GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: nielsenammo on November 30, 2017, 10:27:57 AM
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https://youtu.be/nIFOV1PLGjQ
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Did you ever find the right size that works in 22 and 25 cal Sumatras?
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I am bringing my .22 Sumatra out today to try these slugs in there. I have not found a great shooting slug for the .25 Sumatra, I have tired several.
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Nick, after watching the video I took a trip to your website. These look and perform GREAT!!! But, $199,999.99 per tin seems just a little much. Would this be for 500 or 250? ;) ;) :D
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They are not available yet. What happen is Matt sent me this video a few weeks ago but did not tell me when he was going to release it. I was making the core blanks on my casting machine and the drive motor quit. I believe the problem is the circuit board that converts the 220 AC input into DC voltage to run the drive motor. I have a circuit board that was overnighted to me and hopefully get the machine up and running today.
Once it is running I can make the core blanks and then start swaging. If the new circuit board fixes the problem I should have them up and running today and available for purchase. The cost is the same as 25 cal slugs, $19.99 per 100. I still make these one pellet/slug at a time after making the core blanks. Production is slow but they are great shooters.
These are tested in Daystate rifles and M10's with very good results. Other rifles will be tested coming up. I have only had these dies for a bit over a week. The ones I made for Matt were made with a different type of die that is extremely slow to make. This is why I have not done the testing yet. I will be testing in many rifles coming up. I also will order this at least one more diameter to offer for other rifles that this diameter does not work in.
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That's amazing...22 is a small slug! Matt's head shot at 5:50 was awesome--you can see the pellet going on it's way after the impact.
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Nick, after watching the video I took a trip to your website. These look and perform GREAT!!! But, $199,999.99 per tin seems just a little much. Would this be for 500 or 250? ;) ;) :D
If you clicked on the ammo it will bring the bullet page and they showed 19.99/ 100.. They will be aviable on December 1st.
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Two times higher BC is very interesting ( 0,04-0,05 vs 0,075 ) but more interesting is that FX start to produce also 600mm barrel l for FX Crown .
Unfortunately I have not understood video fully. Which was the grouping of the NSA slugs at 100 yd .
It was better than JSB Monster REDESIGNED ?
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Good job Nick for coming up with these. As Matt already saw quite a leap already in .22 and the barrels haven’t even been optimized yet. With bigger caliber and longer slugs the bc’s will go up even higher. Plus swaged is way better than cast. Extended range for most calibers with higher terminal velocities and thus energy-nice work keep it up!
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Would it be legally possible to export these pellets .
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I was out testing today and shooting in a Daystate Airwolf, Cricket, Sumatra and Hatsan Barrage.
The 22 caliber Cricket did not do well with them (the 25 caliber Cricket is fantastic with 39 grain slugs). I believe they are the wrong size for the barrel, I will look further into that and see what the Cricket may want.
The Airwolf does amazing with them.
Sumatra did well, better than I expected but I have not shot that gun much so I do not know what to compare it to.
The hatsan barrage did very good with them, we only shot at 53 yards with a 5 power scope and shot it pretty rapid fire.
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Hi Nick,
I was making some experimental high BC pellets for Matt Dubber (early versions shown below), but they were not accurate enough for him. I found your website and suggested he contact you. It seems the rest is history. ;D
Glad that things worked out for him. The fact that you already make quality products that are very close to what he wants, makes further experiments in .22 cal moot for me. I was making my own dies and it was a heck of a job...
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=125617.0;attach=186291;image)
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DO You know how these do in the regular fx barrels 22 or 25?
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Hey Nick, do you Know if your 44gr .250 fit the Evanix magazine ?
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makoda,
Considering "slugs" are not drag stabilized, the effective twist rate of the FX "smooth twist" barrel will almost certainly be way too low to prevent tumbling at anything over a few yards...
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Hi Nick,
I was making some experimental high BC pellets for Matt Dubber (early versions shown below), but they were not accurate enough for him. I found your website and suggested he contact you. It seems the rest is history. ;D
Glad that things worked out for him. The fact that you already make quality products that are very close to what he wants, makes further experiments in .22 cal moot for me. I was making my own dies and it was a heck of a job...
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=125617.0;attach=186291;image)
I have a die that will make a similar looking pellet to that, they were not accurate for me either. I have designs I make for myself and friends that are not on my site. I shoot them sometimes but I don't sell them because of the time it requires to make them. I have unbelievable amount dies and punches and you would be amazed at the hundreds of combinations I can make with my assortment. I have calibers, like .177 that are not on my site, I have a bullet for my .177 Airwolf that can post groups of 1 inch at 150 yards on a calm day.
My bullet making tooling exceeds my airgun addiction. It is quite sickening to be honest and embarrassed when my friends ask "holy @$%^, how much money do you have invested in all this". A change of the subject is my normal deflection.
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DO You know how these do in the regular fx barrels 22 or 25?
The FX smooth twist barrels I do not believe will shoot any slug well. I have never seen a group with one with slugs at range and the ones I have tried were not good. Those are fantastic pellet shooters but the twist rate is too slow for a projectile that requires spin to stabilize it's flights. Diabolo pellets need next to no spin to be accurate and makes perfect sense why FX would make such a barrel, they are made to shoot pellets with no consideration of a slug. The new barrels will be a whole new ball game. FX may have the new generation...
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Hey Nick, do you Know if your 44gr .250 fit the Evanix magazine ?
I do not own one or I would measure it. The slug is under .400 inches but someone with a magazine would have to measure how much room you have. If you have .400 is should work.
The only problem with some magazines is they are very wide for the skirt of a pellet so some magazines are too wide for bullets which are the same diameter and do not have a skirt.
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I emailed Matt Dubber to ask what "Smooth Twist-X" twist rates he was using with your projectiles, Nick. His response is quoted below:
Was using an 18.5” and 25” twist. Both worked fine.
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Good to know. Most of the .22 are pretty fast, like 16 or 18 twist. I think sizing is the number 1 issue. Being there are no standards in airguns, makes it hard to come up with a one size fits all slug.
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Good to know. Most of the .22 are pretty fast, like 16 or 18 twist. I think sizing is the number 1 issue. Being there are no standards in airguns, makes it hard to come up with a one size fits all slug.
Considering that the .22 Short rimfire uses a 1:20 or 1:24 twist, airgun slugs that weigh less than 30 grains should work with similar twist.
Yes, the .22 Short velocity is a little higher, but that is actually worse, as it is closer to the speed of sound. Also, pointy hollow nose slugs have their center of mass even further back. This increases their twist requirement.
As for the diameter question, Matt originally asked for a "nice tight fit", rather than providing actual diameters. So, I started out at .2215" and then made smaller and smaller dies. After Matt came back from FX earlier this year he said that .217 was the magic number.
My last efforts along these lines were projectiles with a cylindrical section at .210" diameter. At the front of that cylinder was a short bearing band at .218". The base had a slight hollow that was flared to produce a short driving band at .222". The idea was to reduce friction down the bore, yet not allow the "pellet" to slop around, while still passing through a tight choke with minimal effort.
It was while making the dies for the bearing band projectile that Matt reported mediocre accuracy with the projectiles pictured above; and that I suggested he contact you...
In the message from Matt about twist rates, he did expressed concern about shooting solids though a choked barrel. I suggested he ask FX to make him some unchoked liners, or ones with no more than 0.001" choke in diameter.
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I was out testing today and shooting in a Daystate Airwolf, Cricket, Sumatra and Hatsan Barrage.
The 22 caliber Cricket did not do well with them (the 25 caliber Cricket is fantastic with 39 grain slugs). I believe they are the wrong size for the barrel, I will look further into that and see what the Cricket may want.
The Airwolf does amazing with them.
Sumatra did well, better than I expected but I have not shot that gun much so I do not know what to compare it to.
The hatsan barrage did very good with them, we only shot at 53 yards with a 5 power scope and shot it pretty rapid fire.
We are intending to use slugs mainly/only for long distances.
Taste them at 100 yd and 1000 FPS whit scope magnification more then 24 .