GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Guns And Related Accessories Review Gates => Air Gun Review Gate => Topic started by: Relentless Holiday on April 12, 2018, 05:39:42 PM
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Christmas in March arrives. This post is coming from my cell phone so don't look for paragraphs or other such grammatical correctness. I had thought I would be posting a photograph but that will have to wait till the second Post in this thread for now I will just give a general impression on what I see and what I feel. You won't catch me doing an accuracy test until the first tin of pellets has glazed the barrel. That is just not fair.
The Gun is packaged under what seems to be a brand name of "Seneca by Air Venturi". A sticker on the box end has the ID of the Model as "Dragonfly" with Cal info. It included a single shot tray and one ten round clip. Both were metal :-) There was also a healthy supply of o-rings of various sizes included.
Nice, If I stop dictating I get a return bar for paragraphs on the tiny little keyboard.
Starting with the wood. Well, the forend and stock appears as in the PA photograph judging from my example. Not very well matched in color, with the Forend darker than he stock. Ewww. But I actually like the Grain on the butt of this one, it follows the lines of the gun nicely but that is always hit-or-miss. The cheek rise is on the left of the stock for right handed shooters. The checkering is as crisp as a laser should be with very little raised character as a result. It's very smooth except for the grooving which is evenly placed on both sides and it does afford a little extra grip when carrying. None of the nice little points from hand checkering work here. This gun has a nice pairing fit on the space between the pump grip and the stock which is very pleasant. I hate when that is off to the sides or closes with a protrusion on the bottom of the gun. This sits pleasantly squared up. But I do now understand the old Benji's reasoning for the enlarged forend. This could be a pincher if you were not careful.
The butt pad is softer than some of the very hard rubbers I have seen used and has some ribbing that actually settles in nice on the clothing with a little traction but easy adjustment is there with no sticky grab.. It is fitted within the norms of a gun in this price range with no horrible mismatches to the fit. Same for the trigger group with the exception that front of the trigger groups it's a little deeper than the rear. But that is not out of par or excessive. The mounting screws are holes drilled with very Square edges that I will knock down a little when I work on making the color match a little better front to back. I used to finish furniture and have also worked on guitars so I should be able to get the match a little better with some TLC.
Bluing on the metal is very acceptable with a good match on the receiver to the rest of the pump tube and Barrel. The only plastic I see on the gun is the molded front sight artificial suppressor looking thingy. But even that acts as a decent crown guard.
The very first bolt pull was tough but not binding/scratchy or sticky. There is no o-ring probe seal. It seems to be a relatively strong spring on the hammer so it will be very interesting to see what kind of power it will generate. Like is that spring needed? It was pumped three X and dry fired as of this post.
The pump stroke is pretty darn long and I imagine it will create quite a bit pressure, even at one pump, but that will be proved or not over the chroni later. Mechanics of the pump seem stocky enough and not at all sloppy. If it's kept lube I'd expect a good life from it.
The trigger is not broken in either but my first impression is pretty good. I do not know if they advertise it as a double stage trigger but the pull has a definitive stiffer change before a decent release. Due to that the release is going to be very predictable and fairly light. A guess would be in the range of 3.25 lbs. I have no pull gauge and have never used one, so I hope others will check and I can find out if I am close.
I am pretty happy with the action. The safety is a cross bar at the trigger and as of now is very safe. It's a little stiff. But at least it is not automatic. And it does appear metal. Correction the trigger guard is plastic as well as is the rear sight except for the blade and adjustment screws.
Well there is my unboxing impressions for a starting point. I'm going down to the range to put a scope on it and see what we get. I just wanted to put some of these thoughts down as I gazed upon its newness.
I'm not even going to try to edit this on my phone by 4 inch screen, I will clean it up later. Given the promise date of the 18th of this month this was a very pleasant surprise coming home from work today I cannot wait to see what the gurus around here do with this platform. It seems like a really cool starting point. More to come later
(edited for voice recognition error corrections and general readabilty)
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Congratulations... P.O.I. !
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Nice. Looking forward to more info. That muzzle piece...How is it secured to the barrel? Grub screws or possibly glue or a tight fit? Also, what's the diameter of the barrel? Looking forward to some accuracy and Chrony results.
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Congrats P.O.I. to your new addition, I hope it will give you a lot of fun shooting it.
Enjoy it. Can't wait for more reports about it from you, you did a very good job description the gun in the basics.
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Thanks Tommy and Juergen! Here is a little more....
Nice. Looking forward to more info. That muzzle piece...How is it secured to the barrel? Grub screws or possibly glue or a tight fit? Also, what's the diameter of the barrel? Looking forward to some accuracy and Chrony results.
The muzzle guard/sight seems to be glued or pressed in place and the barrel O.D. is .475 Inches
Also, I forgot to mention that the gun can be easily decocked for storage while pressurized. you do need to cock it to pump it up.
So I guess I will call this post "The Shooting Experience"
The scope I brought with me to the range was not a good fit. It is a compact "Sniper" brand 3-9x40 and has a very short range of eye relief. This gun has only about four inches of rail available with one inch being in front of the mag. I will need an alternate scope or an extension set up to run these together. I will probably look for a fixed 10 to 16 power full size glass for ten meter shooting assuming it groups, more on why below.
Today's shooting was with the stock iron sights and I have a condition of the cornea that makes it a real adventure. Waves across my eye cause some pretty psychedelic views at close objects so this is not about accuracy. But that said, I was amazed at keeping groups down to two inches. That is VERY uncommon for me with any open iron. It gave me hope for our happy future if nothing else. I did decide that to gauge accuracy on this it would be cool to mount a green laser I have on it, after a tin of break in.
As for shooting it...
For starters let me say I am not a huge guy I am of average height at around 5'8" with some extra pounds that I call leverage. Even with that this gun is a bear to pump. I have been working in a construction office for a few years but prior to that I was a tile installer. I am just trying to make the point I am not a wimp. And that pumping this is NOT child's play.
The feel of shooting the gun, for me, was actually a really nice fit for my average frame. I'd read here someone said they thought it felt like a child's gun. I half expected a 760 size gun. So I was very happily surprised and comfortable at the size and pull. I thought it was light but very nice. The center of gravity is just about 2.5" in front of the the trigger guard allowing for a stable elbow in hip free standing shot. It just sits in the center of my palm very nicely. And the Monty stock kissed my cheek just right for the irons.
As of this post I only put 35 rounds through it and the bolt lightened up a little. Happily the trigger seems just as I'd said. The predictable and light release of a decent stock sporter/plinker. The wadcutter pellets did bind a little on insertion when the gun was held horizontal. Domes were predictably smoother but still hung up a hair. I assume it is the transfer port and am concerned about deformation. I don't have a .177 rod so I cannot do a push though to see if that's the case. I plan to try a single pump shot into water to retrieve one for inspection. Till then I will try alternate gun positions. I did read something about the loading position elsewhere and need look into it.
So far so good but here lies the rub. This gun would be recommended to shooters with tastes similar to mine for one of two very different distinct uses after these few rounds.
First, assuming it will be worthy as far as accuracy, It could be a 10M gun for paper. About 1/2 of the shots I took tonight were one pump. It was an experiment to see if I could stop looking for a single stroke pneumatic for that role. I was pleasantly surprised when my hopes/prediction of that long stroke making this possible seemed to show promise. With other multi pumpers I own there is easily detectable lack of consistency unless pumped at least twice. You can hear and feel it is wrong. The Chroni will tell, but I have a feeling from the POI and sound that this could be a consistent 1 pump gun. We will see. The Chroni test is tomorrow or after the weekend.
The second use of this could be an awesome hunter in .22. Given what seems adequate power, from shooting the heavier CPDs and like weighted RWS Superdomes tonight in .177 at low pump counts, this platform could very well be an fantastic light to carry bird, squirrel and rabbit hunter. I really think this was what the gun was built to do.
What it was not made for was plinking. At lease not at power levels I like to shoot at. It would be exhausting to me and the sessions would be short. The pressure required for the 6-8th pumps (8 is recommended max.) was such that I was concerned for the barrel when I had to use it as the only place to apply pressure to pump the gun. I can see an aftermarket part for this gun that is a flat upper forend that mounts in front of the rear gun sight and transfers the pressure off the barrel to the pump housing. It was too tough to pump at high counts unless your hands are directly opposite each other. I did not like the feel of the barrel flexing during that.
As I have my hunter class filled in the cabinet, I am going to try to see what can be done about making this a target shooter for the winter months. No more shopping for a SSP for now. It's going to get that fixed power glass (after a break in period and pending the laser testing) before any commitment of the heart for now.
Next new info will be string numbers at a few pumps ranges. After more down the barrel We will put that laser on and check the Groups.
For now I am gonna get some rest for that work out.
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P.O.I. Good Write Up ! I'm staying tuned for more ! Best Wishes - Tom
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POI, congratulations on your new Dragonfly! Looking forward to more posts :)
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Good info. Keep it coming!
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I'm sure you'll have some fun with that gun, congrats on a great buy I'd say.
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I find myself drooling.
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Thanks much for the detailed write up. I was looking for hands on info on the rifle and wanted to wait to see if the rifle would make sense for me. Your description of the pumping kind of eliminates it for me? We’ll see on the Chrony numbers how much power is going in per pump. I am getting older don’t like stiff harsh pumping guns. I have some old Crosmans that are very easy up to 4 pumps got to stay with that?
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Moved to Airgun Review Gate.
Thanks for posting!!!!
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I saw an early review on this gun and that was one of the things the reviewer pointed out... how hard it was to pump.
I personally don't see it as a problem.... as with my Sheridans, I would rarely pump it past 5 pumps. I do have a concern about the pressure applied to that floating barrel during pumping and would like to see the long terms affect of that. At least with the "Dans" the barrel is soldered to the tube. Maybe an anodized spacer and additional barrel band/end cap would be a welcome mod.
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Thanks for the OD on barrel. Just looked at the schematics for the rifle. Is the barrel band that the rear site sits on, made of plastic as well? In the pic on PA looks like it could be plastic.
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Rob.... It is not plastic on my current SPA guns and as far as I know, they used the same one in the pumper.
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Thanks for the OD on barrel. Just looked at the schematics for the rifle. Is the barrel band that the rear site sits on, made of plastic as well? In the pic on PA looks like it could be plastic.
That band/riser was metal. And it looked to be dovetailed to be a 11mm rail on top. I was thinking maybe a small red dot out there would be cool on it too. I did not see a set screw for the plastic rear sight body yet but it could easily be under the sight's elevation lever arm. It is clearly dovetailed and slid on though. I will look into removing the adjustment screw to look for it and measuring the rail to be sure when I get to break it out again. almost all my weekends are committed to other things so hopefully Monday on that for ya.
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Note regarding the stock:
The cheek riser is on the left for Right handed shooting only.
Edited into original post
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If it's metal it should be a solid area for pumping, between that band and breech? Since the barrel is easily removed adding a spacer between the barrel and tube should be simple work.
Looking at the schematics the elevation screws may screw down into that barrel band. This rifle does look very easy to mod! I can see an easy mod to make pumping easier. The muzzle piece may also be a press fit with an indent on the inside of the muzzle piece. The end of the barrel looks very similar to the CP1M pistol. It will make adding a LDC a bit tricky. How's the report of the rifle, compared to a Dan?
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A lot of the parts on my CP2 are probably the same as a lot of parts on the Dragonfly.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/883/26563475837_08b828f639_h.jpg)
I've also got the CP1 and the Varmint too which will share parts as well, Avator (Bill) can give you some pointers on that.
I still haven't seen an exploded view PDF for this gun. Julie might give you one if you sent her an email ???
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The muzzles on the MRodAir versions were held on with grub screws. I understand the Diana versions added some type of adhesive that makes them a bear to remove. Air Venturi may have done the same. All mine are MRodAir guns and all can be removed by removing the grub screw.
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Chrony numbers per pump should be interesting
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Gluing the is a bad idea !!!
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Tru dat Wayne... I was confused when it was first discovered. I thought I was going mad because mine came right off. Admittedly it's a snug fit but came off non the less.
Now to explain what Wayne eluded to....
I originally ordered my Varmint in .177. I then got the Master Blaster (CP-2) in .22. I felt the Varmint would make a better gun in .22 and the Master Blaster would be a better match to shoot with the .177 Plinkster, both being C02.
I swapped the breech, barrel and pickle and I'm glad I did. It was a drop in swap and the Varmint is a silent killer in .22 with that bigger pickle. The MB (CP-2) in .177 with it's long barrel and smaller pickle is basically a Plinkster with synthetic stock. Also I added an SX-60c (FD-PCP) barrel band to my Varmint out near the fill assembly. It fits snuggly around the air tube and has 1/16" play around the barrel like the MRod. The barrel band from the CP-2 could also be used and would provide rail grooves on the bottom for a light/laser/bipod.
To go a step further... here is what I'm thinking...
The XS-60c barrel band is quite beefy and can be had from Mike Mellick ridiculously cheap. I would think it could be slotted on the bottom to let the Dragonfly linkage pass through it. It could be drilled and tapped on either side for grub screws to secure it to the air tube thus giving some support to the barrel that hanging out there in the wind. Rick at Precision Pellet sells the anodized spacer for the Crosman 140 at a good price. That could be sized to fit between the breech and barrel band.
Easy Peezy Boys and Girls. And I believe it would all look just like it grew there.
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And if that seems too much for you.... go to Lowes or Home Depot. Buy a foot of nylon air hose with the ID to fit over the barrel. Cut a hunk as long as the hand guard on a Sheridan and slide it down over the barrel to the breech.
Booya !!!
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Thanks for this writeup. I, too, have a bit of "extra leverage". I am interested in this air rifle along with the Benjamin 397/392. I hear the Benjamin's are hard pumpers also. For me, a plus with the Benjamin models is the lack of any blueing. Brass barrel, painted metal and wood means less chance of rust. Here in the Puna District of the big island of Hawaii rust is a constant problem. Due to my ancient eyesight I have to use a scope. This gun wins that subject, as the Benjamin's are more difficult to scope.
Looking forward to your accuracy results.
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Thanks for this writeup. I, too, have a bit of "extra leverage". I am interested in this air rifle along with the Benjamin 397/392. I hear the Benjamin's are hard pumpers also. For me, a plus with the Benjamin models is the lack of any blueing. Brass barrel, painted metal and wood means less chance of rust. Here in the Puna District of the big island of Hawaii rust is a constant problem. Due to my ancient eyesight I have to use a scope. This gun wins that subject, as the Benjamin's are more difficult to scope.
Looking forward to your accuracy results.
Lest not forget the multi shot mag feature. If for nothing else, it keeps one with sausage finger (such as myself) from fumbling with pellets in the field.
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This afternoon's addition is the "Tale of the Tape" :D Plus some observations. LOL I knew you guys would leave me in the dust on the other versions of this. So my posts will continue to address this new to me platform and my personal experience and testing. I really enjoy reading where this came from and where it could go, so by all means thanks! I just don't have any knowledge of what you speak..hehehe so I am not ignoring and not replying. I am quietly taking it all in. Like that COOL stock on the CP2 pic, very nice! I'll just offer what I can for you guys.
That rail below the rear sight did measure at a standard 11.3 mm. But it is NOT on plane with the receiver rails and sits noticeably higher. Spanning that to afford more rail won't happen by my hand.
First let me say I may have been a little rough on the review regarding the pumping effort. It's tougher than a newer 392 but not impossible. And as Rob said the gun can be pumped with a grip between the rear sight barrel band and receiver...but that's as delivered with no scope on it. I need glass to shoot. I may very well end up with the compact scope set farther back to leave that area accessible for just that. So it is a concern for me still.
To answer your question to me the report may be a little louder than my 392. But it's a smaller bore .177. I am not sure how that figures into your question for comparison.
So sitting at the picnic table out back I did some full strength testing over the chroni. Pumping sitting with that grip was doable.
On to the numbers:
Note: the gun sprayed my Alpha and trap every so often during this. You guys will likely tear in before shooting to clean these up. For now, I am a shooter not a moder. I am shooting out the moisture rising into the bolt area, then shooting Q-tips through the barrel. Four came out soaked and filthy with a very brown lube or tooling oil. There is more in there it's coming up and is visible in the loading port. It started coming out in bulk when I started tilting the gun to feed pellets hoping I could avoid grabbing the T-port. This much oil and how it came in spurts during the testing is in mind when I look at the spreads ect..
"...just the facts mam'..."
All in FPS
CP Domes 10.5gn ten shot string @ 8 pumps
750.1, 749.5, 749.1, 751.6, 754.3, 753.3, 751.4, 747.5, 752.1, 754.4
Avg=751.3 Extrm Spread=6.89 Std Dev.=2.23
RWS Supermag Wad Cutter (sorted at 9.2gn) ten shot string @ 2 pumps
527.3, 529.2, 531.1, 535.9, 534.4, 531.8, 532.7, 533.8, 530.1, 533.4
Avg=532.0 Extrm Spread=8.59 Std Dev.=2.23
CP Wad Cutters 7.4gn ten shot string @ 1 pump (is it SSP worthy...?)
412.6, 408.5, 412.5, 413.9, 421.0, 424.1, 413.6, 414.6, 420.5, 412.3
Avg=415.4 Extrm Spread=15.58 Std Dev.=5.0
Other Single pellet tests:
CP Dome 10.5gn @ 5 pumps = 689.7
RWS Supermag. wad Cutter 9.4 gn @ 5 pumps =723.7
Predator Polymag 8.2gn @ 5 pumps = 754.3 & @ 8 pumps 832.2 8)
Eungin Dome 16.2gn @ 8 pumps =648.0
Cman Wad Cutter 7.4gn (not premiers) @ 5 pumps = 771.9
RWS Supermag. Wad Cutter 10.2gn @ 1 pump = 383.9 & @ 2 pumps = 535.3
So there you go. The gun needs to dry out before I will do more speed testings but from what I see already these are hunters. I also really like how the standard deviation for both the 8 and 2 pump strings stayed at 2.23fps. It gives me great hope for an increase in one pump consistency as it dries I'd like a little more than that 415, but paper is thin.
Also with the speeds shown at medium pump counts I retract my comments about not recomending it as plinker, as long it's not scoped so you can hold it to pump with out having to do it on the barrel alone.
Hmm Maybe a router and a block of wood to make an unattached support for pumping that you could hold in front of the rear sight could put all the pumping pressure on the pump and none on the barrle. It packs a good lil thump.
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RWS Supermag Wad Cutter (sorted at 9.2gn) ten shot string @ 2 pumps
527.3, 529.2, 531.1, 535.9, 534.4, 531.8, 532.7, 533.8, 530.1, 533.4
Avg=532.0 Extrm Spred=8.59 Std Dev.=2.23
Holy Smoke !!
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Predator Polymag 8.2gn @ 5 pumps = 754.3 & @ 8 pumps 832.2
Double Holy Smoke !!
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Thanks for this writeup. I, too, have a bit of "extra leverage". I am interested in this air rifle along with the Benjamin 397/392. I hear the Benjamin's are hard pumpers also. For me, a plus with the Benjamin models is the lack of any blueing. Brass barrel, painted metal and wood means less chance of rust. Here in the Puna District of the big island of Hawaii rust is a constant problem. Due to my ancient eyesight I have to use a scope. This gun wins that subject, as the Benjamin's are more difficult to scope.
Looking forward to your accuracy results.
You are very welcome Birdmove. Greetings from about as far away in the us as you can get in the US.
I lived in South FL for about 15 years so I get that rust. I would consider the Benj. over his in those conditions. Mounting a scope on this and being able to pump it is a second factor.
I feel like I hit the lottery when I was around to pick up the 392LE with the squared up receiver that had the rail cut in with checkering on a walnut stock. That gun will be in my hands forever. But I do think for the mere matter of money the intermount by Air Ventury is a good option to glass them compared to a Crosman barrel pincher mount.
Aloha
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Predator Polymag 8.2gn @ 5 pumps = 754.3 & @ 8 pumps 832.2
Double Holy Smoke !!
YEP i could taste it when I picked it up felt the hammer spring, saw the stroke length and tried to pump it. It tasted like blood.... It's a hunter for sure.
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Put another 45 through it to check pre-break in groups with no glass tonight. That laser was my plan:
First off, what I called oil was absolutely 100% water. Now, I only shot the gun prior to this afternoons chrono tests indoors at a AC climate controlled range.
So when I set the Qtips down on White paper to see if there was any metal traces as it spread out (my version of El Cheepo chromatography) it was shocking to come home and find oil-less paper....100% dried off water and rust. What I called oil in the last post was not that at all. It had to have been shipped wet, moisture and rust was flying....
Yikes, This came WET. Those chroni rounds went through after only 35 shots. There is NO WAY i pumped that much water into this thing before those 38 rounds of chrono testing today last night. The spray I just assumed was oil was 100% water and rust. It is dry on the target and paper where the Qtips were set. Just Brown rust. Sorry to repeat myself but I was shocked...Moving on...
The shot count after tonight stands at 115. Ther was a few error reads during the chroni tests. So there was the first, then the chrono test, then adding 40 tonight.
So, that was the bad...the water... The good is...
I did not mount the laser for lack of the correct allen wrenches. So the additional 40 pellets tonight went through it with open sights, except tonight I had reading glasses. I got the same 2" 10 shot groups as the other night. But with the glasses only 2-3 of the outside shots were not a one hole mess in the middle. i didn't expect that with just Walmart reading glasses! It's been a very long time since I even tried. So this was a thrill.
It was also amazing to shoot with one pump and that tiny little mag. The mag worked flawlessly and the groups reflected the mindless cock, pump, fire cycle that keeps ya focused. This is gonna work. It has my attention now!
So the break in continues. And my optimism grows, all tonight's groups were 1 pump shots. And I see a future with this as my SSP 10m gun in the future.
I am thinking that fabricating an elongated wood pump handle that could be shaped something like an Avanti that reaches farther back toward the trigger is a possibility. That would be cool...and it seems like it could be very effective at making it a two pumper for paper in the 530 fps range. That is a really cool prospect..
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Thanks for the OD on barrel. Just looked at the schematics for the rifle. Is the barrel band that the rear site sits on, made of plastic as well? In the pic on PA looks like it could be plastic.
That band/riser was metal. And it looked to be dovetailed to be a 11mm rail on top. I was thinking maybe a small red dot out there would be cool on it too. I did not see a set screw for the plastic rear sight body yet but it could easily be under the sight's elevation lever arm. It is clearly dovetailed and slid on though. I will look into removing the adjustment screw to look for it and measuring the rail to be sure when I get to break it out again. almost all my weekends are committed to other things so hopefully Monday on that for ya.
I was thinking right away when I saw the gun. “Skinny floating barrel, not attached to pump tube, hmm..”
I wonder if you could use that rear sight barrel band twice?
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Put another 45 through it to check pre-break in groups with no glass tonight. That laser was my plan:
First off, what I called oil was absolutely 100% water. Now, I only shot the gun prior to this afternoons chrono tests indoors at a AC climate controlled range.
So when I set the Qtips down on White paper to see if there was any metal traces as it spread out (my my version of El Cheepo chromatography) it was shocking to come home and find oil-less paper....100% dried off water and rust. What I called oil in the last post was not that at all. It had to have been shipped wet, moisture and rust was flying....
Yikes, This came WET. Those chroni rounds went through after only 35 shots. There is NO WAY i pumped that much water into this thing before those 38 rounds of chrono testing today last night. The spray I just assumed was oil was 100% water and rust. It is dry on the target and paper where the Qtips were set. Just Brown rust. Sorry to repeat myself but I was shocked...Moving on...
The shot count after tonight stands at 115. Ther was a few error reads during the chroni tests. So there was the first, then the chrono test, then adding 40 tonight.
So, that was the bad...the water... The good is...
I did not mount the laser for lack of the correct allen wrenches. So the additional 40 pellets tonight went through it with open sights, except tonight I had reading glasses. I got the same 2" 10 shot groups as the other night. But with the glasses only 2-3 of the outside shots were not a one hole mess in the middle. i didn't expect that with just Walmart reading glasses! It's been a very long time since I even tried. So this was a thrill.
It was also amazing to shoot with one pump and that tiny little mag. The mag worked flawlessly and the groups reflected the mindless cock, pump, fire cycle that keeps ya focused. This is gonna work. It has my attention now!
So the break in continues. And my optimism grows, all tonight's groups were 1 pump shots. And I see a future with this as my SSP 10m gun in the future.
I am thinking that fabricating an elongated wood pump handle that could be shaped something like an Avanti that reaches farther back toward the trigger is a possibility. That would be cool...and it seems like it could be very effective at making it a two pumper for paper in the 530 fps range. That is a really cool prospect..
I think your going to either take it apart or keep adding ATF or some equivalent every few shots.
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I am thinking that fabricating an elongated wood pump handle that could be shaped something like an Avanti that reaches farther back toward the trigger is a possibility. That would be cool...and it seems like it could be very effective at making it a two pumper for paper in the 530 fps range. That is a really cool prospect..
I was thinking the same thing. I moved the pump handle back on my 392 and it made a huge difference. How is the pump arm attached? Maybe make a U-shaped fiberglass overlay that extends the pump handle back as far as possible?
Here's how I modified my 392.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-xPqv69s/0/a66ffca4/L/i-xPqv69s-L.jpg) (https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-Q9N2pc/i-xPqv69s/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-h8QV6vR/0/d9a2747b/L/i-h8QV6vR-L.jpg) (https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-Q9N2pc/i-h8QV6vR/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-LmRNbPh/0/1c9c984e/L/i-LmRNbPh-L.jpg) (https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-Q9N2pc/i-LmRNbPh/A)
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I am thinking that fabricating an elongated wood pump handle that could be shaped something like an Avanti that reaches farther back toward the trigger is a possibility. That would be cool...and it seems like it could be very effective at making it a two pumper for paper in the 530 fps range. That is a really cool prospect..
I was thinking the same thing. I moved the pump handle back on my 392 and it made a huge difference. How is the pump arm attached? Maybe make a U-shaped fiberglass overlay that extends the pump handle back as far as possible?
Here's how I modified my 392.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-xPqv69s/0/a66ffca4/L/i-xPqv69s-L.jpg) (https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-Q9N2pc/i-xPqv69s/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-h8QV6vR/0/d9a2747b/L/i-h8QV6vR-L.jpg) (https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-Q9N2pc/i-h8QV6vR/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-LmRNbPh/0/1c9c984e/L/i-LmRNbPh-L.jpg) (https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-Q9N2pc/i-LmRNbPh/A)
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I am thinking that fabricating an elongated wood pump handle that could be shaped something like an Avanti that reaches farther back toward the trigger is a possibility. That would be cool...and it seems like it could be very effective at making it a two pumper for paper in the 530 fps range. That is a really cool prospect..
I was thinking the same thing. I moved the pump handle back on my 392 and it made a huge difference. How is the pump arm attached? Maybe make a U-shaped fiberglass overlay that extends the pump handle back as far as possible?
Here's how I modified my 392.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-xPqv69s/0/a66ffca4/L/i-xPqv69s-L.jpg) (https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-Q9N2pc/i-xPqv69s/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-h8QV6vR/0/d9a2747b/L/i-h8QV6vR-L.jpg) (https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-Q9N2pc/i-h8QV6vR/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-LmRNbPh/0/1c9c984e/L/i-LmRNbPh-L.jpg) (https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-Q9N2pc/i-LmRNbPh/A)
That is so cool Bhh!!! Perfect for this gun... really nice. An added benefit is that I could keep the forend from rubbing the pump housing. There is a little rub already. it's a tight fit. The forend is just held on by a few screws all the way through...I think. I'll let you know if otherwise.
Great job on that 392... why wont they do it to start with?
Did you lengthen the metal armature to do that? I don't see the pin holes back where the original mount would be.
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That is so cool Bhh!!! Perfect for this gun... really nice. An added benefit is that I could keep the forend from rubbing the pump housing. There is a little rub already. it's a tight fit. The forend is just held on by a few screws all the way through...I think. I'll let you know if otherwise.
Great job on that 392... why wont they do it to start with?
Did you lengthen the metal armature to do that? I don't see the pin holes back where the original mount would be.
Thanks.
I think they don't do it because they want the user to wear out before the pumping mechanism.
I didn't lengthen the metal arm. I just slid the forearm back and drilled new holes in the metal arm. The wood still covers the old holes.
I'm looking forward to watching your progress.
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Now, that your mentioning the water in the valve...that could explain your high fps numbers and hard to pump? Maybe that's the norm, but with that water taking up valve your essentially over pumping. The reason it's still dumping all the air, like you said "needs to be pumped to accept a pump" would explain it still doing a full dump. Have you tried shooting it to a full 8 several times, say 3 times, then on the 4th time to 8 pumps, shot it then cock it and shoot again. See if you have air left in the valve.
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Now, that your mentioning the water in the valve...that could explain your high fps numbers and hard to pump? Maybe that's the norm, but with that water taking up valve your essentially over pumping. The reason it's still dumping all the air, like you said "needs to be pumped to accept a pump" would explain it still doing a full dump. Have you tried shooting it to a full 8 several times, say 3 times, then on the 4th time to 8 pumps, shot it then cock it and shoot again. See if you have air left in the valve.
Very interesting Rob. I'd meant to say that the gun needed to be cocked to pump (by design)...I tried to find it to correct but didn't find it fast so that will need to wait
A relatively small amount of water could occupy a high percentage of the valve volume. The Fluid was definitely wetting the probe and being drawn back into the single shot tray when it was pumped and I wiped it away as I was shooting the strings. At least what was not sent through the barrel.
I also appreciate the idea of checking for accumulated unexpeled air after a few full power rounds. I will be doing exactly that when I get to shoot again. The gun will be stored a few moments vertical before each shot and shot in the same barrel up position to try to expel what may be in there out of the valve.
Thanks for your input, It completely makes sense as a possibility. But I do really hope those numbers hold though.
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Now, that your mentioning the water in the valve...that could explain your high fps numbers and hard to pump? Maybe that's the norm, but with that water taking up valve your essentially over pumping. The reason it's still dumping all the air, like you said "needs to be pumped to accept a pump" would explain it still doing a full dump. Have you tried shooting it to a full 8 several times, say 3 times, then on the 4th time to 8 pumps, shot it then cock it and shoot again. See if you have air left in the valve.
Very interesting Rob. I'd meant to say that the gun needed to be cocked to pump (by design)...I tried to find it to correct but didn't find it fast so that will need to wait
A relatively small amount of water could occupy a high percentage of the valve volume. The Fluid was definitely wetting the probe and being drawn back into the single shot tray when it was pumped and I wiped it away as I was shooting the strings. At least what was not sent through the barrel.
I also appreciate the idea of checking for accumulated unexpeled air after a few full power rounds. I will be doing exactly that when I get to shoot again. The gun will be stored a few moments vertical before each shot and shot in the same barrel up position to try to expel what may be in there out of the valve.
Thanks for your input, It completely makes sense as a possibility. But I do really hope those numbers hold though.
I think their is a possibility that you get more FPE after the fluid is out of the valve, albeit at more pumps. Also, I bet it retains more air with more freed up volume.
Maybe if you shoot it without a pellet upside down a couple times?
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Received mine in .22, it was a little oily, but not swamped in strange liquid.
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Received mine in .22, it was a little oily, but not swamped in strange liquid.
Congratulations James ! ;D
Best Wishes - Tom
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Received mine in .22, it was a little oily, but not swamped in strange liquid.
Contrats from here too James Looking forward to seeing the speeds.
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Accuracy at 10m post
IT ROCKS.
I shot about 20 rounds since it stopped shooting out water. I dried it by pumping it all the way up. standing it muzzle upward awihle and shooting it with no pellet still pointing up. Did that three times and then shot cleaning pellets through till they ran clean. Then I ran a few Qtips down with a weed wacker push rod.
I mounted a Daisy? "Winchester" 2-7x32AO, a scope that's proven itself on my 1322. Really not bad for a very cheep scope BTW.
All shooting was indoors at one pump and I decided to try a inexpensive pellet first so it was the Crosman Premier Wadcutters. Unsorted straight from the tin with the exception of a few really poor releases on my part this rifle shoots single hole groups. Several of the 3 shot groups were not even cloverleaf...Single holes a tad bigger than one pellet. I have not been able to do this with ANY of my other .177 guns. (I really expected my FX Logun Solo to be that gun) There was no way/need to measure any thing even with these inexpensive pellets. I don't have a scoring gauge but you'd need one to try and figure out a spread.
I wonder what dome it will like that will carry better distance for hunting?
I had another thread asking people recommendations about a .177 single stroke Pneumatic for bench rest shooting. That search is over :D and as an added benefit this can be pumped up to serious power levels. A single stroke with this is adequate consistent power for 10m paper.
In fact Somehow I screwed up during the firing cycle and ended up with a pellet in the barrel while I pumped the gun half cocked. Not sure how that happened but I was switching from the shot tray to the mag. when it occurred The pellet "thooped" from the muzzle and tapped the ceiling toward the end of the single pump. The Pumping may be tough on these, but each one moves considerable volume. I am looking forward to another chrony session.
The gun was accurate enough that I am now left wanting a better trigger and believe it deserves much better. I will be doing some thing about it for this gun as well as finding a dedicated glass for it. Time was very limited so I didn't shoot it at stronger powers for groups, but I did manage pumping it twice. Tthere is definitely need for some kind of mod to allow it to be pumped more than once without jacking on the barrel or scope even with this smaller, but not compact, testing scope.
I am hoping it groups this well at higher power, if so it will get a multipower with mil dots. I wish I could test out the 3-12 bugbuster with an extended rail to move it back. It deserves better than the cheepo Ebay Sniper 3-9 power compact I got for it. My hope is that something compact will leave room for a grip in front of the scope for pumping. No way a long scope will work for me unless the pump arm is extended so you can brace way back on the stock. Or unless some sort of upper support system is used to reach around the scope. I really need to hold directly opposite the stock pump handle to pump at over two strokes.
The next shooting session with more time will be a few farther two pump groups and then removing the glass (so I can pump it more) for a revisit to the chrony to see if drying it changed the speeds. I will also get speeds for each pump count for one or two pellets.
I am happy as a pig in Sheet so far. I have my SSP ;D
More later.
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Gentle enabler, no ! Devilish tentater, yes .
I'm afraid I'm about to buy one from Krale Schietsport quite soon.
But let me tell you : should my biceps sore for a month, I however won't limit myself to a 2 or 3, or even 5 strokes before shooting. 8 looks like a good number !
I'll tell you that later on... Let me buy it first ;D. To be continued.
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How easy is it to make this gun a .25?
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I have a .22 and at 13 pumps it shoots 14.3 at 800fps. The air valve has been opened up same as 13XX Crosman. Regards, Tom
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How easy is it to make this gun a .25?
I am afraid I just don't know. I have absolutely no machining experience. Someone else would need to chime in. But the power plant is there to make it worthy of the effort.
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I have a .22 and at 13 pumps it shoots 14.3 at 800fps. The air valve has been opened up same as 13XX Crosman. Regards, Tom
Just out of curiosity, do you remember any of the speeds when it was stock at ten pumps?
I would be very curious.
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Decided to read the manual tonight... 8 pump recommended maximum LOL
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Decided to read the manual tonight... 8 pump recommended maximum LOL
That is just a suggestion. ;D ;)
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Decided to read the manual tonight... 8 pump recommended maximum LOL
That is just a suggestion. ;D ;)
yeah I never read that stuff till after my "what's up with that" moment LOL 8)
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Nice. Looking forward to more info. That muzzle piece...How is it secured to the barrel? Grub screws or possibly glue or a tight fit? Also, what's the diameter of the barrel? Looking forward to some accuracy and Chrony results.
I didn't read the whole thread, but it's actually .462. the end covered by the plastic endcap has been turned down. To remove heat the plastic and pull straight off.
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Nice. Looking forward to more info. That muzzle piece...How is it secured to the barrel? Grub screws or possibly glue or a tight fit? Also, what's the diameter of the barrel? Looking forward to some accuracy and Chrony results.
I didn't read the whole thread, but it's actually .462. the end covered by the plastic endcap has been turned down. To remove heat the plastic and pull straight off.
Thanks Ed, I am sure anyone wanting to collect dust would want to know that,
I spent about 60 .22 patches Cleaning the bore out yesterday. I really like Mac's crownsaver setup, but What a mess. It lost accuracy as more of it was pushed toward the crown. I havn't shot since then yet. Hope you are enjoying yours.
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Well, I just couldn't resist and eventually bought one in .177 caliber under the ARTEMIS Brand which, as far as I know, is just the same as the SPA and SENECA ones. It's a really nice and quite powerful piece of "all-wood-and-steel" MSP air rifle and deserves the "modern pumper" qualification we've been talking about on GTA.
Now, I allow myself to ask you for some informations/opinion, as you've been shooting this rifle for a while :
- I felt pushing the pellets with the probe in the detent chamber a bit hard. This ended with disformed skirts with another rifle (a Webley Rebel clone) at the expense of its accuracy. Did you notice the same ?
- On the rear sight, I'm confused with the windage adjustment device : two opposite screws that don't seem to have any influence on the adjustment itself. I just do it with my fingers, once the screws unscrewed. Then I screw them back cautiously so the rear sight blade can't move, but it looks a weird method.
- I need installing an LDC as the rifle sounds, to my opinion, like a .22LR rimfire when pumped more than 4 strokes. So I ordered an adapter but this one requires the front sight to be removed. The gunsmith in the company where I bought the gun and the adapter didn't remove the front sight, and said it can't be done without damaging if not destroying it. I surely won't do that :o I can't even be sure wether it's in plastic or in metal. Did you try removing it and did you succeed ?
At last, but I shouldn't confess that, I'm unable to use the 10 rounds magazine... ::) Pellets get out of it if I happen to succeed pushing them inside, and I'm afraid I might have distorted the retaining spring. Err... may be I'm going to look for a tutorial for semi-morons on the Web :o :P :-X 8).
Best regards,
Yves
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I have had some jams with the mag , haven't messed with a fix yet as I prefer the single shot tray.
I experimented with different pellets, some do require a finesse to load, others not so much, and it seems to get better with use.
The front sight is held with a grub screw, and also needs to be heated to to slip off, not sure if I can be salvaged after.
Rear sight I only had to adjust 2 clicks to get me zeroed @ 30 yards. So I didnt notice any thing strange about adjustment.
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Well, I just couldn't resist and eventually bought one in .177 caliber under the ARTEMIS Brand which, as far as I know, is just the same as the SPA and SENECA ones. It's a really nice and quite powerful piece of "all-wood-and-steel" MSP air rifle and deserves the "modern pumper" qualification we've been talking about on GTA.
Now, I allow myself to ask you for some informations/opinion, as you've been shooting this rifle for a while :
- I felt pushing the pellets with the probe in the detent chamber a bit hard. This ended with disformed skirts with another rifle (a Webley Rebel clone) at the expense of its accuracy. Did you notice the same ?
- On the rear sight, I'm confused with the windage adjustment device : two opposite screws that don't seem to have any influence on the adjustment itself. I just do it with my fingers, once the screws unscrewed. Then I screw them back cautiously so the rear sight blade can't move, but it looks a weird method.
- I need installing an LDC as the rifle sounds, to my opinion, like a .22LR rimfire when pumped more than 4 strokes. So I ordered an adapter but this one requires the front sight to be removed. The gunsmith in the company where I bought the gun and the adapter didn't remove the front sight, and said it can't be done without damaging if not destroying it. I surely won't do that :o I can't even be sure wether it's in plastic or in metal. Did you try removing it and did you succeed ?
At last, but I shouldn't confess that, I'm unable to use the 10 rounds magazine... ::) Pellets get out of it if I happen to succeed pushing them inside, and I'm afraid I might have distorted the retaining spring. Err... may be I'm going to look for a tutorial for semi-morons on the Web :o :P :-X 8).
Best regards,
Yves
Pulling the front sight off is easy, won't break anything. Heat it with a heat fun gently and pull straight off.
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I did not try to remove the front so go with what was said as my best bet. I also just removed the entire rear sight so I don't even remember how it adjusted. It was set better than my vision when it was there so I never moved it.
Accuracy lost a little as more of the Chinese gunk moved toward the muzzle from shooting. I just got it cleaned out and it is even much happier with regular light pellets now like Crosman Premiers.
Just tonight I mounted some adjustable scope mounts because when I put a weaver extension rail on it the scope had to be almost maxed out on adjustment. So parallax was extreme. I recentered and mounted it just tonight and expect great things between cleaning and scope centering. The rail was put on to allow room to use the barrel band as a pump holding point. It's a perfect set up with the cheep Spike compact RGB 3-9x40 on fleebay.
As for loading, Yep the wadcutters hang up on the way in, so I found myself holding the gun straight up to help. It does, a little, may even be better upside down, but I didn't go there yet. I assume it's the transfer port that wants some polish or maybe even rounding out.
There was no difference between the mag and the single loader on this. But I did make the mistake of tightening the cover of the mags phillips head screw. It caused binding and some fails to forward pellets that went away when I loosened it back up.
I am hoping that I can keep shooting wadcutters cause I did want this for a low pump 10m paper gun. But of not it does seem to feed domes better. Not rocket science there. It could still be a strong pumper hunter if I cant sort it out easy.
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Hey, POI if you think the transfer port is causing some binding you should look into that. I had that on a custom barrel for a 1322. It was the little metal transfer port it was the hole that was cut in the barrel. I only knew this as I recovered some pellets and they all had a cut in the heads. So I loaded a pellet and pushed it though with weed wacker string and sure enough a nice cut in the head. So took the pistol apart and there was a good size burr. So sanded it down and it's been lights out.
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I have a little "hang up" in all of my SPA guns. That transfer port has an o-ring on top and bottom. I need to get back in and see if maybe I have the breech screws too tight which may be letting the TP push into the barrel and catch the pellet.
Just thinking out loud.
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Hey, POI if you think the transfer port is causing some binding you should look into that. I had that on a custom barrel for a 1322. It was the little metal transfer port it was the hole that was cut in the barrel. I only knew this as I recovered some pellets and they all had a cut in the heads. So I loaded a pellet and pushed it though with weed wacker string and sure enough a nice cut in the head. So took the pistol apart and there was a good size burr. So sanded it down and it's been lights out.
Going out to shoot it in a few hours. I'll bring some line, Cant hurt to push a few through and look. I won't be surprised at all to find some kind of dent or nick.
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I have a little "hang up" in all of my SPA guns. That transfer port has an o-ring on top and bottom. I need to get back in and see if maybe I have the breech screws too tight which may be letting the TP push into the barrel and catch the pellet.
Just thinking out loud.
Hmmm. I can see that happening. maybe simpler than even deburriing. We'll see how it does tonight. I really like it so far.
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Too dang many irons in my fire. I have a good going over on the list for all my SPA guns.
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Too dang many irons in my fire. I have a good going over on the list for all my SPA guns.
Yeah well here is a close up of a RWS R-10 pellet that was chambered and pushed back into the port. Just bought them for this gun.
I get wordy in my posts... this pic will speak for it self. This pellet was polished smooth match grade going in. I will say that after this I went back to fun shooting the Crosman Prem. W/C that have a slight rounding head and it went back to minute of squirrel head after the disaster groups that this caused. This happened on all but the Xmans... Have not checked domes but Without some internal love this is a hunter not a paper gun.
.... Grrrr. I am such a non computer guy...typing again after a pic post fail....
....Well the first try at attaching a photo file said its too big. What ya would have seen is a cool super close up of 1/4 of the head edge pulled back into a shaving behind the head of the pellet....
guess I gotta read Lizz's help on posting. I ain't typing another word till that Pic is the next post on this thread. It's horrifying :o
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POI..
If you're using Windows 7 or higher just bring the pic up on your screen and use the "snipping tool" found in accessories to capture the picture and save it on the desktop. It will take any picture up to the size of your screen and reduce into .jpeg format within the GTA posting parameters. Lots of ways to resize a picture but, I find this the easiest for me. I pin it to my task bar and it's always at the ready. Works just like cropping a picture.
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Thanks for the suggestion. I went to the MSN store and downloaded "Image resizer"...
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OHHhhh....The horror.... Bigger is badder.
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Now the fun begins. So something is crushing the one side? Hard to tell even with the resizer, lol.
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If they are coming out of the magazine, I could see that. The single shot tray loads them straighter. It looks like they are deformed smoothly, so I'm guessing tipping while loading.
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I suspect the transfer port.... I hope I can get down through the "to do" list and get to mine this weekend.
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Now the fun begins. So something is crushing the one side? Hard to tell even with the resizer, lol.
Yeah, it started binding when the pellet was pushed in. It was better before all the &^^& was cleaned out of the barrel. Then I really felt it biting and the groups opened up after it was cleaned ...Guess all the grime was acting like lube or helping keep the pellets lined up to feed better.
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Now it is happening on the bottom side(TP side) of pellet?
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What is the barrel OD of this gun? I think a .25 cal pumper would be cool.
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What is the barrel OD of this gun? I think a .25 cal pumper would be cool.
The diameter is listed in one of the postes earlier... Someone else asked as well. I do think the power plant is worthy
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Now it is happening on the bottom side(TP side) of pellet?
Very good question! That was my assumption Rob, But they popped out of the breech onto the table. I may try to put a rubber band on the bolt handle to keep one in place for inspection before assuming anything again on this.
I assumed I was not consistent enough with my cheek weld and that the scope being almost maxed out on adjustment was my consistency issue. I assumed optic corrections could help and spent resources there. Maybe that was was needed maybe not.
Diagnosing correctly then fixing this should have definitely come first. Maybe fixing this is out of the realm of my personal abilities and available hobby time and that was a waste on this gun. Thank you for suggesting there was another possibility. I really need to check.
I also reached out to the seller on a PM here for their feedback on another post about these pellets... we will see. I would like to think it's an isolated case they may help resolve.
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When you push the pellet out. Have the muzzle down flat on the table. This way it won't drop out and you will know what side it's getting messed up at.
Another question. Upon watching the review video posted by "airgunweb" I noticed the bolt moves when he shoots. Is there any seal issue when you shoot? Could also be linked with the pellet getting mushed up.
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When you push the pellet out. Have the muzzle down flat on the table. This way it won't drop out and you will know what side it's getting messed up at.
Another question. Upon watching the review video posted by "airgunweb" I noticed the bolt moves when he shoots. Is there any seal issue when you shoot? Could also be linked with the pellet getting mushed up.
Aren't you assuming the rifling won't twist the pellet? I think he's pushing the pellet in with the bolt and then using a rod to push it back into the loading port... that's what I would do anyhow.
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Good point Bill. Yup load it and push back out the loading port. Mark the pellet first with a sharpie. So then you know where is where.
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Good point Bill. Yup load it and push back out the loading port. Mark the pellet first with a sharpie. So then you know where is where.
When you push the pellet out. Have the muzzle down flat on the table. This way it won't drop out and you will know what side it's getting messed up at.
Another question. Upon watching the review video posted by "airgunweb" I noticed the bolt moves when he shoots. Is there any seal issue when you shoot? Could also be linked with the pellet getting mushed up.
Yes I am pushing back into the loading port. I did have the gun upright but it sticks badly on the way pushing back too so it was popping out of the loading port. So I thought of the rubber band the bolt thing.
Marking pellet, yeah way too simple for me to think of on my own... uh duh. Thanks.
I will definitely lay a tissue over the breech and check for blow back too. Let you know to see what you think soon. thanks again.
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I'm betting it's the TP.
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PA has seen the same photos of the pellets posted in the Chinese guns gate. I offered to let them respond before I made any more posts here. I have had great experiences with them for years. They stepped up with senior management contacting me directly on Email.
I was asked to return the gun for replacement with the promise that the new gun sent would pass trough their tecs. hands for inspection loading the specific wadcutters I got in bulk from them before the gun being sent to me. Also pellets used in sorting this out would be replaced. pretty cool offer.
A paid shipping label was sent to me shortly after by the returns dept. So it went back to UPS this evening.
Now the waiting begins. But, two brown truck waits for the price of one. Reminded me of the thread started by a guy wearing a hole in his carpet waiting for a new FX guy a few days back. Time to go outside and fling some bigger lead in this nice weather.
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Right there is, and will always be, the difference in doing business with PA and and doing business with these other mom and pop shops. Customer service is a huge part of the whole experience.
I'll be the first to admit that in the beginning, I was kind of wishy washy with the whole rebranding thing and somewhat misleading marketing such as "German beech stock" suggesting the guns were made in Germany when, in fact, they were the same Chinese guns sold by other importers. (I know the thread is about the Seneca Dragonfly and not the Diana Stormrider but it the same basics) It's distributors like PA that makes the difference. Just because you're able to work a deal with someone like SPA and swing a deal on a ship container of airguns does not make you a top notch airgun distributor. It's what you do during and after the sale that makes or breaks you.
In my 4 short years of being a member of the great forum I've seen the good and the bad in air gun retail and service. We've seen many come and go and it usually comes down to customer service. It only takes one or two bad situations to put a small upstart out of the game. You can paint your storefront any color you want, it's not going to change what's inside.
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I couldn't agree more. Business longevity is about plan "B" not plan "A". The "A" plan is where everything goes perfect. Plan "B" not so much...
Speaking to that. Well They sent a new gun That shipped within hours of the first going back. Guess they trusted me... They sent me a email saying that I earned $5 bullseye bucks for them shipping late...I suppose technically I am waiting for a good gun. And they replaced two tins of pellets. Great start if it's a shooter
I hope communication I had with management was effectively sent to the testers before it being sent, It went out FAST!! I had included pictures of the pellet clipping and a request that they make sure the RWS R-10's would feed. I have never spent that much on pellets before! And of course I got four tins...Not cheep. I mentioned with the photo I packed with the gun that I wanted to be sure they would feed. Fingers crossed.
Tracking says it's due tomorrow, my day off....GO Pyramyd!!!
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It don't surprise me... with so many jumping into the game, smart business people will fight for your loyalty.
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Dragonfly V2.0 arrived super fast. They sent me a beauty of a replacement. It was much drier and what little was in the valve I learned to quickly remove by pointing the gun up and pumping without cocking until it stopped gurgeling, then cocking and pumping to fire. Now to clean my ceiling ...
The barrel was much cleaner, but still needed cleaning out. 5 patches instead of 60. But I still say it needs seasoning with lead before any real accuracy judgments. So grouping comparisons were just to check for absolute "NO GO" groups. In general It still grabs a hair. But it is WAY better! We all know AGs are pellet picky, loading is part of that in my book.
So trying everything fresh...
RWS R-10's are an absolute no go pellet for my V2.0. I think they are a super soft lead with a really big squared off head meant for $2000 guns. Damage was visible when magnified. They shot accordingly.
RWS Supermags are just almost going in clean. I had to really search for the bind spot on pellets that went in ok. They are shooting much better...but every few shots (1 of every 8 ) one grabs more and is a flier. I am on the fence...
CPWC already are grouping well and the bbl isn't even seasoned from the cleaning. l got a gun that will cycle w/c pellets as Pyramyd promised. B)
CPHP, H&N Barracuda hunters and H&N Sniper Mediums showed promise.
No go's were Crosman Destroyers, Beeman Kodiak X Heavy... CPUMD I need to retest just not sure...fatigue factor.
This gun is a beauty. I think there is a chance they sent me one from a select sample lot that were chosen to be a test guns, sent to dealers, before an order was placed for bulk marketing. Or, they hand selected it...or I got real lucky. The forestock and butt were one piece with some really nice grain swirls at the cheek and nice straight strong looking grain leading up on the hand that bends to straight toward the pump. And the color match between the two is much better! Very VERY nice looking! i really needed a .177 to shoot wad cutters at paper. But even if it only cycled domes well I would definitely be keeping this. It is an excellent specimen I will not give up.
It is averaging about 10 FPS below V1.0 but I attribute that to the fluid present in the valve during chrony tests on V1.0 as suggested by others.
Accuracy to follow after break-in.
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Pictures!
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Pictures!
;D Glady!
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Yup, that's some nice grain!
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Yup, that's some nice grain!
Thanks Randy. Shot another 50 or so through it tonight. It's not liking the premier domes much after all. I may do a recrown because they are feeding just fine but all over the place as far as grouping. I set a scope on it and removed the stock rear sight to use that band as a pumping point so it wont miss the front sight if I do need it off to do the recrown. It's still gonna get an absolute minimum of another 150 at least before I decide.
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I wouldn't do a recrown based on results with Crosman Premier Domes. It could be just a bad package of them.
My Hatsan 95 loved them, and then I bought another tin and they were all over the place. Emailed Crosman about it and they sent me a replacement tin and they shoot very well.
Just sayin', just make sure it's not the pellets before you recrown.
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Got That... Maybe try the tin in another gun first, or at least sort some by some weights to check for wide variances. I wouldn't work on most guns, but this is a nice one and if needed It may get some attention as a last resort.
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I have put a few hundred various pellets through it now. By far the best wadcutter turns out to be the Crosman "competition" wadcutter, Not the premiers but the ones sold as plinkers. Probably a little smaller head if I had to guess. They just feed smoother and come out more consistently. I would suggest giving them a try. I plan to weight sort them and maybe get a sizer to try to squeeze the best of of them by setting up batches that match best. Nice bonus is that they are dirt cheep.
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I'm betting it's the TP.
Almost two months later... I bought a bunch of $25 dollar guns to gain some confidence in pulling apart and reassembling different pumpers. So after a very fun and satisfying trigger job and general smoothing on a SM900, a breakdown of a discounted new 880, and a really happy ending on a resealing job for the B10-50 (It's Baaaack ;D ) I decides to man up and figure out WTFrog was up with the breech bind and getting satisfactory groups with the 177DF.
This was the second gun from PA. They sent this sweet looking replacement for one that just ate pellets loading.... This was better but not 100%.
So....Yep TP.
If it's not common knowledge (beyond me) you don't touch the receiver breakdown and just slack off the barrel band at the rear sight and release the three grubs atop the receiver. They were hidden by the scope put on back at day one...Duh. The barrel will slide out the front, I used some dental tools and a Dremmel little round rasp bit and hand tooled the nasty grab. ...at least till I cold't feel a bite anymore and thought I'd angled it toward the muzzle side a bit. It's a much happier gun to say the least.
I am certain that smoothing/polishing that more will make the feed and groups even better, I did course work for sure, but I am back on track for a good shooter.
What I also start thinking was that there was a chance the gun was ported for .22. And whats so sweet from that, for smoking .177s downrange, also created a really wide TP for a .177 loading ...Still trying to figure it all out. How the heck do ya hand shape and polish inside a .177 tube?!?!
But I made it way better already with a bunch of different pellets. So I will figure a way to work in there for a super smooth feed and then start over with shooting it and knowing what to expect.
Been a couple fun weeks messing with the cheep stuff to get here.
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repeat post deleted
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I had my gun back to Air Venturi twice, after the seconded trip it came back loading smooth and shooting well. I am very happy with it now. I am glad you got yours soothed out and working.
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Glad you got ironed out as well. I have heard much better of the .22 ver. So naturally I feel the need to bring a .177 there too. It will be a beast pumper. I mounted a weaver rail extension cut a bit shorter to the rear iron sight/barrel band rail. It made a great forward pumping brace above the gun. I don't even touch the barrel when pumping now. The same rail facing back puts a bugbuster far enough back to sight well with a sold cheek weld . Gotta put a few pics up of how it is set up some time. The mag just fits in there.
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I thought an update was due because a member reached out regarding the SSP potential of this and with time I'd learned more.
First off I'd say that now that all fluids have cleared, long ago actually, It was time to revisit the SSP consistancy and accuracy. I now have to agree with the Mfgr. recomendations of min two strokes. I only tested with the known best paper pellets. They were CPWC AND CP DESTROYER. Groups just don't hold at one pump any more. Maybe it will with other pellets that didn't like more pumps. One day I will check that too.
I presume it could be made into a dedicated SSP by reducing the valve volume like when it was wet. But stock and just cleaned up ... it gets a no go on one pump.
That said pumping has mellowed a ton and two is no problem for my needs.
Also I don't remember if I put it on this thread but the TP did need to be debured. The Barrel comes off so easy it's almost funny, Loosen the band and grubs on the top of the breech and its off. But it did need to be done on both the guns I received, so it needs to be said. After that with those two pellets in this second gun it's one hole at 10m after about 500 pellets to season it.
To avoid relying on the top of the scope to pump and not wanting to pump off the floating barrel I did this with weaver rail attached to the stock rear sight rail. It's not for me, but I'll bet if someone were inclined a peep could be rigged on there pretty sweet instead of a scope if the slot didn't work for you.
Happily the stock looks better in person than in this photo. Light glare kind of makes it look worse here
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Looking at how easy the barrel is to remove... this gun seems like it would be easy to convert to a .25.
Didn’t someone do that here? I’m guessing barrel to fit, and open up everything involved in loading it?
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Can you measure barrel OD? Thank you.
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Looking at how easy the barrel is to remove... this gun seems like it would be easy to convert to a .25.
Didn’t someone do that here? I’m guessing barrel to fit, and open up everything involved in loading it?
I would bet it will be SUPER easy for someone if it hasn't been done. Open up the breech and probe it right and your done after you Barrel band it for whatever the new OD is. The power plant is very worth of the effort.
I will measure it for you but beware that my digital caliper is a plastic POS from harbor freight.
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Horatio, The muzzle guard/sight seems to be glued or pressed in place and the barrel O.D. is .475 Inches.
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Horatio, The muzzle guard/sight seems to be glued or pressed in place and the barrel O.D. is .475 Inches.
Thank you. .475=12mm
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My apologies, if what I am adding has been covered. Else, it may help you like your new Dragonfly a lot sooner. Specifically, about addressing the high pumping effort and very rough bore: https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=155047.msg155710006#msg155710006 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=155047.msg155710006#msg155710006)