GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => China/Asian AirGun Gate => Topic started by: Hoosier Daddy on April 10, 2018, 06:47:49 PM
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I bought a QB58 from a VERY reputable member here on GTA who originally posted....
The QB58 is a beautiful side-lever rifle in .22 that shoots right at 600 with Beeman Round pellets (will include 2 tins of them). This rifle is as new and HAS been taken down, cleaned and lubed. The cocking action and shot cycle is smooth and the accuracy is outstanding. This rifle has right around 750 pellets through it and was my go to plinker when I was outside grilling. At 25m I am shooting sub-quarter sized groups rested; she is not hold sensitive at all. Yes, this is a Chinese rifle but it is seriously impressive and built very nicely. I can shoot this rifle all day without fatigue due to its carbine size and ease of cocking. This rifle will not disappoint!
I will not share his name because I believe he was completely honest and do not want to "drag him through the mud"
It is a beautiful gun and I am very smitten with its appearance. Problem is, I can not hit squat with it. I am versed in Springers and know the artillary hold. I have tried shooting it off bags with nothing more than fringer on the trigger and as lite cheek weld as possible. little to no presure... all the way to holding it tight against my shoulder with my left hand on the stock..
Every time it is the same results... the more shots I take the larger the pattern grows. Starts out at 20 yards with a 2" group and grows to 4" with no prediction of where the POI will be. ::)
I have tried all my .22 pellets from the lowly Ruger Pointed to the CPHP, the JSB 15 and 18's, H&N FTT in 5.53 and 5.55 and their 5.51 waddcutters, up to the AA 18g heavies.
Each provides a different POI, but the all have the same out come. Pattern keeps growing the more I shoot.
I contacted Mike M. at Flying Dragon and he offered to tune it for $75 but said some of those Chinese barrels will never preform well.
I find it hard to believe this gun is one of those from the sellers statement above.
I did notice the gun smoked at first... like it was dieseling during break-in, but never detonated. Understandable with the statement "rifle is as new and HAS been taken down, cleaned and lubed."
Now the smoking has cleared but the accuracy continues to fail.
I planned on cleaning the barrel, maybe even polishing it with some grinding compound. Then touching up the crown. But to me, neither of these would explain a GROWING pattern with more shots taken (20).
Cripe, maybe something like a scope change. Problem is the first 2-3 shots are right on, then things go south in a hurry.
ANY ADVISE???
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If you have a known good scope, I'd try swapping scopes first. It might take a couple of shots to loosen it up after sitting for awhile.
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Scott,
I too have a QB58, Mine is not scope friendly, I had not luck with paper punching until I put a Williams peep on the and a Lyman peep on the front. BTW, mine is a .177, it shoots Misters 7.0 into a half inch at 10 yards. Oh, MM tuned mine also. Not what I would consider to be stellar accuracy. Its trigger is as good as the one on my FWB 300S. I should have with me at Jimmy's 'Look forward to meeting you.
The QB58 isn't part of the family, it doesn't have to return to central Illinois.
BobH.
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Outstanding Bob!
I am planning on bringing it to Jimmy's for advise and help. This one has me stumpped.
I will pack scopes and wrenches.
Looking forward to meeting up with you finally!
I am starting to feel the same way about mine, but DANG she's purdy.
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Scott,
I went out to the shed and put 3 pellets thru the QB58, I got lucky a .31 group c to c. That was me cold and in a hurry. Got to luv those peeps. BTW, I have extra B21 .177 barrels and action tubes.
BobH.
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Oh sure.... rub salt in the wound. ;)
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If you have a known good scope, I'd try swapping scopes first. It might take a couple of shots to loosen it up after sitting for awhile.
I've no experience with this particular rifle,but went through similar circumstances with a B3 and later a Ruger Airhawk.
Both were scope killers.
And once a good scope was on the air hawk,there was a big difference in poi between shooting off bags and shooting free hand.
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Them crazy springers...
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Mine is .177 and only stacks Beeman HP coated 7.2 followed by CPL 7.9 ragged hole @ 17yrds
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I got a PM from the seller, what a super guy!
He must have read this post and was sorry I was having my issues. He let me know when he had it, he seems to remember it like the RWS SuperDomes, H&N Excite Domes, as well.
He even offered to buy it back if I get too frustrated because he liked it so much...
Well, I am once again feeling better. Those two pellets I have not tried.
I checked the pellet stash and the partial tin of Superdomes I have are .177 ::)
Tonight I will swap scopes, clean the barrel, and try some indoor 10M shooting with the pellets I have. I may need to get another pellet order in, after all, a guy can't have too many of those right? ;)
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my QB-58 .22 loves super domes ! it will also shoot Gamo Hunters ,the old Daisy wadcutters and even the "junky Crosman hollow points in a pinch" :o
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Thanks Tim....
So I cleaned the barrel with Goo-gone on a patch, not filthy but a little dark.
It took about 8 patches fresh to come out clean and dry.
Rechecked the stock screws and the scope mount / rings torque. I did get about 1/4 turn out of the rings, but they had showed no sign of slipping. I took a good hard look at the crown and see nothing apparent.
I then set up the table, bags, and pellet trap indoors at 10M (32') to do some more tests.
First up was the H&N Sport wadcutters. 13.73g- 5 hots, each a little right of POA but I wasn't going for "10 ring" accuracy, just a group. A little smoke for the the first few, but yielded a nice 1/2" group, again that is not abnormal for the first few shots with this rifle. The first shot was the highest but the other 4 were all touching the same hole. So next I grabbed the CPHP 14.3g.. FAIL, varied from either 1-1/2" to the right, or 2" high and a 3-1/4" CTC shot-gun pattern. :( Next came the H&N FTT's 14.66g in a 5.53mm size. OK, better than the CPHP's with a 1" group but POI even further to the right. I then tried the Air Arms Field Heavy 18g. their group rivaled the CPHP's at 3" but low and to the right.
Thinking I was onto an issue with the scope moving I went back to the first pellet H&N wadcutters. While that group had grown a bit to 3/4", the POI moved back to just right of the POA.
From what others have posted, and what I am seeing here, I think I need to get some more pellets, thinking the RWS Superdomes are 14.5 everyone seems to recommend, and the Beemans are 15.2g. H&N Excites are 14.66... Maybe some JSB Jumbo Express 14.3, I have been wanting those for a while to test against their 15.8 and 18.1's that I have already tried.
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Follow up...
Today I received the pellet order of a special purchase for this gun.
Recommended favorite were the RWS Super Domes, H&N excite Hammers, and judging from their weight I bought a tin of JSB Express 14.35g just to try.
Well they arrived today on a calm clear night so what better chance to try.... Right?
At first the Super domes were horrenous. The Excites the same but the JSB Express showed promise... all at 25 yards.
But as the night wore on... talking 200+ shots the jig was up...Nothing was an outstanding winner.
Then I thought about this gun still smellin and smokin so I kept on shooting.
Thinking of the adage "shoot it straight"
The RWS Super Domes were a slight advantage at a group UNDER 4" at 25 yards!!! :o
Here are my last 3 groups.
It suddenly all came together on the last group so I kept on shooting till the daylight failed. Last pic is the first flyer and then 10 shots all touching!!!
::) :o ;D
If I could say What the "F"... I would.
Now these were all within 15 minutes, same pellet, same hold, same conditions. I quit after the last "Got It" group. If the next time this gun comes out I shoot another shotgun group I am truly done..... at least for a day or two. ;)
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Bust out the chrono if you haven't already....
Sounds to me like the speeds are varying. Make sure that spring is spinning free and not binding or grabbing the thrust washer or piston. Might even be a leaky piston or breech seal.
How does the trigger feel? Are you pulling off your mark when you shoot it?
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Good point Bill,
I will try and "Chrono-connect" it tonight.
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Good point Bill,
I will try and "Chrono-connect" it tonight.
Scott...there is a review at AA on this gun. Have you read it ? We are not supposed to post anything about AA here in the GTA, to read this review you must go to their Web Site. It talks about the things that you are experiencing with your gun and posts Chronograph info.
I sure Hope this can help you. Best Wishes to You - Tom
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Yeah... POI will change from shot to shot if FPS is changing from shot to shot. Many things can change FPS in a springer.
Also.. many pellets like a certain range of FPS. If you have a gun that is bouncing in and out of that range at the upper or lower extreme it would only seem logical that the given pellet will like one shot and not the next.
Just some of the frustrating characteristics of a springer. This is why a good tune has such an affect on springers. Shot to shot consistency is key.
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So tomorrow I will crunch the numbers in an excel spread sheet.
But in 25 shots the FPS at 30' lowest was 444, highest was 452... guessing the average was 447 judging from the majority of the shots.
That is a 8 fps spread at its EXTREME.
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So tomorrow I will crunch the numbers in an excel spread sheet.
But in 25 shots the FPS at 30' lowest was 444, highest was 452... guessing the average was 447 judging from the majority of the shots.
That is a 8 fps spread at its EXTREME.
Seems as tho you eliminated that as an issue.
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Had one in .22 and could never find a pellet it would shoot well. Tried several scopes that were tried and true and a couple of different red dots and finally gave up. That was my last attempt at polishing a $)((#. Loved the look of the rifle but couldn’t hit a target.
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Here are the numbers for 30'.
Pellet the same tin of RWS Superdome, 14.5g
449
448
447
447
450
449
444
448
446
448
446
450
446
447
450
449
452
448
447
450
450
450
448
451
452
448 Avg
8 Ext
1.98 SD
After shooting this test I proceeded to move right to a bull at the same distance as before and had a mediocre pattern, not horrible, but not like the last one.
You remember that Hot Chick in school that would let you get to first, then second base... but never really put out.... no matter how you tried.... Just gave enough to keep you coming back again and again... ::)
THAT is this gun
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At my age, that would be sufficient....
I could deal with the gun as well.
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Touche'
;)
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I had one in .22 also... its favorite pellet was the kodiak... but the trajectory was so arched that it made it more a piece of artillery than a rifle, and that is why it left... i do miss it though. and it was accurate, when the pellet finally connected after long, rainbow mimicking flights. All those sidelevers from china are great... the B5 AK look alike being top on my list...
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To me, with those numbers, it should be relatively easy to put the pellet in the same place every time.
::)
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Yep.... sounds like a fly in the ointment somewhere.
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If ahe ever frustrates you too much.. Ill happily buy her back. Im glad to aee the velocity so consistent.
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Brett, I have NOT gotten to that point. But once again I do appreciate the offer.
I believe we are getting to know each other and she is coming around.
I have not eliminated it is "Operator Error" yet... The previous dieseling from your recent lube and my barrel cleaning seems to have subsided now.
Maybe just not holding my mouth right. ;D
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Tonight it was clear, calm, and cool summer night. The Qb58 and I had a talk.
"Look, I like you, why don't you like me?
I bought you your favorite pellets, plus more to choose from.
I have held you gentle and loving... I even bought you a nice new scope just for you.
Why don't you just cooperate and make use both happy?
I don't want to send you back... But if you continue to defy me so... You see that tree or that lake? So help me GOD I will surely put you to a demise."
So I got out the last of it's favorite pellets and took a deep breath. Concentrated very hard and placed it in the same position each time, as little pressure as possible on the hold....
Well some thing worked.
A little zeroing and this is 5 shots at 20 yards.
Seems it listened to live another day!!!
*Edit* at the end of the night I am hitting spinners at 30 yards 9 out of 10... The last shot was a knock-down "Hail Mary" off hand standing with artillery hold at another 30 yards. NAILED IT!
I think it likes listening to Bon Scot (https://open.spotify.com/track/68BtOetr0J6bl3XueCHRfz?context=spotify%3Auser%3Ascottfortress%3Acollection&si=OzdQRUeUQy6IV6yqwcDLnA)
;D
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as saying goes.... treat her nice and you'll come nicely too.......................................................
with the groupings :o(did I say that right) ??? ::)
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Tonight it was clear, calm, and cool summer night. The Qb58 and I had a talk.
"Look, I like you, why don't you like me?
I bought you your favorite pellets, plus more to choose from.
I have held you gentle and loving... I even bought you a nice new scope just for you.
Why don't you just cooperate and make use both happy?
I don't want to send you back... But if you continue to defy me so... You see that tree or that lake? So help me GOD I will surely put you to a demise."
So I got out the last of it's favorite pellets and took a deep breath. Concentrated very hard and placed it in the same position each time, as little pressure as possible on the hold....
Well some thing worked.
A little zeroing and this is 5 shots at 20 yards.
Seems it listened to live another day!!!
*Edit* at the end of the night I am hitting spinners at 30 yards 9 out of 10... The last shot was a knock-down "Hail Mary" off hand standing with artillery hold at another 30 yards. NAILED IT!
I think it likes listening to Bon Scot (https://open.spotify.com/track/68BtOetr0J6bl3XueCHRfz?context=spotify%3Auser%3Ascottfortress%3Acollection&si=OzdQRUeUQy6IV6yqwcDLnA)
;D
So glad to hear this. I was worried that you thought she was a dud.
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So glad to hear this. I was worried that you thought she was a dud.
I knew better all along, it has taken a bit to get to know each other is all.
Just like back in school... Finally nailed that tease. ;)
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Congrats Scott, you finally mastered this rifle.
Wish you a lot of more fun with it like tonight.
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Tonight was "date night" with the tease again...
Once I remembered how she liked to be held the groups came into place once again.
So I ventured away from her RWS Superdome diet.
The previous failed H&N sport wad cutter was now a winner as well!!!
Here is 5 shots at 20 yards
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This gun either hates or loves me.
Sunday I could not hit the broad side of a barn... Contacted the seller to take him up on his offer on buying it back.. I was tapping out.
Tonight it is nailing 20 yard bulls and 35 yard pop cans with proper hold over...
Seriously!?!
What a tease
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Yeah buddy, I know that feeling as well. I had a Beeman Silver Kodiak that did that same thing to me. I think that I tried just about everything. I'd hit a bull at 100' then would miss the paper all together. When the dieselling started, I nearly wet myself. With all the pine trees in my yard, I am surprised it made to store for return.
Mitch