GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: Wolfer on March 23, 2018, 01:21:06 AM
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They got these at Wally World for 59 bucks. Can,t hardly pass it up, part of my problem. Anyone have one and who are they made by. It says a product of Daisy but is it a Turkey gun or what. Mike
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looked it up on Pyramid Air, seems to be of Chinese origin, but has great reviews seems like the same mechanics as the Daisy 1101 ws that I have, nice shooting gun even w/o an adjustable trigger. For that price any break barrel is a bargain !
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James thanks for your reply, can,t to try one. It will make a good open site shop / truck gun. Can always clean up trigger a little and with use get better. Would imagine spring and seal should be able to be found. Mike
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Not being Hatsan , parts should be easy to get. The trigger on mine settled in ok just shooting 100 rounds or so, but can be polished if desired.
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I don,t know about you but I really get a kick out of fooling with these cheap guns. They can be diamonds in the rough. I will keep you in touch. Going to pick it up today. Mike
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I have a Win 1100ws. There's a trigger mod for the Win 1100/Daisy 1101 over in the Daisy gate. You cut and grind a bolt that goes under the rear stock screw. I haven't got around to trying it. I'm computer challenged when it comes to links. Maybe someone can link it for us.
The 1100/1101 are made in China. I have old pawn shop finds, Win 1000 and 800, that were made by Hatsan in Turkey. They look similar but are different. Between Turkey and China I read some where they were made in Brazil for awhile.
If I didn't already have the 1100ws I'd jump on that $59 deal.
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I searched , and searched most of the info refers to the hatsan made, but all and all a good polish and moly burnish on the contact surfaces. Think E_Z has the secrets hidden somewhere ;_
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=14544.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=14544.0)
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/index.php?topic=6757.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/index.php?topic=6757.0)
Was a nice trip through history though :)
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Well just got home with the 1100ssh. It's built pretty stuff. Cleaned barrel tightened screws and began shooting. I have several different pellets but the Winnies old style and new have gotten the nod. Trigger is not the best but not the worse either. I have a HW95 so I Know what a goodnight is. Boy trying to make the open sights work is rough. The old eyes aren't,t what they use to be. No big deal it needs some rounds dsl shot through it to break in so not to worried. Have any of you ever considered red dot sight on a springer. Would make it a little more user friendly as a shop gun and yard varmit getter. Thanks for all of the feed back. Mike
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For that trigger mod: go to the 'select a gate' window and click 'american /U.S. air gun gate' then click the Daisy gate. About the sixth or seventh thread from the top 'Daisy 1101ws'. It's in that thread with pic's. I'm going to look in the parts bin tomorrow for the right size bolt.
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Thanks Tim. Mike
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I have found these " https://www.pyramydair.com/product/air-arms-field-heavy-177-cal-4-52mm-10-34-grains-domed-500ct?p=713 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/air-arms-field-heavy-177-cal-4-52mm-10-34-grains-domed-500ct?p=713) " to shoot the best out of mine so far, I have a 3/4" spinner 35 yards out in a tree, and can hit it repeatedly. "After I mounted a scope that is, tried a red dot but it does not let the accuracy shine at distance.
They are on back order right now from PA, I'm awaiting their arrival.
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This is going to be kind of a project gun. I only paid 59 bucks for it and want to keep it as cheap as possible. My eyes just aren't,t going to work open sight wise, something at 63 I will have to accept. That's the reason For thinking a dot. This is going to be my pickup ,work,shop,yard beater gun. It will get rattle canned here soon, got to make her ugly quick. Mike
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If it would hold up, I think a small open reflex sight (not the enclosed tube type) would be fantastic at ranges under 50 yards. Quick acquisition, easier to see against varying backgrounds, and a nice low profile.
I've been using a cheap BSA model on a couple of CO2 guns that frequently comes up on sale at Cabelas for less than $50 (I think I paid around $30-40 for mine). There's a 5 minute dot and another couple settings with a smaller center dot and large circle or large "crosshairs". The single 5 min dot may be too large past 10-15 yards but as long as the extra "helpers" don't get in the way, the smaller dot might be ok.
I've seen similar models from various China Brands on Amazon for cheap that look like they could have been made in the same factory. I feel slightly better going with a company that might (hopefully?) have a higher standard of quality control and specs off the line in their contract with the factory.
Blue
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Make this:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-9JtMZDn/0/987f54de/L/i-9JtMZDn-L.jpg) (https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-Q9N2pc/i-9JtMZDn/A)
Put it here:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-XnvcPMQ/0/ced17a5c/L/i-XnvcPMQ-L.jpg) (https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-Q9N2pc/i-XnvcPMQ/A)
It adjusts the final sear engagement.
You'll likely end up with only about three threads and it seats way down in the bottom of the hole so that the stock screw can still be tightened fully.
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bhh, thanks guy!
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You're welcome. Let us know how it works out for you.
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Thanks also from Wolfer. Have been in the shop. Mike
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Thanks also from Wolfer. Have been in the shop. Mike
Happy to help.
Now that I've sorted the trigger, I turned my attention to the stock. I wanted to lose some weight and make if feel less club-like. I still need a few more coats of Tru-Oil before I call it done.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-fBHd5dz/0/ee71ac5d/L/i-fBHd5dz-L.jpg) (https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-Q9N2pc/i-fBHd5dz/A)
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Nice stock. Looks a lot more graceful, curvey, sexy, which ever word suits you.
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Can you believe we can,t get true oil anymore in California. What a great deal that is. Mike
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Can you believe we can,t get true oil anymore in California.
That's nuts. >:(
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Well picked up a Bariska red dot today at big five.35 bucks out the door and put it on the 1100ss. Kind of got it rough sighted in in the dark will put some through it tomorrow. We will see how it holds up and the accuracy. Really like the idea of the compact dot. Any feed back will always be welcome. Not trying to puss out but the eyes just can,t do the open sights justice anymore. Mike
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BHH how long is the screw. Mike
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Saw a couple of the $59 Win. 1100s at the Hinesville, Ga. Walmart yesterday.
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Ought to pick one up, as they are a good bargain. Working on my trigger but they are good shooting guns, not very hold sensitive for me at least. Mike
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I would have got one but I have a 1100w already.
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BHH how long is the screw. Mike
Hi Mike. It's a grind to fit thing. IIRC, I ended up with about 3/8" on the smooth part and about three threads on the top part. But I did this over a year ago, so I could be off.
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Seems to me if the rear stock bolt bottoms out against the new sear adjustment bolt just before it's tight a washer or two might fix it without having to remove and re-cut the new sear bolt.
I'm wondering if an old B3 or B2 rear stock bolt/screw might work. I got plenty of those.
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Well the trigger mod has the trigger to a more decent pull. Can,t tighten it any more as I didn't,make the screw head slot deep enough and have stripped the slot so I can,t tighten it any more, but much better pull. Going to put the pellets through it now and get it broken in. Stock is going to get rattle canned. Can,t stand black guns. Thanks for all of the feed back on this project. Let's hear about everyone else's guns. Mike
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I didn't have to make the sear adjustment screw. I have a bunch of little parts and screws, bolts, nuts and washers,etc. off air guns in old pellet tins. I found a tin with just set screws with out heads and found a short one with a hex hole in the end.(same size allen wrench to tighten scope ring top straps) Kind of like the set screw that hold the barrels for a Beeman RS2 dual cal. It fit perfect.
Took the 1100w out of the stock, cocked and loaded it, pointed it out the window of the man cave and screwed it in till the gun fired and back out one and a half turns and started experimenting from there.
Couple of times it wouldn't cock and a couple of times it fired when closing the barrel. Put it back in the stock with the stock screw in it did the same. So I took the stock screw out made a few adjustment and tried one or two lock washers under the stock screw.
In the end I think it's about 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 turns out with two lock washers under the stock screw. The washers fit perfect in the recessed hole for the stock screw. Did a safety check. bumped it on the floor some and slammed the barrel shut a couple of time to make sure it wouldn't fire. Cocked it and holding the barrel tight checked the trigger and safety. Safety and anti-bear trap held.
Got the trigger pull down from around 5.5 lbs to around 4lbs checking with a mechanical trigger pull scale. First stage is about a quarter inch and soft. Second stage breaks easy and clean. It's a lot better.
Today I'm going to re-zero the scope. When I put the scope back on I used tall see-thru rings and I'm going to see if I can use the open sight and the scope. The scope has Winchester brand on it. It's a copy of the TF 3-9x32AO scopes PA use to sale. I got the Winchester scopes off Amazon way back. At least it matches the name on the gun even though both were made in China.
I think the mod is going to check out to have been worth the trouble. I'll let you know. Later, Tim.
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Shot the Win. 1100w with the trigger mod. Much better. Gun shot good with open sights. Scope came off. I need to get some scope rings rounded on the bottom inside. Quite a hump between the scope grooves.
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I didn't have to make the sear adjustment screw. I have a bunch of little parts and screws, bolts, nuts and washers,etc. off air guns in old pellet tins. I found a tin with just set screws with out heads and found a short one with a hex hole in the end.(same size allen wrench to tighten scope ring top straps) Kind of like the set screw that hold the barrels for a Beeman RS2 dual cal. It fit perfect.
Great find!
I put mine back in the stock tonight. It feels much better.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-VvBrSpr/0/832dbb45/L/i-VvBrSpr-L.jpg) (https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-Q9N2pc/i-VvBrSpr/A)
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Well I went and did it. Chopped 4inches off the barrel rectowned and it shoots pretty darn good. A lot lighter and compact. Can clock it in tighter places. Have to figure out how to create trigger down more with the screwed up screw driver slot, any suggestions. Mike
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Have to figure out how to create trigger down more with the screwed up screw driver slot, any suggestions. Mike
Can you get it out? Maybe a reverse drill bit or an ez-out?
Then use a scope stop setscrew like lefteyeshot?
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I didn't have to make the sear adjustment screw. I have a bunch of little parts and screws, bolts, nuts and washers,etc. off air guns in old pellet tins. I found a tin with just set screws with out heads and found a short one with a hex hole in the end.(same size allen wrench to tighten scope ring top straps) Kind of like the set screw that hold the barrels for a Beeman RS2 dual cal. It fit perfect.
Great find!
I put mine back in the stock tonight. It feels much better.
I'm going to have to refinish mine that looks great. What did you do to the barrel block and cocking linkage. It' grey looking.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-VvBrSpr/0/832dbb45/L/i-VvBrSpr-L.jpg) (https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-Q9N2pc/i-VvBrSpr/A)
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I'm going to have to refinish mine that looks great. What did you do to the barrel block and cocking linkage. It' grey looking.
That's just the way the light makes it look. I didn't do anything to it.
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Looks great, sometimes things can get to pretty. Great job. Mike
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Are there any chopped springer stories on the forum from the past. Really are liking these little guns. Mike
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Thanks.
I've chopped springers down to 9". Seems to get harsh, gain noise, and lose velocity at that point. I like to stay around 14" now based on my experiments.
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Got rid of the home made trigger screw and picked up a metric set screw. Should have done this first and also a couple of lock washers of the appropriate size. Camo is next. Mike
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After I got the set screw adjusted right I squirted some blue loc-tite down in there in hopes it'll seep in and around the threads. And loc -tite the stock screw with the two lock washers under it.
Mighty refinish the stock and knock off the open sights. Got a couple of metal muzzle breaks might look good on it. One from PA and another from ARH.
I think it's worthy of a one piece off-set mount and a scope with some mag and AO and some mildots. Maybe some reticle lum for the heck of it. A Simmons 30mm.
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It was a bloody day today for the little carbine. 5 ground squirrels, 11starlings. Shooting the little Berman coated hollow points,cheap. Mike
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Make this:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-9JtMZDn/0/987f54de/L/i-9JtMZDn-L.jpg) (https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-Q9N2pc/i-9JtMZDn/A)
Put it here:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-XnvcPMQ/0/ced17a5c/L/i-XnvcPMQ-L.jpg) (https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-Q9N2pc/i-XnvcPMQ/A)
It adjusts the final sear engagement.
You'll likely end up with only about three threads and it seats way down in the bottom of the hole so that the stock screw can still be tightened fully.
Can this screw be bought at a hardware store?
What do I ask for at the hardware store?
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Earl, the bolt in the picture you show was fabricated from a bolt. The head cut off, the groove in the end cut with a hack saw and the threads machined off the other end.
It might be best to read all the thread and the original thread this one came from and see how different people did it.
I found a set screw that had a hex hole for an allen wrench in my air gun parts bin. It worked. but with the stock screw all the way in and against the set screw the gun wouldn't cock. This mod takes a lot of trail and error to get right. In the end I used a couple of lock washers to keep the stock screw from touching the new trigger adjustment screw.
Improvement was modest. 5 1/2 lbs. trigger pull down to 4. But now very short first stage and the trigger breaks clean no creep. much better. But not magic like a GRT trigger.
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Tim,
I remember going with your idea of the hex hole, came home from the hardware with a couple of different lengths. Found the one to do the job without cutting or grinding. Loctited in place and even room for the stock bolt.
( Course, I sold that Winnie off a couple of months ago.....)
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Tim,
I remember going with your idea of the hex hole, came home from the hardware with a couple of different lengths. Found the one to do the job without cutting or grinding. Loctited in place and even room for the stock bolt.
( Course, I sold that Winnie off a couple of months ago.....)
What was the length of set screw that you used?
Please make a guess if you do not remember. 9 or 10 or 11 or 12 or 13 mm
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I had picked up a couple of different lengths to try. The one left over is an 11, so the one I put in may have been a 10.
I placed a pellet in the chamber, cocked the gun( set it in the stock to help cock it) aiming into my trap I took the safety off and turned the screw inward slowly, until the gun went off. then backed it off a half turn. Mounted the stock making sure the stock screw fit.
Then I did the whole process over, using loctite on that set screw.
(dang, now I want another 1100!) Hope this helps!
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I had picked up a couple of different lengths to try. The one left over is an 11, so the one I put in may have been a 10.
I placed a pellet in the chamber, cocked the gun( set it in the stock to help cock it) aiming into my trap I took the safety off and turned the screw inward slowly, until the gun went off. then backed it off a half turn. Mounted the stock making sure the stock screw fit.
Then I did the whole process over, using loctite on that set screw.
(dang, now I want another 1100!) Hope this helps!
Good information, thanks a lot.
I will take the stock screw from the gun to match the diameter and threads but I needed a length.
Does this one look right?
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-6-mm-x-10-mm-Alloy-Socket-Set-Screw-2-per-Pack-813888/204274259 (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-6-mm-x-10-mm-Alloy-Socket-Set-Screw-2-per-Pack-813888/204274259)
Amazon has the Winchester 1100s for $29. That is where I got mine.
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Looks right... as I said I tried a couple of different lengths, pennies a piece out of the parts drawers in hardware store.
I frequent that a lot, for O rings as well. ;D
Good luck with it!
Amazon for $29??? Do you have a link?
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I posted about the Crazy Daisy (Winchester 1100s) on Amazon for $29 on the Bargain Gate. That is now gone/back-ordered at a higher price.
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=160790.msg155789513#msg155789513 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=160790.msg155789513#msg155789513)
I had good results on the $59 one from Walmart, so I didn't hesitate to order a second one for $29.
This rekindled my desire to explore inside the original $59 rifle. It was shooting well
>> https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=152549.msg155699551#msg155699551 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=152549.msg155699551#msg155699551)
but I felt the trigger could be made a little nicer. No need to go past the trigger for now since its had a solid thump (no twang) shot cycle from day one.
I rounded (fine file) and polished (1500 grit wet/dry) one 90 degree inside edge of the trigger blade (black) that contacts the first sear lever (silver). The factory "sharp" edge was scraping (creeping) along the sear lever. This contact point felt silky smooth after the rounding and polishing. Not a huge change by itself, but it helped. Arrow points to location in the image below.
Original trigger blade return spring wire was 0.045" diameter. A little too stiff IMHO. I made a new spring like this
>> https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=152549.msg155699230#msg155699230 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=152549.msg155699230#msg155699230)
using 0.029" Full Hard Temper Steel Spring Wire (Amazon). It reduced the (fake) first stage take-up force so I could easily feel a second stage wall (final sear contact to fire).
The lighter trigger blade spring dropped the resting tension on it and made the sloppy side-to-side play MUCH more noticeable. I made a small plastic washer ~0.025" thick out of HDPE from an old bleach jug and used it to remove the trigger blade side-play.
Then I created a sear-preload screw similar to this one.
>> https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=141265.msg1427060#msg1427060 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=141265.msg1427060#msg1427060)
Cut about 0.3" (~8mm) off the end of an M6 screw. Rounded and polished one end and cut a screwdriver slot in the other. Wrapped teflon tape around it to make it a snug fit. Adjusted this screw in to just "touch" the second sear lever. An equivalent M6x8mm socket head grub screw should work just fine.
Then I cocked the rifle action (not in the stock), loaded a pellet, secured the action, pointed muzzle into a safe pellet catch, and adjusted the screw to get what "looked" like about 0.030" overlap on the main sear and piston latch. The overlap without the screw adjustment looks to be about 0.060", which usually results in a longer second stage than I like. Once the action was returned to the stock, the ~0.030" overlap bump tested safe and reduced the second stage travel very close to what I like on my triggers.
All these changes combined made the trigger action feel much better. A long but very light fist stage hits a firm second stage wall. Trigger scale says second stage to fire averages 3 lbs. Minimal second stage travel is smooth and repeatable.
Shot about 100 pellets after the trigger mods. My groups didn't improve much, but the smooth predicable trigger now makes it easier to focus on proper hold and form.
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Thank you Michael!
I will try the M6x8mm socket head grub screw for sure on my $29 Winchester 1100s plus I have a Daisy 1101ws that I think has the same trigger.
Someone else suggested a 10 mm set screw so I will probably buy the 8 mm, 9 mm and 10 mm set screws and use the one that works the best.
I think someone suggested cocking the gun and then turning the set screw until the gun fired and then backing the set screw out 1/2 turn. Then bump testing the gun.
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You are welcome. I will be making the same mods to my $29 1100s trigger today and will post some photos of the parts & mods.
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Modified my Winchester 1100s triggers. Not perfect, but much improved.
Details became another wordy post with lots of photos that fit better on my WordPress site.
https://michaeljbernard.wordpress.com/
To anyone with a similar rifle and trigger, these mods can help. They can also be dangerous so please be careful, be safe.
Good Luck!
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Modified my Winchester 1100s triggers. Not perfect, but much improved.
Details became another wordy post with lots of photos that fit better on my WordPress site.
https://michaeljbernard.wordpress.com/
To anyone with a similar rifle and trigger, these mods can help. They can also be dangerous so please be careful, be safe.
Good Luck!
Nice job, and nice write up!!