GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => German AirGun Gate => Topic started by: TwiceHorn on September 18, 2017, 03:26:27 PM
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I'm sure it's been explained somewhere, but I can't seem to find it.
I think we all know that Dr. Beeman, as Beeman Precision Airguns, imported Weihrauch and other rifles for many years, and applied his own model numbers and stamps to them and occasionally changed the stocks up a bit.
And someone (Pyramyd/Air Venturi? Legally S/R Industries) purchased the Beeman name and continued to import them using the same model numbers after his death and the dissolution of the old entity.
Now, I think we know that Beeman/Marksman uses the Beeman brand on Chinese rifles. The federal trademark registration is now owned by SHANGHAI GONG ZI MACHINERY MANUFACTURING CO as of 2013.
Yet, Pyramyd seems to continue to sell the Beeman-branded and modeled Weihrauchs.
Are these new-old stock? Anyone know what's going on here?
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AirVenturi(Pyramyd) is the U.S. importer/dist. of the Beeman R-series HW rifles. They are new rifles. They also sell HW-branded rifles as does AoA. As for the hows-n-whys of these dealer/importer agreements i have no clue.
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AirVenturi(Pyramyd) is the U.S. importer/dist. of the Beeman R-series HW rifles. They are new rifles. They also sell HW-branded rifles as does AoA. As for the hows-n-whys of these dealer/importer agreements i have no clue.
Supposedly AOA is the exclusive distribugouger in the US. I see that a Beeman 97 at Pyramyd is 60 more than a Weihrauch 97.
Are the Beeman branded Weihrauchs from Pyramyd any different than a Weihrauch Weihrauch?
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No. Exact same gun.
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No. Exact same gun.
Quite bizarre.
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The Beeman version comes with rings. Those must be some REALLY nice rings. ;) BTW, the HW version is 559 at AoA.
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I'm not sure of the current status. At one time Beeman guns boasted a lifetime warranty. I believe Weihrauch was one year.
I think RWS / Diana is doing something similar with warranties but I don't remember which branding had the lifetime warranty.
For that matter I'm not sure if any of them currently offer a lifetime warranty.
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I'm a Krale fan for sure, where it's $420 shipped. Not sure what tto think of warranties. I'm not an open thte box and tune it ttype, but itt steems thatt every warranty issue is an opportutnity for tuning, so I am unconcerned.
I'm also reasonably sure Krale would handle warranty issues with aplomb.
Sorry, my keyboard is acitntg up.
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Thats 420 EUROS, not dollars. Based on current exch.-rate that's $500 U.S. As far as warranties, you do know they're in the Netherlands, right? I'm not touting any one seller just letting you know that you'd have to ship it back to them for warranty issues. That being said you'd probably never have to since springers are easy to fix. Just remember, Krale's prices are ALL in EUROS. Today its about $1.20 to (1) euro.
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I'm not sure of the current status. At one time Beeman guns boasted a lifetime warranty. I believe Weihrauch was one year.
I think RWS / Diana is doing something similar with warranties but I don't remember which branding had the lifetime warranty.
For that matter I'm not sure if any of them currently offer a lifetime warranty.
PA just contacted me. the Beeman version of the HW97k DOES have a lifetime warranty. The HW version is 1year. Still, 60bux is a lot for a pair of rings and a warranty you may never need.
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Thats 420 EUROS, not dollars. Based on current exch.-rate that's $500 U.S. As far as warranties, you do know they're in the Netherlands, right? I'm not touting any one seller just letting you know that you'd have to ship it back to them for warranty issues. That being said you'd probably never have to since springers are easy to fix. Just remember, Krale's prices are ALL in EUROS. Today its about $1.20 to (1) euro.
With all due respect, you are wrong. They are 318 Euro, or $380USD with shipping that converts to $40USD.
The big break coming from Europe is VAT. It knocks about 20% off of Euro pricing. After you have been at Krale's site for a while, so it figures out you are outside EU, it knocks off the VAT. Or you can put it in a cart with your address and it will knock it off.
There are a few guns that for whatever reason, AOA etc is close to Krale on pricing, but not the 77/97. IIRC Krale foots the cost of return on defective stuff.
I suppose the lifetime warranty is void if you tune it.
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On the subject of warranties, I'd be concerned that any warranty would be voided when an owner had any changes made via tuning or trigger work. For that reason, a warranty (lack of) wouldn't be a deal-breaker for me. Many of us around here are not going to leave many of the air guns we buy, completely stock.
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Thats 420 EUROS, not dollars. Based on current exch.-rate that's $500 U.S. As far as warranties, you do know they're in the Netherlands, right? I'm not touting any one seller just letting you know that you'd have to ship it back to them for warranty issues. That being said you'd probably never have to since springers are easy to fix. Just remember, Krale's prices are ALL in EUROS. Today its about $1.20 to (1) euro.
With all due respect, you are wrong. They are 318 Euro, or $380USD with shipping that converts to $40USD.
The big break coming from Europe is VAT. It knocks about 20% off of Euro pricing. After you have been at Krale's site for a while, so it figures out you are outside EU, it knocks off the VAT. Or you can put it in a cart with your address and it will knock it off.
There are a few guns that for whatever reason, AOA etc is close to Krale on pricing, but not the 77/97. IIRC Krale foots the cost of return on defective stuff.
I suppose the lifetime warranty is void if you tune it.
You're right. My bad, i was looking up a HW98 price for a friend and got it mixed-up with the 97k.
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Thats 420 EUROS, not dollars. Based on current exch.-rate that's $500 U.S. As far as warranties, you do know they're in the Netherlands, right? I'm not touting any one seller just letting you know that you'd have to ship it back to them for warranty issues. That being said you'd probably never have to since springers are easy to fix. Just remember, Krale's prices are ALL in EUROS. Today its about $1.20 to (1) euro.
With all due respect, you are wrong. They are 318 Euro, or $380USD with shipping that converts to $40USD.
The big break coming from Europe is VAT. It knocks about 20% off of Euro pricing. After you have been at Krale's site for a while, so it figures out you are outside EU, it knocks off the VAT. Or you can put it in a cart with your address and it will knock it off.
There are a few guns that for whatever reason, AOA etc is close to Krale on pricing, but not the 77/97. IIRC Krale foots the cost of return on defective stuff.
I suppose the lifetime warranty is void if you tune it.
You're right. My bad, i was looking up a HW98 price for a friend and got it mixed-up with the 97k.
No biggie. I'm a fan of Krale so I correct misinfo concerning them. With VAT, you're about right. For some weird reason, AOA is quite competitive on the 30, 35 and 98, I believe. If the price at AOA is under $500, then they are probably competiive with Krale.
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My main question when I see "lifetime Warranty" is whos lifetime?
Mine?
The guns?
The manufacturer?
or the Company that sold it to me (Not the manufacturer)?
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Are the Beeman branded Weihrauchs from Pyramyd any different than a Weihrauch Weihrauch?
Here's my take, I have a "Beeman 97K" purchased in 2007 from Straight Shooters and a "Weihrauch HW 77K" I purchased in 2016 from Krales. IMO the older Beeman 97K has a better "finish" in some aspects, and it was virtually flawless when I received it, some of the machining might be a little better. Although the spring in the Beeman broke at only 2000 shots....LOL, the rest of the rifle was really nice. I don't think mine came with rings, but the newer R1 I bought years later did come with Chinese rings that look like the UTG rings. In 2007 the Beeman 97K cost $499.99 plus shipping, but just a few years later the price went up $600 to $630.
The Weihrauch HW 77K I purchased from Krales only cost me $439 to my door in less than 4 days, most places at the time were asking $675 to $700 for the same rifles ( SE green laminate), since then I think the price has come down a "little". One thing about the newer HW's is the springs seem to be lasting longer, so maybe they're using better spring wire. I also didn't like the MIM trigger parts, really just one sear as far as I can tell. The machining on the dovetail flats have a lot of tool marks, and the stupid warnings stamped on the
rear of the receiver takes away from the finished look of the rifle as well. The 77K wasn't as flawless as the
97K but it is a nice rifle and I would buy from Krales again if I was going to get another HW. The differences
in the machining and finish is probably because of different processes used today and a effort to speed things
up to meet demand.
They're the same inside and out power plant wise, the Beeman comes as "scope only", and the 77k has open
sights which I removed anyway, and scoped it too. They're both accurate, but the Beeman 97k seems to shoot better for me and the stock is better for a scope. The 77K is good too, and the more time I spend with
it the better I like it, and I do love the green laminate stock.
Either or, they're both quality German made rifles made to last for generations, and I've been inside both of
mine several times and made them even better.
TM
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my take on the HW vs Beeman models, all of the R1 Beeman's I have purchased in the last 10yrs have been sunnen honed from the factory! I bought a new R1 carbine last year in .20cal and they are still sunnen honed! the HW models are not sunnen honed at all! so are they worth the extra money u bet ya! and as said fit and finish seem to be better on the Beeman versions, also the R9 & HW97k Beeman versions have an ambi stock/W cheek pieces on both sides! so if ur a southpaw like me that's a big plus!!! my 2ct ;D :P
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my take on the HW vs Beeman models, all of the R1 Beeman's I have purchased in the last 10yrs have been sunnen honed from the factory! I bought a new R1 carbine last year in .20cal and they are still sunnen honed! the HW models are not sunnen honed at all! so are they worth the extra money u bet ya! and as said fit and finish seem to be better on the Beeman versions, also the R9 & HW97k Beeman versions have an ambi stock/W cheek pieces on both sides! so if ur a southpaw like me that's a big plus!!! my 2ct ;D :P
I agree. The Beeman 97k I had was finished to a higher degree than my HW80 (R1) of the same vintage.
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My main question when I see "lifetime Warranty" is whos lifetime?
Mine?
The guns?
The manufacturer?
or the Company that sold it to me (Not the manufacturer)?
I used to sell furniture and this came up a LOT. In most cases a "lifetime" warranty applies to the lifetime of the original owner(with a receipt,btw). In a few cases the lifetime of the product may be a given span(15,20,30yrs, whatever). They're always grey areas and you really need to read the terms closely.
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my take on the HW vs Beeman models, all of the R1 Beeman's I have purchased in the last 10yrs have been sunnen honed from the factory! I bought a new R1 carbine last year in .20cal and they are still sunnen honed! the HW models are not sunnen honed at all! so are they worth the extra money u bet ya! and as said fit and finish seem to be better on the Beeman versions, also the R9 & HW97k Beeman versions have an ambi stock/W cheek pieces on both sides! so if ur a southpaw like me that's a big plus!!! my 2ct ;D :P
Just curious here: is there a separate assembly line/facility at HW where only Beeman-version guns are made? Do they make a run of all Beeman stuff and then a run of HW versions? I wonder if they have techs. who only build Beeman-stamped stuff?
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From experience it is not uncommon industry for a supplier to have two or more levels of quality stands for different makes of the same product.
Honda - Acura
Toyota - Infinity
Ford - Mercury - Lincoln
The same part may go on either vehicle but the higher end get the better parts out of the run.
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Well, interesting. I had not seen "current" accounts of the Beeman-branded rifles being any different in quality/finish than standard Weihrauch.
I will say this, both I and another forumner have purchased 97s from Krale (16J/12fpe models) within the last 18 months or so, and later sent them off to tuners. Neither tuner could find much wrong with either one and neither tuner recommended changing much (other guy got a delrin spring guide, just because, I got krytox). Long story short, recent Weirauch quality seems pretty good.
Thanks for all the input on what I assumed was a stale topic!
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I like these threads. If folks like us don't stay alert to what the co's are doing who will? Constantly monitoring quality and making results known to a wider audience is what we do. So far it seems that HW is still dedicated to making high quality products.