GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: shorty on March 19, 2018, 05:34:59 PM
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I have been considering upgrading the 25 Mrod to a larger caliber to meet the .30 cal requirement for the new proposed law in Fl for deer hunting. I did a .357 conversion on the 22Mrod years back but low wall thickness on the .357 barrel was an issue.
I have a couple reasons for choosing .32 cal.
1) It appears to be a muzzle loader caliber.
2) Appears to have a nice selection of slugs available.
3) The barrel I am looking at is 25" long at .505" O/D.
4) Haven't heard of any 32 cal airguns except for one.
The barrel is a 1 and 18 twist and costs 120 bucks and slugs seem to go for around 40/50 bucks from 250 count up to 500 count.
https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/barrel-tools/barrel-liners/centerfire-barrel-liner-prod10976.aspx (https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/barrel-tools/barrel-liners/centerfire-barrel-liner-prod10976.aspx)
https://www.midwayusa.com/32-caliber-312-313/br?cid=7244 (https://www.midwayusa.com/32-caliber-312-313/br?cid=7244)
The power level I would be looking for would be around the 150fpe level
What's got me on the fence is, do you think this barrel has the correct twist rate for the slugs at 800fps to 900fps ?
The other reason for going slightly over the 30 cal conversion is that I would worry about if the 30 cal "pellet" /slug mic's out at .30 or slightly under. wouldn't want to get in any kind of trouble.
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I'm a gonna be watching this thread!
A .32 cal MRod would be really neat and since I'm starting to gather parts for a Gen 1 build?
Sounds like just the thing!
8)
With bullets? I'd think it could shoot faster then 900 FPS with little problem?
Cedric is shooting .172's at around 1000 FPS and doing kill shots at over 100 yards!
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I would imagine you’d be single loading the marauder. If I were looking for a conversion gun I’d be looking elsewhere only due to the short magazine length. I can’t wait for a manufacturer to offer something in a repeater with a bullet length magazine , .450” just isn’t cutting it .
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I would imagine you’d be single loading the marauder. If I were looking for a conversion gun I’d be looking elsewhere only due to the short magazine length. I can’t wait for a manufacturer to offer something in a repeater with a bullet length magazine , .450” just isn’t cutting it .
I'd have no problem with a single loader myself but you have a good point.
May need to talk to Nick about .32 Bullets.
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The plan would be to make it an 7/8 shot repeater from 3000psi to 2300psi unregulated running 145fpe to 165fpe using 85/100 grain slugs at 850 fps.
Modding the stock 25 cal mag or purchasing a 30 cal mag to open it up a couple thousand's.
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If one were to mod a 30 cal mag? A mold can be made to cast more.
I've been casting some Hatsan parts with great success!
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Shorty,
I’m no expert on the marauder so please enlighten me . What is the longest bullet that will fit the magazine modified or not ? It would be nice to know which repeater air rifle has the longest magazine . I’m actually looking for a repeater that will take a .675” long bullet. Maybe I’ll just start another thread looking for the answer.
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The BT65 .35 will take .6875 maybe a little less.
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The BT65 .35 will take .6875 maybe a little less.
Thanks Jeff, is that the same as the 30 cal? Sorry for hijacking
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I don't have the .30 so I don't know.
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My dial caliper is pretty shot but I got .45" on the Eujin 43.2 that fits with a tiny bit of slop but, that doesn't mean there is not room to pull in there still with some mods to it
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My dial caliper is pretty shot but I got .45" on the Eujin 43.2 that fits with a tiny bit of slop but, that doesn't mean there is not room to pull in there still with some mods to it
Thanks Shorty, I’m sure with a 3D printer and a bit of seat of the pants engineering a longer magazine could be made . How long are the bullets you intend to shoot ? None of the bullets listed have an OAL listed .
Here’s a 75 gr design from NOE . Pretty short .
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=31_383&products_id=2900&osCsid=dcnuoqd9aikganfapc2klf9bc7 (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=31_383&products_id=2900&osCsid=dcnuoqd9aikganfapc2klf9bc7)
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Could one groove the breach a little so a longer bullet would clear but still seat?
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I once had a .32 rimfire single shot break breach rifle, I passed it on to my cousin along with a .32 pistol. I could never find more rimfire ammo for it but I did have a few hundred rounds that came with the gun. Any how I did shoot 50 rounds out of it while I had it, quite the upgrade from .22 rimfire with impact and hole size for sure.
Back to the airgun topic :)
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Could one groove the breach a little so a longer bullet would clear but still seat?
Jeff , that’s exactly what I was thinking . I have an idea but it will be hard to execute . Fabrication of a cutting tool is needed. I may have just the thing .
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Like how the RAW I think is done with single load.
Just measured the space where the mag fits and it's .63" or so. This would still allow for a straight style 3 / 5 shot manual indexing magazine.
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Could one groove the breach a little so a longer bullet would clear but still seat?
Jeff , that’s exactly what I was thinking . I have an idea but it will be hard to execute . Fabrication of a cutting tool is needed. I may have just the thing .
Do tell us then.
;D
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I’ll just start a new thread . Don’t want to hijack Shorty’s as it doesn’t apply to the Marauder. I’ll be starting it soon .
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Start a thread in the Machine shop Gate.
I have a few ideas myself and would like to discuss this.
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Lots of .32 pistol bullets available, so a good choice for an MRod.... Length for single loading won't be a problem, you can machine out a .25 cal tray all the way to .357 to single load.... IIRC, Eric (stalwart) is doing .32 cal PCP conversions on the XS-60c....
Bob
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A year na half ago, I saw a gentleman at one of the ranges around here who had what looked like a Marauder stock n tube with a custom breech still in the raw with a much longer loading slot than normal and he was using a machined aluminum copy of a Marauder magazine that was thicker to fit the wider slot. Unfortunately he was not a friendly guy and some other people had evidently bothered him before I got there so did not talk to him, just looked from my bench. Somebody said his was in .323 and I saw that he was loading into the custom magazine what had to be at least 5/8 long cast bullets.
The point is that 'somebody' made a bigger marauder style magazine to hold longer bullets. Note that there was no clear plastic cover, it was all metal.
Doable with a CNC mini-mill.
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Ive made Mrods with .650 loading bays with single shot trays never a mag. Tim I’ll look threw my files and if I still have the STL files I can make you a magazine 3D printed
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Making one that manually indexes would be pretty easy, and if you make the diameter fit 6 or 8 shots you could make it by indexing a piece of bar-stock (aluminum or plastic) in a 5C collet with a hex or square collet holder (have to manually turn it 45 deg. to get 8 with the square holder).... Think about the way a Hatsan magazine is made, with holes for the bullets, and an O-ring groove around the outside to keep them from falling out.... If you used a .25 cal MRod receiver as a base, you have roughly 5/8" of length available between the barrel and the back of the notch.... I recently looked at machining the notch longer at the back, and the slots for the cocking / locking pin are right there, hardly any room to move the slot back, so watch for that....
The .30 cal converted mags. that Lloyd sells will accept a 0.450" long bullet, and you could cut a groove in the clear cover to allow a bit more length.... The holes are big enough to function with pieces of 5/16" rod inserted, and they still rattle around a bit.... so the 0.314-0.315" diameter of a .32 bullet should not be an issue.... You should be able to find bullets up to about 80 gr. that are short enough.... and if you modify the mags. probably a bit heavier.... If you only want 150 FPE, that is heavy enough.... Here is an 81 gr. (using WW's) from NOE that looks great, and the length is perfect at 0.443".... http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=31_271&products_id=1929 (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=31_271&products_id=1929)
(http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/N.O.E._Bullet_Moulds_315-85-RF_(GC)_Sketch.Jpg)
Assuming it weighs 82 gr. in pure lead, if you can drive that at 950 fps, that's 164 FPE.... or 148 FPE at 900..... Looks perfect to me....
Bob
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So the barrel twist rate mentioned would be ok?
1 and 18 twist
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So the barrel twist rate mentioned would be ok?
1 and 18 twist
am not doing the math just by gut
for the above NOE round more than plenty... in fact I think .32-20 WCF is 1:20 would be just about right...
for the lee Maxi 125g maybe a touch slow to just right..? https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/1200/1/LEE-32-MAXI-6C (https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/1200/1/LEE-32-MAXI-6C)
took a quick look...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.32-20_Winchester (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.32-20_Winchester)
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An 18" twist is plenty fast enough for any .32 cal bullet you could fit in an MRod mag, even a modded mag.... The maximum bullet length would depend on the shape of the bullet.... but as a guess, anything shorter than the 0.69" mag. well in the MRod receiver is probably OK....
Bob
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Sent a message to Redman about that barrel liner.
The Redman site states it's a 20" twist where Brownell's says 18" twist.
I also asked about getting one without the WCF chambering.
In other words? A blank so I'd not have to cut the chamber area off.
That would give me 25" to play with.
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Wife did the taxes on the very last day. I can't order the 32 cal barrel for another week or so.
Now I can't decide if I want the barrel on the 22 or the 25 cal synrod.
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Getting some specs on TJ's .32 barrels before I buy the Redman's.
;)
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Let me know what you find out. PM me the price too unless you can post it here.
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TJ's has several in a faster twist at $4.75 per inch.
1-16 and one with 1-14
Now I also see the .30 cal with a 1-26 designed by Bob.
would a slower twist be better for the .32?
Say 1-18 or 1-20?
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What about a 1 in 22 twist rate?
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I would imagine you’d be single loading the marauder. If I were looking for a conversion gun I’d be looking elsewhere only due to the short magazine length. I can’t wait for a manufacturer to offer something in a repeater with a bullet length magazine , .450” just isn’t cutting it .
There already is. ;) The new Winchester branded Evanix Big Bores. 8)
Knife
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Wish the States would look at FPE like they do in Germany. Rather than bore dia.
A .30 or .357 when shooting a pellet, isn't really impressive as far as fpe goes. And most of the guns out there just don't have all that much energy with switching to bullets.
Don't get me wrong. There are guns that can do it, but not that many.
On the other hand, a hot .257 such as what Dyotat builds, or his .338 is more than enough. (Even for the states requiring .40 or larger).
The .257 I have will push to over 200 fpe easily , with enough velocity to really open up a nice HP. And do it at over 100 yards. Something many of the 130-150 fpe .30+ ag's simply cannot do. And most of them don't have the accuracy for anything like a long range shot.
A typical big bore has the accuracy to shoot at the legal 8" kill shot. (Heart Lungs), requiring tracking after the shot. The .257 can easily put the bullet thru the neck bone just under the skull and drops them like a rock!
For Pig, between the ear and eye. Same, Same. Drops like a rock. DRT! ;)
Knife
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All I need is enuff to kill a can or bottle at 110 yards.
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;D
Me too. That and the occasional marauding Coon and Possum. GRRRRR!
Knife
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KnifeMaker,
That was a really interesting comment you made about fpe with the larger bore. In my mind at the time, I thought 150 fpe with a 90 grain slug at just under 900 fps would do a heck of alot of damage.
Now that you have me thinking about it, I looked around for big bore airguns in the .3 to .32 cal and yes they do punch into the 300 fpe making this a light build.
So now I am asking myself if this is a reasonable power level at 50 yards to take down a deer up to 125lbs and not tracking for an hour. At first I thought heck yeah that's plenty with the wound channel but, be it neck,heart, or lung would it do the trick.
Interesting read on some muzzle loading stuff:
http://www.namlhunt.com/mlsmallgame2.html (http://www.namlhunt.com/mlsmallgame2.html)
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Seeing the numbers people are getting with the JSAR Valves in a P-Rod?
What would one expect in a .32 M-Rod?
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I would expect it depends on the transfer port,barrel port, and exit port, although,,,, I have no idea how the flow is through the poppet/internals which may prohibit the potential power.
I know it was not talked about but this is a concern for flow.
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Yep. Now your goals are different from mine I believe.
I want as much power as I can make and shot count is not an issue.
I don't hunt so a heavy gun is not an issue as it will always be a bench rest shooter.
Accuracy to 100 yards beer can kill if I can get it is what I want.
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Best believe I want the accuracy. I also want to be able to purchase many different kinds of slugs easily available.
For me, accuracy trumps power. If it doesn't do 1/2 inch groups at 50 yards it get's taken off.