GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Hatsan Airguns => Topic started by: jlp920 on March 16, 2018, 08:21:38 PM
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Hey guys,
I have a beautiful Turkish walnut spring powered Striker 1000X in 25 Cal, and I’m lucky to hold 16” at 25 yards with about 300 pallets through it. I really wish I could take it squirrel hunting! It has all kinds of power, I can see no defects visible, I’ve cleaned it – you guys got any suggestions? It was a refurb I bought last fall from HatsanUSA
Thanks
JP
Vermont
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:o
16 inches at 25 yards!
Is that off a bench rest?
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It’s just all over the place.
I’ll get a good group with two or three shots, then the next one is 8” low and to the right. I’ll make a little adjustment and the next one misses the backstop entirely. This is resting on a window, with artillary hold, without artillary hold....doesn’t seem to matter (can you sense my frustration?). I really want to dial it in , it’s such a beauty, but I just feel like I’m wasting pellets.
I guess what I’m asking is-could this be a defective barrel or maybe the powerplant?
Maybe a tight or loose spot in the bore or inconsistent sealing with the piston-I have contacted Hatsan, waiting to hear back.
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I would Check the front of your barrel bore for a dings and dents. ( All Screws Tight ? ) I have a 25 Cal Edge/Striker Vortex Gas ram that I pulled the front plastic sight off of. I re-chamfered ( re-crowned ) the front of the barrel. The accuracy improved GREATLY shooting H&N 19.91gr. domed pellets. It was shooting about a 3 inch group at 35 yards and now it will shoot a 1 inch group or less at 35 yards. Best Wishes - Tom
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Jesse , are you shooting with scope or open sight ?
Is your rifle dieselling on and off ?
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I will check out the muzzle-I had started to remove the plastic sight then gave up. Tap it off with a piece of wood and a mallet? I assume it’s just pressed on. Thanks for that.
Re. Sights: I am shooting with open sights. I have not noticed any dieseling, though some shots are snappier than others, so that may be happening. I did some chronoing when I first got it and I think they were pretty consistent.
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Well, about a month ago, I had that same experience of inconsistant accuracy . I found out that it is due to the rear sight that have some side movement. Even though the screw on the rear side is tight, it still move a little. I took the rear sight out and inspected and realised that the hole with a small spring had become bigger to hold on to the Allen screw on the barrel. I used white tape ( for pvc tread use) to go round the Allen screw so that it fixed in the hole snugly. Make sure the spring in the rear sight is in line with the hole when you assembly it.
Try other brand of pellets too, before you do anything to the barrel. . If your rifle is still under warranty, sent it back.
Best of lucks!
Hope this help.
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Loose stock screws ?
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I will check out the muzzle-I had started to remove the plastic sight then gave up. Tap it off with a piece of wood and a mallet? I assume it’s just pressed on. Thanks for that.
Re. Sights: I am shooting with open sights. I have not noticed any dieseling, though some shots are snappier than others, so that may be happening. I did some chronoing when I first got it and I think they were pretty consistent.
The Plastic front Sight Assemblyt is really pressed on Tight. Just taping it with a piece of wood won't get it off. I boiled a pot of water then soaked the front end in the hot water for 20 minutes or so. After the soaking, I then tapped it off with a 1/2 inch Hard Wood Dowel and a Shot Filled - Soft Faced - Dead Blow Hammer. Best Wishes - Tom
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just for test purposes.....put a scope on it and test for groups.
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^^^ WHAT HE SAID ^^^
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Try a scope, but assuming your technique/hold/everything else is right:
What pellets are you using? These guns can be somewhat pellet picky, although a 16 inch group is most likely NOT the gun not liking your pellets. If you want to test for a "bad" barrel: Push a pellet (gently, by hand) from breech to muzzle with a cleaning rod, and note how much resistance you feel between the rifling and the pellet. I would guess that the pellet starts out pretty darned tight, then gets looser as you go, and ends up "dropping" the last third or so of the barrel length before hanging up at the muzzle. Next, push a pellet from muzzle back to breech. Also note whether the pellet is tight, loose, etc. these barrels are often (anymore) extra tight in the bore from breech to an inch or two past the breech block (likely poor machining/assembly?). Then they usually loosen up a bit, while still having the occaisional tight spot along the way to the muzzle. Then the drop...the drop is where the pellet is no longer engaging the rifling, and is just bouncing down the barrel like a musket ball. Anyway, if you find these conditions to be present, send that gun back. Fixable? Maybe...I've had some success lapping and polishing these barrels, but I don't recommend banking on it.
I had two Strikers in .25, both of which had "bad barrels," and grouped like shotguns regardless of pellet or hold. The first one showed some potential after lapping and polishing the bore, and a recrown, but went back for other manufacturing issues I couldn't fix. The second gun also started out not being able to hold a group on an 8 1/2 by 11 sheet of paper at 15 yards. That barrel was still loose in the last three inches of the bore even after lapping and polishing (I was considering just cutting the last three inches off). That one also went back (bad dove tail on top of bad accuracy). Hatsan replaced it with a 95 after much complaining (them and me). That gun (after cleaning and polishing the ____out of the bore, and a rebuild) shoots hot and accurate. Best of luck with whatever you decide.
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That gives me a lot to work with, thanks again.
I have had the gun since last October-I purchased a couple tins of pellets when I bought it and recently bought three more tins-that’s four different types total (I forget the brands, I’m away at the moment).
I got it shooting OK for awhile, but never great. I need to invest in a decent scope at some point, but I thought the open sights looked pretty good. I think they do wander though. I will run the jobs you suggest and see what I see. Thank you!
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Well, I ordered up a scope for starters.
I’ll let you know how she groups with that.
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I hope it works for you! I might also suggest shooting and grouping at 10 yards. See how tight you can get it, and take photos. Should you send it back, Hatsan is going to test at ten yards ONLY, and will likely claim "1/4 inch groups" as acceptable (by the way, shooting 1/4" groups while shooting what is effectively 1/4" slugs would probably be acceptable and likely doable, if they only shoot one-shot groups 😂). I would bet that 16" at 25 yards translates to 8-ish inches at ten. Those photos could be good ammo for a return.
While I'm thinking about it: check your barrel "lock-up" as well. There should be no wiggle or slop in the barrel when it's closed (up-down, side to side). Any significant wiggle could also cause accuracy problems. lastly, if you can access a Chrony, I suggest testing velocity. You may (likely) find it's shooting slow/erratic and has a bad seal. Any local paintball operation should have one. Best of luck!
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Thanks, will do. With the price I paid for it (I think it was $80 + $3 shipping !!?),
It almost doesn't matter to me–I could invest quite a bit of tweaking into it and still be ahead.
I'm working on an old break barrel pistol for a friend and will be ordering the lube pack from ARH soon.
I can see from the spring slot that this thing was well lubed on assembly, however. Plenty of moly or something on that spring.
-jp
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I just pushed two different pellets down the bore. Both measured .255 before slugging.
Both went down the barrel with no effort. Found my culprit.
I wonder if they'll just do a barrel swap with me? I'm happy to remove the barrel and send it down the road...
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Sorry, highly unlikely they'll send you a barrel. They'll want to see the gun and "fix it." You'll likely get another in the mail a week or two after you send them this one. Won't hurt to ask, but...
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Uh-huh. It’s also passed the 90 day window for refurb returns.
May be stuck with it. Anyone have experience with oversized bores in .25? ::)
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Little update for you guys.
I contacted HatsanUSA and they were responsive, offered to send an RMA if it should be necessary. However I have a couple questions. I am still a bit of a newbie, so I don’t actually know – should the bore of a break barrel be oversized like that? I assume the skirt obdurates in the bore under pressure.
Also, it seems like this gun is probably limited to lighter pellets, like the 19.19 grainers.
I’m not sure the heavies ( 27-30 gr.) are stabilizing. I actually shot a respectable group yesterday with the vortex 19.19 gr. pellets. Then the Benjamin pointed 28 grainers were all over the place.
I paid $95 for this gun (found the slip), and if that’s just how the .25 bores are, I would probably just get the same thing in exchange. So...a bit more shooting, a bit more patience.
Feedback still welcome!
-Jess
PS: I welcome any suggestions as to known oversized pellets, and/or ones that have worked for others that have this gun.
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hatsan uses there branded pellets when testing and i believe there H&N pellets...not really sure but there identical in the 19.91gr that i have shot and compared.
they will base there testing with the 19.91gr pellets. i have been down the same road as you but my gun was not usable and they credited me towards a different model.
if its shooting the 19.91's good then you should be happy. and your chrony results should also be close to 650fps with them.
good luck ;)
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I guess it depends on what YOU decide is "respectable." Any gun worth its chops (regardless of price) should be able to keep a group within a few inches (let's say in this case 4 inches maximum) at twenty yards REGARDLESS OF THE PELLET (excepting perhaps alloy pellets in a really hot-shooting gun). Frankly, 4 inches is laughable, but I'm keeping with trying to be realistic. My Mod 95 in .25 was my first spring powered Hatsan in .25 that would keep groups below 4 inches, and now is capable of sub 1 inch groups at twenty yards with pellets it likes (JSB, H&N), and opens up with those it doesn't like (Benjamin). Anyway, that 4 inch max group should shrink SIGNIFICANTLY as you find pellets that fit the bore better. Ultimately I always say sub one inch groups at thirty yards is acceptable. For a .25 I'm willing to lower my standards a bit considering the weight of the pellets (heavy), the "lower power" of the springer power plant (compared to a PCP), and the ranges I will realistically expect to shoot (the sum of the first two considerations). So what is your respectable group measuring? I suggest where there is doubt, there is NO doubt. Look at the pellets you pushed through. If they lack fairly deep and consistent rifling grooves cut into both the head and skirt, then that barrel is too darned big. Possible expansion aside, if there is no resistance felt when you pushed it through (from both ends, don't forget), there is a problem. Ultimately, as much as I wanted the Striker to work out for me, I ended up talking them into sending me a 95 after two critical fails. Best of luck!
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I really appreciate everyone’s feedback. I believe you’ve given me all the info I need to make a good decision with this one. I’ll let you know what ends up happening...tight groups, folks.
-jp
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Here’s what’s happening on the Striker front.
I have a letter out to Hatsan, no response yet.
I’m considering how I want to proceed, possibly trade up for a m135 if they’ll let me.
In the meantime, are there any pellets known to be oversized? I read that JSB Exact King Heavies fit that bill.
-Jesse
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Here’s what’s happening on the Striker front.
I have a letter out to Hatsan, no response yet.
I’m considering how I want to proceed, possibly trade up for a m135 if they’ll let me.
In the meantime, are there any pellets known to be oversized? I read that JSB Exact King Heavies fit that bill.
-Jesse
when my .25 edge was sent back, i asked them if they could apply the refund amount to another gun they had......well, they never replied back before my CC was refunded.
so i just went and bought another model they had.
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A refund would be fine with me.
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How is the barrel on it held into the breach block? No, it shouldn’t be that loose.
Crazy idea but.... if your really stuck with it and have nothing to loose, maybe use a Crosman soda straw barrel as a liner and sleeve it down to .22? Just an idea.
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Thanks for the suggestion.
Or maybe open it up to .30 ;-)
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Thanks for the suggestion.
Or maybe open it up to .30 ;-)
Sure! I just don't know of a liner that would work, neither for .25 or .30...
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Hatsan is not cutting me any slack, no help at all.
It was worth a shot. Now to track down some oversized pellets.
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Bummer.
An unusual statement on it’s way... to bad it wasn’t an Umarex or Crosman, then you could just order a barrel..
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So...has Hatsan actually told you they won't return/exchange your gun? Or is it just a matter of them not responding in what most people consider a "timely" manner? They are rarely prompt with "actual communication," preferring instead to rely on email, which is hit or miss at best with them. I'd keep plugging away at them. They did offer to send you an RMA, right? I'd take that and run with it. If their answer is absolutely "NO," then I might consider sending it in for repair. It'll cost you a few bucks, but you might get the gun back with a new barrel, and possibly shooting better? Otherwise, part that sucker out. Hatsan gets upwards of $30 for a wood stock, and they don't/won't sell barrels or trigger groups. You might be able to recoup your money spent?
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They sent an RMA, but also said the warranty was up so everything was on me.
I plan to try a couple more pellets and a scope-if groups still not so good I’ll sell it.
I’m going to stick with light pellets, 19.19 grain. If nothing else I think it stabilizes them better, and doesn’t really have the oomph for the heavies.
-jp
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I would suggest the opposite. My “bad barrels” grouped best with JSB 25.3(?) grainers and the heavy Eunjins. Faster rarely means more stable. The Eunjins were the tightest fit, and in spit of their weight, still hit the target pretty danged hard at twenty yards.
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Alright, thanks. I’ll take that into consideration.
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If you want? You can just turn it into a .22
I'll trade you a .22 assembly for the .25
Myself I never liked the Striker in a .25
Now in a .22? Great gun.
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As cool as the “biggest small bore” is in a springer, Jeff (Privateer) offering up a .22 barrel for your .25 is a sweet deal! I liked the idea of a .25 Striker, but in reality I agree in thinking that particular power plant is “better” suited to .22 and .177 (more accurate, longer range, and probably better overall for hunting). Not as cool, but more practical, in my opinion. I’d strongly consider taking that offer.
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Jeff, I will happily take you up on that. PM sent.
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Got it scoped and some better pellets.
Things are looking up.
The Hatsan 19.19 are a bit wider, they seem to fly straight.
Also got one of those Winchester/ Daisy scopes on sale.
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The H&N 19.19's are the best in my 135. They were also the best in the 125 Sniper .25 I had.
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The H&N 19.19's are the best in my 135. They were also the best in the 125 Sniper .25 I had.
Are the Hatsan branded 19.19 identical to the H&N branded ones?
I ask because the skirt on these is nice and wide, .255-.257” by my measurements.
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My understanding is that H&N makes the Vortex pellets. When Hatsan made their power and accuracy claims with the (first) Striker .25 I sent back, they told me to try Vortex pellets. I told them I used the H&Ns, which are the same, and called B-S on their claims they didn't argue.
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update: having success now with my new scope and <25 gr. pellets.
the skirts like to be wider–Hatsan 19.19 fit the bill.
H&N Spitzkugel at 24.87 gr. are getting av. 600 fps for just shy of 20 fpe.
I widen the skirts a bit more with a center punch and accuracy is good,
here's a target, that's about 15 shots at 25-30 yds. offhand with the Spitzkugel (pointed).
flyers are on me.