GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Diana Airguns => Topic started by: Rattosaurus on July 25, 2017, 11:14:59 PM
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I ordered a Diana/Rws 350 Magnum from Airgunsofarizona. It came in yesterday, beautiful but minus the pellets. I had ordered the only pellet I could find that was recommended by a notable reviewer. It was recommended for a a slightly different model. (BBpelltpratire, JSB Heavy)
I'm using what pellets I have to break it in it isn't showing any promise.
Any recommendations?
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This a very complicated question. There is no one "best" pellet that you can choose reliably. I did tests with a large number of pellets both lead and non-lead in my RWS 54 and my FWB 300. The RWS 54 is in the same power category as the RWS 350 but has differences in the recoil control mechanism.
My personal prejudices and extensive testing lead me to say:
1. Choose a LEAD pellet in the 10gr weight range that will give a velocity in the 800-900f/s range in a .177 rifle. They penetrate 3/4" of soft pine and bulge the back of a 3/4" marine plywood. Full penetration on every critter shot thus far 400 Chipmunks and a few birds!!
2. AVOID any pellet that is near or above the speed of sound ( approximately 1150f/s) Don't buy into the 1400f/s claims of some manufacturers - they are less than helpful.
3. AVOID NON-LEAD pellets as they are harder than lead pellets and sometimes have trouble sealing and can be inconsistent in performance. Unless there are environmental requirements or laws that require you to do so.
4. AVOID Plastic - Metal composite pellets. The composite pellets can BURN the plastic in the barrel leaving a black residue in the bore that is hard to remove and may not be good for a delicate constitutions. They generally are less accurate than the boring old lead ones.
5. H&N pellets have done well in my testing. They seem to be very consistent in quality and construction.
6. There are sampler kits available that have a selection of pellets (some from a single manufacturer (like H&N and RWS.) One on-line marketer (straight shooters.com) prepares and sells sample kits of 25 each of up to 18 different pellets for your testing pleasure.
7. Some find that round or dome headed pellets are more accurate and stable out to 50yds or so. Wad-cutter and Hollow points don't seem to do as well in longer range shooting.
All that being said: My RWS 54 prefers Beeman Kodiak Match 10.6gr pellets. Consistently group less than .35" at 25yds - boringly so. I recently shot 0.9 and 1.1" 5 shot groups at 50yds in real life conditions of pesky crosswinds. At 100yds the group was about 5." with a drop of 44inches!!!
Look at the note referenced below. There is a PDF of over 100 tests with different pellets with both rifles. It is NOT an exhaustive test as there are more pellets available than you can imagine.
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=124648.msg1217098#msg1217098 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=124648.msg1217098#msg1217098)
These are results at 50&n 100yds.
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=124648.msg1267030#msg1267030 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=124648.msg1267030#msg1267030)
Have fun!!
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Dave has some good information. I've never shot a 350 but I think it has just a tad more power than my 48.
My 48 seems to like JSB Exact in 8.44 and H&N Sniper Mediums. It's not too bad with H&N FTT in 4.52. Although my older Dianas like the RWS Super Domes, the 48 doesn't like them at all.
In short, the gun gets to pick the pellet, though I suspect the 350 is a bit much for .177 - even though that's what my 48 is.
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Thanks DT, That was fast, you responded before the stirfry was out of the pan. (In this case we can leave the Supersonic buffeting lesson out, I've already been to that school.
I should add that my RWS is far from broken in, less then a half a tin of pellets through it. However, it doesn't seem to like any of the pellets that I have. My Hatsan 100x doesn't like the H@N Barracudas and the 350 mag, thus far, seems to be agreeing with that. I was hopeful that it would like the H@N Barracuda Hunter's but it doesn't. As usual, the Gamo 10.? pellets look really pretty and expensive in the tin but all over the place. Like you, I'm using a 50ft target and expect a high end air rifle to be able to qualify for any local shooting match.
The reviewer recommended the JSB Heavy, he had found it best for "ALL RWS RIFLES."
Add Beeman Kodiak match 10.6 to the list.
Oh, BTW. Hunting raccoons and pigs with an air rifle is legal in The State of Florida .... and yes, I have plenty of both. (In this country an air rifle should have enough power to make an exit wound.)
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I have a real problem with GAMO and its claims for both its pellets and rifles I have two friends who really really got suckered in when they bought them. If you look through the list, most didn't fare well in my tests.
Remember high power rifles can have real hold sensitivity issues. Hence my choice of the 54.
What kind of stir fry? Alligator or Burmese Python?
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Try and find a pellet that needs just a little nudge to fit flush. Did you scrub the barrel? Is the leade at an angle? Push a pellet through with a rod and feel for the tight and smooth parts. Is there a nic near the muzzle?
Lots to do... 8)
-Y
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Took me a while to find the PDF you mentioned. It appears at the bottom of the post.
I'm trying to avoid taking this one apart. It seems every rifle that I come by, brand new or otherwise, needs to be taken apart...needs to be recrowned, needs the barrel lapped, needs the trigger honed and polished...and they all a need all of that sticky grease gotten out of there before it dries up into glue.
I shot about a hundred more pellets through it this morning, it's still chucking the barracudas into about a silver dollar at 50ft, which is a usable hunting gun, but hardly a good one. (My local Walmart doesn't stock the Crosman 10.5gr, so, I'm pretty much stuck with mail order.) Since I get stuck for over $10sh, every place I go, your recommendations are useful. When I look down the barrel between shots, I can still see a brown haze of burnt grease.
Airgunsofarizona marked the pellets as "backorder". I e-mailed, like ever business school PHD I do buisness with nowadays, "backorder" seems to mean they will hold on to my credit card number and use it to fix their bookkeeping. Which, I guess means I should email them to cancel the order...(I really enjoy playing poker with the other players hand in my pocket at all times.)....which means, that three months from now I will be getting a notification from the bank that they used it anyhow.
Oh, and, amazingly enough, alligators are VERY protected species in Florida as well as sharks. The Florida game laws are written like a boobie trap....their regulations page is titled in bolt print what species you are allowed to take, then a bunch of misc fine print then a long list of different species OF THE ANIMALS YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO TAKE. (I really wanted to go shark hunting with a spot light at night, with my crossbow....nope, they decided that we might run out of sharks.)
Stirfry? Well, I manged not to burn the rice this time...Whatever they have marked down at the local Gulf Of Mexico, they have convenient outlets everywhere. (Think I'll grease the crossbow up.)
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Joe,
Next vacation go snakehead hunting on the Potomac. ;D
It is a terribly invasive species that deserves to be eradicated.
Bring your crossbow, it is a little like spear fishing above the water... :-*
-Y
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I also just received my AoA D350/.177. I'm breaking it in with my go to pellet, CPM 10.5gr in the brown box. Getting around 920 FPS avg for +/- 20 FPE. Just shooting with the iron sights so far (these are tricky sights, hard to get a good sight picture for me). Happy with this pellet so far, will try others soon. IMHO, a 9 or 10gr pellet is about the minimum for this rifle.
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I really recommend the STRAIGHTSHOOTERS.COM sampler pack. Craig is very knowledgeable and has a host of information on his site about the rifles, pellets, tests of many many pellets for velocity and energy. Look up your 350 and find the OUR TAKE article that gives information on their test results without the advertising blather that often is found in reviews. He also has a series of useful articles about air rifle subjects - again no BS. I just read their comments on the 350. Says it is the most powerful .177 with energies in the 21-22fpe range. Says it is a good hunting choice but not so good as a target gun. They saw velocities of near 1100f/s with some pellets. This may limit accuracy a bit. Said it was best with heavier pellets. Could have recoil and hold issues. Suggest you give that article a good read! Lots of pellets tested.
For about $25 plus shipping you can get a bunch of different pellets to test without a huge investment. His little box has either 18 or 24 cubbies chock full of different manufacturer pellets. Current pack has a couple Green (no lead) pellets at around 6 gr with the top weight being around 11 (if my memory hasn't failed me yet!) Several in the 10-11 range that should put you around 900f/s. Saves a bunch and guessing at which pretty box you should buy. MY personal prejudice is NO GAMO anything!!! I spent over $200 for non-lead pellets because they weren't available in sampler packs. Some were as much as $15/hundred. Over the years I probably have spent $400 or so on pellets - most of which are serving as a bookend in my workshop.
Some suggested cleaning the bore as they come pretty gunked up sometimes. AMEN!!! a .17 caliber rod and some bronze or brass brushes would be helpful too. I cleaned mine when I got it and then after the non=lead tests over 6 years later with a few thousand pellets in between. the first cleaning was probably unnecessary as I bought it used. Accuracy has been good all along.
Pellet consistency in the box is sometimes not too good too. That can be a bugger also. I went through the exercise of weighing and measuring but found I am not good enough to be that sophisticated.
Cheers
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Joe,
I bet you have a burr in the rifling. ??? Wouldn't take much to run a brass brush down the barrel 20 times or so. :D Preferably With JB-non embedding bore paste.
You do not even need to take the stock off..... ;)
-Y
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A couple more thoughts on pellets for your 350 Mag.
I forgot to mention in my discourse on pellet selection that I have not had much success with the copper coated "Gold" style pellets. They feel harder to the pinch test and when directly compared to their lead only counterpart seem to perform more poorly.
Another to try to take advantage of your high power rifle is the H&N Rabbit Magnum. It weighs nearly 16 grains and is designed for hunting. It looks very much like a somewhat smaller 22 short bullet. My RWS 54 didn't work well with it because if may have been too long for the chamber and the 17fpe of my 54 wasn't quite enough for it. I only had a few pellets (25 or so) so didn't get to really test it.
The JSB Monster at 13+GR might be another choice to look at. Straightshooters show a mv of about 800f/s for that heavy pellet.
It might be a choice for your more powerful rifle. It should do quite well in the wind but might be a bit slower.
Cheers
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Thanks for the suggestions guys, that's what we came her to do. (Crosman 10.5 added by Packad8, who's gun is still smoking from all of that winding up of the mainspring. You may find the fix of the irons lest expensive on Amazon as a Williams Dovetale peep, a peep tends to act as a lens...the different sight blade set, I already asked at AOA, they ran me around and promised the world and then forgot what they were doing. Wierauch used the same globe sight, but dont toss that rear sight out, it's an extinct species that improved on the previous inferior Dinosaur.)
Somebody for AirgunsOfArizona may be reading our stuff because they emailed me back...offering a free tin of pellets for my trouble(usually I'll get a bill for it and the additional shipping anyhow.) but, I will add that the rifle is still on sale for $199 + their outrageous shipping $30...and I should add...
HOW IMPORTANT A THE CORRECT BALANCE IS TO A SPRING GUN! I took the test scope off my Cometa and all the pellets suddenly decided that 3/4" was good enough and then I mounted the scope on the RWS 350 magnum and it suddenly chopped a 3/8 hole with four Barrcudas in my 50ft target with one flyer, and inch out of the group...and then...since my Scope was made in China by Chineese people working for the Turkish people the one flyer was attributed to the chincy scope mount flying off the gun...sooo....it's does NEED a scope, but it need it for the weight of the scope. The only way to get that thing, or any magnum springer to recoil in a strait line, is to add a counterweight to the top of the gun, which could be a brick that was made in Czechoslovakia by Korean people...
I'll let you guys know when I have better info. Thanks again.
Oh, no fishing today..had company stop by,then the tide came in. Don't these people understand anything about the importance of fishing with 185lb cams?
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Don't mess around with the mounts that everyone spends tinkering with. Order a RWS droop compensated single piece lock down mount and don't look back. Had one on my 54 since day one. Scope has never moved or done anything bad... I have two, one in 30mm and the other in 1". Both are great.
Hector Medina - an RWS super expert! - recently put a long paragraph on this site (search on his posts) about how to install a scope mount so it won't do anything but hold the scope in the same place forever. I am in awe of his methods! He competes at the highest levels in field target with an RWS54. His thoughts translate well to any air rifle!! He uses the RWS ZR base that recoils and returns to zero. They help keep your scope from breaking. He modifies them so they are super precise. Check out his blog - google- Hector Medina. He also hangs out on this site but recently moved and may be less active right now.
I had a relatively inexpensive used RWS 3-12x scope on mine for 6 years I and I don't know how long it was in use before that. It finally got a loose lens illness last year so I replaced it with a Hawke (see particulars in my signature.)
Final by the way: I have read a lot of comments about AOA in the past 7-8 years - not many highly positive. Knowledge level not what you would hope, sending refurbished rifles as new, etc. I have no personal experience with them. I use Pyramyd or Straightshooters (first choice) for most of my on-line stuff. Occasionally Midway when they happen to have something I can use.
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Final by the way: I have read a lot of comments about AOA in the past 7-8 years - not many highly positive. Knowledge level not what you would hope, sending refurbished rifles as new, etc. I have no personal experience with them. I use Pyramyd or Straightshooters (first choice) for most of my on-line stuff. Occasionally Midway when they happen to have something I can use.
This is the forth rifle I've bought from AoA. The first was an HW95 that arrived with a dent in the stock. Looked like it came from the factory that way as it was under the finish. I called AoA and they had a replacement on the way that same day, plus a prepaid shipping label for the return. Most places would wait for receipt of the original, AoA trusted me and shipped the replacement right out. They even called the next week to confirm that the replacement was OK. First rate service in my book.
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I reported what I have seen reported by others.
If your experience is great then great! One more to the good side.
AS I said, I haven't used them personally.
Dave
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Well, I did figure that Gatewaytoairguns needed this post when I put it up.
For one thing "magnum spring guns" got their BAD reputation from the RWS 350 and that is part of the reason why I wanted one. In the day before Beeman decided that their catalog was too pretty to be giving away for free....the general consensus of the most powerful gun in the book was, "Beautiful gun but impossible to shoot correctly.", "Beautiful gun but impossible to get the pellet to work." with the occasional "Well, I can shoot it." and for the most part.....if everybody stopped quoting catalog salesmen long enough for them to realize that they were quoting catalog salesmen....you could buy a really nice center fire rifle for that kind of money and not have the problems with buying parts and ammunition from Europe.
So, here is my early conclusion (Scope is still broke, so I havn't actually tested this out). I grew up about firteen miles from the Remington Ilion plant, so I had a few teachers:
The terms, "Target gun" and "Match grade" tend to get abused a lot. Without abusing the terminology any competitive match grade target rifle has be able to both pass the inspection process as well have the capacity to actually win. Any correctly made beginner's competition rifle will need to have the center of the barrel bore located within a half an inch of the rifles central moment and any such rifle should have the capacity of having its point of central moment modified to fit the shooter. That is quoting one of my teachers from long ago, he was talking about Rimfire rifle.
So, one thing the RWS 350 needs is way to attach a sling...other than that, the "problem with the Magnum springer" becomes pretty obvious. "Central Moment" is a term used in both physics and ballistics and what it means is that I took the RWS 350 Magnum, laid it down on a table and tried to balance it on a rubber handled screwdriver....then I took the "Strait line drawn down the rifle's bore and replace it with "a strait line drawn down the rifles piston" and what happens is that my 3x9x40mmAO scope is too light for the rifle. (the same scope is pretty much the perfect weight for the Cometa)
Now, assuming we have all watched the reviews of the RWS 350 magnum, the catalog salesman shows up for work, again....and reviews the gun with a super high scope mount and then recommends another...but overall I think this forum is probably the only fix that will work, nobody ever could afford a gunsmith that was that good...
Aigunsofarazona still hasn't made up my mind of what to do about them, but I will be looking for a much heavier 50mm scope and STEEL rings....only because a) I'm a poor guy and b) the correct fix of raising both iron sights another inch and a half above the barrel and recutting the stock was RWS' job and they didn't show up for the shooting match. And well, if their bb gun salesman thinks I really want to spend any more of my time on him, I'll leave the BB gun in the box and fix my lawnmower instead.
More importantly this post is as titled and I'm sure it will me needing more and more readers::: Still looking for pellet recommendations and criticisms for the .177 RWS/Diana 350 Magnum.
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To add to your critique of the design of most air rifles, my pet peeve is the so-called droop. As you note, for the price of these guns, one thinks that RWS and other "high" quality air rifles could made a barrel that lines up with the receiver. I don't shoot break-barrels because of that. I been told straight-faced that air rifles are such a small part of the business that they can't afford to do this! BS, I have $50 powder rifles that manage to do it very easily - as do your friends from Remington for much less expensive rifles. And yes, I know about the methods of barrel straightening used in firearms.
A second issue with break barrels - you use the barrel to cock it by bending it down!! Eventually, there must be some permanent bend left in the barrel. Apparently not much as zillions of pellets have been shot through them and they have been cocked zillions of times with no one regularly reporting damage.
My personal opinion is that most droop is caused by the very short ranges and the large scopes used. As noted, I have a droop corrected base on my 54 now. However, when testing other bases - not droop corrected - I didn't see much difference in the scope settings.
Many shooters spend huge amounts of effort trying to get the rifles to line up with their sights (scopes) to the extent that some bend the barrels to accomplish that. More power to them, it that is what is needed to get the rifle to shoot to the desired point of impact.
Air gunners mount BIG scopes that are difficult to focus at the short distances that they need, and sit so high above the bore that zeroing to give a decent POINT BLANK zone is nearly impossible. They use the adjustable objective / turret parallax as both a focus and range finder. Weight and height are both issues here. I use the smallest (!) scope that I can and mount them as close to the bore as I can get them. I am not happy yet with the Hawke scope and bases on my 54 as I would like lower ones but this is the best compromise I have at the moment. (about 10 sets of rings have been tried that live in the drawer now and with 3 or 4 different scopes too.) Finally gave up and went the combination below.
Ballistics is another. The low velocities and light weight pellets give an exaggerated ballistic arc. Example, my RWS 54 initially zeroed at 17 yds is also dead on at 50yds but the pellet dropped 44" between 50 and 100yds - my measurements - not calculations!!
The reason I like air rifles is that they give the same kind of challenge of long range rifle shooting in a backyard instead of a 1000 yd range. My analogy is that the difficulty is multiplied by about 10. Shooting 10yds/m is like 100yds/m. 50yds = 500yds; 100yds=1000yds.
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Responding to DT (Dave Thomas Ohio)
I agree with all of that, usually. I've owned a lot of centerfire and 22LR rifles over the years but of note.... I used to have a Browning Micro Medallion, Japan model, 7mm-08 it was a really tiny little package of whuhpsome with a Hammer forged barrel. I intended as my backpacking rifle and I wanted iron sights on it but, after I had purchased it, the gunsmith told me that the barrel was so thin that he couldn't drill/tap it and was so perfect he wouldn't solder a sight to it so....after it tried making sights for it and the realized that my eyes wern't goo enough to see antlers anyhow.. I wound up with a scope....the scope I settled on was the tiniest little Leopold 1x4 and the mounts were also Leopold.
Now, one of the reasons why I chose the Browning as my backpacking rifle was that the barrel was free floated...the Remington Model Seven looks free floated but isn't and, my backpacking style, with 6 million acres of Adirondack mountains to get lost in, usually involved waking up to find all of you're equipment covered with a thin sheet of ice. I still prefer the thick brush as far away from other hunters as possible...
.....well, the scope mounting was what I considered at the time as "no brainer." The long time favored method of mounting a scope to the top of a center fire rifle receiver with tow piece mounts and four case hardened grade 8 hex screws and at the correct height so that you're eye lines up with the scope immediately....... always was the only way to go. That was a wonderful and pretty little 7lb rifle.
Well, the next year I found a gun broker who had "accidentally" ordered a Browning 22lr bolt action regular grade. He said $200 with the rings and I walked out the door with it. Except for the trimmings the two rifles were pretty near identical and I blew another two hundred on the matching scope for it. The one difference between the to was the rings, the rings he had ordered with the .22lr were dovetail and the arbitrary "medium height". However, If one were to look at the receiver closely enough, it was also drilled and tapped for tow piece mounts.
Now, if you want to solve "the problem", I'm sure... (you can get that rifle in just about any 308 based caliber)... you can simply ask Leopold, they used to have a hotline just for scope mounts and I know they make bases that are designed to be machined by your gunsmith. And the tap, screws and drill bit are actually pretty standardized in the USA. Now if you think about how pretty that is and how but ugly the "Weaver rail" is.
Barrel droop: Well, after they machine the barrel and the breech they hand fit the two.... over in fantasy land...and then they bolt the thing in a fixture and drill the hinge bolt...also in fantasy land...in the real world, you get it. (Bending a barrel a little bit like that usually has no effect on the accuracy of the rifle and saving forty buck by putting a few pieces of soda can inside the scope mount has always worked well too. You can actually buy adjustable mounts for 1000yd centerfire, if you have deep enough pockets.)
Thanks for the chat...
{
my JSB Exact heavys are still a no show. This is where I end up with two tins of the wrong pellets and mysterious credit card charges...three months from now...because management' college education didn't want to stick with there invoice price and pay their own 3x markup on shipping charges. Usually the will come in two weeks after the charge shows up on the card, USPS and will be smashed all to *(&^, so I have to pay shipping a few more times.
}
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Most of my issues with big scopes and short ranges start with geometry. Manufacturing tolerances are secondary but important. As you note, getting a barrel and action perfectly straight with one another is a difficult thing and unexpected by anyone except the most anal of personalities (ME?) Tolerances are why we have adjustable scopes to correct for the MINOR ones. MY beef is with the ones that are so bad that a scope can't be adjusted enough to get the rifle zeroed a the short ranges. Hence the need for droop compensated mounts.
The reason we work on guns is to have fun and learn things. There are as many theories as their are people.
The big scopes, short ranges, sensitive parallax adjustments, ballistic arc corrections etc. keep us boys off the streets and out of the bars. Also give us a place to spend the 401k that the our children are lusting after...
All the discussion is instructive and sometimes helpful.
Nice story on the rifles and scopes. As a matter of interest, I was starting a grandson out in shooting last night with the same 22 that his father learned on 35 years ago. I had put a "better" scope on it because I had a spare hand-me-down. The boy did well for the first time but I noticed he wasn't getting his cheek on the stock at all. So later today, I will go dig around my scope box to find the one I took off (a 4x original Weaver) and will put it back on...
As for straight actions, barrels, etc. There is a custom manufacturer of bench rest rifles (Kelby) about 40 miles from me. If I truly get anal, I might go after one of his. His are straight!! A friend just passed away who had a Kelby with 7 barrels and three bolts! I might see if Kelby (who is selling it for the estate) can make a semi-reasonable deal.
Cheers!
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Good discussion here. I will contribute what little I can. As far as sling mounting, I used a set designed for lever action centerfire and connected the magazine tube mount onto the barrel. The one I ordered was one size too big but I shimmed with aluminum soda can and all is well. I've taken it on 3 and 4 hour squirrel hunts with no issues. As far as ammo, I would definitely suggest buying one tin each of the H&N Barracuda hunter (they come in 3 or 4 head sizes IIRC). Your rifle will tell you which one it likes best. Mine is a .22 so I don't have any insight as to which one might work best except to say that of the 3 Dianas I have owned ( all in .22 cal) they all preferred ammo in the middle to large head sizes (5.53-5.54). And yes, the 350 has a bad rep and the 48 IMO is easier to learn, but the 350 is worth the trouble. It's a fine rifle. Good luck with yours. ;D
https://www.pyramydair.com/brands/haendler-natermann/ammo?mid=7&pid=109 (https://www.pyramydair.com/brands/haendler-natermann/ammo?mid=7&pid=109)
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Thanks LAalex
I used to have a similar barrel band on my Diana 36, it did work well, had a removable swivel and was available in American 1" width...but it wasn't designed for an air rifle. I was hoping, with a $500 dollar air rifle as the subject somebody would have come up with something that was from the factory.
You'll notice that it tends to limit the amount of sling pressure you can muster up on the thing.
The H@N Barracudas, I 'm having technical difficulties with my scope(and the weather), but I was having a problem with them in a different rifle and something for us all to watch out for. The Barricudas should be the best of my pellets, (The BC is high: Cudos downrange wappp!) but when I tested them it was neck and neck until I moved the target to thirty yards...when I moved the target to thirty yards the H@N barracudas, which were chewing a nice jagged little hole in my 20yd target were suddenly key-holing and tumbling all over the paper....(which, I assume means that my barrel wasn't spinning them fast enough. Hatsan 100x, I think it's about 20ftlbs, I don't have a chrony and it's down for a broken mainspring.)...
so, The H@N Barracudas may work great through my 350, if they do or not I'll post it here...but in the meantime, I'm stuck in the land of cheap broken aluminum scopemounts until I find something made out of steel that I like...(Saltwater territorys, galvanics)
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Thanks LAalex
I used to have a similar barrel band on my Diana 36, it did work well, had a removable swivel and was available in American 1" width...but it wasn't designed for an air rifle. I was hoping, with a $500 dollar air rifle as the subject somebody would have come up with something that was from the factory.
You'll notice that it tends to limit the amount of sling pressure you can muster up on the thing.
The H@N Barracudas, I 'm having technical difficulties with my scope(and the weather), but I was having a problem with them in a different rifle and something for us all to watch out for. The Barricudas should be the best of my pellets, (The BC is high: Cudos downrange wappp!) but when I tested them it was neck and neck until I moved the target to thirty yards...when I moved the target to thirty yards the H@N barracudas, which were chewing a nice jagged little hole in my 20yd target were suddenly key-holing and tumbling all over the paper....(which, I assume means that my barrel wasn't spinning them fast enough. Hatsan 100x, I think it's about 20ftlbs, I don't have a chrony and it's down for a broken mainspring.)...
so, The H@N Barracudas may work great through my 350, if they do or not I'll post it here...but in the meantime, I'm stuck in the land of cheap broken aluminum scopemounts until I find something made out of steel that I like...(Saltwater territorys, galvanics)
I spend 6 months, and some of my airguns spend all year, in a harsh marine environment. That is what the boat people call it. ;)
How do you store your guns? I put mine in a silicon gun sleeve and then in a soft case...
-Y
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Thanks LAalex
I used to have a similar barrel band on my Diana 36, it did work well, had a removable swivel and was available in American 1" width...but it wasn't designed for an air rifle. I was hoping, with a $500 dollar air rifle as the subject somebody would have come up with something that was from the factory.
You'll notice that it tends to limit the amount of sling pressure you can muster up on the thing.
The H@N Barracudas, I 'm having technical difficulties with my scope(and the weather), but I was having a problem with them in a different rifle and something for us all to watch out for. The Barricudas should be the best of my pellets, (The BC is high: Cudos downrange wappp!) but when I tested them it was neck and neck until I moved the target to thirty yards...when I moved the target to thirty yards the H@N barracudas, which were chewing a nice jagged little hole in my 20yd target were suddenly key-holing and tumbling all over the paper....(which, I assume means that my barrel wasn't spinning them fast enough. Hatsan 100x, I think it's about 20ftlbs, I don't have a chrony and it's down for a broken mainspring.)...
so, The H@N Barracudas may work great through my 350, if they do or not I'll post it here...but in the meantime, I'm stuck in the land of cheap broken aluminum scopemounts until I find something made out of steel that I like...(Saltwater territorys, galvanics)
What is the head size of the barracudas you are using--it should be printed on a tag on the bottom of the tin. In my experience this measurement has been crucial.
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My experience with the 340-N-tec had been that it like medium to larger head sizes. Do not know if the same is true with the 350? :-\
-Y
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As I mentioned earlier, that has been my experience. However, many members have posted that their Dianas like JSB pellets and those are listed at 5.52 head size and in fact my 48 shoots JSB very well(it shoots almost everything very well). So it just depends on the individual rifle. You could have two barrels that come off the line one after another that prefer different ammo. Nature of the beast.
Cheers,
Scotty
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Update: After about 150-200 shots the D350 is settling in and loosening up. Now shooting the Brown Box CPM 10.5's at 949.6 avg FPS, 20.9 ES, 7.8 SD for 21 FPE. I'd like the ES & SD to tighten up, we'll see after a few hundred more shots. Also tired the H&N Medium Snipers, they group pretty tight but about an inch higher than the CPM's, didn't adjust the scope as I'll stick with the CPM's.
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Packard8:
What is CPM abbreviation for? Crosman Premier Magnum????
That should be a good combination for distance shooting.
My 54 at 865f/s zeroed at 17 works well out to 50yds (1" groups there!) with the Kodiak Match 10.6gr nominal diameter.
BTW: I used to live in Tulsa - worked for Amoco at 41st & Yale from 77 to about 94 with a break in Chicago for 4 years.
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Packard8:
What is CPM abbreviation for? Crosman Premier Magnum????
That should be a good combination for distance shooting.
My 54 at 865f/s zeroed at 17 works well out to 50yds (1" groups there!) with the Kodiak Match 10.6gr nominal diameter.
BTW: I used to live in Tulsa - worked for Amoco at 41st & Yale from 77 to about 94 with a break in Chicago for 4 years.
Yes Dave, Crosman Premier Magnum. I look for them on sale in the brown box of 1250, they seem to be more consistent than the tins or milk cartons....or maybe just my imagination?... ;). They are a good all-round pellet and not too pricey when you catch them on sale. They also shoot well in my D52/.177, you might try them in your 54, but looks like the Kodiaks are working well for you.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FEUUF6?tag=amz-mkt-chr-us-20&ascsubtag=1ba00-01000-org00-def00-other-nomod-us000-pcomp-feature-pcomp-wm-2-wm-3-wm-1-wm-1-wm-1-wl-ask0&ref=bit_pcomp (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FEUUF6?tag=amz-mkt-chr-us-20&ascsubtag=1ba00-01000-org00-def00-other-nomod-us000-pcomp-feature-pcomp-wm-2-wm-3-wm-1-wm-1-wm-1-wl-ask0&ref=bit_pcomp)
I don't think Amoco is still at that location, maybe moved to Houston like many other petro corporations?
John
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yes, Amoco moved and gave it to U of OK for their Med school in Tulsa.
Regarding the brown box with large numbers of pellets. NCED, who sometimes shows up here, has said in past posts that he buys brown boxes of pellets because they apparently come from the same die for the whole box while tins are frequently mixtures. ED if you see this please chime in and correct me!!
During some of the tests that I reported on, I found a tin that clearly had a mixture of two batches. Their average was true 0.5gr different. I don't remember exact numbers but say something like 7.3gr and 7.8gr. They would also show two groups about a 1/2" apart. I also don't remember which manufacturer but you get the idea.
If you want to be truly confused, weighing and measuring pellets is a whole different discipline. If you want to get into that, be aware that the powder scales that most use are barely adequate with resolutions of 0.1gr. I have a Gem scale that resolves to 0.02gr reliably. I used a set of Starrett micrometers for measuring but again found them barely adequate for the task. I have calibration weights from an old analytical balance in my collection of weird junk and a new set of calibration weights that I purchased. They showed that the powder scale was linear but not too sensitive while the Gem scale was more linear and more sensitive.
Example with the powder scale , I weighed 100 pellets separately into 10.2, 10.3, 10.4, 10.5, 10.6, 10.7, 10.8 gr. (that is 10.2 to 10.29 in one bin etc. The tin weight was 10.6gr.
I weighed each group separately, expecting something between 10.2 and 10.3 for that batch. etc. The average for all batches came out around 10.35gr. Weighing 100 random pellets from the tin gave the 10.35number again. From that I concluded that the scale wasn't quite good enough. Not that they all weighed the same.
With the Gem scale, I did better but still got an average of 10.3+ for the batch. I got tighter averages that the powder scale but still not consistent enough to suit me.
Given all that, I decided to worry about that tomorrow and just shoot!!
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yes, Amoco moved and gave it to U of OK for their Med school in Tulsa.
Regarding the brown box with large numbers of pellets. NCED, who sometimes shows up here, has said in past posts that he buys brown boxes of pellets because they apparently come from the same die for the whole box while tins are frequently mixtures. ED if you see this please chime in and correct me!!
During some of the tests that I reported on, I found a tin that clearly had a mixture of two batches. Their average was true 0.5gr different. I don't remember exact numbers but say something like 7.3gr and 7.8gr. They would also show two groups about a 1/2" apart. I also don't remember which manufacturer but you get the idea.
If you want to be truly confused, weighing and measuring pellets is a whole different discipline. If you want to get into that, be aware that the powder scales that most use are barely adequate with resolutions of 0.1gr. I have a Gem scale that resolves to 0.02gr reliably. I used a set of Starrett micrometers for measuring but again found them barely adequate for the task. I have calibration weights from an old analytical balance in my collection of weird junk and a new set of calibration weights that I purchased. They showed that the powder scale was linear but not too sensitive while the Gem scale was more linear and more sensitive.
Example with the powder scale , I weighed 100 pellets separately into 10.2, 10.3, 10.4, 10.5, 10.6, 10.7, 10.8 gr. (that is 10.2 to 10.29 in one bin etc. The tin weight was 10.6gr.
I weighed each group separately, expecting something between 10.2 and 10.3 for that batch. etc. The average for all batches came out around 10.35gr. Weighing 100 random pellets from the tin gave the 10.35number again. From that I concluded that the scale wasn't quite good enough. Not that they all weighed the same.
With the Gem scale, I did better but still got an average of 10.3+ for the batch. I got tighter averages that the powder scale but still not consistent enough to suit me.
Given all that, I decided to worry about that tomorrow and just shoot!!
True Dave, on the bottom of the CPM box there is sticker with the die designation (A, B, C etc) and I believe a date. Shooters more advanced than I will often buy a number of boxes with the same die and date. I have also read that the brown box dies are only used for a certain limited period and then transferred to the production of the regular "tin and milk carton" line. NCED can give a better dissertation on the matter I'm sure. ;) At this point, my eyes, nerves and general marksmanship skills likely don't match the capability of the equipment I use, but by using good equipment I eliminate any excuses.....
Interesting observations on the various scales, head sizes and weights.....as long as my accuracy is within "Moment of Squirrel" I'm satisfied.... ;D
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I haven't tried to get the brown box pellets you mention as I don't shoot that much. I measure my accuracy in 1/4 or 1/4 minute of chipmunk units.
Didn't have them in Tulsa but $3000 in damage to hardscape wall led me to kill off as many as I could here. The grand total to date is a bit over 400. I kind of lost track a few years ago when I broke my neck on the driveway but had exceeded 300 at that time. I started tracking the next year and since have shot over 100. It looks like I am going to have to do it again as my wife reported that she saw a hole near the wall again. I sit at the kitchen table with an open window, a Caldwell tack driver bag and my 54. Rabbits are also appearing where we didn't have them a year ago so...they may be on the agenda too. I hoped the increase in local fox and coyote population would help keep them down. However, I haven't see a big yellow cat that hung around recently. A coyote may have had him for dinner and is causing an increase in chipmunk population.
Funny story about feral cats and coyotes: I live near the Cuyahoga Valley National Park that was dedicated about 25 years ago. The park didn't have too many song birds but had numerous feral cats. A neighbor of mine was on the oversight team for the park. They approved release of coyotes into the park. In a few years, the song bird and coyote population increased and the feral cats decreased.
Cheers!
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"I shimmed with aluminum soda can and all is well"
I found an excellent source of steel shim stock of various thicknesses super cheap! Buy the old fashioned feeler gauges that we rarely use or see these days. A couple bucks at Harbor Freight? About the right size, multiple thicknesses. I have used them many times.
Some thoughts on sling usage on break barrel. If you are using it for carry attaching to the barrel is probably OK. However, carrying in the woods might wiggle something loose and activity impact accuracy. If you are using the sling as an aid to tight holding, it might be a problem. Many years ago after quite a period of prone competition, I had the need to shoot a Ruger Mini 14 from the prone position. Its sling attachment was on the barrel. My normal sling setup was enough to deflect the barrel and ruin accuracy. I had to shoot it unconfined to hit anything.
Probably better to figure out how to attach it to the stock.
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I'm getting a lot of responses, thanks guys.
An inexpensive source of steel shim stock is nice, I never did find one....$85...?
....and the subject of that saltwater marine thing is important us us all, but since it encompasses the entire field of naval architecture, I'll give it a short mention: A) Any two dis-similar metals, in direct contact with each other will generate an electrical charge.
B) Any electrical charge flowing through metals will generate free hydrogen ions.
C) Any free hydrogen ions in contact with moisture will produce acid.
A+B+C= Clean your barrel with a bronze brush and oil your gun.
Now, what is IMPORTANT! that I keep on failing to mention is that the Diana/RWS 350 Magnum does not have any type of "anti beartrap" mechanism...which means to us all is that for one thing it is possible to decock the rifle...it also means that we will all keep on shooting the thing, and fiddling with the trigger adjustments, until it goes off while we are loading it...so! while loading the gun please rest your forearm on the barrel of the rifle, the weight of your forearm is adequate to throw the gun clear of your thumb.
With that...(My only scope is still broke.) I noticed that my rifle needed to the rear sight taken apart and cleaned up, the factory lube had become putty..that was easy...but, as usual, since the safety detente wasn't working and thing needed to be oiled anyhow, I knocked the brand new rifle out of the stock...(THANK YOU RWS...NO GREASE INSIDE OF THE GUN.).......
I assume there was nothing "wrong" with the T05 trigger until somebody upgraded it, so, if you knock yours down to twek it out a little bit, remember not to be afraid to bump all three pins out...its the pin that is the most difficult to work that needs it the most...as far as working a trigger goes, piece of cake. 6000 grit and a touch of grease. The one adjustment screw effects seer engagement, so, after polishing everything, I left mine a little too much, until it brakes in. Safety detente is due to the plasic that the saftey is made from, I guess they didn't figure on the air conditioned warehouse in Arizona reaching 140 degrees...
...did any of you guys notice that trigger guard, looks like plastic but is actually an aluminum/white metal casting?....a shame we can't get away all from this plastic stuff, at any price.
Shot a few shots with it after that , off my knee, no sling at fifty feet and it decided that it can constantly stay inside of a quarter. Had one 3/8 x 1/2 inch group, vertically strung....cleaned gun and put it back in the box...it will wait until I fix "the problem" which I'm pretty sure is with the gun's balance.
I still haven't decided on a scope or pellets....I'll have to test it at 35-40 yards, so I'll probably find a few things that appear to work but don't work. A hunting rifle is only as good as you can shoot it and I prefer to miss because it is my fault...
I assume that is something that has brought us all together here..."why did I miss?" should not be answered with "Because your equipment is junk." For over ten thousand years men have been hurling things at little furry creatures and blaming it on the equipment, their best teachers have been telling them to change hunting techniques to suit their own skills and other men have been providing really stupid and expensive solutions, I doubt I'm here to fix it.
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An inexpensive scope that did pretty well in earlier tests on my FWB was made by Center Point. Nothing fancy but can be had with adjustable objective, air gun rated at WALMART!!!! Check their on-line store with free shipping to your local WallyWorld. A friend has the 4-12 while I have a 3-9 that started on my 54, moved to the FWB (a bit too long) and has migrated to one of my light 22 rifles. In any case, if it dies too quickly the investment is low compared to some of the really good ones that also die!! Unless you are getting into field target or other competition for under $75 it can't be beat. Glass pretty OK - not Zeiss but OK. Chipmunks didn't mind the cheap scope that blew their brains out. MAKE SURE YOU FIND ONE THAT IS AIR GUN recoil capable AND HAS AN ADJUSTABLE OBJECTIVE for parallax and focus at close ranges.
I do recommend the RWS single piece mount but any will do if you torque them to the correct levels. The best investment If you want to get cheap ones that are actually pretty good, I ran across a Chinese vendor at a gun show with a host of cheap mounts, rings, etc. They are marked Sniper - who knows where they were made other than China. A bit crude but good steel screws and a recoil stop pin and fit a 11mm rail for under $10 a pair!!! I had them on my 54 for a while but switched back to the RWS. I have seen them on Ebay and other websites too. I was working on scope height so both different heights trying to get the lowest I could.
The most expensive scope I have is the Clearridge that is now on my FWB and was about $220. I found a sell out at online air gun vendor (straight shooters) when they were doing inventory and bought 4 pretty good mid range scopes for 1/3 price each. They are living on some of my powder guns that had previously had pretty crappy BSA scopes. One of them is a Weaver target style scope with super-fine cross hairs and a 0.125minute dot at 16x. Unfortunately, my eyes make using it pretty difficult as I can't easily find the crosshairs. For hunting it would be a disaster but for bench-rest or target shooting against a white background it is OK. The dot is half the size of a 22 caliber hole at 100yds. Right now it is living in a box while I get my 243 M70 Varmintmaster tuned up. (pillar bed, free float, glass bedding, trigger tune. )