GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: Dairyboy on August 19, 2017, 03:21:31 PM
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Got my .177 Refurb Mrod in on Wednesday but I was gone until yesterday afternoon. Had a little bit of time to look it over and throw a scope on it to see how it shot. Accuracy with both 10.34 and 8.44 JSBs was pretty good in some wind. Trigger was pretty heavy and need to get that lawyer spring bent cause it's very springy. Also some genius thought they would crank the hammer spring all the way in on a .177??? Well I backed that out all the way before even shooting the gun. Horrible hammer bounce. Nonetheless for $339 I'm very happy with it! Why's that you may ask? It's about to get a make over!
Mods that this .177 will have:
WAR Cobra Valve
28gram MDS hammer
ART TSS
Hill Depinger
Various sizes of TP from .113-.187
Last but not least Custom LW .20 barrel and bolt
Only thing I didn't have was the Valve and the barrel all other things were left over from previous Mrods owned. Going to tear down the rifle tonight and install the TSS and Hammer and see how much hammer bounce I can kill and then Monday the bolt will be shipped out to Roy at Mountain Air Customs to get modded along with the barrel he is making. Not sure when I'll get this build finished but hopefully by October it'll be finished.
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Sounds like fun times ahead. I can see now why you wanted a .20 cal (.177 to .20). Looking forward to seeing the end results and I'm sure they will be awesome.
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Dillon, You've peaked my interest! ;)
Knife
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Dillon, you know where I stand on this....
Yep, I'm watching.
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Got my interest as well.
A .20 Mrod sounds like the best of both worlds in power and accuracy. Just wish there were more pellet selection in .20 cal.
Mike
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Oh, I think the JSB will work just fine.
I think this thing is gonna get downrange quite well ;)
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Yea that and AAs are what I mainly shoot so not a big deal. Does Predator make a poly mag or metal mag in .20 caliber.
Mike
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If you do it...then add in the $ to buy a "carp load" of JSB 5mm's....which is the only currently produced pellet that I can say shoots well (so long as kept to 3-digit speeds).
Think, given time and the wear and tear on the dies that produce those pellets, sooner or lather JSB is likely to stop production and weigh the choices...make new dies, support the "orphan" pellet, or use the time/effort to make hotter selling pellets ( it's not a "charity"...production s limited...likely would decide in favor of a "hotter" selling product).
But what do I know....have already seen the demise of the CP boxed 14.3's and the EunJin 23gr....along with a lot of other 5mm choices (every stop and look at number of offferings by PA in 5mm?...gets smaller and smaller each year).
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Gonna be a boatload of disappointed Sheridan collectors.... specially those Super Grade guys....
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Crosman didn't much care...they do still make that semi-slug "cylindrical" 14.3 5mm pellet (in the "black tins"), but they turn out to be hit-or-miss in most airguns. The silver "stings", "Arrows", etc. aren't missed...at best, they'd do "OK".
So far, the JSB's have stood 875-910fps in vearious PCP's without getting "stupid"...so all it 24-25 foot pounds. Not a bad place to be with nicely shaped pellets...but not something that will make .22 shooters tremble in fear..or .177 shooters using today's heavy weights look at with envy.
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Yup I ordered 14 tins of the JSBs and 2 polymags as I had a decent amount of bullseye bucks to redeem and got 10% off. 7000 pellets will probably last a good 5-10yrs for me as it won't be my main gun. I usually hunt and my .22 and .25 bullpups are perfect for that. But I do like the feel of shooting a rifle and will be shooting the .20 whenever a bullpup isn't necessary. Worse comes to worse and .20 pellets dry up for good then oh well. I know my .177 barrel is pretty accurate and I can get a drop in .22 barrel with proven accuracy also if wanted to go that route as well.
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Cool project and I look forward to reports on the finished gun.
Mrods are incredible bragains IMHO and great projects for people that enjoy tinkering.
R
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Update: I knew the .20 JSBs were backordered when I ordered them but only a week out from in stock. Today I was going to check progress and depending on how it looked finalize my order with Roy and get things rolling. Shock surprise PA pushed back arrival date to the end of September now. Sent an email to them to cancel my order. Bummer to say but at this time I'm going to hold off on the .20 build. More than likely will be buying a MMHF barrel and making it a .22. I've missed it ever since I've sold it. Bittersweet as I really wanted to do this .20 build but I've played the pre order game with PA before and there dates mean nothing and will usually be pushed back more and more,
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Unfortunate indeed..
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Bummer! Was looking forward to a .20 Marauder build.
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What's up with JSB and AA pellets being out of stock recently. Not good at all to have to put this build on hold or not at all.
Mike
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Update: I knew the .20 JSBs were backordered when I ordered them but only a week out from in stock. Today I was going to check progress and depending on how it looked finalize my order with Roy and get things rolling. Shock surprise PA pushed back arrival date to the end of September now. Sent an email to them to cancel my order. Bummer to say but at this time I'm going to hold off on the .20 build. More than likely will be buying a MMHF barrel and making it a .22. I've missed it ever since I've sold it. Bittersweet as I really wanted to do this .20 build but I've played the pre order game with PA before and there dates mean nothing and will usually be pushed back more and more,
Joe Brancado has .20's ( Air Tanks For Sale )
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Looked them up. Says in stock and a good price...until shipping :o not gonna pay $90 shipping on 12 tins of pellets.
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Give Joe a call. Something on their website screws up the shipping total. He has had to tell us that a few times. If you call you will get the actual price and they are a pleasure to deal with. Good luck and hopefully you get what you want.
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Looked them up. Says in stock and a good price...until shipping :o not gonna pay $90 shipping on 12 tins of pellets.
Last .20's I purchased came from Jeff at Trenier Outdoors ... check with him perhaps ???
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Dillon I can get you 20s for sure give me a text
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Thanks to Travis this build will stay on track. I'll be trying h&ns and polymags as well as getting some JSBs from ExpertHPA. I should now be covered on all possible .20 pellets that should work good. Getting the bolt and check on it's way to Roy tomorrow
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Got word my barrel is on its way! Got my pellets and everything else ready to go!
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been watching will continue to do so.. ;)
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Really good to see some interest in this highly underrated and almost forgotten caliber.
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very interested in how this turns out.
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Very interested in how this project turns out,wish mrod would be that cheap over here!
Always liked the .20cal
Got a great deal on a Theoben rapid yesterday and its another .20cal!
This time in a dedicated right hand stock and non regged.. €500,- no-brainer
Still have some of the old boxed crosman premiers and think these were the best.20 pellets made..
jsb comes close, predators don't fit all magazines and the shorty's are not made in .20cal, the H&N ftt are great for lower velocity settings and the barracuda is a great heavy hitter.. All except the crosman are easily available so no worries of .20cal dying out soon ::)
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I'm very excited! I should have barrel in hand by tomorrow
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Got the barrel yesterday and got it installed and shot some pellets through it this morning. Got some pics but postimage is doing maintenance so no uploads at the moment but I'm VERY happy with it and accuracy with JSBs is outstanding!! ;D
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Tell Me MORE...Dillon ! ;)
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First pic shows what he did to my .177 bolt and changed it from the oring being on the inside of barrel to on the bolt.
Second shows how he made the barrel into the single shot tray which works great by the way!
3rd is first 5 shots at 25yds with JSBs (pulled one)
4th is next 5 shots at 25yds with JSBs
This gun will be getting regulated after all with how it's performing at the moment.
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Wow....Yeawoza !! ;D ;D ;D ;D
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... and this is why I keep praising the .20.
Nice build, Dillon and fantastic results. She deserves a regulator with a group like that. Ya know if more people build more .20s, maybe enough interest can be drummed up on this, especially since production guns are still being sold in .20.
For a medium-power long shot string efficient build, I don't think the .22 or .177 are going to hit the sweet spot that a .20 can do. Hust my opinion, mind you.
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That's some awesome accuracy for a first test!!
Shame they don't make mrod magazine in .20
I know people who use crosman magazines in Theoben with some minor adjustments but can't see this working other way around..
I Like the way you made a loading tray incorporated in the barrel which should allow you to use those awkwardly long predators!
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How did I see this coming? You rocked it Dillon!!!
Someone needs put this into production !!
Congrats !
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Thanks guys! I'm very impressed with it so far. Best part is so far I've only just put the barrel in. No tune or anything yet. I planned on regulating my .22 Mrod but the reg will end up in this gun with the SS valve. Of course after I do my testing in the .22 as only those numbers really mean anything as this is a one off caliber for these guns lol
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I am impressed with the bolt work and barrel with the SS tray. Looks like it will load the pellets really straight every time unlike the mags. I like the exposed O-ring too so you can keep an eye on it and clean it. I am always just guessing whether my barrel O-ring is ok or needs lube or replacing. Nice tight groups at a decent distance also. Looking forward to your tuning...
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He he he ... yup figured that .20 would rock !!
Outstanding work on the trick barrel work .. very nice indeed.
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Great work Dillion!!!! I love the .20cal I have 11 Airguns in .20cal. Sheridans, HW's and Career Carbine. I shoot the Barracuda out of my Career Carbine great ACCUARCY and JSB out of the rest. I love the forgotten .20!! Man.......you are building a great great gun!!
Best of Luck Brother Man!!!
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Was just getting it all tuned up ready to go and looked great so far and then BOOM!!! The bolt was a 2 piece and it broke at the seam for some reason and my left ear is hurting for sure. Especially with how accurate it was shooting. Will be contacting Roy to see what he wants to do. Still love it and will be getting the bolt fixed and this gun is staying!!
Created: 09-24-2017 06:44:38 PM
Description: .20 Mrod
Notes 1: 3000psi-2100ish???
Notes 2: Reg set 1750ish
Distance to Chrono (FT): 3.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 13.730
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: 72 °F
BP: 30.01 inHG
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
47 865 22.81 11.88
46 867 22.92 11.90
45 868 22.97 11.92
44 867 22.92 11.90
43 864 22.76 11.86
42 862 22.66 11.84
41 866 22.87 11.89
40 861 22.60 11.82
39 870 23.08 11.95
38 860 22.55 11.81
37 856 22.34 11.75
36 863 22.71 11.85
35 861 22.60 11.82
34 854 22.24 11.73
33 859 22.50 11.79
32 859 22.50 11.79
31 865 22.81 11.88
30 859 22.50 11.79
29 865 22.81 11.88
28 858 22.45 11.78
27 863 22.71 11.85
26 858 22.45 11.78
25 861 22.60 11.82
24 858 22.45 11.78
23 861 22.60 11.82
22 860 22.55 11.81
21 858 22.45 11.78
20 861 22.60 11.82
19 861 22.60 11.82
18 860 22.55 11.81
17 861 22.60 11.82
16 857 22.39 11.77
15 859 22.50 11.79
14 865 22.81 11.88
13 857 22.39 11.77
12 855 22.29 11.74
11 860 22.55 11.81
10 861 22.60 11.82
9 861 22.60 11.82
8 856 22.34 11.75
7 858 22.45 11.78
6 864 22.76 11.86
5 859 22.50 11.79
4 860 22.55 11.81
3 863 22.71 11.85
2 862 22.66 11.84
1 869 23.03 11.93
Average: 861.21
StdDev: 3.68
Min: 854
Max: 870
Spread: 16
True MV: 861.51
Shots/sec: 0.08
Group Size (IN): 0.00
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Bummer on the bolt and hope the ear is ok. That is a really nice 1.84% ES tune that should keep the groups tight even long range.
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Yeah big bummer and not physically hurt but internally from the noise. No biggie though
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Typical for R&D. Looks great though.
That's an awesome string. Any future on getting a mag going?
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Seam? Was the bolt a 2 piece design? I would keep it 1 piece for the next one, or if you must 2 piece have them thread into each other. Good luck and glad you're okay!
-Matt
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Yup, keeper for sure, Dillon. And OUCH! about the ear.
I concur with Matt- either 1-piece or threaded design.
I want to see more .20 PCPs. I think this is the way to go for HPA mid-power go-getters.
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Progress is only to be had by trial and error..
Glad to hear you didn't have any major hearing damage.
Imagine such a thing happening to one of those bullpups! :o
Eager to see how it performs with the new bolt fitted.
I'll keep following your build for sure!
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Just an update the bolt and barrel are back with Roy and he's making one out of steel this time instead of the aluminum. Real excited to get this one back together and shooting!
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Got the bolt and barrel back last night! Gave the barrel a very good cleaning and am in the process of leading up the barrel but shot multiple sub MOA groups at 25yds with a variable breeze. Very happy with how it's performing. I had a 50gram MDS hammer and decided to throw in the 29gram hammer. Very nice shot. Cycle with very little spring preload as well. A joy to shoot. Have it tuned from 860-875 right now and it shoots great and quiet. Will run a full shot string when time permits but had 40 over the Chrony today with a 13fps spread (861-874) so very happy with it.
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Here's a full shot string I ran today. Accuracy is great new bolt functions perfectly. Not great on efficiency at 1.27 for the whole string but with such a low set pressure and a .140 TP I can't complain. Could I improve it? Absolutely but do I really need more than 75 shots at roughly 23fpe? Nope so will likely stay as is :D (No this gun doesn't have the SS valve in it)
Created: 10-09-2017 04:41:03 PM
Description: .20 Mrod
Notes 1: 2975-1475psi reg set 1600ish +-25psi
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 2.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 13.730
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: 68 °F
BP: 30.16 inHG
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
75 860 22.55 11.81
74 859 22.50 11.79
73 862 22.66 11.84
72 865 22.81 11.88
71 867 22.92 11.90
70 867 22.92 11.90
69 870 23.08 11.95
68 869 23.03 11.93
67 869 23.03 11.93
66 873 23.24 11.99
65 869 23.03 11.93
64 867 22.92 11.90
63 869 23.03 11.93
62 866 22.87 11.89
61 867 22.92 11.90
60 870 23.08 11.95
59 869 23.03 11.93
58 871 23.13 11.96
57 872 23.19 11.97
56 867 22.92 11.90
55 869 23.03 11.93
54 867 22.92 11.90
53 862 22.66 11.84
52 860 22.55 11.81
51 867 22.92 11.90
50 868 22.97 11.92
49 870 23.08 11.95
48 865 22.81 11.88
47 865 22.81 11.88
46 871 23.13 11.96
45 861 22.60 11.82
44 866 22.87 11.89
43 868 22.97 11.92
42 868 22.97 11.92
41 867 22.92 11.90
40 864 22.76 11.86
39 870 23.08 11.95
38 868 22.97 11.92
37 871 23.13 11.96
36 ERROR 2
35 868 22.97 11.92
34 869 23.03 11.93
33 870 23.08 11.95
32 869 23.03 11.93
31 872 23.19 11.97
30 868 22.97 11.92
29 867 22.92 11.90
28 871 23.13 11.96
27 869 23.03 11.93
26 866 22.87 11.89
25 866 22.87 11.89
24 869 23.03 11.93
23 874 23.29 12.00
22 870 23.08 11.95
21 872 23.19 11.97
20 868 22.97 11.92
19 866 22.87 11.89
18 879 23.56 12.07
17 873 23.24 11.99
16 872 23.19 11.97
15 873 23.24 11.99
14 875 23.35 12.01
13 870 23.08 11.95
12 866 22.87 11.89
11 872 23.19 11.97
10 874 23.29 12.00
9 870 23.08 11.95
8 870 23.08 11.95
7 864 22.76 11.86
6 869 23.03 11.93
5 872 23.19 11.97
4 870 23.08 11.95
3 868 22.97 11.92
2 873 23.24 11.99
1 876 23.40 12.03
Average: 868.58
StdDev: 3.68
Min: 859
Max: 879
Spread: 20
True MV: 868.78
Shots/sec: 0.10
Group Size (IN): 0.00
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Looks like you have put together a pretty nice pest control tool. ;D OK who is Roy and how to I contact him, to see if he would machine a lothar walter barrel for me to fit my SPA P-16, if I sent him both barrels? Or how every he would like to do it. ???
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OK, I got off my lazy rear ::) and reread the post from start and found the answer and sent Roy a e-mail ;)
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Thanks Dillon.... seems to have turned out just as expected.
You going to work on mags for it?
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Oh glad you found the info lol
At this time Bill no. First this barrel isn't able to use a mag with how the single shot is setup and second the single shot tray works really well for my needs so I'm happy with it.
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Good enough... I find myself using SST on all of my repeater guns when just plinking and adjusting. I like the mags when I'm patrolling the perimeter. Better than keeping a mouthful of pellets.... :-\
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Lol yeah can't say I didn't use to do that as a kid...
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Most of us probably did.
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Dillon,
You may indeed find some more shots by refining the regulators set pressure.
It is pretty darn easy to find where the sweet spot is by doing this simple test ....
* Know what speed you want with what ever pellet you wanting to shoot.
Keep the hammer & stroke settings you now have and just do some fill pressure changes.
have the guns air tank down to @ 80 bar and take few shots over the chrony ...then fill tank in @ 10 bar increments taking a few shots with every bump in pressure.
Continue to do this until your at the KNOWN set pressure of regulator.
If you see a trend in velocity where at a lower pressure than your current reg setting the velocity equals too or exceeds that of gun with higher fill & operating under the regulators influence ... YOU REGS SET TOO HIGH.
Recently I converted my RAW TM-1000 to .20 cal where it had been a .177 prior. In use with the .177 having done said test the sweet spot was 128 bar or @ 1900 psi.
Once the .20 cal was fitted it appeared and sounding as if valve was not balanced right to the pressure & decided to run the test again ...
Was actually quite shocked that the speed of my .20 pellet ( JSB 13.6 @ 800 fps ) while at 128 bar was EQUALED & Surpassed when only at 100 bar ( @ 1500 psi ) !!!
** While at 100 bar the gun was actually shooting near 860 fps, so backed off the HST ( SSG equipped ) untill velocity was back at @ 800 FPS.
Now granted we who tune with regulators need to be well aware of setting up at or just under the self regulated bell curve & this is no different ... point being made here is that with the increased AREA of the .20 over the .177 is that the efficiency in pushing an even heavier 13.6 pellet over a 10.3 was able to be done with less pressure.
You very well may find the same thing that you don't require the same reg setting with .20 that you see with a .177 when the end FT LBS power rating is still the same between both calibers.
* My gun is for Field Target use and needs to be sub 20 ft lbs.
All said & done, with less hammer strike and a lower set pressure the efficiency became MUCH better, gained a bunch of shots per fill and muzzle report fell away too.
JUST SOME FYI ....
Scott
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Wow many thanks Scott!! I will definitely be playing with it some then. Good things to know for my other guns as well.
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Just in case anyone is wondering I freaking love this gun!! Took it out today on its maiden voyage on the dairy and it is just dead on every shot!! And by that I mean 4 head shots on sparrows at around 60-65yds IN A ROW
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Those are fun shooting days for sure when you can do head shots on small birds at longer ranges. I have been there and smile for days later thinking about those shots. Glad your build turned out well!
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Just in case anyone is wondering I freaking love this gun!! Took it out today on its maiden voyage on the dairy and it is just dead on every shot!! And by that I mean 4 head shots on sparrows at around 60-65yds IN A ROW
That's awesome... Best of the .177 and .22 worlds...
congrats.