GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Benjamin Airguns => Topic started by: PCPhack on July 06, 2018, 12:21:48 PM
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I do not have my Bulldog yet, but having seen the tear down pictures and videos, I don't understand why more people are not bedding down the barrel and supporting it more. It seems like it would do wonders for accuracy. Sure, there are what look like plastic printed (please correct me if I am wrong) barrel supports available from Pitbull, but why not do more? Seeing how the entire shroud slides onto the rest of the gun, why hot thread several screws through the shroud, which can then tighten it to the rest of the gun, while also adding a lot more in the way of barrel support inside, such that once the shroud is clamped down (pinching the track it sits in), so too is the barrel bedded down all along the shroud. This should also help since the scope is mounted on that shroud.
How about then also stiffening those plastic side panels?
It seems like just a bit of work can turn it into a great platform also for 100 yard shooting, if you don't mind the looks too much. I see reports that it is a 3 or 4 MOA gun. I would think the above changes could make it at least a 2 MOA or better gun.
I also don't see why Pitbull is selling a regulator with only a 100cc or so plenum. Why not offer a much larger one, that yes will limit the shot count, but for hunting, if you need more than a few, you should go practice more. I suppose I could just practice with one at 2600psi or so, and then just hunt like that, since 3 or so shots mid curve should be about the same (as well as very accurate) and just forget a regulator. I don't like the 3 and 4 MOA reviews, as I would want 1 or 2 at most. I like power, but also accuracy.
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Also, I realize the shroud has a bottom, but one could perhaps slice it for a few inches fore and aft of each tightening screw. The main idea is to cause the barrel to be tightly bonded to the shroud...say two of those Pitbull barrel support kits, but slice them also, so that once the shroud is pinched, the barrel also becomes bound up?
Another idea is to just embed the entire barrel in adhesive (or maybe silicone) and make it one with the shroud.
A third idea is to just lose the shroud, and give the barrel a really thick carbon fiber jacket. Is there room to drill out the receiver enough for a CF sleeve?
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A regulator on a Bulldog?.... Might be OK if you want to shoot pellets, but the manufacturers have to learn the relationship between plenum volume and FPE.... ::)
Bob
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A regulator on a Bulldog?.... Might be OK if you want to shoot pellets, but the manufacturers have to learn the relationship between plenum volume and FPE.... ::)
Bob
I would only be using slugs, but I am just commenting on various ways to accurize the platform. It seems powerful enough, but from all I have read so far, it could use a bit of accurizing, and am curious what all methods have been tried by someone on the Bulldog, and what the results were. Surely someone has gotten it to MOA already, for 4 shots? All the review I see look like 3 or 4 MOA.
I love my Brods and all, but for crawling around hunting and such, I want a lever cocking rifle, and also a repeater. The Bulldog could be the one.
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I too would like to see a scope mounting system more solid to the barrel to reduce possible alignment errors.
There was a thread about a year ago where I suggested the shell halves could be possibly filled with expanding for foam to increase rigidity. I also mentioned it would be cool if a better chassis could be made and sold. Maybe even a standard configuration instead of bullpup. ;D
Taso
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I too would like to see a scope mounting system more solid to the barrel to reduce possible alignment errors.
There was a thread about a year ago where I suggested the shell halves could be possibly filled with expanding for foam to increase rigidity. I also mentioned it would be cool if a better chassis could be made and sold. Maybe even a standard configuration instead of bullpup. ;D
Taso
I was thinking the same a while ago- but you'd have to come up w/a new trigger design if you wanted a conventional rifle.
I think a stock can be mounted in the traditional way, if a Pitbull Airguns (PA) longer reservoir is installed... The Bulldog's original fill point (in the rear) is plugged, because the PA tube fills from the front (it uses Airbow parts). Now, if a plug/stock mount is machined, a stock can be mounted in the traditional way. This way, you could make a better looking stock, w/barrel bands that mount a scope rail, like normal bullpups. This is the way I'm going. IMO, why redesign it? Just use what's there- i.e. bullpup configuration and parts. Besides- the Bulldog as a conventional rifle would be really long... 30" barrel? I had that w/a Condor. No thanks.
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I bought a BD and am having it modified by a tuner. There are some videos and reports showing the BD to be off-switch accurate in 50 yards with the right slugs.
But the BD is not a fine air rifle. Its a mass production blunt insturment. I don't see why anyone would expect MOA at all.
As for bracing the barrel, It might work. I like barrel bracing for stability, but Im not totally convinced it makes for better accuracy.
I have read more than once when air rifle barrels were left unsupported and more accurate for it. That was for .177-.25 barrels. Large calibers may be different.
In the case of the BD which uses air strippers or sound control, the use of a barrel support is a necessity.
In my case, I having the barrel shortened. We shall see how that turns out.
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I certainly get your point, but also don't believe mass production and MOA quality are mutually exclusive. In this case, I will be happy with 2 MOA. I believe MOA is doable with the right modifications, tune, and slugs.
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I made a Bulldog into a rifle for a Russian gentleman over a year ago and fitted it nicely into a thumb hole stock it wasn’t that hard to be honest. What was hard was getting it to group well. We solved that by using a tensioned barrel system and re barreling it with a faster twist barrel. I sent pictures to my friend at Crosman who showed it to others their that’s the last I heard about it. I’m sure it’s getting lots of use where ever it is. It was the most expensive build I’ve done to date. Don’t Ask.
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I am surprised you went to a faster twist. I thought that I read that the factory barrel is already quite a fast twist.
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The Bulldog has a 1in 14 RH twist with 6 land and groves.
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I made a Bulldog into a rifle for a Russian gentleman over a year ago and fitted it nicely into a thumb hole stock it wasn’t that hard to be honest. What was hard was getting it to group well. We solved that by using a tensioned barrel system and re barreling it with a faster twist barrel. I sent pictures to my friend at Crosman who showed it to others their that’s the last I heard about it. I’m sure it’s getting lots of use where ever it is. It was the most expensive build I’ve done to date. Don’t Ask.
Travis, Can I ask for those pics? :D just curious.
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I made a Bulldog into a rifle for a Russian gentleman over a year ago and fitted it nicely into a thumb hole stock it wasn’t that hard to be honest. What was hard was getting it to group well. We solved that by using a tensioned barrel system and re barreling it with a faster twist barrel. I sent pictures to my friend at Crosman who showed it to others their that’s the last I heard about it. I’m sure it’s getting lots of use where ever it is. It was the most expensive build I’ve done to date. Don’t Ask.
Travis, Can I ask for those pics? :D just curious.
I only had hard photos( old school) last time I saw them was when I mailed them to Crosman when Chip worked there. Sorry
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Sounds legendary and mythical. ;)
I am curious how a different barrel, tensioned against that trapezoid shroud, would perform compared to the factory setup.
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I specifically haven’t posted about it due to no digital photos but the accuracy issues hold true and if I was to do another build I’d do it the same using a faster twist barrel and tensioning it. The trapezoid shroud could be used if you added extra retaining screws at rear it only has one and cut down the shroud in front and threaded barrel for a tensioned nut and bellville stack though it would probably look weird. If I was going to keep it a pup I would cut the top off the trapezoid and use bottom half to cover opening then just build a traditional carbon tensioned shroud with threaded LDC
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Might just keep it as a bush hog blaster as is. ;)
Still hope for 2 MOA though with the right setup. I would like to hit within an inch at 50 yards.
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I specifically haven’t posted about it due to no digital photos but the accuracy issues hold true and if I was to do another build I’d do it the same using a faster twist barrel and tensioning it. The trapezoid shroud could be used if you added extra retaining screws at rear it only has one and cut down the shroud in front and threaded barrel for a tensioned nut and bellville stack though it would probably look weird. If I was going to keep it a pup I would cut the top off the trapezoid and use bottom half to cover opening then just build a traditional carbon tensioned shroud with threaded LDC
What twist rate?
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I specifically haven’t posted about it due to no digital photos but the accuracy issues hold true and if I was to do another build I’d do it the same using a faster twist barrel and tensioning it. The trapezoid shroud could be used if you added extra retaining screws at rear it only has one and cut down the shroud in front and threaded barrel for a tensioned nut and bellville stack though it would probably look weird. If I was going to keep it a pup I would cut the top off the trapezoid and use bottom half to cover opening then just build a traditional carbon tensioned shroud with threaded LDC
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Travis, you just reposted your other message.
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Might just keep it as a bush hog blaster as is. ;)
Still hope for 2 MOA though with the right setup. I would like to hit within an inch at 50 yards.
I think that's doable out of the box with the right ammo and pressure. The Benjamin Nosslers seem to be a very good match up. The JSbs are that with a tune.
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I specifically haven’t posted about it due to no digital photos but the accuracy issues hold true and if I was to do another build I’d do it the same using a faster twist barrel and tensioning it. The trapezoid shroud could be used if you added extra retaining screws at rear it only has one and cut down the shroud in front and threaded barrel for a tensioned nut and bellville stack though it would probably look weird. If I was going to keep it a pup I would cut the top off the trapezoid and use bottom half to cover opening then just build a traditional carbon tensioned shroud with threaded LDC
What twist rate?
I think the key here is, " if I was to do another build I’d do it the same using a faster twist", which translates to me that since it can be done better, he doesn't want to say what was done, but what could be done, but hasn't been done, so he can't say what it is now. Perfectionists are like that.
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Lol.
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Might just keep it as a bush hog blaster as is. ;)
Still hope for 2 MOA though with the right setup. I would like to hit within an inch at 50 yards.
I think that's doable out of the box with the right ammo and pressure. The Benjamin Nosslers seem to be a very good match up. The JSbs are that with a tune.
I believe so too, especially if I do any practicing while tethered at a set pressure. The first shot while hunting is what matters most of course.
The real challenge is keeping my fingers out of it between hunting trips. ;D
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I made a Bulldog into a rifle for a Russian gentleman over a year ago and fitted it nicely into a thumb hole stock it wasn’t that hard to be honest. What was hard was getting it to group well. We solved that by using a tensioned barrel system and re barreling it with a faster twist barrel. I sent pictures to my friend at Crosman who showed it to others their that’s the last I heard about it. I’m sure it’s getting lots of use where ever it is. It was the most expensive build I’ve done to date. Don’t Ask.
Travis, Can I ask for those pics? :D just curious.
I only had hard photos( old school) last time I saw them was when I mailed them to Crosman when Chip worked there. Sorry
:( Bet it was cool though.
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Travis, you just reposted your other message.
I’m having log on and connection issues so I’m limited to short responses. I emailed Surgey and asked for photos and build details I believe we used a 1/7 twist barrel but not sure as I’m laid up in bed after spinal injections and Dez is trying to figure out the log on problem .
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=145630.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=145630.0)
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Travis, you just reposted your other message.
I’m having log on and connection issues so I’m limited to short responses. I emailed Surgey and asked for photos and build details I believe we used a 1/7 twist barrel but not sure as I’m laid up in bed after spinal injections and Dez is trying to figure out the log on problem .
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=145630.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=145630.0)
Aw, snap! Sorry to hear that. And wildfires and shipping valves. You guys are busy! Im glad Im supporting you!
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I am to Scott. Now is there anyone tec savvy who can help me get back online? If so please follow link I provided to Lizzys help desk