GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: bryan123 on June 25, 2018, 11:52:22 AM
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Hello, I suspect there isn't a good answer to this question but please indulge a newbie.
I'm a middle aged guy who recently picked up a Daisy Red Ryder because I had one as a kid and because my girlfriend was a US Army sharpshooter in the Gulf War. Lots of fun plinking and target shooting.
Except for a rare opportunity to drive 25 miles to the indoor range, our options are limited to her back yard which isn't that big, and my standard one-car garage. The RR is lots of fun but it would be more fun I think to shoot with a BB gun that was more accurate. I considered the 499B but it's a single shot and I like the RR because I don't have to load one BB at a time.
I also considered the 880 but I've read reports that the RR is actually more accurate in terms of BB's (I'm aware that pellets in the 880 would be more accurate that BB's in the RR).
Any suggestions for a more accurate BB rifle than the RR that's not a single shot?
Thanks
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Hi Bryan. Take a look at the Mosin Nagant in BB. It's super fun to shoot and mine is a little more accurate than the Red Ryder.
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Hi Bryan. Take a look at the Mosin Nagant in BB. It's super fun to shoot and mine is a little more accurate than the Red Ryder.
Thanks for the tip I checked it out. BTW that's quite a collection you have!
Were you referring to the CO2 rifle that costs $299 on PA?
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Hi Bryan. Take a look at the Mosin Nagant in BB. It's super fun to shoot and mine is a little more accurate than the Red Ryder.
Thanks for the tip I checked it out. BTW that's quite a collection you have!
Were you referring to the CO2 rifle that costs $299 on PA?
No problem... I've been building my collection for years. Yes, That's it. It's an expensive gun but I love it. I think I bought mine from BudK as it was a little cheaper than PA at the time.
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Might sound silly, why not try a decent little pellet gun? They are much much more accurate then the BB. There so many to choose from that will pop paint balls all day long at the ranges you are talking. For around my house I like pump guns because I can easily adjust the power, I have a 1322 that is a real shooter and fun to shoot. It was suggested to me to try a 880, and it is accurate and really fun. (though it can be a pain to load.) But it is a gun that wont break the bank that you can hit something with.
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Might sound silly, why not try a decent little pellet gun? They are much much more accurate then the BB. There so many to choose from that will pop paint balls all day long at the ranges you are talking. For around my house I like pump guns because I can easily adjust the power, I have a 1322 that is a real shooter and fun to shoot. It was suggested to me to try a 880, and it is accurate and really fun. (though it can be a pain to load.) But it is a gun that wont break the bank that you can hit something with.
I second that.
Or look into the Gamo Swarm Maxxim. It's a pellet repeater. A bit more powerful than what you're looking for but it has a fully shrouded barrel so it is pretty quiet.
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For some really useful information, see https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/library/Introduction%20to%20Adult%20Airgunning.htm (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/library/Introduction%20to%20Adult%20Airgunning.htm)
There are other articles in the Library that could also be helpful to you.
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If considering a pellet rifle the Crosman 1077 makes for a decent backyard plinker. Looks like a 10-22, uses CO2, takes a rotary magazine, and has a rifled barrel and usually sells for around $70.00
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Thanks for the suggestions so far.
We had an opportunity to try the Swarm Maxim at the indoor range. Didn't enjoy it. Too heavy and the break barrel was too difficult to break.
The 880 is single shot as far as pellets are concerned. If single shot was something I could live with I would choose the Daisy 499B, since accurate BB's is what I'm gunning for (pun intended)
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Check out the Daisy 74...co2 semi auto...LOP not to bad....can be modded and fun little shooter...good luck
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Why not just buy the Cheif AJ adult sized stock for these red Ryder's ?
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I’ve never had any of these products. But my understanding is people put the Avanti 499 shot tube/barrel into a slicked up daisy model 25. Or something like that.
I think the model 25 is the usual answer to the adult B.B. gun question.
Or maybe the Umarex Morph?
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I did some bb gun accuracy tests a while ago, and a new model 25 and old Crosman Saddle Pal were two repeaters with 499 class accuracy.
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=106855.msg1014555#msg1014555 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=106855.msg1014555#msg1014555)
Disclaimer: I'm not sure if my results were typical, and there are plenty of guns I didn't test.
Good luck!
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I have a new Crosman 76. Well, maybe a year and a half old. I had done some testing with BB's, and wasn't impressed, and had been shooting pellets ever since. Just today out of the blue, I decided to retest Daisy pellets in that 760. Don't know why, but I shot a heck of a 5 shot group at 7 yards. I checked after each shot, and got three into a nice tight cloverleaf. Then shot two more, and the cloverleaf hole didn't get any larger. Easily a small enough group for rat head shots off a rest at 7 yards.
I'll try this again the next time I shoot, but I never thought the 760 could do it. Pick up one at WM for from $25 to maybe $35 and don't get the one with the tiny 4x15 scope, as it's just junk. I have a decent 4x32 AO scope on mine, and it's a good match for the 760. The 760 has a built in BB magazine, and a 5 round pellet magazine should you try pellets.
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Soooooooo, maybe I am just being too much of a simpleton.
Why not an 880 with pellets?
Oh...I see...the single shot issue, I guess.
I recommend a little daisy 953 target shooter and pellets, if you can find one. It has a "magazine".
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I also recomend the 880. It is probably the best value in airgunning you can get locally. Easy to pump, powerful if needed and accurate. Pellets are a big improvement over BBs in accuracy and less chance of ricochet.
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I find that BBs bounce back at me, well maybe that's fair, but still annoying.
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The 880 is a fun pumper to have. Yes it's a single shot but with pellets it's an accurate little pumper. Plenty of CO2 guns out there as well that would fit your style. I myself not a big fan of having my ammo bounce back at me. Good Luck. ;)
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Kris, since you already own most of the best prospects, what do you think about
Crosman
1377(30+ years)
1322
2240
66
1077
2300kt.177
2400kt.177
1720T
G1 Extreme .177
Vigilante
Venom .22
Win M14
RWS 34
Urban.22
Daisy 1000, 717, 880
Umarex Fusion .177, Gauntlet .22
Wildfire.177
Maxi.177
Disco.22
Prod.22
Gen 2 Mrod .25
Colt PM LE
Auto Air ll .177
S&W M&P 45 .177
P-17, QB78 .22 & .177
Benji Trail NP Pistol .177
D E Pistol .177
Sig Sauer P250.177, MCX.177
Rex P .357
Hatsan 25 pistol .22, 1000x .25, 135 QE .30
Carnivore
909 and Recluse
?
Especially the better ones for target practice.
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Nothing wrong with Crosman if you want to go that route. Plenty of inexpensive guns to choose from. Parts are easy to get, plenty of mod parts out there if you like to tinker. Most are accurate right out of the box and with practice they are very fun to shoot. It just depends on what you are looking for and how much of your wallet you want to let go of.
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I didn't mean to say crosman, that's just your list of options. I think that a co2 repeater would be close to the OP. Sig MCX?
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I didn't mean to say crosman, that's just your list of options. I think that a co2 repeater would be close to the OP. Sig MCX?
Sorry, the mcx does well at 30yds, further out things go south on accuracy. As a repeater, it does well. No jam issues if you follow sig's instructions to the t. Using co2 in it and rapid shooting will cause some jamming issues and it will freeze up for sure. Won't have that with HPA set up. Magazines are not that expensive. H&N, JSB, RWS, and Daisy wad cutters do well in this gun, Crosman wadcutters are a little to hard in composition and will not seat well in the mag chain. I haven't had the chance to chrony it. On PA, it averages close to 500 fps. Cost wise, it runs about $200 without the hpa kit, add another $100 for hpa kit. On the other hand, the Crosman 1077 is a nice plinker/repeater gun which uses the 12 gram carts. It's accurate and easy to shoot. Carts can bought on sale dirt cheap. Wadcutters is the best ammo for this gun. The average cost of this gun is $50 to $70 depending on where you buy it.
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I think the Daisy 880 is a good value. While I can only go buy my experiences with mine. Mine is a bit of a lemon plain and simple. It is only about as accurate with pellets as my smooth bore Crosman 760. My 880 is horrible with BB's. The smooth bore 760 has surprised me with it's BB accuracy. The 880 looks great, is reliable, not very expensive, and most owners rave about them. But, I think you were asking about a BB shooter. I think a smooth bore BB gun will shoot them better than a rifled one. The 760 seems to be a good choice for that. Mine has tossed well over 2000 pellets down range with no hint of a problem.
If you decide you'd rather go with pellets, then there are better choices.
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499 is great for those times when you want to stack BBs. The Daisy 25 is a great 50 shot action rifle. Generally keeps all shots in the black on a bb target at 5 meters. Mine will shoot lead BBs and I think the new BBs that break to powder.
You might also consider the Hannel 310 available on the used market and relive the James Bond shooting gallery scene.
My Grandson and I hung some fishing bobers for moving targets. The goal was to see how long you can keep your bober moving. We shot until we were sore and even felt it the next day. Great fun and a great idea for small places.
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WAY out of my wheel house, but all I can think of is a Crosman 761XL or a 2100 both are a BB repeater, but a multi pump.
What about a Crosman Model 73 Saddle Pal lever action? It was a 16 shot BB repeater and CO2.
(https://www.bakerairguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/DSCN2783.jpg)
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I want to get one of these when I grow up ;D
https://www.crosman.com/airguns/air-rifles/dpms-sbr-full-auto-black (https://www.crosman.com/airguns/air-rifles/dpms-sbr-full-auto-black)
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I am not really a fan of BB's, but your question got me curious. I did a search on PA, limited the search to. .177, 450-700fps,0-300$,repeater. It showed me 2 rifles in various configurations. The Daisy 5880 and the Crossman 1077. Of the 2 that 1077 looks like it fills all your needs. Not BB's but ,117 pellet in a 12 round mag. C02 so you don't have to pump it up. Just point and shoot. Basic rifle comes in at $65.95 and if you pick up this one https://www.pyramydair.com/product/perfect-ten-77-crosman-1077?m=2856 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/perfect-ten-77-crosman-1077?m=2856) you get a nice package for $95.95. Check out the review vid at the bottom from ol Paul. Don't know whatever happened to him. I liked his reviews.
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This morning I saw Legends has a lever action as well that is still made.
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/legends-cowboy-lever-action-co2-bb-air-rifle?m=4566 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/legends-cowboy-lever-action-co2-bb-air-rifle?m=4566)
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How about the Daisy 1200? No longer made...It's just a thought,...it's a CO2 pistol that holds up to 60 bb's, but you do have to cock it each time.
The older ones have fully adjustable rear sights. Some have mounted optics to theirs. Up around 450 FPS. They are a blast to shoot.
They can be found on the bay.
(sorry,just realized you're looking for a rifle.)
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The 1077 is okay. Pretty loud, and not that accurate though. The trigger is horrible too.
For $25-$30 or so, I'll stick to the Crosman 760 that doesn't come with a scope. I like to have one multi pump BB rifle that can be easily scoped. The 7 yard 5 shot group with 8 pumps and Daisy BB's measured 5/16" center to center. That's off a rest with a 4x32 AO scope. If I can do that at will, I see a rat BB hunt coming. Oh, and with the TKO, it is super quiet too.
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For an adult BB shooter, based on models still in production, I'd go with a Crosman 2100. As long as you don't put more than three pumps and keep it close, it is accurate enough with BB's to enjoy plinking. Probably not safe to shoot BB's much faster anyway, they can ricochet and maintain a lot of velocity on their way back at you. It has a spring follower in the bb magazine so you dont have to hold it at a special angle to load a bb into the breech when you cock it, and the reservoir holds a lot of shots.
At more than 5 or so pumps, BB's seem hold a pattern larger than a cylinder bore shotgun past 5 meters when shot through these rifled barrels. Use pellets for higher power shots and longer range, even the best BB gun I have shot will not hold groups at 25 yards shooting BB's. But with pellets, I can hold sub inch ten shot groups at 25 meters most of the time. In a day of intensive shooting, it does seem like I get one or two wild fliers that hit several inches from POI. That is out of 50 or more hits well inside a 1.5" bullseye on a splatterburst style target, and very possibly a result of a badly deformed pellet from the tin. I only shoot the cheapest Crosman pointed pellets out of it, less than a penny per shot, straight from the tin with no washing, lubing, sorting, or inspection.
On a lower charge, the pellet accuracy in mine is not so great. So I am zeroed with pellets at ten pumps using a cheap Simmons .22 mag scope at 25 meters. For bb's, I take off the scope and the iron sights are dialed in for them. There are marks in the paint on the rail where I attached the scope, so I can put it right back on and just finger tighten the screws consistently enough, at 25m it's still on.
There are better choices for a BB only gun, but this is my favorite.
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I'm a fan of several of the guns mentioned.....Daisy 1200 is vintage but fun and an accurate BB pistol repeater........Cr Saddle Pal is a fun repeater......Daisy 25 is pretty accurate and cheap to buy......the Daisy 73 is not that accurate but soooo much fun to plink away as fast as you can pull the trigger. My offer for a real accurate semi auto plinker is the Daisy made Winchester M14 reproduction rifle. It's a current production gun you can get for about $100. It's a Co2 shooter that has above avg. accuracy with BB's and a much better trigger than a RR or a 25. I only shoot pellets in mine but BB's are real accurate in it as well. I think you may need to buy a few guns and play. ;)
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STU!
Where you been Brother?
I, for one, have missed your insight around here.
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I'm a fan of several of the guns mentioned.....Daisy 1200 is vintage but fun and an accurate BB pistol repeater........Cr Saddle Pal is a fun repeater......Daisy 25 is pretty accurate and cheap to buy......the Daisy 73 is not that accurate but soooo much fun to plink away as fast as you can pull the trigger. My offer for a real accurate semi auto plinker is the Daisy made Winchester M14 reproduction rifle. It's a current production gun you can get for about $100. It's a Co2 shooter that has above avg. accuracy with BB's and a much better trigger than a RR or a 25. I only shoot pellets in mine but BB's are real accurate in it as well. I think you may need to buy a few guns and play. ;)
They're actually around $65.
I completely forgot about mine, it's a ton of fun but rarely shoot it as it takes two Co2 carts.
If I remember right it's decently accurate with bb's but it's been long enough that I don't remember.
It's definitely a good shooter with pellets.
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Update from original poster: First of all thanks to everyone, this is a great forum and you guys are very friendly and made me feel very welcome.
We've been shooting in my one car garage and with my RR breaking in I've been able to get groupings about the size of a quarter at the length of the garage. I can also hit those little plastic toy soldiers 8 out of ten times and the BB shots actually blow them in half, not just knock them down.
2 days ago my girlfriend had me shoot at one of those flexible earplugs and I hit it dead on and the BB was embedded in the earplug..wish I got a picture of that shot.
I am very happy with this degree of accuracy.
Also I am intrigued with the Idea of a "youth break barrel" that was mentioned. We could not do the break barrel on the Gamo's we tried at New England Airgun. Which youth break barrels should we consider? This would be for outdoors and at the range, not the garage.
If we decide to add an 880 ($35 at WM) for outdoors and the range which telescopic or non-telescopic aftermarket sight would you guys recommend that would be good quality but not overkill? If we do get an 880 we would shoot pellets only not BB's with it since it's a rifle barrel.
Thanks
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Quarter groups at 10-15 feet is pretty good for a red ryder. Nice shooting there.
I recommend a simmons 22 mag 4x32 for any pneumatic. I dont think they are springer rated. The one on my remington express breakbarrel is holding up, but i lube tuned it and i have heated and compressed a coil or two of the spring.
Inside of the garage the simmons .22 mag would not make you very happy, i think the parrallax might be fixed at 50 yards. You'd want an ao scope for that, and i believe you can get a winchester 3-9×40 with ao for about the same price as the simmons (+ or - 30 bucks). The glass is not as good but the ao feature definitely makes it worth it, and i think it will hold up good on any pumper Most any scope should, with no recoil.
None of the cheap tasco 4x15 scopes that come with pumpers are very good. The open sights should offer a considerable advantage over any if the cheap 4x15 chinese scopes, in my own experience.
Two youth breakbarrels i would recommend are the stoeger x3 and x5, in wood. They are great guns and you can't do better for $100. The x5 has adequate power for rabbit and squirrel hunting to about 20 yards. The x3 is just a plinker, and has the shortest length of pull of any rifle or carbine i have ever used. In fact it was kind of difficult for me to use at first. I think it is about the best youth gun on the market, at least the best wooden sporter and the only one i would recommend for kids under age 10 because the stock fits them better.
The x5 is better for ladies and teenagers, and the lop is adequate even for me to shoot comfortably. I am about 6'1" with long arms. But i think it is no longer imported to the U.S. If you can find one, i give it my top recommendation.
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On an 880 I like a 4x32 scope with an adjustable objective. Most 880 owners will say their gun will reach out to 20-25 yards with good accuracy. Or a 3x9 with AO. If AO isn't needed, and you want a more compact scope, the NCStar Compact is a decent little scope for not much money.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00079PG2Q/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00079PG2Q/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
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If you want to step it up a few notches and stay away from pellets.... you did say military sharp shooter. Take a look at this Avanti.
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/daisy-match-grade-avanti-champion-499?m=617 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/daisy-match-grade-avanti-champion-499?m=617)
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On an 880 I like a 4x32 scope with an adjustable objective. Most 880 owners will say their gun will reach out to 20-25 yards with good accuracy. Or a 3x9 with AO. If AO isn't needed, and you want a more compact scope, the NCStar Compact is a decent little scope for not much money.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00079PG2Q/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00079PG2Q/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
That is an interesting little scope, especially for just 15 dollars. Has the 1/4 front locking ring, i am sure it would be easy to change the fixed ao setting to whatever you want. Might be the perfect scope for a cheap pumper in a backyard or garage setting.
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I want to get one of these when I grow up ;D
https://www.crosman.com/airguns/air-rifles/dpms-sbr-full-auto-black (https://www.crosman.com/airguns/air-rifles/dpms-sbr-full-auto-black)
I'm with you there! In fact, I think these kinds of guns are the essence of the fun we had as kids. If I had a penny for every BB I shot as a kid, I'd have more than enough to buy a bunch of uber expensive snob guns, like FX or Daystate. :P Pellets? What on earth were those for? ???
I had one of those burst fire BB guns a few years ago. This one in fact. https://www.pyramydair.com/product/umarex-steel-storm-co2-gun?m=2043 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/umarex-steel-storm-co2-gun?m=2043)
Wicked fun!
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/umarex-steel-strike-co2-air-rifle?m=4567 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/umarex-steel-strike-co2-air-rifle?m=4567) Same gun repackaged.
These are great fun to go commando with in the backyard. Add lasers, cheap dot scopes and grips, and you have the makings of Rambo takes on S.C.A.M. (Soda Can Army Men) ;D
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On an 880 I like a 4x32 scope with an adjustable objective. Most 880 owners will say their gun will reach out to 20-25 yards with good accuracy. Or a 3x9 with AO. If AO isn't needed, and you want a more compact scope, the NCStar Compact is a decent little scope for not much money.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00079PG2Q/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00079PG2Q/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
That is an interesting little scope, especially for just 15 dollars. Has the 1/4 front locking ring, i am sure it would be easy to change the fixed ao setting to whatever you want. Might be the perfect scope for a cheap pumper in a backyard or garage setting.
The front lens is easily adjusted. This scope is so much better than the crappy little 4x15.
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There are lots of fun Co2 guns out there, but in my opinion they make a bb gun not so dirt cheap to shoot anymore.
The Daisy model 25 is definitely pretty accurate for what it is and would be a good choice.
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There are lots of fun Co2 guns out there, but in my opinion they make a bb gun not so dirt cheap to shoot anymore.
The Daisy model 25 is definitely pretty accurate for what it is and would be a good choice.
When u guys told me to drill out the peep, is when mine became a shooter..matter fact started my love affair with peeps....good luck to the OP...
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There are lots of fun Co2 guns out there, but in my opinion they make a bb gun not so dirt cheap to shoot anymore.
The Daisy model 25 is definitely pretty accurate for what it is and would be a good choice.
When u guys told me to drill out the peep, is when mine became a shooter..matter fact started my love affair with peeps....good luck to the OP...
Definitely, the hole is tiny.
I onyl drilled ours to 1-2 drill bit sizes bigger and that made a world of difference.
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STU!
Where you been Brother?
I, for one, have missed your insight around here.
Well........I'm an Earth Science teacher in NY and the end of the school year gets crazy with the Regents exam and all the grading. I didn't get back to you till now cuz Karen and I went camping for a few days and then to my Bro's for the 4th. Fun was had. 8)
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BTW help me out here. How do I keep my reply out of the original quote???
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BTW help me out here. How do I keep my reply out of the original quote???
Just make sure it’s on the back side of the word “quote”
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It needs to come after the last [/quote]
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Yeah Stuart, it looks like that Sprite can is shot so full of holes that it's inside out! Good shooting ! It took me a while to figure out what it was.
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I know you have dismissed the 499, but I still have to advocate for it. Everyone should own one. The best winter gun I own.
It fun to stack BBs.
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A forum member recently posted a couple of really sweet vintage guns in the classifieds. A Benji MSP pistol and Benji CO2 bb repeater. I think thay BB Repeater might be right up your alley. I am fighting it pretty hard right now, myself.
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Yeah Stuart, it looks like that Sprite can is shot so full of holes that it's inside out! Good shooting ! It took me a while to figure out what it wss.
Welllll..... that was actually a rolling rock can. Same colors and there was not much left of any logo. Can't wait to check if this quoted post works out for me. Thanks for the advice guys.
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Check out the Daisy 74...co2 semi auto...LOP not to bad....can be modded and fun little shooter...good luck
What is your actual chronographed muzzle velocity of the Cabelas Daisy Model 74 on sale for $24.97?
The advertised velocity is 350 fps but that is probably a lie.
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Check out the Daisy 74...co2 semi auto...LOP not to bad....can be modded and fun little shooter...good luck
What is the muzzle velocity of the Cabelas Daisy Model 74 on sale for $24.97?
350fps, not a bad deal for a bb shooter.