GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Machine Shop Talk & AG Parts Machining => Wood Chop Shop (Working with wood) => Topic started by: DevilsLuck on April 07, 2018, 06:04:57 PM
-
I've refinished numerous stocks using Tru-Oil. The results have been pleasing, and I don't have a problem with it really. But when I line them up next to each other; they seem to have an eerie sameness about them. I'm wondering what other finishes y'all use besides Tru-Oil.
For instance I have a Daisy 853 that came with a honey blonde stock. I like the look. But it needs redoing. If I go the Tru-Oil route; it'll just be another reddish, dark brown rifle stock. What are my other options? Anything that brings out the character; yet remains lighter colored?
-
Try several topcoats of amber shellac over a poly stain.
-
Try several topcoats of amber shellac over a poly stain.
Poly stain?
-
I've used Linseed oil on muzzloader stocks in the past. but from there switched to Forby's Tung oil. Had great results with that.
-
I've used Minwax Wipe on Poly. They have a gloss and satin. I believe I used the satin. Very easy to work with.
Dan
-
Tung oil is my choice for beautification.
-
Tung oil is my choice for beautification.
yes that !!!
i refinished a 1959 russian sks stock in tung-oil...it brought the grain out.
it still looks amazing since it was done 30years ago ;)
-
You can make wipe on poly ( oil base) by diluting minwax poly cut 50/50 with odorless paint thinner..
-
Search the mil surplus forums for the 1/3 stock finish. boiled linseed oil, Shellac, and a drier, It might still be on the swiss K31 forum
-
You can make wipe on poly ( oil base) by diluting minwax poly cut 50/50 with odorless paint thinner..
The stock in your attached pic is a close approximation of what I'm going for.
-
Try several topcoats of amber shellac over a poly stain.
Poly stain?
I use this product.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001DT1IZS/ref=asc_df_B001DT1IZS5431366/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033&creativeASIN=B001DT1IZS&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198071503086&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=10126156213559558927&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9012121&hvtargid=pla-511352535992 (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001DT1IZS/ref=asc_df_B001DT1IZS5431366/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033&creativeASIN=B001DT1IZS&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198071503086&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=10126156213559558927&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9012121&hvtargid=pla-511352535992)
-
I have used Minwax Antique oil on this CZ 236, and on some other airguns stocks as well. I must say I was very pleased with the results!
https://www.minwax.com/wood-products/specialty-finishes/minwax-antique-oil-finish (https://www.minwax.com/wood-products/specialty-finishes/minwax-antique-oil-finish)
-
Water based stain and sprayed catalyzed lacquer.
-
Stripped the original finish but kept original dye. Added water based stain, let dry 30 or so hours then evened up the color with oil based stain then sprayed with catalyzed lacquer.
Added the vent dados too.
-
Two stocks, one walnut, one beech. Both dyed with yellow dye then stained with solvent based stain. Finished with sprayed conversion varnish.
-
Solvent based stain and catalyzed lacquer.
-
Beeman R1 beech stock, dyed yellow, stained with water based stain, sprayed with aliphatic urethane satin.
-
That’s not fair Tim! You’re a pro. I think you should open up shop for refinishing airgun stocks. Beautiful work by the way, every single one of them.
-
Thanks Brett,
Just trying to show some different materials that can be used. Unfortunately, most of the clear coat material I use is more commercial and is applied by spray equipment. The dyes and stains are hand applied. True oil seems to be the go to finish for diy’ers on gun stocks and yet is never used in the finishing industry.
It’s been a few years but a known stock maker made a post here on the GTA. His opinion was that true oil was an inferior product and said if you have to hand apply your finish, minwax had a great old school oil finish that was way superior to true oil. I believe it was minwax antique oil finish. You can find it on amazon.
In all fairness, I’ve never used this product so I’m only going by what I read. That being said, I’ve been in the industry for a long time and companies like birchwood Casey are not finish makers but just label someone else’s finish. I tend to believe minwax has a bigger steak in the finish game. And though I don’t use minwax products much, their polycrylic finish is fantastic clear coat for some applications.
Just trying to share a few ideas.
Higgs
-
Thanks Brett,
Just trying to show some different materials that can be used. Unfortunately, most of the clear coat material I use is more commercial and is applied by spray equipment. The dyes and stains are hand applied. True oil seems to be the go to finish for diy’ers on gun stocks and yet is never used in the finishing industry.
It’s been a few years but a known stock maker made a post here on the GTA. His opinion was that true oil was an inferior product and said if you have to hand apply your finish, minwax had a great old school oil finish that was way superior to true oil. I believe it was minwax antique oil finish. You can find it on amazon.
In all fairness, I’ve never used this product so I’m only going by what I read. That being said, I’ve been in the industry for a long time and companies like birchwood Casey are not finish makers but just label someone else’s finish. I tend to believe minwax has a bigger steak in the finish game. And though I don’t use minwax products much, their polycrylic finish is fantastic clear coat for some applications.
Just trying to share a few ideas.
Higgs
I hope that you know I was just ribbin’ ya. It’s good that you share your work. We all appreciate a craftsman and his work and that means YOU!
I have used Waterlox original, oil based poly thinned to make it a wipe on (easy actually), just plain ol’ Watco Danish oil along with furniture wax over the top (gives it a dull, natural look but darkens the wood and shows some figure off if any) and I have used simple spray lacquer from a can (Deft).
The Waterlox was the most time consuming and it takes time to build, knock down, build, knock down..... then some final polishing. It’s a durable finish. You can take it to any level of sheen but it’s designed to be semi gloss from the can.
Oil based wipe on poly is easy to apply and a tough finish too. Easier than Waterlox, that’s for sure. It better on tighter grained woods like maple where the pores don’t need filled like walnut. The poly lays on top of the wood while the oil will penetrate the wood to help show grain and figure. The poly will amber or yellow over time. I like that on lighter woods. Not sure how it works on a nice rich brown like walnut. Scuff sanding is required between coats to have the next coat adhere to it. That takes a little work but once you get used to working with it, it’s not too bad really.
Canned Lacquer is fast and easy and stays clear. It has a plastic feel to it when handled. It polishes well with Mothers Mag and Aluminum Polish. Be sure it’s cured well before polishing. It will fill details like checkering if just sprayed on. It can be thinned on the surface of the wood by wiping it with a nitrile gloved hand or a clean soft toothbrush to get into the details. You have to work fast before it starts to flash off or it gets sticky. We’re talking seconds fast. Nice thing with lacquer is it chemically bonds to the previous layer so no scuff sanding is needed between layers. It can be recoated in about 15 minutes too so building layers is quick.
Danish oil and wax is easiest but probably doesn’t give much protection from the elements. I don’t take my stuff out into the weather so it’s not an issue for me. It’s also easy to touch up. If it’s looking too dull just wax it up again and it looks good. I use either Johnson’s or minwax furniture wax over the oil after it’s cured a few days. When applying the oil, if it looks dry, add another coat. I keep adding every few hours until it stops taking the oil and doesn’t look dry. Let it cure a few days then apply the wax.
I’m no professional. I like to experiment some. I don’t like it difficult or time consuming. Basically I stick with what I have had success with and know what has worked for me.
-
Two stocks, one walnut, one beech. Both dyed with yellow dye then stained with solvent based stain. Finished with sprayed conversion varnish.
Could you elaborate on what you meant by yellow dye? And how you applied it? I recently tried Keda dye in a blue color. But I couldn’t get the stock to take it evenly; and had to sand it all down...
-
Two stocks, one walnut, one beech. Both dyed with yellow dye then stained with solvent based stain. Finished with sprayed conversion varnish.
I’m curious about your dyeing technique as I have been less than successful...
I originally tried to dye this stock I’m currently working on, blue; using Keda liquid dye, with laquer thinner as a carrier. Trying to recreate that electric blue color seen on some of the HW stocks. One side of the rifle turned out great. Albeit not a true match for the shade I was going for. It highlighted the grain fantastically.
But on the other side there were spots that were impervious to the dye. It simply would not soak in. Practically bounces off! Then... on the pistol grip area, it soaked up so much dye that it turned dark, dark blue. So on the whole the project was a fail. With the amount of sanding required to remove the blue I’m hesitant to try again.
Here’s some pics of some test wood I tried out. I wish the stock took the dye half as well...
-
This is my SPA PR600W with the stock refinished using Tung Oil. All the other wood stocks I refinished were done using Tru-Oil. I lightly burned the wood on the checkering to give it some contract, thus the darker color. The rest is just Tung Oil over bare Beech wood.
-
This is my SPA PR600W with the stock refinished using Tung Oil. All the other wood stocks I refinished were done using Tru-Oil. I lightly burned the wood on the checkering to give it some contract, thus the darker color. The rest is just Tung Oil over bare Beech wood.
It looks great! How did you go about the burning?
-
I like tung oil. I mix a little stain in the first coat to vary colors.
-
I mostly use penetrating dyes made by Mohawk. For the most part, the dye is used as an undertone to achieve a certain color or look. The dye can be tricky to apply. Every time you wipe over the wood, it applies more color. Trying to get an even color everywhere is just technique and practice. You can thin the dye with lacquer thinner as you have done, but it creates a new challenge in that it can remove itself because of the thinner and make even color hard to accomplish. If you are comfortable using a spray gun, you can hang the stock and spray the dye. Go slowly spraying light coats until you have the shade you want. I have finished stocks with dye as the only form of color. Walnut is much easier to do this with because it already has a fair amount of color naturally. This BSA Martini was finished using just dye and catalyzed lacquer.
As for your attempt at dyeing a beech stock blue, I dyed my R9 beech stock pure green. I knew the Mohawk dye would have been extremely hard to work with so I got a water based dye made by general finishes. I wet the entire stock liberally until the stock wouldn’t take any more color. Then I wiped it down with a clean rag and removed as much as I could leaving an tone on the entire stock. Came out very interesting. Lacquer was used for the clear coat. I’m going to tell on myself here. I screwed this stock up!! I did not allow the green dye enough time to dry before I sprayed the lacquer. Because I ruched it, my finish cracked up badly after about 6 months and needs to be stripped :( . Been doing this for 30 plus years and still step in it from time to time. :P
-
Green R9
-
I’m working on this stock today, almost done. It’s from a Turkish over under. The wood is walnut and the two pieces are entirely different colors naturally. I used dye first and tri-clad solvent based stain over that but removed as much stain as I could. Customer wanted it very dark plus the stock was snapped in half at the wrist and the dark color helps hide the epoxy repair. The checkering gets the first coat of lacquer then gets masked off so finish doesn’t build in the checkering. When the gun needs one last coat, I thin my material, unmask the checkering and final coat everything. Checkering still feels sharp.
-
Youre a master of your craft. I’ll have to settle for finishes done by hand, as I’m not equipped for spraying...
-
Youre a master of your craft. I’ll have to settle for finishes done by hand, as I’m not equipped for spraying...
I’ve seen many woodwork pieces and gun stocks that were finished by hand and you would swear they were sprayed. Technique and dust free drying area are key. Build up enough finish that you can hand polish after it’s cured and and have a finish smooth as glass.
I like that stock Paul did. Another way to achieve that look it use penetrating dye in the checkering. Either mask off around the checkering or use a small artist brush and color inside the lines 8)
-
Just for the record... I'm not a fan of high gloss finishes on gunstocks. I'm more of a satin finish kinda guy. I could even do semi gloss.
-
This is my SPA PR600W with the stock refinished using Tung Oil. All the other wood stocks I refinished were done using Tru-Oil. I lightly burned the wood on the checkering to give it some contract, thus the darker color. The rest is just Tung Oil over bare Beech wood.
It looks great! How did you go about the burning?
I masked it off with aluminum tape like you use with A/C duct work, then lightly scorched the checkering with a hand held propane torch. You do have to be quick and keep your distance from the wood, or you could end up with a big ole lump of charcoal!!! 😜
-
I steered you wrong...
The wax I was referring to isn’t “furniture” wax, it’s Minwax Paste Finishing Wax.
This is a stock made from black walnut and has Watco brand Danish oil (cherry and natural) applied and then the paste wax applied over the top after the oil has cured for a few days. It has a low sheen and a very natural look to it.
-
Brett that stocki is gorgeous!! True craftsmanship right there. Seriously great work.
-
Thanks Tim. That was the last one I made. Still some areas that need to be refined but over all I’m happy with it. Here is the whole rifle...
-
Thanks Tim. That was the last one I made. Still some areas that need to be refined but over all I’m happy with it. Here is the whole rifle...
I really like the way this turned out, Nicely done!