GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: oldpro on May 31, 2018, 04:50:42 PM
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Kind of a strange question but I put guns in three categories low end, mid range, and High end. I also break those down into price ranges like this Low end sub $700 Mid range $700-1200 and High end $1200-up. What are your thoughts or how do you see it? Now im not saying you cant get a high end gun for less than $1200 or a mid range for less than $700 Im talking in general.
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My spring guns fall into the mid range according to your post. Most higher end spring guns fall in the $700 - $1200. It is when you go to PCP guns that pushes over the $1200 mark.
I have a low end PCP (the Gauntlet) and a quite high end PCP (Daystate Wolverine "R"). The Gauntlet took a lot of doing (mods) and I ain't done yet, but now the Gauntlet approaches the Wolverine in accuracy. They have been known to be quite accurate overall. The Woverine was very accurate right out of the box. That should be expected from an expensive quality gun, but even the Wolverine needed a little trigger work to meet my standards. The Gauntlet needed a lot.
My LGU easily keeps up with the TX200 and the HW97. It is the least priced of the spring guns. The question is, will it last as long? Each one of these guns has their own "weak" spot, none of which can't be altered and fixed.
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In my mind it breaks down as follows:
Low end or entry level: sub $400.
Mid range: $400 -$1200.
High range: $1200+.
Those seem to be the dividing lines between quality of materials/added features, and sometimes performance (although well all understand that overall “performance” can transcend boundaries).
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^ I agree with bullfrog. that's about where I fall on the price point division on average.
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In my mind it breaks down as follows:
Low end or entry level: sub $400.
Mid range: $400 -$1200.
High range: $1200+.
Those seem to be the dividing lines between quality of materials/added features, and sometimes performance (although well all understand that overall “performance” can transcend boundaries).
Completely agree with this. Especially the transcending boundries of some guns.
My .22 QB/pcp is my "go to" gun for squirrel and rabbits at 80-100(+) yards.
My M11 does 70FPE with heavy eunjin's, and almost 60FPE with 23-24 gr Bullets with amazing long range accuracy.
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I see
Low end/entry level at $400 and under
Mid level $400-$900
Sub High End $900-$1300
High End $ 1300 and up
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I agree with Bullfrog too. I would like to add Super High End at $1700 to $3000 or more. :)
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I agree with bullfrog also.
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The Gauntlet took a lot of doing (mods) and I ain't done yet, but now the Gauntlet approaches the Wolverine in accuracy. They have been known to be quite accurate overall. The Woverine was very accurate right out of the box. That should be expected from an expensive quality gun, but even the Wolverine needed a little trigger work to meet my standards. The Gauntlet needed a lot
Could you list the needed gauntlet mods please? Mine should be arriving today.
Thanks
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so if one buys the lowly 25 Mrod for $400.00 and buys a JSAR lightweight air tube a high power valve(hill,JSAR,war)adds an SSG or TSS and a huma regulator and tuned by a so called pro is it still the lowly Mrod he started out with?or have bought an 22 Mrod ads all the above plus a MM hammer forged barrel making it very accurate,is it still a lowly 22 Mrod?
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Mark,
I have done just that, and I now have a very expensive highly modified lowly .22 Marauder. ;)
That Marauder is now a very good gun, but it still does not equal the capabilities of my .22 Daystate Air Ranger (purchased used, thus close in final price to the Marauder with all the mods over the years). Of course, with the JSAR lightweight tube, it is now much lighter than the Air Ranger, so it does have that going for it.
Having both as a comparison, even with the M-Rod sitting in an aftermarket stock, I would not put the Marauder in the "high end" category.
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So, what value would you put on the "tinker factor"?
Take a low end Mrod, add the cost of the upgrades and place a value on the satisfaction of fine tuning it to reach the quality levels of the so called "mid range" guns. I suppose one could be satisfied with dropping $1200 to open a box and shoot accurately until the cows come home but where would that leave you at the end of the day? For me, I would be left wanting more.
There are those that are happy going out to eat and paying for a steak dinner... then there are those who get more from picking out the right cut of meat and preparing it to perfection at home.
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The Gauntlet took a lot of doing (mods) and I ain't done yet, but now the Gauntlet approaches the Wolverine in accuracy. They have been known to be quite accurate overall. The Woverine was very accurate right out of the box. That should be expected from an expensive quality gun, but even the Wolverine needed a little trigger work to meet my standards. The Gauntlet needed a lot
Could you list the needed gauntlet mods please? Mine should be arriving today.
Thanks
The first thing you should know is Umarex frowns on any user diving into the guns and it could effect any warranty. That being said, you should just make adjustments to the trigger and shoot it for a tin of pellets or two. See if it holds air also and that there is no factory defects.
Then if you choose to do any mods, start with the trigger. It is easy to work on. You can buy a two stage kit or make one on your own. You have to polish all the internals including the sear contact point. Polish, not remove massive amounts of metal. Then maybe change the trigger pull adjustment spring. It is very stiff and disallows a considerably lighter adjustment. It is very important to be sure the gun is safe. You have to point it in a safe direction and give it a few sharp raps at various points. If the trigger fires, start all over and adjust until it is safe. That is of primary importance. I can't give specifics here, experiment is in order.
I added another spring in series with the existing one at the end of the barrel to tighten the lock of the barrel to the shroud. This prevented the known POI shift the gun has with a slight bump of the barrel. You can also try a barrel band from the air tank to the barrel. Keep in mind the air tank moves around a bit too.
You may want to polish the cocking mechanism and its related parts to smooth that area out. There are a lot of complaints about difficult and rough cocking.
I used JB Bore Paste in the barrel to smooth out any machined rough spots.
The air stripper at the end of the barrel has been known to crack. Hajimoto makes a better version of this item.
Experiment with different pellets. Mine likes JSB Diablos.
Search this site for anything related to the Gauntlet. It has a number of fine suggestions.
It is amazing how this relatively low priced gun can shoot if given a bit of TLC.
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Before I got sick I spent a bunch of money on my Daystates. I was planning on the Regal XL but SWMBO said okay on .177 MK4 & .22 Air Wolf. Yes I spent too much money on them, but the satisfaction I've gotten from them was worth the money. Those are 2 guns that will be passed down to my kids if possible.
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I see
Low end/entry level at $400 and under
Mid level $400-$900
Sub High End $900-$1300
High End $ 1300 and up
Pretty much my thoughts.
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First I got the S510 used for a good deal, but drove 10 hrs to get it. Then I put good glass on it. Then I regulated it. Then I tinkered with it...a lot. Recently got a walnut stock for it. Cost wise that puts this in your high end range and that's my lowest end gun.
Then I got a Streamline and good glass and a bunch of mags. That alone was quite a bit more than your high end gun. This thing is fantastic, but I still like the S510.
Then I got my dream gun, the Impact .30
It's all I shoot. The other ones go with me to the range, but they rarely leave the bag. I actually de-tuned the S510 so I could use it at FT events. Went to one, did OK, but it was the last time they were holding it in my area :(
So back to the Impact .30, it's such an awesome gun I can't even put it in words. Total tack driver out to 100 yds. Did the AGD golf ball challenge out at 175yds. It's my go to gun.
Recently I bought a Helos scope for it because I just had to have a Winchester .45 and it got the Athlon. Had to have the sideshot mags. And a bipod. And soon a fancy LDC. So now, the Impact is in the range of 3x your high end.
Crazy huh?
I'd say that in PCP, unless you are finding a good deal on a used gun you aren't getting much in the low end category, really, by the time you put good glass on it, 'entry' level is where you have high end.
Forgetting good glass is like putting cheap tires on a racecar. The performance isn't there.
Let's not forget support gear. Assume you aren't going to get a filling station and will use a SCUBA shop or Paintball. Add $100-$150 for the fill apparatus and another $100 (minimum) for a SCUBA tank. The Great White is $700 (I have this on my 'list'.)
I have a buddy going thru this process now and it's like: If you like quality stuff (and he does) and aren't ready to spend $2k as a low end starting point, don't get into PCP.
Yea, there's snowpeak, kral and a few others making guns that are very economical, but once you have lived with an AirArms, Daystate, FX, Edgun, etc for a while, the others just aren't on the same platform. The two snowpeak pistols I have are 'take them apart and fix them before you shoot them'. Both of mine were literally leaking and had loose parts right out of the box. Then work on them some more. THEN put glass on them. Stupid little things are $6-700 before they work right - and you still have a $200 gun.
IMHO you ought to think long and hard before jumping into PCP. For one, it's expensive. For two, it's addictive. I've been in it for 18 months and don't really want to add up what I've spent in dollars and time and diesel fuel going places. Have a look at my signature, I've got a lot invested and that's not all the other 'stuff' that I've bought to go with it.
Powder guns are a lot less expensive.
Entry level would be something like the puncher breaker and even though it's a very economical and good gun, you are still looking at $1k, just in gun/glass. Add support gear. You are well over your high end.
Mid Range would be something like the Streamline w/ some nice glass. Add mags and support gear and you are over $2k.
High end is something like an Impact or Crown or RAW, or Edgun, or... Very nice weapons. At least $3k for a startup, probably more.
Very high end and super high end can cost $4-5k for just the gun. Those peeps are spending $1k+ on glass. $1k on support gear like the Great White. Bum bags, fancy jackets, harnesses. It all adds up.
Bottom line, if you aren't really ready to take on an expensive hobby, don't get started. You'll just get frustrated with hack products that don't perform and will end up thinking PCP is junk. It's not, it's just very expensive.
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hum, maybe we should be categorizing AG owners instead? Start with users and plinkers and end with AG snobs?
Sorry, just had to say that.......
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There is a glut of guns (lots of bullpups) in the $1200. - $1500. range. I think of them as mid-range.
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I see
Low end/entry level at $400 and under
Mid level $400-$900
Sub High End $900-$1300
High End $ 1300 and up
This is about where im at.
Low end under 500
Mid is 500 to 800
And anything over 800 better be exceptional.
Up to this point, ive never done over 800. I dont think i could bring myself to do 900+. In my opinion 10 years ago it seemed like the high end use to be 600 to 700.
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There is a glut of guns (lots of bullpups) in the $1200. - $1500. range. I think of them as mid-range.
+1
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There is a glut of guns (lots of bullpups) in the $1200. - $1500. range. I think of them as mid-range.
+1
If that's the case I'll be a low -life- end user forever.
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There is a glut of guns (lots of bullpups) in the $1200. - $1500. range. I think of them as mid-range.
+1
If that's the case I'll be a low -life- end user forever.
yep me too low end user and happy about it....i know my 25 Sumatra carbine costs more than the lowly Mrod but my Mrod will out shoot it even before the expensive mods.the carbine has more power but what good is power when your shot placement is not where you want it and the pellet goes whizzing by its intended target?
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I guess I fall into the air gun equivalent of trailer trash, I haven't spent over $300 (initial purchase price) on any of my air guns, making them all low end! Good thing I have the bar set pretty low because I could really fall into a deep depression after reading this post! LOL! :o
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Holy Smokes Paul... you spent $300 on one? Man you are living high on the hog.. I have yet to break the $250 mark before upgrades.
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There is a glut of guns (lots of bullpups) in the $1200. - $1500. range. I think of them as mid-range.
+1
If that's the case I'll be a low -life- end user forever.
yep me too low end user and happy about it....i know my 25 Sumatra carbine costs more than the lowly Mrod but my Mrod will out shoot it even before the expensive mods.the carbine has more power but what good is power when your shot placement is not where you want it and the pellet goes whizzing by its intended target?
I'd love to have a Sumatra... something about that lever action repeater that knocks my socks down. I would be very tempted to give up my .22 SynRod with the TSS, MDS and JSAR light weight tube upgrades for one..... ;)
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Holy Smokes Paul... you spent $300 on one? Man you are living high on the hog.. I have yet to break the $250 mark before upgrades.
I haven't spent $300 yet, but just under. The .25 Mrod was $280! I do have my limits!
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So, what value would you put on the "tinker factor"?
Take a low end Mrod, add the cost of the upgrades and place a value on the satisfaction of fine tuning it to reach the quality levels of the so called "mid range" guns. I suppose one could be satisfied with dropping $1200 to open a box and shoot accurately until the cows come home but where would that leave you at the end of the day? For me, I would be left wanting more.
There are those that are happy going out to eat and paying for a steak dinner... then there are those who get more from picking out the right cut of meat and preparing it to perfection at home.
Bill,
You hit on something that is very important to the hobby. There are people that want to buy the gun they want without customizing and tinkering. There's nothing wrong with that.
There are others that like to customize and tinker. If you're one of those people that is a big part of the hobby. This group knows they will never get that money out of the rifle when they sell it. But it was never about resale. It was about the fun and experience. That is the value. You also need to factor your time if you're going to compare value to price. People pay to go enjoy a movie. Tinkering is the same. You do it because you enjoy it.
One other thing that needs to be mentioned is that in the ready to shoot gun, you know what to expect. Your customized gun may or may not out shoot the ready to shoot gun.
Price wise I think the customized gun and the ready to shoot gun end up around the same price. On resale, you're going to take a hit on both types. You may bump up the base price on the customized gun with your effective customizations.
I think pcp's will need their own price range as has been mentioned earlier. The spring guns should have different price scaling.
Thanks,
Taso
EDIT: I forgot to add, I love to tinker. But anyone who's seen my posts can figure that out lol. ;D
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Taso... I learned back in the days of the "lego" guns that you'll never get out what you put into them. Then again... the knowledge gained was, and is, priceless.
I am currently in the process of "tinkering" a prewar Crosman 101 back into shape on another thread. I paid $40 to my door for the gun. Another $20 at the local hardware store and a day in the shop. I dare you to try to pry this gun out of my hands.... lol
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I see
Low end/entry level at $400 and under
Mid level $400-$900
Sub High End $900-$1300
High End $ 1300 and up
I would agree with this. I think the entry level PCPs coming out now have created another class, in my mind I can't put a Gauntlet in the same class as a Marauder.
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So if you talk about putting good glass on the gun, how would that glass price versus quality be categorized as appropriate for the gun? Obviously you wouldn't want to put a great gun to waste by putting cheap glass on it; but OTOH, going up the range of scopes, there will be a point where going any further is pointless if the gun is not up to it. How does that work out? I have watched the Cyclopse's videos on scopes, including (but not limited to) his list of the 8 best $100 scopes, his list of 10 best $200 scopes, and I think he has also his picks for the best at $300. (I know you can spend $3K on a scope, but I won't be doing that.)
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;D ;D ;D
-/+ 100 Bucks is all I pay and will pay for scopes ;)
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I'm at $80 tops on scopes. Most are $50 and less.
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I like to stay below the $200 range in scopes. I've bought 2 Athlon's, a Nikon EFR and a couple of the BSA 6-24x side focus scopes when they went on sale. All were under $200.
One day I'd like to get a Super Sniper, just to see what they're all about.
Most of my scopes are under $100. I don't see the return on investment of a $1000 scope on an air rifle. I could see if you were competing at 1000 yards with a powder burner and making money doing so. Ok. 99% of my shooting is under 20 yards so I don't see the benefit, for me personally.
I don't think the cost of scope should figure into the rifle category. Everyone has a different use or purpose for the rifles they buy. One could get the job done with a $60 scope while another wants or needs a $1000 scope.
Taso
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The only guns that get expensive scopes are those powerburners I buck hunt with. I can see a difference in light transmission at twilight between some expensive scopes and some cheap scopes. 100% of all mature whitetail buck activity and shots at mature bucks I've ever observed or had in legal shooting hours, not counting when one is chasing a doe, has occurred within the twilight minutes of morning and evening. I have some high dollar Leupold scopes that can transmit light well past light levels where I can see with the naked eye. I do have one such Leopuld set aside for a .30 Flex slug shooter I plan on ordering soon to be a 100 yard deer gun.
As far as holding a zero, I have yet to find many cheap scopes that do it any different than a high dollar scope. I did recently try one of those $30 50mm Chinese scopes and the jury is still out on it. Seems like name brand $80-$250 scopes do me just fine.
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I also have three categories...
Cheap
Cheaper
Cheapest
My last Disco was a refurb $150 to my door and then I splurged on the finest $15 dollar scope money can buy!!!
Steve
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So, what value would you put on the "tinker factor"?
Take a low end Mrod, add the cost of the upgrades and place a value on the satisfaction of fine tuning it to reach the quality levels of the so called "mid range" guns. I suppose one could be satisfied with dropping $1200 to open a box and shoot accurately until the cows come home but where would that leave you at the end of the day? For me, I would be left wanting more.
There are those that are happy going out to eat and paying for a steak dinner... then there are those who get more from picking out the right cut of meat and preparing it to perfection at home.
Pretty much nailed it for me. I'll pickup a heirloom eventually. I have a liking for the Crown .30 for the moment. Let's see what JSAR comes up with first.
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Seriously doubt that past a certain point, $ spent does not equal a proportional increase in performance.
Does normally equal to a nicer made PCP, better blue/nicer fit/ over all "rightness" of the rifle.
Which is something an owner might take some pride it....but it's kind of like worrying out the fit-finish of a hammer vs. he ability of the carpenter.
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Entry/Beginner level sub $400
Mildly Addicted level $400 - $1000
Full blown addict $1000- $2000
In need of psychiatric care at $2000 and beyond. I'm there to the 2nd power ;-)
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I do like shooting at a range and making little groups with a "POS" cheapie aiurgun. Been worked over, but leaving little or no external evidence of the work-over.
I'll even pour some good pellets (like JSB's) into old/empty Daisy or Gamo tins to add to the confusion.
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I've found that my Daystates, Pro Sport, & Mauser K98 have helped me mentally more than anyone can imagine. Yes high end guns are nice, but when the K98 is de-tuned she too will be a pleasure to shoot.
Not all guns have to be top end, but after you put the $$ or time in, you can have a really nice gun.
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Entry/Beginner level sub $400
Mildly Addicted level $400 - $1000
Full blown addict $1000- $2000
In need of psychiatric care at $2000 and beyond. I'm there to the 2nd power ;-)
I went from entry/beginner level to in need of psychiatric care in about 4 years :(
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Entry/Beginner level sub $400
Mildly Addicted level $400 - $1000
Full blown addict $1000- $2000
In need of psychiatric care at $2000 and beyond. I'm there to the 2nd power ;-)
I went from entry/beginner level to in need of psychiatric care in about 4 years :(
I hear ya Joe. Took me a little over 2 years. Now I'll pay more for a scope than I used to would pay for an airgun?
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Entry/Beginner level sub $400
Mildly Addicted level $400 - $1000
Full blown addict $1000- $2000
In need of psychiatric care at $2000 and beyond. I'm there to the 2nd power ;-)
Love it!
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I like to stay below the $200 range in scopes. I've bought 2 Athlon's, a Nikon EFR and a couple of the BSA 6-24x side focus scopes when they went on sale. All were under $200.
One day I'd like to get a Super Sniper, just to see what they're all about.
Most of my scopes are under $100. I don't see the return on investment of a $1000 scope on an air rifle. I could see if you were competing at 1000 yards with a powder burner and making money doing so. Ok. 99% of my shooting is under 20 yards so I don't see the benefit, for me personally.
I don't think the cost of scope should figure into the rifle category. Everyone has a different use or purpose for the rifles they buy. One could get the job done with a $60 scope while another wants or needs a $1000 scope.
Taso
I am in this camp. Just can't see what I am getting extra in an expensive scope. Every time I have asked the question "what is this expensive scope going to do for me that a cheap one won't"? I haven't gotten an acceptable answer for that to me, that would justify in my mind spending the extra coin.
Cheap scopes zero and hold zero, that is all that is required. These are airguns and unless you are match shooting where every your trying to squeeze every bit of accuracy out of your rifle, I think it's just wasted money to have that expensive scope sitting on an airgun shooting at paper, hunting or pesting. I would rather take my savings and buy more airguns.
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I like to stay below the $200 range in scopes. I've bought 2 Athlon's, a Nikon EFR and a couple of the BSA 6-24x side focus scopes when they went on sale. All were under $200.
One day I'd like to get a Super Sniper, just to see what they're all about.
Most of my scopes are under $100. I don't see the return on investment of a $1000 scope on an air rifle. I could see if you were competing at 1000 yards with a powder burner and making money doing so. Ok. 99% of my shooting is under 20 yards so I don't see the benefit, for me personally.
I don't think the cost of scope should figure into the rifle category. Everyone has a different use or purpose for the rifles they buy. One could get the job done with a $60 scope while another wants or needs a $1000 scope.
Taso
I am in this camp. Just can't see what I am getting extra in an expensive scope. Every time I have asked the question "what is this expensive scope going to do for me that a cheap one won't"? I haven't gotten an acceptable answer for that to me, that would justify in my mind spending the extra coin.
Cheap scopes zero and hold zero, that is all that is required. These are airguns and unless you are match shooting where every your trying to squeeze every bit of accuracy out of your rifle, I think it's just wasted money to have that expensive scope sitting on an airgun shooting at paper, hunting or pesting. I would rather take my savings and buy more airguns.
I completely agree with you on one point "I would rather take my saving and buy more airguns." :) :)
But I gotta tell you if you want to shoot long distance you need a good scope, I did try shoot 100 yards with my scopes and the reticle would just make it impossible to even see the bullseye :) :) even if my gun could shoot 1" at 100 yards I would never be able to do it because I can't actually see where I'm supposed to shoot :) :)
But since I don't care much for long distance shooting and my hunting is at a 30 yards average I'm perfectly happy with my 100 bucks UTGs :) :)
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I like to stay below the $200 range in scopes. I've bought 2 Athlon's, a Nikon EFR and a couple of the BSA 6-24x side focus scopes when they went on sale. All were under $200.
One day I'd like to get a Super Sniper, just to see what they're all about.
...[Quote Shortened]...
Taso
Hi Taso,
I very selective on optics (eye glasses, Scopes, etc) as I'm very sensitive due to my slight astigmatism combined with old and tired eyes.
I very pleased with my "SWFA SS 10x42M" scope. I am impressed with the clarity of the image and the sharpness of the fine details of the reticle on that scope as compared to low end scopes I have purchased.
https://swfa.com/swfa-ss-10x42-tactical-30mm-riflescope-6.html (https://swfa.com/swfa-ss-10x42-tactical-30mm-riflescope-6.html)
The model with Rear Parallax Adjustment (down to 10 yards) often goes on sale for $230 to $250.
I will say that I am also very impressed with the clarity of the Nikon PROSTAFF® Target EFR Riflescope. https://www.cabelas.com/product/Nikon-PROSTAFF-Target-EFR-Riflescope/1344779.uts?slotId=0 (https://www.cabelas.com/product/Nikon-PROSTAFF-Target-EFR-Riflescope/1344779.uts?slotId=0)
I think it is worth the regular price (even better at the $149 sale price back in March)
My requirements are based on my joy of paper punching and interest in HFT and Silhouette.
70% here -> Entry/Beginner level sub $400
30% here -> Mildly Addicted level $400 - $1000
Could happen -> Full blown addict $1000- $2000
Only if I become a much better shot ->In need of psychiatric care at $2000 and beyond.
Oh !@#$* very likely -> Building my own AG, spending so many hours on that addiction as to make buying a Thomas FT with a high end scope seem like the sane thing to do.
-Cindi
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from joe- I went from entry/beginner level to in need of psychiatric care in about 4 years :(
Hilarious! When my son was younger we used to shoot the 2 Beeman's I have topped with Nikon's PROSTAFF 3-9 Target EFR's. Love the scopes and the accuracy of these .17's. My son and I have put 1000's of pellets through these air rifles. I have even loaned them to a few friends who wanted to get their kids into shooting the right way. Come to think of it, I am not sure they were ever returned......
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Entry/Beginner level sub $400
Mildly Addicted level $400 - $1000
Full blown addict $1000- $2000
In need of psychiatric care at $2000 and beyond. I'm there to the 2nd power ;-)
I went from entry/beginner level to in need of psychiatric care in about 4 years :(
I hear ya Joe. Took me a little over 2 years. Now I'll pay more for a scope than I used to would pay for an airgun?
Amazing how it progresses isn’t it?
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I come from a slightly different angle than the tinkerers. I'm happy to find 0-2 hours a week to get on an airgun trigger, so I really don't want to spend time always working on one. I want to shoot! So I really look for a gun that I can take out of the box and get good performance without needing to do any more than clean the barrel. That's not to say that a tinkerer wouldn't want to look for things to change, but it isn't required.
For example: my .177 Mrod needed a lighter hammer and considerable tuning work to get efficiency out of it and set the shot string and power where I wanted. My .177 Scorpion SE just came out of the box and did its job. Absolutely worth the difference in price!
Another thing to consider in this conversation is older guns. My Daystate Harrier SE is from the 90s and is a tremendous shooter (except when gunning for paintballs at the GTA fun shoot....but I digress). Did it decrease from a "mid level" or "high end" gun just because of its current market value? Or is value determined by original price? And is using the price point from 15 years ago really fair? Obviously, this is a somewhat complex discussion.
And finally, the economics. For a while I was oggling some of the nicer $1200-1500 guns until reality set in. That's a darn bunch of cash! I have nothing against folks spending it, but I just can't justify diverting that amount of my income toward a gun. (Now if I can figure out how to get it with hotel points...different story!!) It seems the airgun market is in a race to the bottom with all the guns at the sub-300 price point. But where are the nice guns in the 500-1000 price point? Something that shoots like a Air Arms or Daystate but with a beech stock and maybe not quite as pristine a finish? These guns would give higher margins than the cheapies for the companies and good options for the shooters. (And throw in some left-handers there, willya??)
Anyway, these are my worthless opinions. Next! :D
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Eventually I will get a Huntsman, because I slobber every time I see one. So far I don’t think I have paid over $325 for any of my Mrods. I have been putting Mueller APT scopes on the Mrods and love them. They are under $180. I may put a Cabelas Covenant 6x24 ffp on my most accurate gun because I really like the ffp moa reticule, and I get them for $250 on sale. I have a really hard time spending Sako $$ on an airgun. I picked up a very lightly used L461 varmint with a Leupold vxII for less than the Huntsman I want.
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I come from a slightly different angle than the tinkerers. I'm happy to find 0-2 hours a week to get on an airgun trigger, so I really don't want to spend time always working on one. I want to shoot! So I really look for a gun that I can take out of the box and get good performance without needing to do any more than clean the barrel. That's not to say that a tinkerer wouldn't want to look for things to change, but it isn't required.
For example: my .177 Mrod needed a lighter hammer and considerable tuning work to get efficiency out of it and set the shot string and power where I wanted. My .177 Scorpion SE just came out of the box and did its job. Absolutely worth the difference in price!
Another thing to consider in this conversation is older guns. My Daystate Harrier SE is from the 90s and is a tremendous shooter (except when gunning for paintballs at the GTA fun shoot....but I digress). Did it decrease from a "mid level" or "high end" gun just because of its current market value? Or is value determined by original price? And is using the price point from 15 years ago really fair? Obviously, this is a somewhat complex discussion.
And finally, the economics. For a while I was oggling some of the nicer $1200-1500 guns until reality set in. That's a darn bunch of cash! I have nothing against folks spending it, but I just can't justify diverting that amount of my income toward a gun. (Now if I can figure out how to get it with hotel points...different story!!) It seems the airgun market is in a race to the bottom with all the guns at the sub-300 price point. But where are the nice guns in the 500-1000 price point? Something that shoots like a Air Arms or Daystate but with a beech stock and maybe not quite as pristine a finish? These guns would give higher margins than the cheapies for the companies and good options for the shooters. (And throw in some left-handers there, willya??)
Anyway, these are my worthless opinions. Next! :D
UH, RainStorm II---Hello! Where ya been? ::)
Knife
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Ha! Still learning. 😉
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Hard to beat that bsa sqorpion se for the price. & also the swfa 10x42 ss scope.
I have a freind who wants to jump in the rabbit hole & I cant find that bsa
sqorpion se for sale any where. :o