GTA
Support Equipment For PCP/HPA/CO2 and springers ,rams => Support Equipment For PCP/HPA/CO2 => Topic started by: Taso1000 on July 26, 2017, 01:04:22 AM
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Hi All,
Can anyone tell me or point me to another thread for beginners concerning what to expect, like pro's and con's, and what will the cost be for a rental nitrogen setup for filling pcp rifles?
I have a Shoebox compressor that I haven't run yet and very frequently I learn of a new issue I need to find a solution to. The last one was excessive silicone oil going through and out of the Shoebox compressor.
I really don't want to rant so that is all I am saying. I just want to weigh the reasonable options.
Thank you,
Taso
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I'd like to ride along on this one, if I may...
I have been looking at compressors and have the same fear of endless maintenance, lol..
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Sure Chickie! The more the merrier! ;D
What is annoying me is all the money I've sunk in pre and post filtration for my Shoebox. I bought everything used and way below retail if new. I almost always wait for a good price before I buy. ;)
Now I find out I have to find a solution for the Shoebox spewing out silicone oil?
That is why I am looking for nitrogen setup information.
Thanks,
Taso
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While I don't have a Nitrogen set up, I've pretty much been following everything on it. Here's what I've seen:
1) You need to go with 6000 psi Nitrogen.
2) 6K psi Nitrogen tanks are super heavy. Don't plan on moving them around.
3) You need a good regulator to get the pressure down to a usable level, and they can be quite expensive.
4) Prices for tank rental and refills (you need to have them delivered) vary all over the place, depending on where you are.
5) Depending on your usage, it could work out cheaper than buying and maintaining a compressor.
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You probably first need to determine the tank size....
(https://www.praxairdirect.com/Industrial-Gas-and-Welding-Information-Center/_images/_cylinders-tanks-and-gas-systems/high-pressure-cylinders.jpg)
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Hate to say it, but this forum is easier to search.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/search?searchterm=6000+psi+nitrogen&sort=match (http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/search?searchterm=6000+psi+nitrogen&sort=match)
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Hate to say it, but this forum is easier to search.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/search?searchterm=6000+psi+nitrogen&sort=match (http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/search?searchterm=6000+psi+nitrogen&sort=match)
Ugh.
The 'soft-porn' forum? No thanks...
The stuff they post in the 'back room' there is disgusting.
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Thank you all for the information so far. Once the nitrogen tank is delivered it will be chained to a wall and not moved by me ever. The supplier delivery guy will be the only one moving it.
I have one of those blue Ninja fill stations that was originally setup for nitrogen. I replaced the CGA 677 fitting with a CGA 347 fitting. I can put it back if I decide to go to nitrogen. I also have one of the gold body dual gauge regulators I was going to use for pcp tuning.
Scott,
Thanks for the size chart. Now when I call for quotes I will have an idea of what size they are talking about.
Doug,
It is easier to search the GTA forum like this: site:www.gatewaytoairguns.org 6000 psi nitrogen You can use any search term you wish after the .org
Thanks,
Taso
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I just called my local NAPA they do the K size "N2" tanks $100 per year lease on bottle and $45.10 per fill
But looking into this I think this is only 2200 psi not sure yet
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It is easier to search the GTA forum like this: site:www.gatewaytoairguns.org 6000 psi nitrogen You can use any search term you wish after the .org
Thanks for the tip, Taso!
I don't do business with disrespectful people or businesses...
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It is easier to search the GTA forum like this: site:www.gatewaytoairguns.org 6000 psi nitrogen You can use any search term you wish after the .org
Thanks for the tip, Taso!
I don't do business with disrespectful people or businesses...
I have not verified if it will work with all search engines but it definitely works in Chrome and Google search.
Sorry,
Taso
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Works great on my laptop running Safari with Google...
Thanks!!!
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How far will I get I just received a quote for 482cuft. tank 6000psi Nitrogen $60.00 a year lease $98.00 fill.
So say on the Varmint going 2000 to 3000 psi what kind of shot count would this come to. I am thinking of using SCBA tanks to cascade with.
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Okay found a air tank calculator and it looks like I will get at least 20,000 shots with this setup. Seems pretty good @ $.0079 per shot
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Bear in mind that you can't pack as much air (Nitrogen) into 6000 psi as Boyle's "Law" (for ideal gasses) would have you think.... The tank takes less Nitrogen to fill from 3000 psi to 6000 than from 0-3000, by about a third.... If your calculations are for an ideal gas, and you figure 20,000 shots from 6000psi down to 3000, you will actually only get about 13,000....
Bob
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Bear in mind that you can't pack as much air (Nitrogen) into 6000 psi as Boyle's "Law" (for ideal gasses) would have you think.... The tank takes less Nitrogen to fill from 3000 psi to 6000 than from 0-3000, by about a third.... If your calculations are for an ideal gas, and you figure 20,000 shots from 6000psi down to 3000, you will actually only get about 13,000....
Bob
I just quickly used the Airgun tank fill calc @ AOA. tank is 482 cuft. pressure 6,000 psi so I inserted 5800psi and 450cuft into the calc. using a 120cc tank going from 2000 to 3000. Take that number multiply by 30 figuring most guns will get a 30 shot count or better.
Now maybe my thinking is off, if it is let me know please
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Well in most cases (not all), the tank CF rating is reduced by the welding gas supply company on tanks that are filled over 3000 psi, to take into account the VanDerWaals correction that is necessary over 3000 psi.... I have not seen any airgun calculator that is sophisticated enough to take it into account, most of them were made when 3000 psi was about as high a pressure as we were using.... You calculations are probably not off as much as I suggested, but the fact remains that there is only about 2/3rds as much volume (mass) of air in a tank between 3000 - 6000 psi as between 0 - 3000 psi.... so people using the airgun fill calculators currently available (including the Sikes one) may be surprised to not get the number of fills they were expecting to.... That was my only point....
Bob
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Only one solution if you go with nitrogen route, gas booster!
You can drain that tank so much lower. No point in paying to fill almost full tank. IMO.
Marko
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Only one solution if you go with nitrogen route, gas booster!
You can drain that tank so much lower. No point in paying to fill almost full tank. IMO.
Marko
Please explain I will be using a 480cuft 6000 psi bottle to a SCBA 4500 psi 88cuft to my Benjamin bottle to my pcp. using the SCBA as a cascade to stretch out the gas a bit. What is gas booster?
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just looked up nitrogen booster and if I were to do that I would just buy a HPA compressor for that price.
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You guys live in the US, surely there are affordable boosters out there, new and used. Paintball boosters to be exact.
Land of hope and glory, and very big market for used stuff.
Just saying.
Marko
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You guys live in the US, surely there are affordable boosters out there, new and used. Paintball boosters to be exact.
Land of hope and glory, and very big market for used stuff.
Just saying.
Marko
Marko
I will look into it, and I do thank you for the suggestion
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The Altaros booster made in Czechoslovakia could be made to work. Run the mechanism with compressed air and feed the hp compressor side with regulated nitrogen.
Taso
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Alratos confirmed to me that can be done, to boost either Nitrogen or Helium to 4500 psi to fill whatever tank or gun you wish.... You simply have to disconnect the air inlet to the first stage from the air that powers the compressor, and feed the first stage inlet with a regulator.... That allows you to use your Nitrogen or Helium tank down to 150 psi or so, instead of only 3000 psi.... doubling the amount of Nitrogen for the price you pay.... Of course you still have to buy the Altaros booster....
Bob
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thanks Bob for the info
I will start off and see how much nitrogen I go thru, and how fast
I will keep you posted when all is set up
All I gotta say you guys are great enablers lol