GTA

Airguns by Make and Model => Artemis/SPA Airguns => Topic started by: YEMX on May 13, 2018, 11:26:31 AM

Title: Artemis PP700 Tune
Post by: YEMX on May 13, 2018, 11:26:31 AM
Let me begin by saying:  There is a lot of awesome info in this thread:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=121844.msg1181811#msg1181811 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=121844.msg1181811#msg1181811)

In fact, it's where I'm getting most (if not all) of my info from.  So I mean no disrespect nor am I attempting to plagiarize (i.e. take credit) anyone's work.  That being said however, the above linked thread has gotten reeeeally long, and sometimes questions may get "lost" in the slew of posts, and to put it plain:  It's a HUGE amount of info to sort through...  All of this info will be "old news" for those of you who have had a PP700 for a while.  I am attempting to put all relevant tuning here.  Again, I am not trying to pass this off as my own... I just want to have one place with THE MOST relevant info and steps to tuning this pistol.  This post is more for me, to keep a record for future PP700 tunes (if I buy another one), but if I can help someone else in the same boat, cool beans. 

I'm attempting to keep this post strictly about tuning MY PP700 pistol.  However, all of the info will of course apply to any other kind of PP700 tune.  Just tweak it to your needs.  This will be an evolving thread, as I'm still gathering/waiting on parts to complete the tune, and I don't have too much spare time to just sit down and knock out the tune in one sitting.  I will attempt to attach good pictures of the disassembly, tune and re-assembly.   

Okay- now for the good stuff!

I am going to be building a low powered (for the States), regulated pistol.  Goal is around 10 fpe.  Nothing too fancy I'm afraid...  Here's the list of parts so far:

Gen2 PP700 pistol .22
JSA Breech
JSA LDC adapter
JSA Carbon Tensioned Barrel kit
HuMa Reg set to 105 bar

O-ring store purchase list:

1.5mm X 4mm Buna-N 70
1.5mm X 5mm Buna-N 70
1.5mm X 8mm Buna-N 70
1.5mm X 9mm Buna-N 70 (Ordered 90D) (Breech o-ring)
1.5mm X 11mm Buna-N 70
1.5mm X 12.5mm Buna-N 70
1.5mm X 13mm Buna-N 70
3mm X 21mm Buna-N 70

I hope this is the current and correct list of needed o-rings- I'm placing an order today.  That's all for now, I'll be back when my o-rings and some parts from JSA come in.

(https://i.imgur.com/KyIgdqB.jpg)
 




Title: Re: Artemis PP700 Tune
Post by: Wolverineshooter on May 13, 2018, 11:35:37 AM
Tom, that is great. I will be following it.

You can keep updating the first post so all the relevant information will be on top.

Title: Re: Artemis PP700 Tune
Post by: Wayne52 on May 13, 2018, 11:41:56 AM
I've considered many times of buying another one of these, I know I need another gun like I need a hole in the head but these pistols are just so versatile it's unreal.  I'd like to leave the one I have like it is with a better scope and I'd like to have another one that's open sights only, something I could make a nice holster for and carry on my side when I'm also carrying a rifle.  Whether or not I get another one is a different story though, I see that Mrodair raised their price back up to $219 shipped again, that's the original price that he had on them, then he had a sale until they were sold out.  He's now got them in stock again though.  I've seen where people have used glock sights on them but I prefer metal rather than polymer myself.  I'm sure that if I had another one I'd get a decent rear sight on it eventually.  I like the open sights for close up down and dirty shots.
Title: Re: Artemis PP700 Tune
Post by: YEMX on May 13, 2018, 11:58:52 AM
Quote from: Wolverineshooter on May 13, 2018, 11:35:37 AM
Tom, that is great. I will be following it.

You can keep updating the first post so all the relevant information will be on top.

Oh yeah!!  I will probably do that!  I'll just date the entries!  Thanks for the idea!



Quote from: Wayne52 on May 13, 2018, 11:41:56 AM
I've considered many times of buying another one of these...  these pistols are just so versatile...  I'd like to have another one that's open sights only...  for close up down and dirty shots.

Agreed- I'm going to wait to see how I feel about this pistol, once I'm done tuning it, to decide whether or not I want to try for another one.  I'd love to do a .20 or a .25... Or both.  Who knows?   ;D ;D
Title: Re: Artemis PP700 Tune
Post by: Wolverineshooter on May 13, 2018, 06:41:43 PM
Quote from: Wayne52 on May 13, 2018, 11:41:56 AM
I've considered many times of buying another one of these, I know I need another gun like I need a hole in the head but these pistols are just so versatile it's unreal.  I'd like to leave the one I have like it is with a better scope and I'd like to have another one that's open sights only, something I could make a nice holster for and carry on my side when I'm also carrying a rifle.  Whether or not I get another one is a different story though, I see that Mrodair raised their price back up to $219 shipped again, that's the original price that he had on them, then he had a sale until they were sold out.  He's now got them in stock again though.  I've seen where people have used glock sights on them but I prefer metal rather than polymer myself.  I'm sure that if I had another one I'd get a decent rear sight on it eventually.  I like the open sights for close up down and dirty shots.

I have the same thoughts too, but thinking of .177 instead of .22 I have now.
Title: Re: Artemis PP700 Tune
Post by: sawtoothscream on May 13, 2018, 07:09:48 PM
Just got back from shooting mine.   Awesome guns for the price.    Would like to lighten the trigger a little more or polish it at least.
Title: Re: Artemis PP700 Tune
Post by: Ribbonstone on May 13, 2018, 07:38:23 PM
Best I've done, in .22, with the stock reg (well broken in) and a MK I (the bugger-grip version) has been 47 good regulated shots at 15 foot pounds.


So will say there is 700 foot pounds avaialbile.....so if looking for 10 foot pounds, then something like 70 shots?
Title: Re: Artemis PP700 Tune
Post by: swish on May 13, 2018, 08:15:30 PM
I still don't like thinking about it but I recently sold mine to start another project. I was getting 35+ shots at around 685 fps with 14.3 crosmans. 5 shot groups at 35 yards with AA 16s. Amazingly quiet and dead in hand at the shot.
Title: Re: Artemis PP700 Tune
Post by: swish on May 13, 2018, 08:32:09 PM
Sorry those first two group pics are the same one. I did get a hand full of groups that size once I found its magic pellet.
Title: Re: Artemis PP700 Tune
Post by: sawtoothscream on May 13, 2018, 09:26:54 PM
Mine likes the 18gr exacts (like all my .22 guns).     Have no clue what it's doing, have to put it over the Chrono again.   
Title: Re: Artemis PP700 Tune
Post by: Raider03 on May 16, 2019, 05:27:37 PM
Quote from: YEMX on May 13, 2018, 11:26:31 AM
Let me begin by saying:  There is a lot of awesome info in this thread:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=121844.msg1181811#msg1181811 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=121844.msg1181811#msg1181811)

In fact, it's where I'm getting most (if not all) of my info from.  So I mean no disrespect nor am I attempting to plagiarize (i.e. take credit) anyone's work.  That being said however, the above linked thread has gotten reeeeally long, and sometimes questions may get "lost" in the slew of posts, and to put it plain:  It's a HUGE amount of info to sort through...  All of this info will be "old news" for those of you who have had a PP700 for a while.  I am attempting to put all relevant tuning here.  Again, I am not trying to pass this off as my own... I just want to have one place with THE MOST relevant info and steps to tuning this pistol.  This post is more for me, to keep a record for future PP700 tunes (if I buy another one), but if I can help someone else in the same boat, cool beans. 

I'm attempting to keep this post strictly about tuning MY PP700 pistol.  However, all of the info will of course apply to any other kind of PP700 tune.  Just tweak it to your needs.  This will be an evolving thread, as I'm still gathering/waiting on parts to complete the tune, and I don't have too much spare time to just sit down and knock out the tune in one sitting.  I will attempt to attach good pictures of the disassembly, tune and re-assembly.   

Okay- now for the good stuff!

I am going to be building a low powered (for the States), regulated pistol.  Goal is around 10 fpe.  Nothing too fancy I'm afraid...  Here's the list of parts so far:

Gen2 PP700 pistol .22
JSA Breech
JSA LDC adapter
JSA Carbon Tensioned Barrel kit
HuMa Reg set to 105 bar

O-ring store purchase list:

1.5mm X 4mm Buna-N 70
1.5mm X 5mm Buna-N 70
1.5mm X 8mm Buna-N 70
1.5mm X 9mm Buna-N 70 (Ordered 90D) (Breech o-ring)
1.5mm X 11mm Buna-N 70
1.5mm X 12.5mm Buna-N 70
1.5mm X 13mm Buna-N 70
3mm X 21mm Buna-N 70

I hope this is the current and correct list of needed o-rings- I'm placing an order today.  That's all for now, I'll be back when my o-rings and some parts from JSA come in.

(https://i.imgur.com/KyIgdqB.jpg)
 

Hi,

Did the o-rings you ordered from the O-ring store work correctly?
I found a diagram for a PP700S-A with the o-ring listed using OD and CS.
These don't match your list which is in ID and CS.

Thanks,
John
Title: Re: Artemis PP700 Tune
Post by: ray1377 on May 16, 2019, 06:15:44 PM
Quote from: Raider03 on May 16, 2019, 05:27:37 PM
Quote from: YEMX on May 13, 2018, 11:26:31 AM
Let me begin by saying:  There is a lot of awesome info in this thread:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=121844.msg1181811#msg1181811 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=121844.msg1181811#msg1181811)

In fact, it's where I'm getting most (if not all) of my info from.  So I mean no disrespect nor am I attempting to plagiarize (i.e. take credit) anyone's work.  That being said however, the above linked thread has gotten reeeeally long, and sometimes questions may get "lost" in the slew of posts, and to put it plain:  It's a HUGE amount of info to sort through...  All of this info will be "old news" for those of you who have had a PP700 for a while.  I am attempting to put all relevant tuning here.  Again, I am not trying to pass this off as my own... I just want to have one place with THE MOST relevant info and steps to tuning this pistol.  This post is more for me, to keep a record for future PP700 tunes (if I buy another one), but if I can help someone else in the same boat, cool beans. 

I'm attempting to keep this post strictly about tuning MY PP700 pistol.  However, all of the info will of course apply to any other kind of PP700 tune.  Just tweak it to your needs.  This will be an evolving thread, as I'm still gathering/waiting on parts to complete the tune, and I don't have too much spare time to just sit down and knock out the tune in one sitting.  I will attempt to attach good pictures of the disassembly, tune and re-assembly.   

Okay- now for the good stuff!

I am going to be building a low powered (for the States), regulated pistol.  Goal is around 10 fpe.  Nothing too fancy I'm afraid...  Here's the list of parts so far:

Gen2 PP700 pistol .22
JSA Breech
JSA LDC adapter
JSA Carbon Tensioned Barrel kit
HuMa Reg set to 105 bar

O-ring store purchase list:

1.5mm X 4mm Buna-N 70
1.5mm X 5mm Buna-N 70
1.5mm X 8mm Buna-N 70
1.5mm X 9mm Buna-N 70 (Ordered 90D) (Breech o-ring)
1.5mm X 11mm Buna-N 70
1.5mm X 12.5mm Buna-N 70
1.5mm X 13mm Buna-N 70
3mm X 21mm Buna-N 70

I hope this is the current and correct list of needed o-rings- I'm placing an order today.  That's all for now, I'll be back when my o-rings and some parts from JSA come in.

(https://i.imgur.com/KyIgdqB.jpg)
 

Hi,

Did the o-rings you ordered from the O-ring store work correctly?
I found a diagram for a PP700S-A with the o-ring listed using OD and CS.
These don't match your list which is in ID and CS.

Thanks,
John

I ordered mine from the o-ring store last week. They got here in like 2 days!
And they were a perfect fit. Went ahead and ordered enough to do a reseal at least 4 times over.

Ray
Title: Re: Artemis PP700 Tune
Post by: YEMX on May 16, 2019, 07:48:37 PM
they worked awesome!!  I still have a very tiny leak though- takes a few days and the reservoir is completely drained.  But I've noticed it's a common problem- getting enough torque to get that white disc to seal is a bear.  I can live with the small leak though.  It doesn't affect my shooting any. 
Title: Re: Artemis PP700 Tune
Post by: fderry on May 16, 2019, 08:22:44 PM
I also have read all 82 pages of the Artemis pp700 thread. I started reading the thread about a month ago and by the time I got to the 40th page I decided I couldn’t live without one in .22.  I also decided to not max it out but am going to set it up at between 620 – 650 fps.  It is between 619 – 661 fps (first 20 shots on full air charge) after about 200 rounds fired for break-in. I’m using 16gr AoA FT pellets I have had laying around for a few years.  Looks like the reg isn’t doing its job very well.  I am going the same direction you have gone as far as modifications based on information from that thread.  I have the following parts in house:

Gen2 PP700 pistol .22
JSA Breech
DonnyFL LDC adapter
DonnyFL Tanto LDC
JSA Carbon Tensioned Barrel kit
HuMa Reg
O-rings you have listed

I have installed the barrel kit and the breach.  When I took the pistol apart to install the new breach I noticed the hammer spring nut had locking compound on it and it was set up with high tension (hammer spring post sticking out of the bottom of the nut).  Also noticed the grub screw at the top of the stock breach was installed with locking compound.  Not sure how to adjust this grub screw on new breach or if I need to use locking compound for it.  Looks like it sets the volume of air to be released behind the pellet when fired.  I just set it slightly below the top of the breach and will play with it in the future to see what its effects are.  When I reinstalled the hammer I put the hammer spring post slightly recessed in the nut.  I also turned the reg screw ¼ turn ccw (lowering the reg pressure I hope).  Repressured the pistol and shot a 5 shot string to verify I didn’t screw up.  The 5 shot string follows:

613, 617, 617, 615, 616

Now that I have verified I put it together correctly I’m going to adjust and test with a chrony.  Once I get a baseline setup with the stock reg I will think about installing the Huma reg.  I’ll be interested in your installation of your Huma reg.
Title: Re: Artemis PP700 Tune
Post by: Pelletjunkie on May 17, 2019, 12:02:53 AM
I agree. It would be nice to have a thread that isn’t so loaded with chitchat and was a strictly info thread. I read and printed the 80+ page monster thread. Then I highlighted the important pages and tossed the rest. It became my 20 page manual. Here is where I am with my PP700.
Huma set at 130b. Hammer set at -3/4 turn from max. I consider max when you can’t turn it up anymore with a flat blade screwdriver. I set my valve return spring by measuring its depth. From the factory it was set 4.45mm deep. I backed the screw out to 3mm deep then went back in to 4mm deep. It’s where the gun produced the tightest ES. 1mm in depth change is worth 20fps but you can get that back with a 1/4 turn on your hammer spring and keep a tighter ES. I am using a 2” shorter barrel than stock so you can add some speed to what my gun does with this tune. I get 32 shots. 757fps with 7.25gr pellets. 644fps with 10.5gr pellets.
Title: Re: Artemis PP700 Tune
Post by: nervoustrigger on May 17, 2019, 07:07:19 AM
That's interesting about adjusting the valve spring tension.  Generally speaking, more tension is preferable.  In an ideal world where the regulator always produces precisely the same output, it wouldn't matter.  In fact, the valve spring wouldn't be needed at all.  But just as the it plays a vital role in the valve's self-regulating behavior in an unregulated PCP (achieving a long, useful bell curve over a wide pressure range), so does it aid a regulated PCP where the regulator isn't perfect.
Title: Re: Artemis PP700 Tune
Post by: YEMX on May 17, 2019, 11:35:07 AM
I'll run the numbers again, as I only did cursory testing- but the 105 bar reg setting (I'm trusting HuMa to have set the reg to 105 bar) did not get me a "low powered" pistol- I'm sitting around 15-16 fpe!  I haven't touched any other settings, nor have I done a full shot count.  I'll probably get to that today.  I think my initial goal was for a 10 fpe or less tune. Anyhoo, I'll keep y'all posted!

Quote from: Pelletjunkie on May 17, 2019, 12:02:53 AM
It would be nice to have a thread that isn’t so loaded with chitchat and was a strictly info thread.

That's the goal of this thread  ;D
Title: Re: Artemis PP700 Tune
Post by: nervoustrigger on May 17, 2019, 12:30:26 PM
Run it over the chronograph until the velocity changes and that will give an idea where the regulator is actually set.  My suggestion is to deliberately dial in excess hammer spring tension, and then when you see the velocity begin to fall, the reservoir pressure is very close to the setpoint. 

Otherwise if you want a quick way to reduce the power, just drive down the restrictor screw in the top of the rotating block.  It won’t give the absolute highest shot count but it may be useful to start there and see how it goes so you’ll have a frame of reference before going back into the tube to reduce the setpoint. 
Title: Re: Artemis PP700 Tune
Post by: YEMX on May 17, 2019, 01:00:05 PM
One question I have- I noticed on the main Artemis thread, with regard to installing the reg:  Are we notching the threads, or are we notching the tube?  I saw the picture of the tube being notched, but I've also seen the threads being notched.  Is it bad if both were to be notched? 
Title: Re: Artemis PP700 Tune
Post by: Pelletjunkie on May 17, 2019, 01:07:31 PM
You file a V groove the length of your threads on the plug. Then you notch the tube. I did neither. Don’t like notching and grooving parts that aren’t easy to get. I just backed my tube out 1/4 turn. Once air is in it, it is solid and won’t move. Guys act like we are trying to vent an air conditioner. It’s just not necessary to have a giant escape route for HPA. A piece of lint on an oring causes a good leak. Air has no problem escaping down the threads and out the tiny gap.
Title: Re: Artemis PP700 Tune
Post by: YEMX on May 17, 2019, 02:20:48 PM
Ah- I did both: Notch the threads on the plug and backed the tube off a 1/4 turn.  I'll not worry about this particular topic any longer!  ;D