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All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: Trigger_Finger on December 30, 2017, 11:58:25 AM

Title: Cherry Red Hammer
Post by: Trigger_Finger on December 30, 2017, 11:58:25 AM
Will heating the Marauder hammer to Cherry Red make it soft enough to drill holes to lighten it? Has this been done before? Or it has been tried with no success?
Title: Re: Cherry Red Hammer
Post by: Dairyboy on December 30, 2017, 12:01:17 PM
Ive never done it but I say go for it! Worst case it doesn't work and you just buy an MDS hammer to replace it. I have received a stock drilled hammer before that had holes everywhere but I never did use it just came with a used gun I bought
Title: Re: Cherry Red Hammer
Post by: Trigger_Finger on December 30, 2017, 12:17:20 PM
Dillon, that's a good plan. I'm waiting for delivery of the TSS.i ran out of patience to collect parts for the DIY SSG.
Title: Re: Cherry Red Hammer
Post by: KnifeMaker on December 30, 2017, 02:15:35 PM
Well, it can work IF you have a way to let it cool slowly. Very slowly. It's called annealing.

I use carbide endmills to drill the hammers at high speed on the mill. cuts like butter this way. ;)

Knife
Title: Re: Cherry Red Hammer
Post by: Trigger_Finger on December 30, 2017, 03:18:18 PM
Knife, how do you suggest letting it cool slowly?  Like in an oven slowly lowering the temp? I read also about dry sand/gravel? It might pop like popcorn.
Title: Re: Cherry Red Hammer
Post by: KnifeMaker on December 30, 2017, 08:30:43 PM
Knife, how do you suggest letting it cool slowly?  Like in an oven slowly lowering the temp? I read also about dry sand/gravel? It might pop like popcorn.

Best is an ash bead.  Or cover is with ash and coals, and let it cool over night. I use my heat treating oven lowering 200 det every hour.

This air hardening steel technique. If the hammer is oil hardening, simply heat to cherry as you say, (Apx. 1475 deg. ) and instantly put into a stove, (Oven at 500F and let it soak for an hour, and then turn off the oven, but do not remove until room temp is reached.

You can heat to cherry and simply let it air cool, but this can cause internal stress that end up causing a crack in use.   (Hammers do take a lot of abuse over a long time.  ;)

Knife
Title: Re: Cherry Red Hammer
Post by: bandg on December 30, 2017, 09:19:04 PM
If this is done, would you need to heat and quench it after drilling to keep it from being too soft and possibly deforming?
Title: Re: Cherry Red Hammer
Post by: mann on December 30, 2017, 09:22:48 PM
Take the striker out and just heat the hammer . I have done this to the disco hammer
Title: Re: Cherry Red Hammer
Post by: rsterne on December 30, 2017, 10:57:34 PM
Disco hammers are case hardened.... I don't know how successful annealing is with case hardening?....

Bob
Title: Re: Cherry Red Hammer
Post by: mann on December 31, 2017, 01:42:43 AM
I couldn't drill the hammer until heated it and let it cool slowly which I heated cooled 2 times then I could drill it . I guess I didn't realize they were different as far as how they were hardened
Title: Re: Cherry Red Hammer
Post by: FuzzyGrub on December 31, 2017, 09:14:00 AM
Post back with your results.  I may be doing the same to a 103g bulldog hammer, which doesn't have a striker, just a built in nose.
Title: Re: Cherry Red Hammer
Post by: pecor on December 31, 2017, 02:52:28 PM
Disco hammers are case hardened.... I don't know how successful annealing is with case hardening?....

Bob
                                                                                                                                                                                       
                                         Very well I heated mine up with mapp gas let it cool on it's own just sitting,  And drilled it just fine. wasn't much case depth their. 
Title: Re: Cherry Red Hammer
Post by: KnifeMaker on December 31, 2017, 08:25:51 PM
Yep, case hardening is annealed exactly the same as any other heat treated steel. Just takes a lot less time, and as it is only a very thin layer, no need for prolonged slow cooling.  ;)

Knife
Title: Re: Cherry Red Hammer
Post by: rsterne on January 01, 2018, 01:17:50 AM
Thanks, Knife, didn't know that but it makes sense....

Bob
Title: Re: Cherry Red Hammer
Post by: Trigger_Finger on January 01, 2018, 12:14:45 PM
Well guys, I was able to make some holes using a single cheap Harbor Freight drill bit after heating the marauder hammer using a blow torch for about 60-90 seconds max (each hole )and not able to make it cherry red though. I then polished it. The striker got loose(thread lock melted). I reapplied blue lock tite but I might order the vibra tite from amazon. If the hammer shatters, it will be replaced by a MDS hammer. I don't know if it made a significant weight change but at least I know its very doable with a cheap drill bit and a drill press and blow torch.
Title: Re: Cherry Red Hammer
Post by: triggertreat on January 01, 2018, 01:23:08 PM
Good to know!  I hope though that your spring coils don't hang up in those holes and cause ES woes.  Looks possible.
Title: Re: Cherry Red Hammer
Post by: Trigger_Finger on January 01, 2018, 01:38:50 PM
Good to know!  I hope though that your spring coils don't hang up in those holes and cause ES woes.  Looks possible.

Excellent thing to watch out for Keith, I will have to polish those exit drill holes. Now I have to open that rifle again for the 2nd time. Im already forecasting that this rifle will be opened and closed 20-50 times. Is that an average number for a tinkerer?
Title: Re: Cherry Red Hammer
Post by: triggertreat on January 01, 2018, 04:46:37 PM

Good to know!  I hope though that your spring coils don't hang up in those holes and cause ES woes.  Looks possible.

Excellent thing to watch out for Keith, I will have to polish those exit drill holes. Now I have to open that rifle again for the 2nd time. Im already forecasting that this rifle will be opened and closed 20-50 times. Is that an average number for a tinkerer?


That's a good starting range.  I lost count on how many times I have opened mine up, but I have tried out many different mods and tricks which runs the numbers up.  In fact, it's back on the bench now.
Title: Re: Cherry Red Hammer
Post by: Trigger_Finger on January 01, 2018, 05:57:27 PM
Keith, what a way to pass the time.  I just finished opening up the Benjamin Disco. 22 for the first time replacing O rings (transfer port, gauge port, valve.Polished the hammer and tube with 2000 grit as well as the trigger contact points.
Title: Re: Cherry Red Hammer
Post by: triggertreat on January 01, 2018, 06:15:36 PM
I have two guns now so it's more relaxing and enjoyable to take one of them down and tinker on it at my leisure while the other still stands at the ready. 
Title: Re: Cherry Red Hammer
Post by: Trigger_Finger on January 01, 2018, 06:42:44 PM
I have two guns now so it's more relaxing and enjoyable to take one of them down and tinker on it at my leisure while the other still stands at the ready.


You are one of the few here who has the greatest self control to not give in to the addiction/sickness . I salute you for that!. You should be a role model. Or you can head the Air Rifle Anonymous!  Lol.
Title: Re: Cherry Red Hammer
Post by: KnifeMaker on January 01, 2018, 07:37:02 PM
Well, I hate it, but I screwed up!  I should have suggested removing the striker BEFORE heating. As it  wouldn't hurt to leave the face of the striker at full hardness.

At least,if it is too soft, it is a Very inexpensive part from Crosman.

Although I don't keep any here, there is a case hardening compound, (powder) that allows you to have a very hard surface on steels that otherwise won't heat treat, or if you only want a thin surface hardening.

It is available at any gunsmithing supply such as Brownells or Midway.

Knife
Title: Re: Cherry Red Hammer
Post by: KnifeMaker on January 01, 2018, 07:38:47 PM
Thanks, Knife, didn't know that but it makes sense....

Bob


Mr. Bob,
Although I don't keep any here, there is a case hardening compound, (powder) that allows you to have a very hard surface on steels that otherwise won't heat treat, or if you only want a thin surface hardening.

It is available at any gunsmithing supply such as Brownells or Midway shooting supply.

It is invaluable for treating parts such as trigger sears that are too soft.  ;)

Knife
Title: Re: Cherry Red Hammer
Post by: triggertreat on January 01, 2018, 08:32:19 PM

I have two guns now so it's more relaxing and enjoyable to take one of them down and tinker on it at my leisure while the other still stands at the ready.


You are one of the few here who has the greatest self control to not give in to the addiction/sickness . I salute you for that!. You should be a role model. Or you can head the Air Rifle Anonymous!  Lol.


That's what happens when you take a great platform and build on it.  I am covered from say 20 FPE to 75+ FPE with just two guns.  Both guns are giving me dime size groups at 50 yards so not sure what else I need.  I am seriously considering a big bore for hogs and deer and will also probably pickup a "premium" gun eventually.  I just don't want it to be a big disappointment so I am still researching on that.  I have read enough to know that premium/expensive doesn't necessarily mean stellar in performance with every gun which is similar to the Marauder platform. I really like what the .30 FX Boss offers.  It is also a lot of fun just trying to figure out what is the best fit for my needs which keeps me entertained.