GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: dlee on July 28, 2018, 07:38:33 PM
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Recently ordered a 2400kt on the July 4th sale at CCS. Lots of fun and accurate. Foolishly didn't bother to read directions before taking it out and starting to shoot. So, didn't know about not leaving carts in, not overtightening the end cap and not shooting down to zero. Did all three. When I went to change out the cart a week later, it didn't come out. Tried knocking the back end with a rubber mallet, tried using a magnetic pickup tool, tried removing the end cap and firing then even dropping the gun down onto the open end of the tube and letting it hit a pad on the table. No luck.I basically did everything wrong and paid the price.
The upside: forced to take the gun apart and really learn how it goes together. I have the long steel breech which means not being able to just cock the lever back to get at the front breech screw. Instead, one has to slide the cocking lever back further than the hammer pin can move, which in turn means removing the hammer pin which means separating the breech from the tube, etc etc etc. Well, definitely know how it all goes together now. And the cart was *really* stuck onto the piercing pin tightly. Had to pull hard to get it off of there.
From now on, I will bleed the rest of the cart empty when I'm done shooting and take it out. And tighten the end cap just far enough to stop leaks and I'll toss the cart when I start to hear/see the drop in power. Lesson learned.
Currently researching replacement screws for attaching the breech to the tube - mine are now hacked up pretty good since I didn't have the square-holed driver and used an undersized flathead on the slot.
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Recently ordered a 2400kt on the July 4th sale at CCS. Lots of fun and accurate. Foolishly didn't bother to read directions before taking it out and starting to shoot. So, didn't know about not leaving carts in, not overtightening the end cap and not shooting down to zero. Did all three. When I went to change out the cart a week later, it didn't come out. Tried knocking the back end with a rubber mallet, tried using a magnetic pickup tool, tried removing the end cap and firing then even dropping the gun down onto the open end of the tube and letting it hit a pad on the table. No luck.I basically did everything wrong and paid the price.
The upside: forced to take the gun apart and really learn how it goes together. I have the long steel breech which means not being able to just cock the lever back to get at the front breech screw. Instead, one has to slide the cocking lever back further than the hammer pin can move, which in turn means removing the hammer pin which means separating the breech from the tube, etc etc etc. Well, definitely know how it all goes together now. And the cart was *really* stuck onto the piercing pin tightly. Had to pull hard to get it off of there.
From now on, I will bleed the rest of the cart empty when I'm done shooting and take it out. And tighten the end cap just far enough to stop leaks and I'll toss the cart when I start to hear/see the drop in power. Lesson learned.
Currently researching replacement screws for attaching the breech to the tube - mine are now hacked up pretty good since I didn't have the square-holed driver and used an undersized flathead on the slot.
I’m guilty too, did it on my 2300KT.
I drilled a tek Screw into the bottom of the cart and used pliers. I don’t leave them in after they are empty any more ;)
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As told on here I use a drop of pellgun oil on cart...not saying its the thing to do but Ive left carts in for months and zero problems.....good luck
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I have a CP2 from SPA. It has a hole in the air tube so you can get to the nose of a stuck C02 cart. I'll be doing this to all my C02 guns. It only needs to be big enough to get a pick or something in there to pry the cart loose.
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As told on here I use a drop of pellgun oil on cart...not saying its the thing to do but Ive left carts in for months and zero problems.....good luck
This is exactly what I did with both my 2240 and 2400KT over the winter. Nary a problem, I'd say.
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I shot my 2400kt for the first time yesterday. I get about 20 fairly consistent shots before it tails off. After 25 I consider the CO2 gone and change it out. I too didn’t realize about not leaving the cartridge in, so left cart in overnight. Guess I have a job to do after my morning cuppa.
Zeroed scope (as best I can, given my inconsistent technique, even bag rested) at 20 yards. It’s so easy compared to my springer, in the Carolina heat. The RWS34 is either done for good or done till winter.
The trigger is heavier than I would like. I’ll give it a little time then adjust the brass thingy before I consider proper mod / replacement.
Robbo
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Think you got the hang of it now.
I'd add the tiny drop of lube to the nose of the cartridge, but stick to stuff that's firendly to o-ring type materials. Every one has their favorite lube, but if you want to shot local (and cheap) pneumatic tool oil (the stuff used in air nailers/air wrenches/etc). can be had pretty cheaply by the pint (which would be a lifetime supply if never used but in the tiny flea sized drops on a 12gr.)....which is the same thing as Paintball gun luve (just sold in little bottles at WallyWorld).
The real killer in 12gr. guns is dirt/grit. To load it, we have to open it, so it's not a sealed system. The metal 12gr. cartridges going in should be really clean; being blown though the valve at that pressure makes even little bits of grit seal-slicers (after all, a sandblaster ususally only runs at 80-110psi).
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As told on here I use a drop of pellgun oil on cart...not saying its the thing to do but Ive left carts in for months and zero problems.....good luck
Non detergent 30W oil works just as well and a quart will last you a lifetime!
https://www.oreillyauto.com/shop/b/oil-16865/motor-oil---conventional-16605/non-detergent-17713/aa85c2209666?q=Non-Detergent (https://www.oreillyauto.com/shop/b/oil-16865/motor-oil---conventional-16605/non-detergent-17713/aa85c2209666?q=Non-Detergent)
They say Pellgun oil is the aforesaid.
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Recently ordered a 2400kt on the July 4th sale at CCS. Lots of fun and accurate. Foolishly didn't bother to read directions before taking it out and starting to shoot. So, didn't know about not leaving carts in, not overtightening the end cap and not shooting down to zero. Did all three. When I went to change out the cart a week later, it didn't come out. Tried knocking the back end with a rubber mallet, tried using a magnetic pickup tool, tried removing the end cap and firing then even dropping the gun down onto the open end of the tube and letting it hit a pad on the table. No luck.I basically did everything wrong and paid the price.
The upside: forced to take the gun apart and really learn how it goes together. I have the long steel breech which means not being able to just cock the lever back to get at the front breech screw. Instead, one has to slide the cocking lever back further than the hammer pin can move, which in turn means removing the hammer pin which means separating the breech from the tube, etc etc etc. Well, definitely know how it all goes together now. And the cart was *really* stuck onto the piercing pin tightly. Had to pull hard to get it off of there.
From now on, I will bleed the rest of the cart empty when I'm done shooting and take it out. And tighten the end cap just far enough to stop leaks and I'll toss the cart when I start to hear/see the drop in power. Lesson learned.
Currently researching replacement screws for attaching the breech to the tube - mine are now hacked up pretty good since I didn't have the square-holed driver and used an undersized flathead on the slot.
I bought these:
https://onlinestore.magnumairpower.com/products/custom-breech-screw
..but I was not able to use them because I use Don Cothran breeches. Each breech comes complete with a rear plug, extra o-rings. probe and handle of your choice, and 2 breech-tube star-type countersunk screws, which work very well even on 13xx/forward/old location screws. I emphasized countersunk because it means that they are wide on top.
I also bought these:
https://onlinestore.magnumairpower.com/products/custom-22xx-valve-screw
..as 2240/2250/2400KT valves are kinda wiggly.
On my previous CCS guns in Asia, I had the valves reinforced using this method prior to having them reblued:
(https://i.imgur.com/LOfqIoX.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/SfEOSAc.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/BIWWbGL.jpg)
Valve covers are very thick, so you can have them drilled and tapped.
Mine are drilled/tapped from the top and bottom, so the screw holes are not visible and hidden by the trigger frame and the breech.
Others do it on the sides like the ones on the Discovery tube:
(https://i.imgur.com/3G7yEYs.jpg)
I do not like looking at those visible screws though but Magnum Air Power has those ss torx screws, which would look nice when debbured and polished:
https://onlinestore.magnumairpower.com/products/custom-discovery-valve-screws
To reiterate, 2250/2400kt/2240 valves are loose as is with that slotted OEM screw at the bottom--being not wide enough to sit in the tube snugly. This screw and the port reinforced by a gasket are the only ones holding them. I bet the valve moves when the hammer slams home. Probably this will affect ES.
With the set screw mod, the valve reinforcement becomes very solid.
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Thanks to everyone for the advice and feedback - glad that others who have tread the same path are willing to share their wisdom. I did use pellgun oil on the tip of the cart before inserting - must just be that I did everything else wrong afterward! Anyway, it pulled free after disassembly, but was very hard to pull off the pin. Really hard - no way it was going to come off with any of the techniques I had tried prior to taking the thing apart. Live and learn.
Rick67- thanks for the links to upgraded/replacement breech screws. Question: are you getting valve slippage shooting CO2 or are you converted over to HPA and higher pressures? My ES isn't terrible so valve slippage isn't showing itself in shot-to-shot variation. But the gun is still new so maybe I'll see it as I get more rounds through it? I'm willing to pin the valve with extra screws if it needs it, and certainly will if I convert to HPA - but kinda hoping it isn't necessary on a straight up stock gun.
Also, is it the case that Crosman uses the same breech for both .177 and .22 versions (ie, same barrel outer diam) - can someone tell me if that is true? That is, if I don't care about tuning or efficiency or anything else, would I just need to purchase a .22 barrel and replace my current .177 barrel?
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found the answer to my 2nd question in an older thread - it's the same same breech. just need a different barrel and bolt probe.
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David, right you are regarding breeches--only the probe differs.
No, mine are straight C02s but aside from bling, I like mine over engineered. I do not like slop, hence the mods.
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I have a CP2 from SPA. It has a hole in the air tube so you can get to the nose of a stuck C02 cart. I'll be doing this to all my C02 guns. It only needs to be big enough to get a pick or something in there to pry the cart loose.
Happened to me a week ago with my CP2. However, i punched the rod so hard i scratched the inside of the tube. Its not visible of course, but it broke my heart to scar my little one.