GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => German AirGun Gate => Topic started by: TOM aka critter99 on June 10, 2011, 01:16:10 AM
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What are the options at this point? I think to try and get a Umarex repair its about $60 in shipping with no way to tell if they will fix or swap it out for another rifle or just refuse to cover it at all???
The rifle started life on a negative note when AOA said it would be a German barrel and then shipped a 12 land one.
I was doing some chrony strings to take it out Sunday for a real workout and wanted different data to plug into Chairgun for different pellets.
on 3rd shot string of ten the rail popped
I have never touched these screw head mounts as I read here they were peened over.....did somebody at AOA check them??? One head does look like it has been messed with.....
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Wow !!! never seen that before. Why 60 in shipping ?? Give Umarex a call and forward the pics on the gun, see what they say.
Also, just because it has 12 lands doesn't mean it's a bad/inaccurate gun. I can understand your frustration being told it's an all German gun only to find out it's a German gun w/ a Chinese barrel.....I would of returned it that day.
keep us informed
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Umarex warrenty has you paying shipping in both directions to them....
Dealer I bought from (AOA) qoute from them after I ended up with a 12 land....basically its yours talk to Umarex!!!!!
"We are not informed by anyone where the barrels are made. The 34 Pro's we have on special are German rifles made by Diana. Umarex USA did not sell them to us as Chinese-barreled models. In fact no specific mention to the barrels was ever made by them or Diana in the advertising. As far as our sales team knows, Diana makes their own barrels, and no mention of outsourced barrels has ever come from Diana or their US distributor. It could be a fact, or it could be an Internet rumor, but either way there is nothing to suggest that they are using anything other than their own barrels in the technical specifications provided by the companies involved in selling them. If this were proven as true, I would not be surprised. In this industry we see several products being passed off as non-Chinese when they clearly are sourced from China. The American companies are notorious for this type of marketing.....
If you are having any issues with the rifle, you can contact Umarex USA. If the barrel is not good, they will warranty it there in Arkansas. If the rifle prefers larger diameter pellets, and shoots them well, then I would suggest using the larger pellets. Any rifle whether air or powder cannot be forced to shoot a particular ammo well. It is always down to the barrel, and the shooter must find the ammo that the rifle shoots well rather than try to make a specific pellet perform. I know our warranties on the products we import and distribute do not force us to make a certain pellet perform. We just have to show that at least one pellet shoots within specification. "
Internet rumour??? This was in Jan 2011...check out the date on the Diana letter
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You bought the RWS 34 for about 190 right?? + 60 to ship = $250 (let me know if I'm off)
Used market RWS 34 $120 - $135 shipped
you decide
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You bought the RWS 34 for about 190 right?? + 60 to ship = $250 (let me know if I'm off)
Used market RWS 34 $120 - $135 shipped
you decide
The 34 pro was about 218.00 shipped new.
I am guessing about 30 bucks each way to Umarex and back but no promise they will cover it at all or that this 12 land barrel is any good over long distances.
I am going to send Umarex the same photos in the morning and see what they say after they see it...ideally a swap out not a repair would make me feel real good if its a 8 land one for sure...I just hate to sink more $$$ into an unproven 12 land
I guess the airgun guru in the sky is telling me to stay with PCPS???
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Chinese barrels on German guns. Wow. They learned their lesson. I wish manufacturers here would learn their lesson, instead of supplying hit-n-miss quality airguns.
Charles
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Please keep us updated what they say. I would send it back to them. Life time warranty is life time warranty. Most likely they will just send you another and hopefully a 8 land one. I got a pro myself just lube tuned and it is very accurate to 50 yards.
Good luck ;D
Dustin
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Yep and I would make that clear to them as well on the 8 land barrel! That is what you thought you were buying to begin with and not an outsourced barrel on a German gun. and maybe you'll get lucky! :P
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I understand your frustrations with the rail falling off, that's definitely a defect and shouldn't have happened. I would send it back and raise heck with Umarex about paying shipping both ways. When the RWS service center was in Closter NJ, I never paid shipping both ways, only one.
Now I'll be the Devil's advocate here... did you actually check the accuracy of the out sourced Chinese barrel prior to the rail falling off? It actually might shoot very well with the right pellet. After all, they've been putting Chinese barrels on all the BAM and Xisico guns for quite awhile now and many of them (as can be attested to by fellow forum members here) shoot quite accurately. Your gun might be very accurate, but I have a feeling you'll never give it an opportunity to prove itself. I am not defending Dianawerk for going to outsourced barrels and a dealer who may have promised a 8 land and delivered a 12 land.
I think you should return it to repair the rail and ask/demand that you get a 8 land barrel. If, for some reason they won't switch barrels, then you need to return, sell or trade that rifle. You will never be happy with it (even if it's the most accurate springer you own)and IMO you'll never give the rifle a fair shake because in the back of your mind you'll always think "Dang Diana screwed me with a #^$% Chinese barrel"
Not trying to be an ^&* or throw anyone under a bus.... I'm just saying.....
Nathan
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I personally think the barrel thing is bunk. Ever seen a Chinese crafts-master make a sword? Just ignore it and shoot your gun.
As for the rail coming off, I had the same situation with a CHINESE B28 (RWS 350 clone) I called Umerex ordered a 350 rail top and tapped the top of the gun a reattached the new rail to it. Shoots like a dream, much better than my German made RWS 34P. Flame all you like and it better be a real big bus if you want to throw me under one. (BIG GRIN)
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I have had good luck dealing with UMAREX and warranty repairs. They straightened the barrel on my RWS 34 and replaced a cracked cocking arm on a R.A.M. Shipping was on me to get the rifles there, they payed return shipping plus repair costs. Give them a call. As far as 8 land vs. 12, my 34 is a 12 and it is a tack driver. 5 shots one ragged hole 20m open sights. I would not trade my rifle for a 8 land rifle. (If it ain't broke don't fix it?) The Chinese are fully capable of producing good quality barrels. I also have an awesome B28 .22 MM tuned. Good Luck. Harlan
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Harlen did they let you send just the action with no stock??? I was thinking it would be alot cheaper than the original long box because of dimensional wieght upcharges.
Emailed them the pictures and such last night and asked about the action only option no reply as of yet .... I would be extemely happy if they just swapped it out...
Accuraccy well I have a T06 Classic when switching pellets the POI goes slightly up and down...the 12 land when switching pellets POI goes left right and up and down...12 land shoots harder. Short distances with the right pellet about equal
Sunday was supposed to be a day to compare the two at distance side by side in out of box configurations....
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Got an email back from Umarex guess they clear email at end of workday there. They will allow just sending in the action. It will save alot on shipping plus I am always leary of giving the shipping companies the chance to bust a wood stock. Once I round up a suitable box etc off it goes for Umarex to look at it. I am hoping they just swap it out (and I get an 8 land) and that turns it around quicker. I'll let you know what happens
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Tom, I sent the entire rifle both times. The airgunsmith at UMAREX "checked operations" on both rifles before shipping them back. (checking for other deficiencies?) Both rifles dieseled a little during the first few shots. I assumed that they were lubricated. I don't know how difficult it would be for them to do the same for your rifle w/o the stock. As far as emailing goes......... its good for pictures. I prefer to talk to someone directly. (on the phone) See if you can reach Ryan at their repair dept.. I have dealt with him twice, nice and professional. I called @12:00pm PST. I originally broke my rifle in with heavier pellets 15.9 gr. JSBs, they were the most accurate. (150-200 pellets) Now I use RWS superdomes, HP and the lighter JSBs with good results. The rifle is less pellet-fussy now. If I switch pellets, I will need to slightly adjust the sights again. ( could be R or L, up or down or both.) Irregardless all shots are touching if not one ragged hole. If they don't group, I know it was my mistake. Harlan
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Why not ask on the Dianawerk? :D :D :D
Tom, shame on you for bringing up the Chinese barrel can of worms. Search on the DWC and you might find that Umarex was offering to replace the barrels with German tubes. Believe Hector talked to them about this. You could kill two birds with one stone and then kill birds. BTW, how long have you had this gun? Seems like it will never be right, as I implied in your other thread. Once a gun is tainted like that, confidence, satisfaction, etc, goes out der window.
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Hey I never said The "C" word I said 12 land nothing I have seen says the "C" word just "outsourced? AOA brought up the "C" word not me....
I really have tried to give this rifle a chance....just like Hector and you suggested
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Maybe a little more shipping but I would ship the whole rifle like Harlan. You will more likely have a better chance of them shipping you a whole new unit. Just a thought.
As far a barrels I completely understand. If I want a c word barrel I would have bought one. My Pro is 8 land. I can do quarters at 50 yards. On the other hand my Reg. t05 34 .22 GRT tuned has 12 land and also shoots nice groups.
Dustin
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Maybe AOA should of made it right in the beginning. Told you they would send an 8 lan barrel model and you got a 12 lan model. ::)
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glad u said it not me ....inferences such as that can get you exiled in some places
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I hope they don't repair it and just slap another action in the stock....
Would be real happy if it was an 8 land
I will post when I hear something
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TOM:
I am proud on what you have done, many people complain about the "C" barrel but they don't do NOTHING
when J. Marshall and myself asked Diana in Germany point blank about these weird 12 land barrels it was Herr M. Seder that had to apologise and tell UMAREX to exchange them for the German 8 land ones
PROMISES, PROMISES were made but you tested their word and you took them UP!!!
it is either an 8 land German barrel or nothing with your exchange with UMAREX or Glenn and Herr Sedler will hear a mouthfull from the DWC
keep the fight until you prevail for all that have a sub-standart barrel in a Diana
Take Care
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I was trying to give it a chance to perform.....
Then the scope rail popped off. its been a citrus fruit since day one
Its at Umarex since last Thursday and the note in box said it never shot as well as my T06 Classic and I would prefer another rifle and that it should have an 8 land barrel...
their customer service person said in an email
"No. Your rifle will be evaluated within 3 business days (by Wednesday of next week). After it is evaluated a service tech will contact you within 24hrs after evaluation."
evaluate ??? whats there to evaluate it is falling to bits and pieces
If they repair it ....you can bet I will be writing to Diana with photos, timeline, and what each person said along the way....nothing seems to match the spirit of that letter Diana issued about the whole barrel situation
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I don't blame you Tom! I voiced my Opinion on having a Chinese barrel on my 34P as versus the 8 L&G German barrel on my 350,(Which is Dead on and all the FPE I want for her class) and I was told that I should just shoot it and enjoy it.I never ceases to amaze me how fast someone will say, you should be Happy with less than you thought you was getting.What's also strange is they don't have one,but regardless,,you should still accept it because they say so!
As Brother Gene said in my thread,,When you buy a German Gun,(Which may even have outsourced piston's and parts)the least you should have is a German Barrel,, and one that's the same color as the Compression chamber.
I have 2 Diana's and have swayed away from the gun mfg I prefer because of this very reason, and have slated my next purchase in the springer dept to be a HW 97K instead of a 470TH. I really don't Care anymore what one person thinks,,It's my money and it's my favorite Hobby/Addiction, and if I'm paying for German Quality,(Be it so what it is these days), well at least give me what I thought I was paying for!
Also,,those I look up to when it comes to my airguns seems to think along the same lines.To be Truthful as I always am,,,I'd buy a B26 and not think twice as Brother ED has taken just as many Bandit's with his Bam's as he has with his Diana,(Most likely way more) and I haven't seem him miss,and that's say's loads to me.
Anyway I hope they do the Right thing and give you a New T06 with all German parts,,as from what I've seen from Umarex,on my end,,Anna and Glenn are very Nice people as I had a Bad Piston and they went out of their way to fix me up.Sorry for long rant,(It's just been building awhile),But I'm just really tired of being told to be Happy with less than the Best Diana can do!I know things aren't Perfect in this ole world,,,But come on,,a 12 groove Chinese Barrel that looks,(if like mine) was dunked into red lead before bluing?
Best of Luck and Thanks,
Troy
P/S: and for what it's worth,,If my 34P had the same color Barrel (as my 350) and it's own compression tube,,well the 12 groove barrel wouldn't bother near as much as the accuracy and power aren't bad at all now, that I found the right pellet.Can you imagine how many Diana customers have been pushed away by this fiasco since it all started,,Too many I would think!
Anyway,Just one mans Honest Opinion.
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I was ready to accept the 12 land thing it seemed to be working out with the "right pellet".....Then the scope rail fell off....I hope the scope is still good it only fell a couple feet.....Mine is a Pro so the finish on barrel and breech does not show a mismatch...I like the matte finish it hold the oil well when you wipe it down...They should bring it in as a Compact in 22 cal though.
I am in on the 20 cal buy so must likey once it gets here theses two T05 and T06 are on the block they will never be as valued to me as my AA S200B ...but I do want one good shooting springer......I might run all four of my SCBA tanks out of air someday and want to shoot.
Obviously I will still try Diana I did buy the T06 just to compare them out of the box thats why its a .177
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Tom, nothing would make me happier than you getting back an 8-land barrel. I'm almost ready to swap my '05 barrel with yours, LOL! You know, there's nothing better than a juicy, red Beefsteak or Big Boy tomato, grown in your own back yard. Barrels make terrific tomato stakes.
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I grow Romas for making sauces ....will they be bigger if I use Diana tomato stakes???
bet UMAREX could furnish some for a reasonable price don't cha think?
I really wanted to see how the two did head to head out of the box.....that was the whole reason of buying the Classic T06...guess it was not meant to be
So ya still in agony??? The keg beer is not helping???
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If you use the Chinese barrels, the tomatoes will grow upside down. Betcha didn't know THAT. Tom, even if you do get back the original gun, a comparison of two 34's must factor in that every gun is unique. You can shoot two brand new 34's, consecutive s/n's, and I will bet one will "do better" than the other. Just the nature of the beasts.
No pain as of now. Thought it was moving along a couple days ago but only lasted about an hour. Getting some headaches, etc, which I think are from this thread.........did I just type that? Must be the meds......... Actually, from the FloMax. Side effects they don't tell you about. And some are downright weird, but I won't go into detail. Suffice it to say I will be glad when that prescription runs out.
Tom, if this 34 doesn't pan out when you receive it back from Umarex, I would cut my losses, sell it on the Yellow, etc, and not look back. There are too many nice guns out there waiting to be shot without being saddled to one you won't want to ride.
Guess I'll go have a night cap (or maybe not - don't want to wet the old bed). No keg beers for me, thanks. College was a looooong way back. Killing a few Newcastle Brown's. Hey, since you like dogs, did you know that Newcastle Fact #5 is "Ginna see a man about a dog" as in "heading off for a few at the pub"? Right up your alley.
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I was not looking to discriminate fine differences between the two but if there was with my limited skills one that shot say 4 inch groups at 30 yards and the one that shot at 2 inch groups.....It was beginning to look like from short distances with a pellet each liked that no significant difference between the two other than a huge difference in what pellets they would accept and that the 12 land shot consistantly 25-40 FPS higher with every pellet......
I just don't want them to experiment at installing a scope rail.....I don't have alot of confidence they could do it properly...I mean do you think they have the same fixtures and stuff to set hot rivets properly?? The factory missed on this one and they had the right tools :P
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Tom, I sent the entire rifle both times. The airgunsmith at UMAREX "checked operations" on both rifles before shipping them back. (checking for other deficiencies?) Both rifles dieseled a little during the first few shots. I assumed that they were lubricated. I don't know how difficult it would be for them to do the same for your rifle w/o the stock. As far as emailing goes......... its good for pictures. I prefer to talk to someone directly. (on the phone) See if you can reach Ryan at their repair dept.. I have dealt with him twice, nice and professional. I called @12:00pm PST. I originally broke my rifle in with heavier pellets 15.9 gr. JSBs, they were the most accurate. (150-200 pellets) Now I use RWS superdomes, HP and the lighter JSBs with good results. The rifle is less pellet-fussy now. If I switch pellets, I will need to slightly adjust the sights again. ( could be R or L, up or down or both.) Irregardless all shots are touching if not one ragged hole. If they don't group, I know it was my mistake. Harlan
How did you get them to pay return shipping?? They are trying to send it back and get me to pay more.
They also repaired the rail....I see a poor result comming my way they stripped the rifle did not deburr and crammed everything back inside....no new seal bet its cut to *(&^
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I own a 12 land model 34 that happens to shoot very well..... My brother on the other hand got two panthers in a row that were absolute junk....very cheap feeling and would not shoot for nothing.....guess it is a &^^& shoot...even with the new T-06 triggered units......
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just spoke with Umarex....sound like a lame repair to a lemon June 30 2011, 11:51 AM
All they did was tap the 3 holes and install screws....with red loctite....what about the peening over of the blind recoil pin holes??
This sure is not a way to build brand loyalty...they should have swapped it out for a new unit or at the least a new compression tube.
Sure does not seem to match the words of Diana CEO
"I appreciate your loyalty to our Diana products including those sold under the RWS brand in the U.S.A. I also understand that you have high expectations, which is the reason for our strict quality control. We stand behind each Diana Rifle and we want to exceed your expectations. If you have a rifle, which does not meet your performance expectations, please contact us or our selling partners and we will do our utmost to insure that you are completely satisfied.
Martin Zedler
Managing Director
DIANA
Mayer & Grammelspacher GmbH & Co.KG
Rastatt, March 2010"
Notice that statement "utmost to insure that you are completely satisfied." Yeah right am I satisfied??
Anybody have a shipping/mailing address for mailing him stuff??? I might just send this POS lemon directly to him wonder how much to ship a rifle to him? I at least want to write him directly with hardcopies and photos and a timeline and the actions taken in the spirit of his ""utmost to insure that you are completely satisfied."
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Tom, you can email Diana directly via their website. Might take a while, but they will respond.
FWIW, if the gun was never deburred and lubed in the first place, you cannot expect the factory service unit to do so. Remember, they are going by stock specs. Repairing the rail might also be acceptable IF they did a decent job. I don't know about the peened stop holes. Heck, are they using aluminum rails like Gamo these days? As to your barrel, I'm confused. I thought, per some posts on the DWC, that Hector or someone was getting UmarexUSA to replace the Chinese barrels if requested. What happened to that? I would ask this, directly, on the DWC, Tom, to clear it up. You might still have recourse there.
Let's not slam Diana too hard. I can tell you that, two service centers back, their repair shop was far and away a different group to deal with. Very knowledgeable techs with long experience working on Diana guns. And cheaper, too. This was then they were in NJ under Dynamite Nobel. The next facility was worthless. I haven't tried UmarexUSA but, having seen some of the results of their work (as posted on the 'net for 75 rebuilds, etc), I'll take my chances elsewhere in the private tuning sector.
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The rails are steel.....without the two blind scope stop holes being peened in place I just don't see it staying put.
First chance I get once it arrives I am going to shoot some 20 and 30 yard groups like I started out to....and compare it to my T06 Classic
If somebody comes up with a mailing address I just might mail it the CEO just to make a point that they are being penny wize at UMAREX but pound foolish for Diana's longterm health. Its easier and cheaper to keep a customer than spend the marketing money to attract a new customer.
I mean if his letter meant anything then UMAREX would not be charging a $35 range test the gun to check 12 land barrels for accuracy plus shipping in both directions...and they have raised that fee up $5 since Jan 2011
So to get a 12 land barrel checked at UMAREX 40 bucks shipping and 35 buck test fee thats $75 bucks on a $200 rifle .....does not seems much like anybody wants to satisfy a customer much does it to you???
I hope Hector sends me a mailing address for that CEO hardcopies make more impact than an email even better if they arrive attached to a citrus fruit...
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I have been keeping up with this thread and I'm with you Tom. This is BS. Its a 200 dollar rifle. I just don't see why they would just toss it in the corner and ship you a new one? A happy customer will tell some friends. A perturbed off customer with tell thousands. With the age of forums the last thing you want to do is have a unsatisfied customer. JMHO. Dustin
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Agreed! :P
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Tom:
Herr Martin Siedler
Mayer & Grammelspacher GmbH & Co.KG
Postfach 1452
76404 Rastatt, Germany
Contact him will FULL DOCUMANTATION on your problem and be Nice about it. He will solve your problem.
warren
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My 34 Pro returned today from the scope rail falling off
Umarex repair was they tapped out the three holes and installed slotted screws with Red Loctite
They were so sure this was a "good :D " repair they will warranty the repair for 6 months...if it falls off within 6 months they will pay the next $40 bucks in shipping charges....thanx why not just replace the compression tube with a new one?? LOL
What you all think thumbs up or down on that repair???
Right now scope Loctite is drying
I put the large muzzle brake back on and am using Loctite 290 wicking to anchor it to barrel..anybody else tried that??
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6 months is nothing for a warranty. So they are saying it's good for 6 months but after that it's on you? I have owned guns since I was 16 years old and they are still in one piece and I am 48 now. I would use that info Warren gave you and write a letter to RWS/Diana that the repairs were unacceptable by ANY standard unless accompanied by a lifetime warranty. Makes me like my RWS 34P even less than I did before. They should have chucked that gun in the bin for junk and sent you a new fully inspected rifle.
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What you all think thumbs up or down on that repair???
>:( :'( ??? ::) :o :( >:( >:(
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When are companies gonna learn that the Chinese only make &^^&?
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The Rifle warranty is still lifetime IF I do not tune it...what they warranted is if their repair fails within 6 months they will pay the shipping to change it out
Lets face it on a $200 rifle a warranty that costs you $40 each time you use it is INEFFECTUAL
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For what it's worth....
IF you paid for it with a credit card, you can call them and tell them the problems you're having, and they can retract the payment to the original vendor. It's a "despute" issue.
I've had to do this and believe me, you'll be surprised how the vendor can "change their tune" and really hustle up to settle the issue to your satisfaction.
Worst that happens is you keep the item...and they credit your C.C. account.
You shouldn't have to pay shipping both ways since you paid for a working airgun.
Hope this helps.