilt the reg after receiving the S10 turning it from an fac reg to a sub 12 reg. So I should be all set for the shorter barrel except maybe some fine tuning of the hammer spring. I am going to add a full shroud on mine making it look just like the S10 carbine bull barrel model. I hope my accuracy stays the same but we will see. I will make a new thread after the work is done detailing what I have done to my S10 since getting it in a trade a couple years ago.
Can't wait to see pictures of you short BSA,...love mini-carbines :)
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9-10" is about the shortest you want to go in .177, I have 8" .177 barrel and it needs about 150 bar reg pressure to reach 12 fpe. Those short barrels can be extremely accurate though, I got 0,05" ctc groups at 20 yards with mine. Did you cut the barrel from the breech end?
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LDP,
Well.... short answer is no, I kind of sidetracked myself by ordering a Dr. Bob's "quick-fill" unit and had to do a bit of machine work to the bottle and inlet the wood to keep the bottle just behind the muzzle. However, in the process, I wound up dealing with some troublesome leak issues in the adapter fitment (not the makers fault) and once that appeared to be resolved, now I suspect some internal leakage. The plan will be to completely tear it down and rebuild the regulator and completely reseal the gun.
Life has been a bit hectic on this end, as my daughter is currently trying to get a live donor transplant for her liver, my Mom just had a pacemaker installed and my Dad is trying to schedule another hip replacement. Add a two week trip for my work and another two weeks for a "vacation" and my life is a wee bit scattered at the moment. Not complaining at all, just had slightly more pressing issues to focus on.
Hopefully, once they schedule an exact date, I will have some down time while my daughter and her husband (the donor) recover at my house next month after they are released from the hospital. Since they won't need or want me hovering 24/7, I'll have some time to play in the shop.
Regarding the leakage, since the gun never had a gauge to show what was in the bottle, I'm starting to question if some of the issues I had previously were due to pressure loss. As it sits now, it will lose half the fill in a day or two and be empty in a week. I haven't had any chance to do any airgun stuff for months and the itch is getting to the point it needs to be scratched. I promise I will keep everyone posted about any updates.
Mark
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Crank sorry for all the problems you and your family has been dealing with. I wish you and your daughter the best and Stay strong while you try to find a donor.
rkr I decided to cut off the muzzle end. Its faster to do and I dont have an ID grooving tool to cut the new oring groove if I cut the breach end. I decided to go for it based on the barrel not having any real choke. I pushed pellets completely thru and up to 10” and compared the rifling contact. Regardless of how far thru the bore the pellet is pushed the lands and grooves have the same amount of contact. I feel like accuracy will be the same maybe better and less work going from the muzzle. I will find out soon enough.
Manny Im hoping to have it wrapped up by sunday so pics will be posted soon.
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LDP,
Thanks for the kind words and like I said, I'm not complaining, I feel blessed that I still have all of them here to worry about. My daughter's donor is her husband, after thinking he wasn't a viable donor due to the medical department putting the wrong blood type in his service record they found out he was actually a match. They are finalizing tests so we can get a firm date in December to have the procedure performed. Mom and Dad are still kicking, it's just frustrating to be the only child and on the other end of the country while these things are being dealt with when I would prefer to be there to help. I look at some of the things others have to deal with in their lives and embrace the fact I am blessed with what I have.
Life is precious and enjoy every day you manage to stay on this side of the dirt. I could be the victim of a tragic blimp accident at any time ;) so why worry!
Sorry to get philosophical in my own thread. I think what you did is fantastic and hope that you will share pictures of your BSA surgery. I was curious and pushed a pellet through the stub I cut off and if there was a choke, I'll be danged if I noticed it either. I'm looking forward to figuring out how many shots I'll get once I get the leakage sorted out. I'm considering following your lead and bring down the power to get the shot count up higher and keep it as quiet as possible. Time will tell.
Mark
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Still following Guy's.
I cut 4.5" off the little .22 Maximus last year and recrowned, and removed the choke on the .25 Rainstor II. Both lost no accuracy at all, but got a bonus of the RS now shooting my cast slugs very well!
Awaiting a TJ's bbl. in .257 that I sent to Travis for the o ring groove. He mailed it last Friday, and it is now a Friday later. Starting to get worried. GRRRRR!!!
I feel for the medical issues. My Wife has a genetic disease, that is mostly found in Germany. There were 8 known cases in the US including her, and only 2 remain alive. She was 43 when diagnosed. She is 50 now. So we do indeed feel blessed that she is still with us.
Knife
Knife