GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: skorec on October 02, 2017, 10:39:31 AM
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BullpUp advantages :
A1. The same length of barrel let us shorter gun .
A2. The same gun length let us more place for air reservoir
A3. They are obviously lighter .
A4. Hammer is near to shoulder therefore hammer strike impact less the accuracy.
BullpUp disadvantages:
B1.Accuracy are two times poorer via not free floating barrel and via changing POI depending of air tube deformation.
B2. The scope have to be more up of the barrel and therefore POI is poorer coordinating with theoretical Chair gun trajectory.
B3. We have to select shorter eye relief riflescopes only which are also more sensitive for parallax bug.
B4. Trigger prolonged assembly let us poorer and not so fine and stable trigger pull.
I am thinking that I have a lot of mistakes inside my statements . PLEASE correct me .
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I would say A3 isn't true they might feel lighter but aren't necessarily lighter. Some might be but mainly just center of gravity is closer to you.
B1 I've found untrue with my Taipans. Had no POI shift or inaccuracy from not being free floated. Haven't heard issues with Crickets or Vulcans with them but maybe just haven't seen the issues.
B3 I had same scopes on rifles to bullpups with no issues eye relief wise but my SWFAs might not have a problem in that area.
B4 for Taipans they have one of the best triggers out there on rifle or bullpup. Can't comment on other bullpups but have heard problems with there triggers.
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THAAANKS,
Via changing of POI ( cca 1cm/100bar at 70m ) my friend is going to swap from Cricket BullpUp to Cricket carbine.
Is the Taipan used also at Bench rest shooting ?
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I don't feel that my Taipan Mutant suffers from any of the listed disadvantages.
B1. The most accurate gun I own
B2. Still use medium rings, same as my marauder. It is slightly higher, but any cant is offset by the tiny lightweight scope level I put on it.
B3. I use the same scope on my marauder and mutant. Pretty standard. I don't know where this one came from. I actually have more range on the weaver base of my mutant than the dovetail on my maruader.
B4. Best trigger I have ever pulled, on any type of "long gun".
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Haven't really noticed BP's being "obviously lighter" barrel length to barrel length, they just carry it in a smaller length pile.
Not all have true barrel bands...can look like one, but if it's not in contact with the barrel it's not really an accuracy issue. But for the ones that do use a real barrel contacting band, it is in the worst place for one (near the middle of the air tube, where you could expect the most expansion).
Why would you have to use short eye relief scopes on a BP?
Seems like I'm defending bull pups...really don't care for them.
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My only bull pup experience is with my .25 Bullboss.
At 8.6lb, without a scope, it is not by any means a lightweight...but it shoulders well, so you don't necessarily feel the full weight.
On a bipod, I can consistently hit 3mm wide plant stems/stalks out to 40yds....so, personally, I think its accurate.
Not sure why you feel bp needs short eye relief scopes ??? However, you'll more than likely need high scope rings.
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Main problem seen with bullpups is many woman shooters find them awkward and even uncomfortable to shoot.
Otherwise, not much difference. A well designed bullpup is a joy to handle. Poorly designed ones are bastardized rifle platforms with bolt action or sidelever in an awkward location.
I still prefer a rifle in most situations, but a bullpup makes for very comfy handling for me in brush.
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OK, I just wanted to create discussion about some bullpup caveats.
I am tending to believe that some of BullpUps as Taipan Mutant, FX Impacts, RTI priest ,… have not any or all of mentioned disadvantages.
Can you let me some info about its BR scores ?
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My main experience with bullpups was the MDRL kit for Mrods. ie making a rifle into a bullpup vs BP designed from the ground up.
- A3: Weight was within a couple of ounces to the Gen 1 Mrod. Weight distribution made it "seem" lighter and easier to handle
- A4: Can't confirm, outside of with a BP, your ear is much closer to the hammer and the mechanics, so it is louder to the shooter.
- B4: It had rods connecting the BP trigger to the rifle trigger, so that was true with that kit
- B1: The scope mount was clamped to the airtube, but barrel was still free-floated. The accuracy was not quite as good as it was in rifle format. poi did seem to wander slightly more over the pressure range.
- B3: Was not an issue for that kit. I suspect that is only with some designs that used an offset mount to the breech. I saw that in other kits and some early BP designs.
I think a number of your negatives are based on kits which always have trade-offs and/or early BP designs.
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Ask Goldie Locks, you have to shoulder different sizes and see which one is just right for your fit and use, For me it is a semi bull pup. I want to add 4 inches to my P-15 butt pad its to short for my liking, but there are many who love that nearness. My Zbroia Kozak fits me. How wonderful it is to have such variety to chose from
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For me, it's a matter of "close quarters" fighting/shooting vs. open area fighting/shooting.
Haven't found anything "magic" about bull pups other than they being shorter. Shorter helps me swing around in close environments...would certainly be my choice in house-to-house combat...or shooting from the drivers seat in a car parked along side an open field....but not a help in my shooting world.
For me, a stocked pistol carbine fills the lite-weight/short carbine role fine,...maybe because I'm not willing to give up a stubby-snubbie sub 5 pound istol/carbine for an equally stubby 8 pound bull pup just for the sake of muzzle energy (not when the critters shot don't need the mega-power).
But hey...if you like the idea and really have to have a bullpus to be happy...go for it...they don't seem to work any worse than more traditional choices, and if that's your "thing", then be happy....but don't think it's somehow it's inherently "better".
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Have no idea how having the hammer and valve closer to your shoulder would change accuracy.
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OK, I just wanted to create discussion about some bullpup caveats.
I am tending to believe that some of BullpUps as Taipan Mutant, FX Impacts, RTI priest ,… have not any or all of mentioned disadvantages.
Can you let me some info about its BR scores ?
Impact won EBR and has placed every year of it's existence.
Never heard anybody received a bad Mutant. But people who buy them shoot things with them, not focus on bench-rest scores.
Honestly, I wouldn't buy a bullpup for benchrest. I'd purchase a gun tailor-made for benchrest. Something heavy, overbuilt, rock-solid, etc. A one-trick pony, but that's me. The whole point of a bullpup is a hypermanueverable short gun that is easier to use/swing/maneuver in tight quarters. IE: just the opposite of a benchrest comp.
Shooting stuff indoors or in underbrush, or from an automobile- yeah, the bullpup shines.
Here's a couple potential disadvantages to bullpups:
1: your head is closer to the excitement. This may or may not be an issue for some
2: they are usually more complex due to linkages
Please note what I said: potential. May or may not. Usually.
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It's most about comfort. Which feels better to hold and shoot. I like resting my cheek on a nice stock, so rifle for me.
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Bullpups can do most everything a full length rifle can do now a days but in a more compact package. Why not? I guess it's just a matter of personal preference. I will say that I've found its harder to shoot a bullpup accurately than a rifle.
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Peter I have an MrodAir P12 with a Hawke 3x9x40 AMX reticle. I have also had a Hawke Vantage 4x16x44 on the P12 and had no issues mounting or using either scope. The P12 is actually heavier than my M16 Dominator, so not the lightest rifle that I own. As for accuracy, my P12 performs equally as well as any of my rifles and Chairgun is right on the money with calculations for the P12.
As a field gun the balance of the P12 Bullpup is perfect for shooting offhand and while I have recently detuned the gun to shoot JSB 18 gn at 950 fps, I used to have it set to shoot 21 gn Baracudas at 40 ft lbs, and if a tree was convenient for steadying the shot, no squirrel was safe out to 100 yards.
I don't see any real disadvantage to the modern Bullpup platform, especially if, like me, your hunting style involves constant moving and long distance woods walking.
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OK, I just wanted to create discussion about some bullpup caveats.
I am tending to believe that some of BullpUps as Taipan Mutant, FX Impacts, RTI priest ,… have not any or all of mentioned disadvantages.
Can you let me some info about its BR scores ?
Impact won EBR and has placed every year of it's existence.
Never heard anybody received a bad Mutant. But people who buy them shoot things with them, not focus on bench-rest scores.
Honestly, I wouldn't buy a bullpup for benchrest. I'd purchase a gun tailor-made for benchrest. Something heavy, overbuilt, rock-solid, etc. A one-trick pony, but that's me. The whole point of a bullpup is a hypermanueverable short gun that is easier to use/swing/maneuver in tight quarters. IE: just the opposite of a benchrest comp.
Shooting stuff indoors or in underbrush, or from an automobile- yeah, the bullpup shines.
Here's a couple potential disadvantages to bullpups:
1: your head is closer to the excitement. This may or may not be an issue for some
2: they are usually more complex due to linkages
Please note what I said: potential. May or may not. Usually.
Thanks for info about FX Impact and EBR and thanks all of us for not stupid and not dummy comments. Unfortunately I am not so good in English to be able to answer to all of you.
At your answers I have found out that only A1 is mainly advantage for BUllpUp but unfortunately I did not found out deeper discussion about B2.
I want to add one question.
Is there some reason to buy obviously more expensive BullpUp for using only at large (40x100yd) backyard and mainly using with some type of bench resting position ?
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OK, I just wanted to create discussion about some bullpup caveats.
I am tending to believe that some of BullpUps as Taipan Mutant, FX Impacts, RTI priest ,… have not any or all of mentioned disadvantages.
Can you let me some info about its BR scores ?
Impact won EBR and has placed every year of it's existence.
Never heard anybody received a bad Mutant. But people who buy them shoot things with them, not focus on bench-rest scores.
Honestly, I wouldn't buy a bullpup for benchrest. I'd purchase a gun tailor-made for benchrest. Something heavy, overbuilt, rock-solid, etc. A one-trick pony, but that's me. The whole point of a bullpup is a hypermanueverable short gun that is easier to use/swing/maneuver in tight quarters. IE: just the opposite of a benchrest comp.
Shooting stuff indoors or in underbrush, or from an automobile- yeah, the bullpup shines.
Here's a couple potential disadvantages to bullpups:
1: your head is closer to the excitement. This may or may not be an issue for some
2: they are usually more complex due to linkages
Please note what I said: potential. May or may not. Usually.
Wrong. First year impact finished 12th and Ted didn't even make it to the finals with his.
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OK, I just wanted to create discussion about some bullpup caveats.
I am tending to believe that some of BullpUps as Taipan Mutant, FX Impacts, RTI priest ,… have not any or all of mentioned disadvantages.
Can you let me some info about its BR scores ?
Impact won EBR and has placed every year of it's existence.
Never heard anybody received a bad Mutant. But people who buy them shoot things with them, not focus on bench-rest scores.
Honestly, I wouldn't buy a bullpup for benchrest. I'd purchase a gun tailor-made for benchrest. Something heavy, overbuilt, rock-solid, etc. A one-trick pony, but that's me. The whole point of a bullpup is a hypermanueverable short gun that is easier to use/swing/maneuver in tight quarters. IE: just the opposite of a benchrest comp.
Shooting stuff indoors or in underbrush, or from an automobile- yeah, the bullpup shines.
Here's a couple potential disadvantages to bullpups:
1: your head is closer to the excitement. This may or may not be an issue for some
2: they are usually more complex due to linkages
Please note what I said: potential. May or may not. Usually.
Wrong. First year impact finished 12th and Ted didn't even make it to the finals with his.
I don't keep track of the FX Impact- I thought it was a relatively new gun out only these last couple years. Besides, I wouldn't buy an FX even if you gave me the money for it... Okay, I would so I could sell it and finance a SPA bullpup and a Mutant for the same money.
Women, especially those with larger breasts, have a harder time with bullpups as they are a little more tricky to snug against the body since your arms are tucked closer thus compressing the chest and pectoral muscles. Just a matter of how they are held versus body dimensions.