GTA
Target Shooting Matches, Discussion & Events => Field Target Gates => Topic started by: gokidd on November 21, 2017, 01:36:49 PM
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Would it make sense to use lighter colors for the faceplates of targets that have extremely reduced kill zones?
Reason I suggest this: if you had, say, a black bear with a bright orange 3/8-inch KZ, that KZ would be effectively blackened by the third or fourth shooter. Black in black ... not good.
Whereas, if you had a polar bear with a black 3/8-inch KZ, hey ... that would be closer to the same for all shooters.
I know our local club's master of target painting often rings the reduced kill zones with a little bit of white and still maintains an otherwise natural-looking animal paint scheme.
Talk among yourselves.
Bob
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I don't have a suggestion, but I'm really liking that idea of a white target with a dark kill zone. My black squirrel will soon be turning white with a black or bare metal kill zone. Thanks for the idea
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I know our local club's master of target painting often rings the reduced kill zones with a little bit of white and still maintains an otherwise natural-looking animal paint scheme.
Our targets are only natural looking if you are an old hippie enjoying too many mushrooms. Hey, come to think about it............ ;D
Jim in Sacramento
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I know our local club's master of target painting often rings the reduced kill zones with a little bit of white and still maintains an otherwise natural-looking animal paint scheme.
Our targets are only natural looking if you are an old hippie enjoying too many mushrooms. Hey, come to think about it............ ;D
Jim in Sacramento
That's awesome looking, Jim!
.....but I couldn't shoot those.....looks way too nice. I only shoot plain, drabby targets ;D
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I don't have a suggestion, but I'm really liking that idea of a white target with a dark kill zone. My black squirrel will soon be turning white with a black or bare metal kill zone. Thanks for the idea
Hmmm ... Great Minds ... !
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Our targets are only natural looking if you are an old hippie enjoying too many mushrooms. Hey, come to think about it............ ;D
Jim in Sacramento
Haaaaaa!!!!
SS is Busted.
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Solid color targets are drab. Here in Dallas we like them realistic...
Two life-size Road Runners... (female, then male). We paint the paddles orange or yellow as a rule.
(http://i.imgur.com/f1KpUvU.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/cVXZT0W.jpg)
Here is the closest we get to solid colors... Egrets frequent the lake bordering our range. This one is 26" tall..
(http://i.imgur.com/Dk2bHke.jpg)
At this year's National Match in Phoenix, we were told that some targets had the "halo" of white around the KZ. But by the time I got to these, the halo was gone, as I can't say I actually saw a halo on any target.
We do have several solid color targets, but only those that make sense, like brown squirrels, black crows, red cardinals, etc. They are unremarkable to shoot at.
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Solid color targets are drab. Here in Dallas we like them realistic...
Those road runner targets are awesome!
I don't have much time to shoot, much less having to constantly repaint pretty targets. I do plenty of open sight shooting, so my silhouette targets gets pretty beat up. So, a few strokes of the spray can and I'm done.
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The issue you will run into with a light colored face plate with a small KZ(3/8-5/8) is that once the paddle has been cleared of paint and the rim gets shot up identifying the actual kill zone edges becomes near impossible regardless of light conditions. Now if you were looking to make things difficult for the shooter then it's a guaranteed way to go.
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Another method you can use to make a faceplate near unrangable is to mottle the paint job. Start with a black or white base then cover it with light sprays of two or three other colors until you've built up a fuzzy/molted looking finish. Sure to upset more than a few shooters.
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The issue you will run into with a light colored face plate with a small KZ(3/8-5/8) is that once the paddle has been cleared of paint and the rim gets shot up identifying the actual kill zone edges becomes near impossible regardless of light conditions.
Ran into exactly tath at the Nationals..... I just held in the center of the beat up area.....
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Another method you can use to make a faceplate near unrangable is to mottle the paint job.
Other things around to range on..... ::) My issue was never ranging, but finding the gall durn target at hi mag..... so Id not have an issue ranging a mottled target, but have struggeld at time to find it.....
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Would it make sense to use lighter colors for the faceplates of targets that have extremely reduced kill zones?
Worlds Rules stipulate face plate colors..... One tricck Ive seen used is ring the inside edge of the hole with white paint
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Would it make sense to use lighter colors for the faceplates of targets that have extremely reduced kill zones?
Worlds Rules stipulate face plate colors..... One tricck Ive seen used is ring the inside edge of the hole with white paint
As mentioned earlier, I did not see a single ringed target KZ at Phoenix, where it was advertised. Perhaps because the range (targets) were lit from behind most of the matches, If there were sunlight directly on the faceplates, perhaps the white surround might have been visible. But once shot-up, I still wonder.
Phoenix would have been better served in forgetting about the rings, and instead repainting the faceplates between the rifle matches.
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WFTF rules also limit the size of reducers compared to what we see in AAFTA, so that led to my original question / suggestion.
I am sure the U.S. uses smaller reducers to make up for our lack of space and distances on established gun ranges.
Nice discussion, many thanks.
Bob
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Bob! I had kind of an idea, still trying to think of the best way to do it.... But what about a light on the back of the faceplate illuminating the paddle?? Totally a crazy thought but hey? Maybe it's worth a shot!
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Bob! I had kind of an idea, still trying to think of the best way to do it.... But what about a light on the back of the faceplate illuminating the paddle?? Totally a crazy thought but hey? Maybe it's worth a shot!
Don't know which Bob you're asking, Cameron but we do something similar to this at the Dallas FT Club (short of installing actual lights). At DFTC, most of the lanes shoot to the South, so the Sun is often behind the target. Simply painting the back of the faceplate white reflects some of the light onto the paddle. Sometimes too much light!
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I am sure the U.S. uses smaller reducers to make up for our lack of space and distances on established gun ranges.
We use smaller reducers to maintain Troyer difficulty levels for closer targets (Europe does not use the Troyer System, and they also do not contend with the flatter-shooting trajectories of 20fpe-class airguns). Also, small KZs make the target harder to knock over (duh). In short, I don't think that a "lack of space and distances" has much to do with this.
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Bob! I had kind of an idea, still trying to think of the best way to do it.... But what about a light on the back of the faceplate illuminating the paddle?? Totally a crazy thought but hey? Maybe it's worth a shot!
Don't know which Bob you're asking, Cameron but we do something similar to this at the Dallas FT Club (short of installing actual lights). At DFTC, most of the lanes shoot to the South, so the Sun is often behind the target. Simply painting the back of the faceplate white reflects some of the light onto the paddle. Sometimes too much light!
Hey buddy!
That's an even better idea! The OP is from Bob Kidd, but thanks for chiming in. That's a very good idea. I'm over here trying to come up with a LIPO battery and one of my led bars. Not sure if anyone has seen a lipo battery burst, but it's not exactly something you'd want placed on a target. It's always fun during a race to have to strip a person's rc car body off, disassemble the battery tray and remove a smolderig battery before it damages anything. Imagine if we were shooting at them lol
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Hey buddy!
That's an even better idea! The OP is from Bob Kidd, but thanks for chiming in. That's a very good idea. I'm over here trying to come up with a LIPO battery and one of my led bars. Not sure if anyone has seen a lipo battery burst, but it's not exactly something you'd want placed on a target. It's always fun during a race to have to strip a person's rc car body off, disassemble the battery tray and remove a smolderig battery before it damages anything. Imagine if we were shooting at them lol
Keep in mind, Cameron, that anything behind the faceplate for protection from direct hits (in front)... is still subject to splatter when the pellet hits the paddle. I don't know about the LEDs themselves, but placing the batteries out of the way so they will not be punctured (instant LIPO fire) means that any wiring between battery and LED will be subject to random disruption by pellet schrapnel, etc.
You mention the fire hazard with LIPO batteries, and this is also something to consider for a separate reason. We do not allow smoking on our range due to fire hazard, a rule imposed by many shooting facilities. So, any battery erupting in fire will likely be just as bad, if not worse, positioned so close to dry leaf litter on the ground. I wouldn't want our range to burn down due to iffy battery technology, let alone pellet ricochets behind the faceplate.
It's an interesting idea, but artificial lighting is probably a risk I can't justify at DFTC. Not to mention dealing with the added complication of battery maintenance with an inventory of 50-60 targets.
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Hey buddy!
That's an even better idea! The OP is from Bob Kidd, but thanks for chiming in. That's a very good idea. I'm over here trying to come up with a LIPO battery and one of my led bars. Not sure if anyone has seen a lipo battery burst, but it's not exactly something you'd want placed on a target. It's always fun during a race to have to strip a person's rc car body off, disassemble the battery tray and remove a smolderig battery before it damages anything. Imagine if we were shooting at them lol
Keep in mind, Cameron, that anything behind the faceplate for protection from direct hits... is subject to splatter when the pellet hits the paddle. I don't know about the LEDs themselves, but placing the batteries out of the way so they will not be punctured means that any wiring between battery and LED will be subject to schrapnel disruption, etc.
You mention the fire hazard with LIPO batteries, and this is also something to consider. We do not allow smoking on our range due to fire hazard, so any battery erupting in fire will be just as bad, if not worse, positioned so close to dry leaf litter on the ground. I wouldn't want our range to burn down due to iffy battery technology, let alone pellet ricochets behind the faceplate.
It's an interesting idea, but artificial lighting is probably a risk I can't justify at DFTC. Not to mention dealing with the added complication of battery maintenance with an inventory of 50-60 targets.
That's why I like your white paint in the back of the faceplate. Too many variables and more stuff to do, I know match directors are begging for more tasks to do hah.
I might try it someday. I could easily make a magnetic 40mm tube predrilled for a 3led bar and a 200-350mah 3s 11.1v battery. It would just snap on the back of a faceplate and be an all in one unit that would be able to power the lights for 15+ hours. With nothing exposed to impact. It's just the IF factor, someone could mishandle or not balance the battery voltage properly and it could burst/ smoke. Maybe ill make one or two when I get a match going at our new place.
My barn has some great spots where the dairy cows used to be for a couple rat on the run targets in a dark area of the feed area.
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hmmm ...
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Bob,
Keep in mind that ALL PAINT gets removed ( Generally ) at point of pellet impact. Many times paint peels or chips GREATER than pellets diameter.
Being folks are aiming into the KZ, that paint no matter color is short lived. face plate color around the KZ hole also gets quickly removed leaving a mottled grey color leaving many to view a target pondering where to aim exactly ???
IMO ... sharp contrasting colors at the KZ look good early on but sadly are so short lived the gain is not universal among all shooters ... being when in the match you address a potentially difficult target is a random deal of the cards.
Come days end ... those with better eye sight & optics that mitigate focus errors generally score more hits .... It just is the nature of our game that ones eye health, age and physical stamina have more to do with it than target cosmetics that change with every shot against them.
Just some ramblings ...
Scott
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Come days end ... those with better eyesight & optics that mitigate focus errors generally score more hits .... It just is the nature of our game that ones eye health, age and physical stamina have more to do with it than target cosmetics that change with every shot against them.
Oh, totally agreed and understood, Scott. ;)
My point is a bright faceplate color with a dark 3/8-inch KZ is visible for more squads during a contest.
A black faceplate and bright KZ is only clear for two or three shooter squads. Then it is a black faceplate with a blackened paddle.
Glad we could stimulate discussion.
B
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Come days end ... those with better eyesight & optics that mitigate focus errors generally score more hits .... It just is the nature of our game that ones eye health, age and physical stamina have more to do with it than target cosmetics that change with every shot against them.
Oh, totally agreed and understood, Scott. ;)
My point is a bright faceplate color with a dark 3/8-inch KZ is visible for more squads during a contest.
A black faceplate and bright KZ is only clear for two or three shooter squads. Then it is a black faceplate with a blackened paddle.
Glad we could stimulate discussion.
B
Jim C will be up at the house next saturday helping prep the clubs targets ... we have a few 3/8" or 1/2" we can play with. Will do a BRIGHT face plate and a black paddle for us to try it out.
That should work for ya ;D
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Jim C will be up at the house next saturday helping prep the clubs targets ... we have a few 3/8" or 1/2" we can play with. Will do a BRIGHT face plate and a black paddle for us to try it out.
Way cool! Experimental Varmints!!
Thanks,
B
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I like your idea of a dark kill zone on white face-plate.
However, in the real world at my AG club, they make the face plates and kill zones all sorts of colors, then they put half the targets in deep shade. It takes old guys like me some time just to find the face plate, let alone the kill zone, when dark targets with dark kill zones are in deep shade, especially when the target is set out to 50 meters.
I guess that's why I like FT :P
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Haaaaa!
There ya go, Fred.
I'm with ya!
Bob
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Just another item to consider... At the beginning of a match, shooters who excel rely on resetting any downed target, then looking at it again through the scope to see where the pellet hit. It's a good way to verify your aim vs pellet strike, especially for wind doping. Black KZs make this almost impossible, just as it is often difficult to see a pellet strike on a Black faceplate.
At Dallas, we have few targets with BLACK faceplates. The vast majority are browns, greens, reds, yellows, etc. or natural animal colors. This usually allows discrimination of misses around the KZ and on the faceplate in general. Consequently, the paddles are usually white or orange, which allows vivid contrast with the faceplate.
Yes, the smaller KZ paddles lose their paint quickly. But the faceplate colors on ALL of our small KZ targets are painted in bright colors.
Personally, I have more issues with reducers behind the faceplate that present false KZs when all shot up. Technically, false KZs are not permitted, but no one cares to enforce this. But that's another subject...
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Once a KZ and surrounding area is sufficiently shot up, color does not matter. I'll stick with black face plates and yellow paddles. It is nice to see pellet strikes (hits AND misses). Paddle impacts on small KZ trargets are usually discernible for the first couple of shooters. Faceplate impacts are discernible for more. With sufficient lighting, even a black faceplate has sufficient contrast with a gray pellet strike. Hiding a target in a dark crevice with no direct light will cause problems regardless of colors used. I've been to some matches where it was more a game of "Where's Waldo?". And I think it's sometimes done on purpose.
Good lighting:
(http://www.scotthull.us/photos/Misc/100_5173.JPG)
Poor lighting:
(http://www.scotthull.us/photos/Misc/100_5174.JPG)
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Scott, Thanks for the pictures.
I personally do not like small kill zones with black face plates placed in the shadows. You will never know where to aim. It's a guessing game. I would personally place a dedicated LED flash light illuminating the face plate on such a target for all shooters to benefit.
I have seen people miss the face plate completely when a black target is placed in the deep shadows.
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I have seen people miss the face plate completely when a black target is placed in the deep shadows.
I've done that. Nothing to do with my shooting ability. After being unable to find the target, I decided to shoot where the string disappeared into the dark, and hope to hit something. Probably not a very responsible thing to do outside of a game/simulation. But since it's just a game, and the course setter may have intended it, why not.
Regardless of colors used, course setters/planners should insure that the target position has sufficient natural lighting. I guess they could use flood lights if they wanted to shoot in the dark.
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At my matches in Granbury I run light colored faceplates and black paddles. I have decided this is the best way to even the playing field. I want the new guy with a cheap scope to be able to have all the advantages he can. I want the best shot to rule the day. Not the guy with the finest equipment. I literally have guys with 3-9x UTG scopes and occasionally guys with 80x March scopes in the same match. I want to do what I can as a match director to take optics out of the equation as much as I am able. I also paint the back of the faceplates white. My opinion, but I think our European counterparts are correct on this and I follow their example.