GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: Nvreloader on January 14, 2018, 08:52:05 PM
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Guys
Can we discuss building a reg tester?
I have the materials/items for building one, plus a complete machine shop,
lathe/mill etc.
Have the following equip/materials,
1. A 2" dia x 6" long pc of 7075 alum round stock for building one,
2. A 3000 psi gage accurate to 1/2% for full scale valves, 20 psi steps,
36" 6000 psi braided hose, set up with 6000 psi pin valves before and after the gage,
to keep from shock loading the gage during pressure run up and provide for bleed off etc.
The gage set attaches to a off/on valve (which fits the drop block of the 79), via a Foster quick disconnect fitting,
when I screw in a 88/90grm prefilled cyl, the gage will read 850-110psi (depending on the temp),
and I can read the psi during the shooting/testing involved etc.
I have a (OEM) new 3000 psi Ninja bottle/SHP reg set to 1100 psi (set point) I was told,
that I want to test, to make sure I am safe for the QB etc.
I have hand pumped this tank to 1000 psi and it's holding air etc.
Just how do I build this, is the question?
In the proper steps, please. ;)
Step 1, Drill/tap the alum cylinder to take the reg?
Step 2, ??
I have researched/read ALL the posts in the Machine shop/talk section/area, and NO info was found. :(
I'll ask the dumb questions, later on........ ::)
ps,
If you don't want to divulge the info on the forum, for safety or other reasons etc,
I would greatly appreciate a PM.
Tia,
Don
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MAybe I'm too simple minded....but it works, and agrees with the in-line gauged on/off gauges (although those little gauges are hard to read with great accuracy).
Just threaded in a good gauge (think it was from an old-old FX pump) to an old paintball tank fitting.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/25%20hatsan%2044PA/5d47ee22-7b16-4ba2-8f34-50c3af095845.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/25%20hatsan%2044PA/5d47ee22-7b16-4ba2-8f34-50c3af095845.jpg.html)
Was worried about it not having enough volume, but it seems to read true.
But I don't do a lot of bottle checks.....it doesn't have a bleed feature, so getting it back off (even once you let the pin valve on the tank close) isn't finger-spin easy. If I had a spare bleeder type ASA fitting, I'd have used that to make removal easier.
So, yesterday I checked a tank rated at 1200psi with the outfit shown. Read about 1/3 between 80 and 90BAR...so call it 83BAR...or 1200psi.
Hooked the same tank up to a QB79's gauged on/off and got this (which is about 1180 ish PSI on the dinky little gauge).
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/AR2078/fd95ac98-2e4c-4003-a341-2c9a610861d7.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/AR2078/fd95ac98-2e4c-4003-a341-2c9a610861d7.jpg.html)
Neither of the gaugues have to be right. One is old, the other cheap and hard to read....likely, if I had a 3rd gauge it would read something that didn't agree with either of them.
Checking an "850 psi" tank, found it read right at 60BAR...so maybe an 870-5 psi out-put? (on the same brass on/off, was showing just a needle's width under the 9oo mark).
But for me, getting readings within 1 or 2 BAR is "close enough".
If you yearly want to get all exacting, would certainly invest in a really good gauge....most of the paintball type "mini-gauges" are pretty coarse.
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RS
Thanks for the info,
This gage is a very ACCURATE = read expensive one,
with a 5" face, Brand name of Perma-Cal, model 111FIB14A03,
which reads 1/2% of 1% for the full scale of 3000 psi, 20 psi divisons.
I have 36", 6000 psi braided hose, with a Foster quick fill attachment, (to attaches to the off/on valve for 79 drop block),
then there is a 6000 psi pin valve before the gage, to open/close as needed, (to keep from shock loading the gage),
during pressuring up, when attaching a Co2 cylinder/Hpa tank when attached to the off/on valve in the drop block etc.
After the gage, there is a short Hpa braided line, that ends in the second 6000 psi pin valve for bleed off of the entire set up etc.
I think, I have this set up built correctly...........
It was built, so I can shoot/test pellets from the bench, and read the psi levels, without disturbing the gun,
except for switching the fuel source.
I am after instructions on how to build a reg tester, to make sure it's set for the proper psi, before I attach it to the 79 etc,
I am finding pieces and parts out, but not the complete info, as these instructions are as scarce as hens teeth. LOL
Thank you,
Don
ps, The length of those items is .530", .250" full dia shank length. ;)
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Don, you can make one like Robert's using this ASA adapter which allows you to bleed the pressure when you back off the hand screw.
https://www.ebay.com/i/282806123268?rt=nc (https://www.ebay.com/i/282806123268?rt=nc)
I made mine before I knew of this (made my own bleed screw) but since I am a hand pumper, I made a very small reservoir to make the process quicker.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=73635 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=73635)
That's the easiest way to test paintball type regulators. Testing an in-tube regulator will invariably require some custom fabrication but it sounds like you are up for it if the need arises.
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Here's my reg tester to test Ninja bottles. Gage came from Amazon - 0 to 5000 psi oil filled with 1 to 3% error. It's basically dual fill adaptor with a removable gage. Works really well.
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Yeah...I have a couple of the bleeding (CP) ASA's...but in other uses that I don't want to take apart. I just had that stuff I the parts boxes, so used it.
In my case, I'm likely to need it about every 2 years.
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I built and sold a few of these.
(https://s26.postimg.org/z3uhuj5eh/Reg_Test.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://s26.postimg.org/8wtaykn4p/Reg_Test2.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
This is my personal one.
(https://s26.postimg.org/mu3q7s1m1/20180114_222020.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/nwdwqbkf9/)
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Hajimoto did this already. Look here for parts-I built one-very easy and quick to do. Just add a little teflon tape.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYKJ60M6b08&t=459s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYKJ60M6b08&t=459s)
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I really thought that video that Hajimoto did pretty much covered everything, it shows how to adjust the reg to where you want it too.
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If you want a good gauge go to EdgunWest and look at their electronic gauge. Accurate to within 1 Bar. Reads in Bars or Lbs. I just bought one for $90 plus freight and that is a bargain for a gauge of that quality. It has 1/8"-28 BPPT male threads so you may have to adapt. It does many other things also. Regards, Tom
https://www.edgunwest.com/store/p89/EDgun__EDMU_%28Electronic_gauge%29.html (https://www.edgunwest.com/store/p89/EDgun__EDMU_%28Electronic_gauge%29.html)
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IMO, a couple of key points, often overlooked....
1. Make sure you have a good bleed valve on the output side of the reg.... you need to bleed off the air before disassembly....
2. Make your reservoir that you screw the regulator into as small as possible.... there is no need for a large one, it just wastes air.... Mine is a 37/64" hole drilled into a piece of bar stock just long enough to thread 5/8"-18 NF to enough depth to accept the regulator threads.... with an O-ring recess on top....
Ricky's is about perfect, IMO....
Bob
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I built and sold a few of these.
(https://s26.postimg.org/z3uhuj5eh/Reg_Test.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://s26.postimg.org/8wtaykn4p/Reg_Test2.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
This is my personal one.
(https://s26.postimg.org/mu3q7s1m1/20180114_222020.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/nwdwqbkf9/)
How much would one like your personal one run me if you still make them for sale? PM me price if you prefer. Thanks.
Peter
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Thanks Guys,
I think I have the concept down now,
Now here comes the dumb questions, you have been for warned,
Lets say, You hand pump a Hpa tank to 2000 or 3000 psi, per the gage readings,
I would go by the my most accurate/best gage possible and then compare to the tank gage etc,
so I know the difference, I don't trust those small cheap gages.
How can you tell if/when you come off the reg set point of 1100psi ?
If I knew this answer, I wouldn't be asking these dumb questions, Sorry,
Tia,
Don
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"Coming off the reg" is just a phrase that means the pressure in the reservoir is no longer high enough to maintain a consistent velocity.
If the hammer strike is adjusted correctly, the velocity with gradually taper down as the pressure in the bottle falls below the regulator's setpoint. The pressure at which the velocity falls by a distinguishable amount will actually be somewhat lower than the regulator's setpoint. For example, you might have a regulator set for 1300psi and continue to get consistent shots until the pressure falls below 1100psi.
However if there's too little hammer strike, you'll instead see the velocity bump up as the pressure falls below the setpoint, and then it will eventually fall back down if you continue to shoot the pressure down.
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good stuff to learn on this thread.
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I also seen a thread about making your own pressure block to test these regulators with, that would be the way I'd like doing it if I was going to build a reg testerl
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Jason
Thank you,
So, I understand your info correctly, (you enablers often speak over my head) LOL,
as an example, providing everything is running/setup properly with the gun etc.
Psi level is started at 2000 psi, (reg set point is 1100 psi)
Let say, the shot string is running 800 to 850 fps, for what ever amount of shots,
and the the fps drop down to 700 fps, at this point then, the reg has come off the set point correct,
at around or the 700 fps reading?
Tia,
Don
"Coming off the reg" is just a phrase that means the pressure in the reservoir is no longer high enough to maintain a consistent velocity.
If the hammer strike is adjusted correctly, the velocity with gradually taper down as the pressure in the bottle falls below the regulator's setpoint. The pressure at which the velocity falls by a distinguishable amount will actually be somewhat lower than the regulator's setpoint. For example, you might have a regulator set for 1300psi and continue to get consistent shots until the pressure falls below 1100psi.
However if there's too little hammer strike, you'll instead see the velocity bump up as the pressure falls below the setpoint, and then it will eventually fall back down if you continue to shoot the pressure down.
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Just a thought, Huma sells one but I don't know if Trenier Outdoors sells em but the have one to set the Humas for you. Huma is 105 pounds what ever that is.
Bob
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Thanks Guys,
My set up is, a 36", 6000 psi braided hose, with a Foster quick fill attachment, (which attaches to the off/on valve in 79 drop block),
then there is a 6000 psi pin valve just before the gage, to open/close as needed, (to keep from shock loading the gage),
during pressuring up, when attaching a Co2 cylinder/Hpa tank when attached to the off/on valve in the drop block etc.
After the gage, there is a second 6000 psi pin valve for bleed off of the entire set up etc.
I think, I have this set up built correctly...........
This was built so I can shoot/test pellets from the bench, and read the psi levels, without disturbing the gun,
except for switching the fuel source.
Question,
Would the total length from the off/on valve, to end of last pin valve, about 44" total length of this hose/gage,
have a big difference when shooting/testing, other than the total volume of the gage set up?
I don't know the total internal volume of this hose/gage set up etc,
but, I think psi is psi, regardless of the length it is contained in?
Tia,
Don
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May be about 10CC total.
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The extra volume won't matter in a regulator tester, other than you will have to use more air to fill it.... However, if you are using gauges connected to long, large diameter hoses to take pressure readings on a gun where you are trying to calculate the air usage (eg. to figure out the efficiency).... then you must use the total volume, not just that inside the gun....
Bob
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Bob
Thank you for that info,
About the only way to get a rough figures for total air volume of my hose/test set up,
is to measure the hole diameters, lengths of the fittings, (standard braided 6000 psi hoses, used for air rifles),
which will be smaller than the inside of the hose etc.
And I should get the total air volume for the pin valves etc,
for total length of the test rig etc, as I plan on using the test set up for figuring out air usage etc.
I sure don't want to cut these hose, to figure out the volume areas,
unless you have a better way, then I am all ears........
You enablers are way over my head, most of the time, using $50 words on a $5 guy. ;)
If you get my drift...... ;D
Tia,
Don
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This is a suggestion for the hoses only. Fill them with water, then empty the water into something to measure it with (i.e. medicine cup ones that come with children's cough syrup). Do not get any water into anything else. Make sure to dry hoses afterwards.
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PCP fans react to any hint of water like a vampire does to garlic/crosses; they just "hiss" and turn away. Doesn't seem to really matter if the wet parts are 100% dry before being put back in use or not.
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Yea I know that's why I said hoses only. I used this method when I built my latest rifle to backup the dimensional numbers just to make sure my math was correct.
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A simple method for those with compressors is to connect the output of your tank to the line coming from the compressor, open the tank valve and it will pressurize the compressor hose to the compressor gauge and show the tank output. Don't have to buy anything extra except maybe a male to male foster fitting. Works for both of my 68 ci tanks.
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Do use water often, it's 1cc = 1gram is mighty handy for figuring out volume. NO fears of water so long as the parts (including air tubes) are dry when you button everything back up again. But other folks just freak out at the idea.
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Thanks Guys
I need to tear down and do the measurements, and every thing will be measured, except the Hpa gage,
and completely dried before use. ;)
Now, all I need is the formulas to convert all the info,
still searching this site, but very little useful info found so far.
Tia,
Don
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I finally received all the parts I needed to assemble a reg tester. Well, all three parts... It's pretty simple, but it works... I was able to set up two 13ci bottle to 1250 psi and one 23ci bottle to 1275 for my Gauntlet. All 3 regulators are made by Ninja, and every one of them took a different number/sizes of shims to achieve the same relative output pressure... I got all the parts from AliExpress, total investment was less than $20. The wait for the parts to arrive was the most trying part of the whole process! :P
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Thanks Paul
Sharp looking Reg tester,
I am rethinking mine............attempting to make the gage work in 2 jobs, with reduced hosing.
I have a couple of regs to test and set also, having a hard finding the thin shims.
I really like your photo,
"Knock, Knock, Anyone home, I need to borrow a cup of Honey". 8)
Tia,
Don
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Thanks Paul
Sharp looking Reg tester,
I am rethinking mine............attempting to make the gage work in 2 jobs, with reduced hosing.
I have a couple of regs to test and set also, having a hard finding the thin shims.
I really like your photo,
"Knock, Knock, Anyone home, I need to borrow a cup of Honey". 8)
Tia,
Don
Thanks Don, I really like the gauge, it wasn't expensive, but I find it very easy to read, which is exactly what I was hoping it would do. I have one more regulator to set up. It's a .5L tank that I'm going to set at 2000 psi output. I have a remote fill setup arriving today and I'm going to try connecting it to the fill port on my Maximus to see if it will give me a better shot count. The max fill on the Maximus is 2000 psi, so I'm hoping the larger tank will just act like an extension of the installed air tube.
I ended up ordering some shims from Zorro.com. It was recommended by another member. They offer some sample packs that have shims sized from .001 - .125 in varying thicknesses. The are $4 and change per pack, with 19 shims per pack (I believe it's one shim per size). I ordered 5 packs along with a couple packs of Bellville washers. If you sign up for their newsletter, you get a 15% off code for your first order. Shipping is a flat rate $5.00, so be sure you order everything you need on one order to maximize the savings! They also participate in the Ebates Cash back, so if you are an Ebates member, there's some additional saving as well! If you aren't already an Ebates member, you can join for free and get $10 back the first time you use Ebates to make a purchase. You can check it out and sign up here if interested:
https://www.ebates.com/r/PTARNU?eeid=28187 (https://www.ebates.com/r/PTARNU?eeid=28187)
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Thanks Paul
I have 3 pks in the cart along with the other washers of different sizes for testing. ;)
Tia,
Don