GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Vintage Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: n.h.schmidt on March 04, 2018, 11:22:20 AM
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I'm attempting a rebuild of a mid 70s Sheridan silver streak. Most of it is apart. I have the special tool the PA sells with the seal kit. I have removed the nut with the square hole in it. I have reversed the tool to thread on the the valve part. This should just pull out. It will not budge I have even put a bar in my bench vise to slide onto the tool on and pulled the tube body. No go so far. Would any of you who have done this have any suggestions ? I'm stumped so far. And I don't want to break anything.
Thanks
n.h.schmidt
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Keep trying, it will come out. Sometimes they are stuck pretty tight. You might try a some penetrating lube on the valve. I made this simple slide hammer to make the job easier.
(https://i.imgur.com/RLIFGdE.jpg)
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Hey that's really clever. I may have to give that a try. I do have Kroil I can put in there. Would a gentile heat like from a hair dryer do anything?
n.h.schmidt
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Can't hurt. Go for it.
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Yea it'll pull out. The lead oring is keeping it sealed in. Just keep pulling while your giving lateral play on the tool.
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the valve tools I make have a thread on for a wing nut which allows you to pull stubborn valve bodies easily
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Here are pics HoosierDaddy sent me of the valve puller he made. You epoxy the bolt heads to one of the washers and screw a coupling nut onto each of them. Then, after you screw the valve removal tool onto the valve, you drop the washer with the bolts down over the tool, then the other washer, then slip a phillips screwdriver into the hole above to hold it all in place (HoosierDaddy made a pin to use instead of the screwdriver), and slowly wrench the coupling nuts off the bolts, a little on one side an then on the other, and it quickly loosens the valve to where you can pull it out.
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Here is what I did...
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=123617.msg1204961#msg1204961 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=123617.msg1204961#msg1204961)
*Edit*
HA!
Randy beat me too it!
:D
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All great ideas. I'm going to try something today if I get the time. Ped Do you sell the tools? I do already have the one tha PA sells. Thanks for all the help with this. I get the feeling I may have to do the rebuilding more as time goes on.
Thanks
n.h.schmidt
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I do but I'm in the UK so postage would kill it I think
what I'd do is thread your tool
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Thanks for the reply. I do have one more question. Should the stock bolt come out before removal of the valve parts? Mine will almost come out with the valve still in the tube. What to do?
Thanks
n.h.schmidt
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The stock bolt needs to be out for you to remove the back of the end cap. If you are talking about what the stock screws threads into? Than no.
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????? IIRC, the back end cap is held in place with pins. I agree, the stock bolt that is just forward of the trigger does not have to be removed first.
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Ok I didn't call it right but you guys figured it out. Many thanks
n.h.schmidt
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Yup, if you were trying to remove that stock screw while the valve is still in place you won't quite be able to clear the very end of the valve in order to pull it out. Not a problem because that screw (bolt) does not have to be removed, period.
When I resealed one of my Sheridan's (the first and only one I've resealed) I had that bolt off because I was sending the pump tube/barrel off for re-soldering and I wanted it stripped of everything when I sent it.
After I got the valve installed I:
(1) felt a great deal of relief because I resealed a Sheridan myself without stripping the locking nut, and
(2) noticed I hadn't installed that stock bolt first
3) tried in vain to install the bolt without taking the valve back out
4) cursed a blue streak (pun intended)
5) took the valve back out, installed the stock bolt, and reinstalled the valve, successfully, again.
The second time putting the valve back in place went way faster because I now knew how it "felt" when starting that nut so I wasn't held back by fear.
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I'm a little late on this thread but ,anyway.... I have a recently acquired Benjamin 342 that had damage from previous owner attempting to remove valve . Threads were boogered on the valve body so my puller wouldnt work. The retainer nut also had gouges from a chisel or screw driver, but it came out ok after soaking with a little PB Blaster and the proper tool . After pondering a bit I simply decided to give gun few quick pumps hoping pressure would pop out the valve. It did !! I found the valve body in a beam pocket across my basement. Crude I know but last resort, and it worked.
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That's a great idea. Never would have thought of that. Just have to keep the end of the tube pointed in a good place, like a laundry basket filled with rags to catch the parts.
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I guess I am confused at what you all are calling the stock screw.
If it is the screw ahead of the trigger that holds the stock in place ... why would you attempt a reseal on a 'Dan with the wood stock on?
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I think he's talking about the bolt that the stock screw (the screw that holds the stock on) screws into. Come to think of it, the screw that holds the stock on screws into a long nut that is screwed onto a bolt that connects to the tube. It's that bolt that connects to the pump tube that he's talking about ( I believe).
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I have the valve out. Cleaned and replaced with the parts that came with the reseal kit. The lead ring was in rough condition so I used the split ring that came with the kit.How did you guys solve this problem. The face of the nut that pushes on the valve has a short ,steep taper. . This taper expands the split ring long before you can get everything in place to begin turning the tool. The expanded split ring then blocks the nut from getting close enough to start in the thread. Anyone have this happen and how did you get around this?
n.h.schmidt
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I had this problem when reassembling my Benjamin 312. I was going back in with a new lead washer in front of the nut. Could not get the nut started, ended up putting it back in with no washer at all between valve and nut. It's been working fine ever since.
Did you have a new rubber/plastic washer to put in front of the valve? If the old lead washer stayed in, as they usually do, you probably didn't need that either. Hope it all comes together for you.
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The seal in front of the valve was a fiber gasket instead of lead. I have to use the rubber O ring that came with the kit. I'm having a real problem in cleaning off the fiber gasket remains that is stuck hard to the inside seat. This is anything but easy to get done. The old gasket that is stuck to the inside face of the valve is at least easy to work on. I'm having to create special tools just to do ordinary work on this rifle.When I'm done all this will help greatly on the next one.
n.h.schmidt
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Well if it's a fiber gasket, it's not original. Someone else has been in there. This still doesn't mean the original lead gasket isn't stuck on the ledge inside the tube(the front lead oring). You can shine a light down there and you may not even notice a line between the ledge and the lead oring. However, my trick was with your roll pin punch, drop it on that ledge. If it doesn't sound like it hit metal(brass) it sounded soft. Your tapping a lead oring. You can compare the sound difference with the other ledge in the tube.
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You can even with a long pin, small screwdriver and push on that ledge. Won't take much effort and you will leave a impression on the lead.
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When I was resealing my 101, I made a tool out of cane to clean out the old valve gasket. I have a patch of the stuff in the alley. Selected a piece just the right diameter, cut it square and made serrations on the end.
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Timmy Mac said that the front gaskets were not lead, but synthetic. I don't know if that was in a p.m. to me or if I read it somewhere on this site. That was my experience, too. It's more like a very thin neoprene or something. Tapping on it would make a soft sound which might make you think you were tapping on lead.
Maybe the old Benjamins had lead seals fore and aft and that's what Rob is thinking of?
I had a bugger of a time getting my front seal out, too, and I was never comfortable that I had a real clean, smooth surface on that ledge so I used an o-ring that came with my seal kit for the front part of the valve, thinking it had enough softness and thickness to yield to any possible irregularities on the ledge surface. I re-used the old lead seal at the back of the valve because the new one that came with the seal kit seemed real stiff and unyielding, and it was hard to get the nut started with it. Not sure, but I think if you get a Mac1 kit he provides O-rings for the front AND back. that would be the easiest route for a first timer to get that nut started.
In the future I won't try to remove that front synthetic gasket. They are extremely thin, and so are the replacements. I'd probably just put a new thin gasket on top of the old one.
If your kit was like mine, it came with a new set of springs. The front (check valve) spring seemed to be identical in strength to the original but the new exhaust valve spring was longer and way stiffer. If that's the case with yours I'd stick with the original spring. Easier to compress when installing, and easier for the gun to dump all it's air.
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Odd but my Benji and Dan reseals seemed to be lead front and rearLead makes a dull "thunk" when tapped on with a long thin steel rod.
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I never made any other material either lead or rubber. No synthetic, no fiber, no cork. I've had asbestos, but that was a Crosman 100
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When I was resealing my 101, I made a tool out of cane to clean out the old valve gasket. I have a patch of the stuff in the alley. Selected a piece just the right diameter, cut it square and made serrations on the end.
pretty similar experience cleaning out a gasket from an early 101 valve.
i soaked the gasket in rem oil over night & it made scraping it out the next day much much easier.
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only found lead for the front seal and what I do is clean the seal ledge with a delrin rod machined to be a very good fit in the tube to keep it square
I then once happy all traces of previous seal or corrosion are gone use a bs014 90 grade oring to seal the exhaust body and machine a thin delrin washer for the nut to body but I have rebuilt them without the nut to body seal with no issues
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I don't know for sure if the front seal was fiber it could have been something else. I know it was red color. It was not lead but the rear seal was lead. I now the history of this Sheridan. It was mine in the 70s .I sold it to a friend who kept it for close to 38 years. Now I'm working on it. Nobody has been in it in all these years. It sat in a out building for many years in the summer heat. The pump cup was rock hard and had to be dug out in many pieces. It's all done now .Pumps up and holds air. I will check the speed soon. I know what it used to do way back when. 600fps with eight pumps and yellow box pellets. Will see how it will do now.
n.h.schmidt
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Glad you got it working again! Likely good for many more years of shooting.