GTA

All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: skorec on October 14, 2017, 05:13:25 AM

Title: How to improve shortest Puncher - NOT Breaker
Post by: skorec on October 14, 2017, 05:13:25 AM
After I have  received Puncher  I   done  quick  inspection and testing and I have  found  out next main problems and features :

1.   Too tick magazine was   able to put into the receiver only  very hardly.
2.   Manometer  always shows 150 bar independently of refilling. 
3.   Totally wrong accuracy 5 MOA have improved  a little bit (2-3MOA at 77 yd ) after sending  down edges inside chamber and removing front band between barrel and air tube. It was my mestake
4.    Also first part  2”  of bore lands are  scratched .
5.    I am not able to remove O-ring from barrel chamber .
6.   Barrel twist rate  is about 1:22” and no chocked ( 480mm x 14mm)
7.   At paper manual I can not see that valve needle is waist  as I saw at Breaker version probably along of  increasing  air transfer way .  I have not disassembly this part yet.
……………….

8.   40 pcs.  /JSB-10,3 gr.   shoots  around 23 FPE from 2900 to 2200 PSI

Just now I am managing new LW  23” barrel  for it.
I have choised two  best targets from ten.

Title: Re: How to improve Puncher .177 with 18” barrel
Post by: anti-squirrel on October 14, 2017, 11:05:41 AM
Thanks for sharing, Peter.  A little alarming you had to straighten a bend, and hearing the condition of the bore itself is a surprise, but if it can cleaned up maybe you can bring that accuracy down to 1 MOA.
Title: Re: How to improve Puncher .177 with 18” barrel
Post by: skorec on October 14, 2017, 01:15:42 PM
For now only SS string seems to be OK. 

Notice
I have done it before barrel disassembling and sanding  down barrel chamber. I do not understand why speed  has increased ( from 950 to 980 FPS )  after it . 
...............

Before one hour I was   trying to return band without O-ring  and POI change independently that the  band has 0,2mm space around hole  barrel.
Title: Re: How to improve Puncher .177 with 18” barrel
Post by: SilentMatt on October 14, 2017, 01:38:02 PM
The two barrels I've had in mine were horrible inside, lots of machining marks throughout. I good polishing might help it out a bit. You may have had a misaligment issue with the transfer port that caused the velocity change. I've had a new choked .25 barrel blank sitting on the bench for a couple weeks now, but no time to install it...
Title: Re: How to improve Puncher .177 with 18” barrel
Post by: skorec on October 15, 2017, 03:11:05 AM
The two barrels I've had in mine were horrible inside, lots of machining marks throughout. I good polishing might help it out a bit. You may have had a misaligment issue with the transfer port that caused the velocity change. I've had a new choked .25 barrel blank sitting on the bench for a couple weeks now, but no time to install it...

Thanks Matt,

I will do deeper inspection and polishing KP barrel  if  LW blank barrel  stay in blank condition too long. 
Yesterday evening it was really dead calm therefore I return back  the stock barrel band also with O-ring and tasted  accuracy. Is not too bad. Just I need to focus to velocity variation.

Title: Re: How to improve Puncher .177 with 18” barrel
Post by: skorec on October 18, 2017, 05:53:49 AM

My machinist who made me .22 LW barrel without big problems before refused me yet to  do also  .177 LW barrel.   He told me that is not able to do relieve at barrel chamber for O-ring.
Therefore I am planning to  improve my stock KP barrel by lapping by using Rotenstone and tight fitting patch as advanced me at 
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=132127.0. (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=132127.0.)

Yesterday I was testing SS  for JSB 10,34gr  that let me  4 Magazines ( 56 shots)  :
Mag1  3050PSI -  20870PSI  whit average speed 968 FPS
Mag2  20870PSI – 273PSI    whit average speed 980 FPS
Mag3   273PSI  - 2540PSI     whit average speed 964  FPS
Mag4   2540PSI   -  2180PSI   whit average speed 950  FPS

I hope that some of upgrading valve have done by USA/GTA  guys  able me to shoot  JSB Beast 16,2 gr with similar ( 900-950 ) velocity . 
Which and were to buy ?
Title: Re: How to improve Puncher .177 with 18” barrel
Post by: skorec on October 20, 2017, 03:30:39 AM
By next stock  barrel inspection and hardly cleaning ( with PerchlorEtylen I removed a lot of black dirt )    I have found out that :

1.   barrel has no any barrel chamber that means that bore start immediately at end of barrel.
2.   transfer port/hole at barrel  diameter  is 4mm.
3.   the shirts of pellets are  still scratched a little bit and  accuracy not increase to much.

Rottenstone is o the way.
Title: Re: How to improve shortest Puncher - NOT Breaker
Post by: skorec on October 31, 2017, 10:13:56 PM
Whether was a little bit better ( but not dead calm )  therefore I tasted my new barrel.
I Have shoot  6 magazines and it seams to be that first shoot from magazine is always bad.
Interesting also is that my barrel prefers higher  (  290-303 m/s)  velocities .   
Title: Re: How to improve shortest Puncher - NOT Breaker
Post by: skorec on November 01, 2017, 10:21:29 AM
I have forgot to mentioned that new barrel  air transfer  hole is only 3,5mm instead 4m original hole. 
Title: Re: How to improve shortest Puncher - NOT Breaker
Post by: skorec on November 02, 2017, 05:48:11 AM
Stock valve +  hammer and default   hammer spring + preloading  produce  shooting string with acceptable variation 290-303 m/s  for 5*14=70  JSB heavy pellets from 205b to 140b. Therefore I am avoiding  hammer bouncing.
 
The question is if  any  balanced  valve may improve shot string and stay at the same velocity 968 FPS with JSB 10,34gr pellets.
 
However softer  spring  and lower hammer strike can improve the trigger and  accuracy and reducing   noise.

What is your opinion ?
Title: Re: How to improve shortest Puncher - NOT Breaker
Post by: skorec on November 02, 2017, 02:46:46 PM
Today I have  cowered barrel by head adjusting insulating tube to avoid corrosion. 
Title: Re: How to improve shortest Puncher - NOT Breaker
Post by: thelast88 on November 03, 2017, 04:50:38 AM
I just have one question, why you forcing such a high speeds when we all know that's not good (in most cases) if you want to have accurate airgun?
I have Weihrauch HW100 FAC which can push the JSB Exact up to 1150fps (350m/s) but there's no accuracy, but at 790-890 fps (240-270m/s) its insane.

I know it's not 77 but 44y, but you can see what I'm talking about, gun wasn't even on rest or bags, it's just leaning on the fence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cH2sdGymc5o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cH2sdGymc5o)
Title: Re: How to improve shortest Puncher - NOT Breaker
Post by: skorec on November 03, 2017, 08:01:50 AM
I just have one question, why you forcing such a high speeds when we all know that's not good (in most cases) if you want to have accurate airgun?


Because in  my case : choked  LW 605mmx15mm barrel is two times more accurate  to use speed   above   290ms !!!
See my targets patiently
Title: Re: How to improve shortest Puncher - NOT Breaker
Post by: skorec on November 04, 2017, 10:23:25 AM
One of my  best grouping I made yet was done curiously  at windy whether at average speeds  295m/s - better  - 287m/s- poorer

Notice
I do not understand why speed drop a little bit  about  2%   after  barrel reassembling because  slieving . May be I need to find out any  silicon grease  ( NOT oil ) to seal up better barrel into receiver .
Title: Re: How to improve shortest Puncher - NOT Breaker
Post by: skorec on November 09, 2017, 02:27:27 AM
Today I found out horrible Puncher  issue.

Thin part  of  bolt probe on my Puncher is too short. Only 5mm.
To pushed all  types of pellets enough deep it have to be min 3mm longer.

Can you please measure  it at your Puncher
Title: Re: How to improve shortest Puncher - NOT Breaker
Post by: skorec on November 10, 2017, 09:38:29 PM
I bored 1mm hole,  add  self drilling screw and fixed it by tin.   
Title: Re: How to improve shortest Puncher - NOT Breaker
Post by: skorec on December 03, 2017, 03:34:11 AM
Can you   advice me how to stiffening  first part of barrel direct before receiver. 

Free floating LW 605x15mm barrel  is   shooting very  well  but POI Is changing   a little bit (  approximately sub MOA ) .
 
I am thinking to  add   some 10cm  prolonging chunk  fixed  to the receiver with four M5 screws.
Did you see somewhere similar or better barrel  stiffening  for   firs part of free floating barrel ?
Title: Re: How to improve shortest Puncher - NOT Breaker
Post by: skorec on December 03, 2017, 10:19:24 AM
I try to ask my mashinist for next chunk

Title: Re: How to improve shortest Puncher - NOT Breaker
Post by: skorec on December 07, 2017, 10:47:49 AM
20 shots direct from tin  .177  JSB Exact Heavy at 295-305 m/s  at very slow wind at 71m  distance.
Three ( F1,F2,F3  )  fliers rather then  pushed

Title: Re: How to improve shortest Puncher - NOT Breaker
Post by: skorec on December 30, 2017, 04:00:29 AM
6mm shorter but stronger hammer spring let me more power and more shots.
The gap of not cocking hammer to the valve stem is 4mm. 

My  new spring is ( better more tunable   will be ) :
length 58mm ( 55mm )
cross size  11,5mm ( 12mm )
wire thickness  1,4mm  ( 1,4mm )
number of twist 20  ( 10-12 )
Title: Re: How to improve shortest Puncher - NOT Breaker
Post by: skorec on February 21, 2018, 02:10:35 PM
I have added  four  M5  screws at 7mm at front of breech for additional  stiffening  the barrel inside the breech.  I hope it increase accuracy.

I am also thinking  to add CF sleeve at first ( from breech to barrel band  ) 40cm part of 60 cm barrel.
Which CF sleeve 400mm x 15mm inside OD 20mm otside OD you recommend me to buy ?
Title: Re: How to improve shortest Puncher - NOT Breaker
Post by: skorec on February 27, 2018, 02:37:33 PM
Today I have to repaired  my Puncher
Title: Re: How to improve shortest Puncher - NOT Breaker
Post by: oldpro on February 27, 2018, 02:43:34 PM
Today I have to repaired  my Puncher
Thats pretty common and why we made a upgraded handle for the Kral.