GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: Nvreloader on September 22, 2017, 02:24:15 PM
-
Well Guys
I finally received my brand new 4500 psi hand pump, AV G6 type,
put it together per instructions, pumped the brand new 3000 psi Ninja tank to 2000psi etc.
Then I proceeded to install this new 10 shot repeater option on the QB 79, 22 cal,
(I have to shoot 40-50 shots to see if this bbl is accurate, and send him a photo of the target, per the suppliers email,
this bbl had a ring in the bbl, that is has 6-8 lands/grooves destroyed, about 3-1/2 " from the chamber end,
when I pushed several pellets past this defect, the pellets jump past this ring etc). :o
Got it all back together correctly and it works, shot several shots out the shop door,
was raining/blow up gale force winds etc.
Topped off the tank to 2000 psi again, and when I detached the quick disconnect chuck,
several small BB's fell out of the disconnect head, what the )#&%$*#, brand new only 2 partial fill ups.
I have sent an email to the supplier for instructions.
Attached the Ninja tank to the 79 and set it inside next to the door,
when I got this AM, dog was alerting me to some magpies and ravens that were perched on top of the chicken coop,
they have been pecking/eating the eggs the hens were laying inside etc,
Grabbed the 79 loaded a mag and trip the hammer, I was rewarded with phuuuuuf (very very weak) sound,
and the pellet hit the ground about 20' in front of me, )*(&%#^*(. :o
I checked the air gage and it read less than 500 psi. So I guess I goofed some when installing this repeater kit,
and or the Ninja tank and will have to tear every thing apart to find the problem etc.
I am thinking that the Ninja tank is leaking air out some where, as it should hold Hpa air until I fire the 79?
First time using Hpa, have always run this 79 on Co2 and never any problems etc.
Any suggestions on where I should be looking?
Tia,
Don
-
Maybe try filling it up and rapid dry fire it a few times to try to clear out any debris that may be stuck in the ninja tanks valve? This worked with my disco when I had a slow leak through the valve stem. It's worth a shot and shouldn't harm anything.
-
Not sure?? why you would think it's the ninja tank valve, I would be more inclined to say it's the valve in the gun, Remove the tank pump it up, And let it sit for 24 hrs see if the bottles Gauge leaks down, If not. It's your Gun's valve, or a seal, somewhere. Remember air's density is thinner than CO2, That's what makes it more efficient, But it can sneak by seals easier than CO2, Did you lube - up the 2 O-rings on the tank regulator before screwing it on your block?? I personally use a light film of Silicone grease on all my O-rings.
-
I have been reading up on a summer / winter combination of bulk filling my Co2 guns above 65 degrees and running HPA regulated to Co2 Pressures in the Winter.
One think I learned is Air will leak in Guns that held Co2 just fine. Air being thinner down at the molecular level I believe.
Can you put a Co2 Tank back on and see if it holds?
-
CO2 Permeation, Is common in O-rings, That's why most use Urethane rings which are whitish or cream in color, As CO2 will not affect them, After Co2 penetrates thru an O-ring, Air will just migrate thru them even Faster. If you gun has never seen Or will never see CO2 standard rubber O-rings will last a long time. {But for dual purpose use Co2 And HPA} You would have to change out your rings to Urethane. If you know your O-rings size numbers, Just order them up at an O-ring store. If you don't have the sizes and don't want to do the homework, Call or Email, Tim at Mac1 airguns and tell him what you need a kit for a QB79 and what caliber it is, He will put together a kit for you. http://www.mac1airgunshop.com/rebuild-parts-s/1826.htm?searching=Y&sort=2&cat=1826&show=10&page=3 (http://www.mac1airgunshop.com/rebuild-parts-s/1826.htm?searching=Y&sort=2&cat=1826&show=10&page=3) And https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=66133.5;wap2 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=66133.5;wap2)
-
I'd suspect the tank block o rings or the valve as mentioned. A little soapy water will let ya know.
Been there before.
-
Thanks for the info Guys,
I just screwed a new Co2 cyl on and will check in the AM,
I had coated all the seals/threads etc with silicone grease,
when installing all the parts etc.
Pecor
I don't know what type/brand these seals are, they came with the kit,
The info about the urethane seals/"O" rings is very welcome,
I'll have to find the correct ones now.
The OEM valve was NOT removed/dissembled etc,
all that was done was unbolt the top action/breech and replace it with the 10 shot repeater breech,
and I used the new Ninja Hpa tank.
I have to wait until the new air chuck is delivered, the supplier is sending a new to me.
Is the tiny bearing falling out of the end a common problem, if so I'll find a 3000 psi fitting etc.,
and I won't use the defective one.
HD
I am setting the QB 79 up for both fuel types, summer/winter use, I hope......
And I have a itchy trigger finger, I want to try out the Hpa end, so bad.....
Mean while, the 17 XST Weasel, 17 cal PB is standing guard........... ;)
Tia,
Don
-
Don I am currently working on that for my Beeman AR2078-B plus 3 more. I will be post results so please watch for it.
-
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=66133.0;nowap (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=66133.0;nowap)
-
Thanks Guy for the info,
I checked the new Co2 cyl and it still reads at 1500 psi, this AM,
so I believe I have NO leaking etc.
I also checked the Ninja tank and found what appears slivers of "O" ring material,
in the inside diameter of the quick connect fill valve?
the source of the leak???
Pecor
Thank for the info, I am hunting some up now.
Tia,
Don
-
Take a peek at your pump quick-disconnect that lost it's balls :o, Those balls keep everything lined up, And locked when you connect to your fill port, And look at the O-ring in it, and see if you see any damage or rubber shaving on it? Heck just pull the o-ring out and inspect it as the connector is junk anyway. I'm thinking maybe a piece of o-ring may have tried or passed thru the Ninja fill check valve fitting?? While the bottle is off waiting for a pump parts, You could degas and pull the Ninja fill check valve bottle fitting and Inspect it, And clean it {Page 6 in your Ninja manual} Just remember if you pull that off it will need to be resealed with teflon tape or sealant. {Pump Tip} In Just case it happens to you, I have a chinese clone pump they work well, But It can happen to any brand, If it ever pushes back when pumping say in a 3/4 stroke and the handle wants to rise on it's own, Note it may not happen on every stroke, That's a sign one or both of the 2 pump check valves are sticking, I went thru that Dance with mine >:( It started on it's 5-6 th use. I tore it down and found a big gob of chinese silicone grease sitting in a check valve, Not allowing the valve to open and close properly. I cleaned out the grease and Lubed it with silicone sauce, And has been working great Since. Cheers! Hope this helps ya out. Jaa
-
Jay
THANKS for the info.......
I just checked the quick disconnect on the hose, I don't see a "O" ring inside anywhere, just brass?
I will check the manual for the Ninja tank instructions, I hope, I won't cancel the guarantee on the tank,
I had to pump over 200-300 times in steps to get the psi levels to 2000 psi, on the first fill up,
I was beginning to think I had a problem. :o
What is the BEST transport seal, it has a yellowish seal with a tip that extends about 1/16" above the main tube,
and into the breech, (both breech and air tube are round (OEM).
With the new repeater breech, it has a round trough cut full length into the bottom of the flat breech,
and it appeared that this OEM seal fit into the transport hole??
If this trend keeps going on, I'll stay with Co2, so far I have had NO problems...... ;)
Tia,
Don
-
Guys
(*&&%#%^*&()(*&^%$$ still/more leaking............
I have had it with this 79 leaking,
I lost another Co2 cyl yesterday, leaked out over night,
got the replacement air chuck yesterday and filled the 13/3000 psi tank to 2000 psi,
let it set over night, lost over 500 psi from the tank, not attached to AR.
I can detach the Co2 cyl from the AR, I have an off/on valve on it, along with the 3000psi air tank etc,
I can NOT hear any leaking air from either of the fuel sources etc.
How can I reliably check these 2 types of fuel sources for leaks,
and the rifle it's self, when these air sources are attached ?
I am just about ready to pull the stock/scope off and fill the tube and drown it, along with the cyl/air tank,
to find the leaking point etc.
Any suggestions of Ideas that wont hurt/damage anything?
Tia,
Don
-
Don,
Take a deep breath, relax....
One thing for CERTAIN, CO2 and HPA guns WILL LEAK! it might be days, maybe years. At some point, you'll have to deal with a leak.
Since the leak is happening with both air sources, I'd guess you have bad valve stem seal. I've dunked several guns to track down a small leak. Like you say, remove the stock/scope and dunk away! you're going to have to open up the gun to fix the leak, drying it out and giving the metal a light lube to prevent corrosion is easy since you already have to take the gun apart...
For the air tube or any metal parts that contain the CO2/HPA, I use silicone in a spray can once I get things dry to prevent corrosion. Hose it down, run a dry patch or wipe with cloth to soak up any extra. One thing to keep in mind when using spray silicon, the carrier, is usually a petroleum distillate. So, make SURE the carrier has evaporated completely before filling the gun.
On the exterior metal surfaces that don't have HPA contact, I use breakfree CLP collector. You can use anything you like in this case, just be careful that nothing can seep into areas that contain the HPA, OR come in contact with part of any O rings.
For the air tank leak. Its a burst disk, fill nipple, leaking or bad stem seal/O ring in the reg. Hard to say what one it is. So, dunk the top of the bottle in water, the bubbles will tell you exactly where the leak is ;)
Just like with the gun, make darn SURE, the tank is empty before you go to removing the bonnet or tightening a leaking burst disk/fill nipple.
Don't give up just yet, its just a leak, you'll find it, and fix it.
-
Might be a good idea to check your tank and the co2 cartridge with the on/off valve first before dunking the gun. You already know your hpa tank is leaking on its own. The on/off on your co2 may be leaking as well and your gun may be fine. No use dunking it if the leak is elsewhere.
-
Did you get an O-ring kit? And change your O-rings out? And yes put the head of the air tank when Refilled into some water and watch for a stream of bubbles, If you see them That's your target. If you don't see any leaks, Take the bottle pressure up to 3K, And try it again? If you still don't see any tell tale leaks, You may just be experiencing the pressure drop that happens, After you pump Warm-Hot air into your tank, FYI, When air compress's in the pump it creates heat! And when it cools Down! it drops a bit in pressure, Although I have not seen that big of a drop, But I don't know how fast your pumping it ether? The faster you pump it the hotter your making your air and the bigger you pressure drop will be When it cools to ambient temp.
-
Why not spray the suspect areas with silicon spray lube and watch for bubbles and avoid the water all together?
-
Well Guys
Here is the verdict on this leaking Lena 79,.... Both with Co2/Hpa......... >:(
1. Very small leak from the fill nozzle on the Ninja tank, and around the gage stem,
filled to 2500psi, I will drain it again, before working on it.
2. Leak from the off/on valve coming from the center of the off/on knob, and another leak from the JT adapter,
that the Co2 cylinder screws into, Brand New adapter...... that screws into the off/on valve,
will have to find "O" rings that fit these adapters, if possible.
3. Major leak from the TP seal between the psi tube/breech, don't know how to seal this area,
as I have always put new seals on every connection port when rebuilding this AR.
I am using the hose type "O" rings, I got from 2 different sources etc.
When I have it apart today, I'll turn a metal Ferrell to fit this area, aka Crosman type,
as the bottom of the repeater breech appears to be TOO tall for this tube "O" ring,
with it's radius channel down the breech bottom, to seal properly.
Today, while testing/shooting the NEW repeater bbl 79,
I felt a major blast of air from the jct, between the breech/psi tube, right at the TP spot, on each shot.......
so I know I am leaking air there........
BACK to the bench again.......More later..
Tia,
Don
-
Wow, lots of leaks hey, that's no fun. So the leak at the transfer port is only when you fire it. That is strange the crosman seal isn't working there. Works great on mine. I had a blast of air coming from barrel orings being damaged, which I thought was the port seal for awhile. Not saying that is your trouble though. I also had trouble with two of those 88g adapters, took one back to the store for a swap. I know where I bought them they had a whole pack of orings for it for sale so hopefully u will find the same and can get rid of the leak there.
-
I felt a major blast of air from the jct
jct?
whazzat?
I and feeling stoopid again. :-[
-
I felt a major blast of air from the jct
jct?
whazzat?
I and feeling stoopid again. :-[
I was thinking junction ;D
-
Well at least your making Headway!! 8) You can try to snug up those pesky fittings It may work fine, I personally Don't use Teflon tape on my fittings myself, Others do, I Retired from the aircraft field where thread tape is a No No. I much prefer a thread sealant, And I use http://www.airgas.com/p/L6556531 (http://www.airgas.com/p/L6556531) It's rated to 10,000 psi, and easy as pie to take apart even after a good long cure, And easy to clean off old cured with your finger nail when doing service disassembly and reassembly. And I have Never had a leak from It! It does require an overnight cure however. And if you interested ?? This is the seller I purchased from and was 100% satisfied with the sale and shipping is --- http://www.ebay.com/itm/Loctite-37396-PST-565-Thread-Sealant-/142159296211?epid=1437283251&hash=item21195ab6d3:g:yJgAAOSwo4pYDlqC (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Loctite-37396-PST-565-Thread-Sealant-/142159296211?epid=1437283251&hash=item21195ab6d3:g:yJgAAOSwo4pYDlqC)
-
Thanks Guys
HD
Jct is the abbreviation for Junction, like Pettycoat Jct, maybe ahead of your time. LOL ;D
WesBob
Get's the Gold Star, LOL ;D
Pecor
Thanks for the sealant info, I have a tube coming,
as it appears it will be needed with this AR and it's leaking habits etc.
Tia,
Don
-
Gotchya...
And not hardly... ;D
"There's Uncle Joe, He's a movin kinda slow, at the Junction."
-
Pecor
What would your thoughts be on using a heavy coating of the 565 thread sealant to provide a air proof gasket,
when using the nipple (aka Crosman type) to seal the TP hole etc, providing every thing is made/machined to match to each other?
I haven't received my 565 sealant yet.
I am going to try my Idea of using Ferr-l-tite to seal all voids etc, easy to use and clean/remove as needed etc,
and I have to find a GOOD way to cut the tubing type seals, straight/true, as using scissors don't work well, as I found out. :o
Tia,
Don
-
That wont work, With this sealer, As it's "Anaerobic" meaning that {The product cures when confined in
the absence of air between close fitting metal surfaces} and prevents loosening and leakage from shock and vibration. which is why you can get it apart after assembly fairly easy. It's not like glue. For cutting the tubing type seals, straight/true slide the Tube over a wood dowel or drill bit the same size as ID, And use a straight edge razor blade to cut thru, You could do it on a drill spinning slowly and use the blade like a lathe bit. Or slide the tube over your drill bit and roll it on a table as you cut it straight. If you use a drill bit I would use a fresh blade for each cut ;) I'm not sure if the Ferr-l-tite will work? Make sure it's clean, Rubbing alcohol You can try it, I have used it in archery as my son shoots 3D leagues. You might try cheap 5 min epoxy from a big box store? use it lightly, {Just enough to do the Job} As It can be softened and removed with heat such as a soldering iron applied to the transfer port latter down the road if you need to remove it. Don't use slow set epoxy however as it will Not soften up like 5 minute will. It's a different formula . If you get your tube cut straight with proper length, Make it just a touch longer for a crush fit when tightened - up. And you should be Good!! With out any thing. Jaa
-
Jay
I guess I should have explained myself better, sorry about that.
After the TP fitting is machined as close as possible to fit the repeater breech etc,
then use the 565 sealant between the 2 metal joint surfaces,
this would make sure that this TP seal does not move/come loose, and provides air proof joint,
then the "O" ring tubing could be cut to the required length for the rest of the sealing area to the psi tube etc.
I would make the TP ferell fit the breech, as it has no recessed area for the plastic tubing to center up on around the TP hole etc,
the psi tube as a shallow recess to fit the tubing into.
I'll have to get the wood dowels out and try that trick for cutting the tubing into "O" rings.
Tia,
Don
-
Try going to your local "cigarette outlet" gas stations and pick up a cheap cigar cutter that looks like a little guillotine.
(https://www.dhresource.com/200x200/f2/albu/g5/M01/E8/80/rBVaI1kCj0eAabPzAAAx_qdORqw571.jpg)
-
Scott
Thanks for that info, just might work,
I know scissors won't cut uniformly/square ends etc.
I will measure the total distance between the breech and psi tube, to get the overall distance,
I have to find the correct length for the compression of the "O" ring etc.
The TP/bottom of this repeater breech has a radius channel which closely matches the radius of the psi tube,
in which the TP hole is drilled thru, there is no radius cut ring/lip for the "O" ring to seal against,
so it appears that this "O" ring can be very easily displaced when assembling the 2 parts together, as i found out etc.
I will mill a "O" ring lip for the sealing end of the "O" ring to fit into and to stop the movement etc.
I am in the process of turning a alum and brass metal adapter sleeve to fit the the psi tube (aka Crosman style),
and then have the the tubing "O" ring fit over this sleeve and fit into the lip of the breech, contain any movement etc.
I now have several different sizes/diameters of the tubing "O" ring material, just deciding on which one to use,
I think I'll start with the clear type smaller inside diameter of .240" O/S x .175" I/S, as this as close to bore diameter for max internal ballistics,
black color is .290" O/S x .190" I/S diameter approx.
Still doing some careful measurements and pencil whipping the info, and figuring out the final results etc.
Tia,
Don
-
{Quote} the TP fitting is machined as close as possible to fit the repeater breech etc,
then use the 565 sealant between the 2 metal joint surfaces, Hello Don. Yep I misunderstood your use. All you can do is try, In that case the Ferr-l-tite may work as well? And you really don't need a wood dowel, Think, Anything round and firm that fits Just slightly snug in your tube will work. Old hobby paint brush handle, ink-pen cartridge, shish-kabob stick, It in fact Looks like that factory QB79 transfer port seal is Junk, Do some reading by searching here for {QB79 transfer port}, Looks like lots are using the crosman seal, https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=105551.msg1000763#msg1000763 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=105551.msg1000763#msg1000763) And here is a Different take on that same seal -- http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMK-QB-TH-XS-78-79-TRANSFER-PORT-CUSTOM-SIZES-/172853316301?hash=item283edc4acd:g:-bMAAOSws4JW7bP3 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMK-QB-TH-XS-78-79-TRANSFER-PORT-CUSTOM-SIZES-/172853316301?hash=item283edc4acd:g:-bMAAOSws4JW7bP3)
-
Jay
That Ebay site has/is the same type of seal that was in my OEM 79.......before I went to the repeater breech,
But I think it is too short in length to complete the seal with the repeater breech/bbl etc, because of the radius on the bottom etc.
You have given another Idea to completely sealing my "Leaking Lena", ;)
Thanks
As I have some soft squishy Teflon rods to play with.
Tia,
Don
-
My fault, That's my age setting in ::) completely forgot about the repeater breech, Duh :o. No way to mill or file a flat instead like crosman does on their valves and barrel ports?, I did see this it's not for your gun but maybe you could add to the Idea list, Looks simple to put together, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HIGH-FLOW-TRANSFER-PORT-TO-FIT-CROSMAN-2240-2250-2260-2289-1377-1322-/272870267948?_trksid=p2349526.m2548.l4275 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HIGH-FLOW-TRANSFER-PORT-TO-FIT-CROSMAN-2240-2250-2260-2289-1377-1322-/272870267948?_trksid=p2349526.m2548.l4275)
-
Thanks Jay
That site has given me some more food for thought Ideas. ;)
Tia,
Don