GTA
Support Equipment For PCP/HPA/CO2 and springers ,rams => Support Equipment For PCP/HPA/CO2 => Topic started by: RAJOD on July 14, 2017, 04:44:04 PM
-
Hi, I might be able to a get a huge 6500 psi? Acetylene type tank from a fire department.
What fitting do I need that would have a foster on the end of it?
How much larger are those than a 74 cuft carbon tank?
How heavy are they? Not sure if i'll take it as its pretty big. Can get it filled to maybe at fire dept to like 5000 psi.
-
They will not fill it... you would be better off renting a 6000 psi nitrogen tank and getting it filled (with nitrogen)at a welding supply shop...
-
Acetylene does not run those pressures, So it must be a Nitrogen tank at 6500-psi, First look at the regular set-up that's required to handle those pressure's, They not cheap at all. Same with tank Fill's. I don't know if they will fill with air?? cheers Jaa
-
He did say "Acetylene " TYPE tank and was probably talking about the style and size. As it is from a FD, it is more than likely a tank form their cascade or fill station. If so, they will fill it themselves, or send it out.
I doubt a FD would offer a tank for air, that can't be used for air. Maybe some other place, but NOT a Fire Dept! ;)
Most people, being not familiar with high pressure vessels, call ANY such tank an AC/Ox tank..Just as people in the past called 'All" electric circular saws, "SKil Saws/ Regardless of what brand it actually was. LOL!!!
Knife
-
They will not fill it... you would be better off renting a 6000 psi nitrogen tank and getting it filled (with nitrogen)at a welding supply shop...
That was not my question. They do fill it now and will fill it. Do you know them or something?
I don't know if I even want one for free. They look huge, plus would need to pick it up and drive it in to be filled. I'm not looking to buy one just am in the position to have one if I choose.
-
Acetylene does not run those pressures, So it must be a Nitrogen tank at 6500-psi, First look at the regular set-up that's required to handle those pressure's, They not cheap at all. Same with tank Fill's. I don't know if they will fill with air?? cheers Jaa
It might not be an acetylene tank, it just looks like one. Its used to hold air right now. Its just a huge steel tank that could hold many things, right now its used for AIR. Buts the same size as a acetylene tank.
Forget about if it can hold air or not or the pressure. It can and does hold air. The scuba shop wants them and I can have some too. So I could put 4500 psi in it.
I just want to know if these things are worth the hassle, I can get 4 for free if I want. But I don't know that I want them even if they paid me to haul them away.
was hoping there was someone here that had one and used it for a PCP fill station to let me know if they are worth the hassle beause they are huge and look heavy. They might weigh 400 pounds but I don't know did not try to lift it.
-
He did say "Acetylene " TYPE tank and was probably talking about the style and size. As it is from a FD, it is more than likely a tank form their cascade or fill station. If so, they will fill it themselves, or send it out.
I doubt a FD would offer a tank for air, that can't be used for air. Maybe some other place, but NOT a Fire Dept! ;)
Most people, being not familiar with high pressure vessels, call ANY such tank an AC/Ox tank..Just as people in the past called 'All" electric circular saws, "SKil Saws/ Regardless of what brand it actually was. LOL!!!
Knife
Yes correct Knife!
Probably used as a cascade for their fill stations. Not wanted anymore dumping them.
So i figure I want to make it like my carbon tank. Just need a male foster on the end.
But it won't have slow flow so filling a gun could be tricky with one as the valve might not be jeweled action, might be tricky to adjust flow dunno.
-
Just make sure its not an acetylene tank' they have a porus device inside saturated with actetone
that dissolves the acetylene'
acetylene has to be dissolved in acetone to be compressed to tank pressure round ahunnit fitty psi'my buss two hunnit fitty psi'
free acetylene gas operates @ 15psi MAX'
If you try and use an acetylene tank YOU MIGHT DIE!
DO NOT USE ANY TYPE OF FUEL OR OXYGEN TANK OR YOU MIGHT DIE!
Only use nitrogen' compressed air' inert gas tank' or certified dive tanks'
-
I guess you should have been clearer maybe... and KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE... Do not get on folks for wanting to keep you safe...
-
and this is the Title of the thread...
"Fittings for large metal Acetylene tank"
-
Rajod..
They make a two wheeled hand truck that has (wheelie bar) type wheels that allow the loaded hand truck to be tilted back and moved around very easily. I have a tank just as you describe in my barn that was here when I moved in. I haven't dug it out to look at it. I'm sure it would need hydro and visual inspections before anyone would fill it.
-
You would get alot of fills out of it and could probably find a regulator from Joe b at airtanks for sale.
-
I guess you should have been clearer maybe... and KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE... Do not get on folks for wanting to keep you safe...
Yes I did not realize I could change the topic heading. I did not know what to call it only what it looked like to me.
I changed the topic to AIR. Its used in a fire department in a daisy chain for breathing air. So better than pellet gun tank air.
Again I just want to know how much of a hassle is it, how many fills can I get, can I fill my carbon tank from it.
How heavy, can the valve be used to fill a gun directly or are they too fast. Just trying to find out the hidden costs and hassles of owning such a big tank. Cost to me is hauling it, getting a foster, and lugging it back for fills.
-
When I was first exploring the world of PCP I knew I wasn't one for hand pumping. I stopped by the local American Gas welder's supply shop. I could lease a large tank like this for $72 and year and they would deliver filled exchanges for $18. This included C02 or Compressed air.
For the cost of gauges/ regulators and inspections, not to mention logistics, this seems a better route.
-
If you do get them I suggest you not use them until you learn a good bit more about Safety and these High pressure potential BOMBS...
But find out exactly what they are first they might not even pass an inspection for certification...
It really is important to learn about things first with this stuff... and honestly I do not like how many transport thier tanks there is a chance of knocking off the valve... and what can happen usually no matter how improbable does happen...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_Jk_Wlmvbc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_Jk_Wlmvbc)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-xmaPSZ6GM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-xmaPSZ6GM)
-
I bet there like torch tanks about 5 ft tall. There is a cap that can screw over top of the valve . Depending on the size they are like a 100 lbs each for weight
-
If you do get them I suggest you not use them until you learn a good bit more about Safety and these High pressure potential BOMBS...
But find out exactly what they are first they might not even pass an inspection for certification...
It really is important to learn about things first with this stuff... and honestly I do not like how many transport thier tanks there is a chance of knocking off the valve... and what can happen usually no matter how improbable does happen...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_Jk_Wlmvbc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_Jk_Wlmvbc)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-xmaPSZ6GM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-xmaPSZ6GM)
Thanks, the point of my post here was to learn more about them. I don't want to get one and find it all out later.
I was at PCP store looking at his indoor range and he had one. Said he did not ever have to hydra it because it was such n such a steal tank etc. Later I get opportunity to get them free but even free is not always a good deal if there are hidden issues.
I'll check out the videos, thanks.
I looked at them. Yes I've seen those. They are purposely knocking the valve heads off the tanks. I've seen people shoot carbon fiber tanks too. I own a 4500 psi carbon tank. Not met anyone that has had one blow up on them. They bust at 20,000 PSI. The large metal tanks are even thicker and stronger. They are not going to spontaneosly blow up.
The risk is moving them in a truck and it falls off the back and somehow hits perfectly. Are there people on this forum that own such tanks that have had them spontaneously blow up? Or do the heads fly off on their own? I don't think so, the only issues I have seen are people making videos shooting them, or slicing the heads off.
Probably not many people on this forum own such tanks, most like me own carbon fiber and have no experience with them.
I thought there might be a few that could give me an idea of how well the included "Fast Fill Valve works"
How many CUFT they are so I could calculate how long it might last before needed a fill. I'm thinking maybe 1x per year.
I don't own any big bore PCPs.
-
I want to say when I check into a nitrogen tank 6000psi when I got my big bore it was like 400 or 600 cuft it was a steel tank like 5 ft tall maybe a 12 inch diameter
-
I want to say when I check into a nitrogen tank 6000psi when I got my big bore it was like 400 or 600 cuft it was a steel tank like 5 ft tall maybe a 12 inch diameter
Ok so like 6.7x more than my tiger shark tank. I'm guessing I get 50 fills from it (not really counted) so 50 x 6.7 = 335 fills.
At 40 shots per fill 335x40 = 13,400 pellets.
That could be a year of shooting depending on how many people I let feed off it.
-
When I was first exploring the world of PCP I knew I wasn't one for hand pumping. I stopped by the local American Gas welder's supply shop. I could lease a large tank like this for $72 and year and they would deliver filled exchanges for $18. This included C02 or Compressed air.
For the cost of gauges/ regulators and inspections, not to mention logistics, this seems a better route.
So if someone offered you a free 500 cuft air tank + free fills (But you have to drive it there, 3miles) you would say no and pay $90.00 per 6 months to a year?
If they are 100 pounds one time a year might not be terrible.
-
You might want to look a little deeper. Your thread began asking about fittings. Any response?
And I don't know about yours but, my local FD can only fill to 2260 psi. That is what they are regulated at because that is what the personal breathing tanks hold.
-
What will you be hauling this with?
American Airworks' UN ISO DOT cylinder air cascade systems are designed for ... AC40060 - UN/ISO/DOT 6000 PSI/414 BAR, 510 CF, 202 Lbs - 91 Kg empty
-
first you do not describe it properly and then again come at me like you already know it all... I am done... good luck...
http://www.psicylinders.com/inspectors/library/37-testing-interval-for-air-storage-banks (http://www.psicylinders.com/inspectors/library/37-testing-interval-for-air-storage-banks)
-
Rajod, about 80% of the time I see your threads or replies, they seem to me to be condescending.
Anyway, just don't do it unless you can get a proper regulator on the cheap. Also, even though they may use them now in a cascade setup, have they been fed dry air? They probably have but good to check into.
-
You might want to look a little deeper. Your thread began asking about fittings. Any response?
And I don't know about yours but, my local FD can only fill to 2260 psi. That is what they are regulated at because that is what the personal breathing tanks hold.
They can fill over 4500 if they want to. Already get tanks filled there now so no issues on air. They just said they are giving some larger ones away that maybe I should get one. The scuba shop is taking some.
I'm thinking all I need is a foster. But not sure on the valve yet.
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMFQf79QcCc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMFQf79QcCc)
-
What will you be hauling this with?
American Airworks' UN ISO DOT cylinder air cascade systems are designed for ... AC40060 - UN/ISO/DOT 6000 PSI/414 BAR, 510 CF, 202 Lbs - 91 Kg empty
Thanks! Its mostly likely one of those. I'll have to drive over and check.
I know they can fill past 4500 psi if need but did not check to see what they actually filled those too.
Even if only 4500 psi thats 335 fills on my Daystate. At 6000 psi maybe 450 fills or more.
200 pounds yea that is a load to be moving.
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMFQf79QcCc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMFQf79QcCc)
Thanks for the link, yea if I you own a automatic PCP can do some serious shooting off one of those tanks.
I don't plan on putting much money into it, won't be getting a regulator if I get it at all.
But hard to turn down free tank w free fills.
-
Rajod, about 80% of the time I see your threads or replies, they seem to me to be condescending.
Anyway, just don't do it unless you can get a proper regulator on the cheap. Also, even though they may use them now in a cascade setup, have they been fed dry air? They probably have but good to check into.
Focus on the 20 percent that are not :)
How is me asking about a tank condescending? I'm sorry I am not looking down on you, did not mean it to sound that way. Just looking for information, any help is appreciated.
On the regulator, that one in the video looks to be expensive. My current carbon tank does not have one why do I need one on the larger tank? I guess if it were at 6000 psi it might fill the gun too fast. If it comes with one yes I would take it but I think its just the tank and the valve. I was thinking of just putting a foster on it then hooking my fill line off it to my gun then turn the valve and fill my gun off it. I just look at it as a larger version of what I already own.
-
You're acting condescending toward the answers given, which you should have expected would be posted. I saw trouble when I saw the thread title. LOL.
I've seen the 6000 psi regulators on Ebay for like $200+ but think those were meant for nitrogen. Not sure if they'd work for compressed air or not.
I still say pass on the free deal. I've been a weight lifter most of my life and even now it's bothersome filling a lighter SCUBA tank, nevermind somthing this heavy.
And just for the record, when I ran our laser at my work we had 6 bottles of these on hand all the time. Most would use the tank dolly to move them through the building but the delivery guy showed me a trick to roll two at a time together by creating like an x out of them and kicking them with your foot, more like push them and not kick them. It's not a superman type of feat, but it still blew peoples' minds. ;D
-
Rajod..
They make a two wheeled hand truck that has (wheelie bar) type wheels that allow the loaded hand truck to be tilted back and moved around very easily. I have a tank just as you describe in my barn that was here when I moved in. I haven't dug it out to look at it. I'm sure it would need hydro and visual inspections before anyone would fill it.
Thanks! Nice to know their is a easier way to move them. I was just thinking take two guys wrestle it into the back of a truck with some kind of tie down drive it 4 miles to get it filled.
I'm not sure on hydros on them. The guy that sold me a carbon fiber said he did not have to hydro his. It sounded like it was because of the type or make of cylinder.
-
I was Tool n Die for years in an auto stamping plant. The "bottle" deliver guy was like watching a circus act. If he told me he could juggle five of them I would have believed him. I made a hook for my gantry crane and set my tanks on my 375 tig welder. And that was only about a 3 inch lift.
-
Sounds like the firestation would fill them for you there is a hydro test or not on the tank . To be safe though it would be a good idea
-
You're acting condescending toward the answers given, which you should have expected would be posted. I saw trouble when I saw the thread title. LOL.
I've seen the 6000 psi regulators on Ebay for like $200+ but think those were meant for nitrogen. Not sure if they'd work for compressed air or not.
I still say pass on the free deal. I've been a weight lifter most of my life and even now it's bothersome filling a lighter SCUBA tank, nevermind somthing this heavy.
And just for the record, when I ran our laser at my work we had 6 bottles of these on hand all the time. Most would use the tank dolly to move them through the building but the delivery guy showed me a trick to roll two at a time together by creating like an x out of them and kicking them with your foot, more like push them and not kick them. It's not a superman type of feat, but it still blew peoples' minds. ;D
Yea that title was a problem and I did not want it to get sidetracking (Which it did) into a long discussion on acetylene. That is all I could think of when I posted, as I did not know what they were called. It was more frustration of arghhh! I want tank information and now the thread is going towards a new direction. Understandable, I fixed it later. And also I should have stated that I have the fills covered, that they can do 4500 psi etc etc. So I might have been frustrated but I was not intending to make anyone feel like I was condescending so you have my sincere apologies sir.
Yea might pass, but then I got to thinking, 500 fills and maybe 1 time a year to fill. Hmm I could even fill my shark tank off it if need.
-
Fittings you might be able to find by calling Joe b at airtanks for sale . Com
-
Sounds like the firestation would fill them for you there is a hydro test or not on the tank . To be safe though it would be a good idea
I was going to buy my own compressor as I thought the fire-station would be a big hassle. But they borrow quite a bit of stuff from a buddy of mine which saves them money. So they don't mind at all filling, feel very welcome there. They offered the big tanks and fills. So it went from just getting free fills to this. They can do about 1000 psi per minute. So filled my shark tank faster than I had ever seen. I think they can fill to 6k not sure but over 4500 psi for sure.
So before I say NO want to make sure I'm not looking a gift horse in the mouth and regret it later. Someone will grab them so they will not go to waste.
-
If I had the chance I know what I would do...
I'd set up my own cascade system and feed an Altaros booster at 125 psi in and 4500 psi out. You could probably supply the Altaros until they were down to around 500 psi. I would use a carbon fiber 4500 psi tank as a reservoir. Dry air in, dry air out.
Might cost a bit initially but think of the savings and convenience.
-
I looked them up on the Allgas site, and if I'm looking at the right ones, they are 480 cuft, and weigh 304 lbs. Good luck moving that around to get it filled.
-
Just to expand a bit here...
At $72 a year lease and $18 replace/refill delivered including all inspections, regs and gauges. ( if included ) I'm pretty sure one guy using from it would be very happy for quite some time.
-
For the record my little sis became a firefighter in 1980... was on the bomb squad and then became a fire investigator... in a major city... My youngest daughter is a certified welder and I have learned from others over the years by staying as humble as possible...
What I was trying to get to is you need to know exactly what tanks they are and how old even their position in the chain and how exactly they where cared for before you know if they are worth it...and that was after you cleared up describing them as being acetylene tanks... It all gave me a feeling of a laissez faire attitude about safety...
I have heard of tanks exploding but not here yet... or even valves getting knocked off..but watching the full auto BB vid is the kind of thing that I think is reckless and prevalent... I just does seem like a matter of time...wish there was a free training course for everyone and enough humility to go thru it for many here... I would take it if I was getting tanks... and I do know just a bit...
I feel it would be wrong to advise anything before knowing exactly what the tanks are and more about them... could guess instead of knowing tho... not my life or even near me or my loved ones...
So yeah your tone could be much much more about learning and trying to understand others points... tank corrosion and transport are my main worries...
https://www.scubaengineer.com/tank_servicingx.htm (https://www.scubaengineer.com/tank_servicingx.htm)
but hey your tone towards me makes me think I am dumb or something...so I feel dumb posting this...
-
first you do not describe it properly and then again come at me like you already know it all... I am done... good luck...
http://www.psicylinders.com/inspectors/library/37-testing-interval-for-air-storage-banks (http://www.psicylinders.com/inspectors/library/37-testing-interval-for-air-storage-banks)
I changed the post to AIR tank, I meant it looked like an acetylene tank. Its not, I changed the heading to prevent further confusion. I did not come at you like I know it all, just letting you know that there was not an issue filling it, they are the ones giving it to me and already said they would fill it. From my point of view was "how does he know if these people would fill it or not" But I think you were coming from the view point of "If its a real acetylene tank no one will fill that with air.
So no hard feelings please, just confusion on what type of tank it really was.
-
If I had the chance I know what I would do...
I'd set up my own cascade system and feed an Altaros booster at 125 psi in and 4500 psi out. You could probably supply the Altaros until they were down to around 500 psi. I would use a carbon fiber 4500 psi tank as a reservoir. Dry air in, dry air out.
Might cost a bit initially but think of the savings and convenience.
You are a Mad Scientist, I like that!
I could get 4 of them. Have to ask if all the cascade lines are included. One is scary enough, they can weight from 150 to 290 depending on size and I am not sure on the size yet.
-
Just to expand a bit here...
At $72 a year lease and $18 replace/refill delivered including all inspections, regs and gauges. ( if included ) I'm pretty sure one guy using from it would be very happy for quite some time.
I think that is a very good deal you have there. They test, fill, deliver and you just shoot. I like it. Saves on gas and driving time.
-
For the record my little sis became a firefighter in 1980... was on the bomb squad and then became a fire investigator... in a major city... My youngest daughter is a certified welder and I have learned from others over the years by staying as humble as possible...
What I was trying to get to is you need to know exactly what tanks they are and how old even their position in the chain and how exactly they where cared for before you know if they are worth it...and that was after you cleared up describing them as being acetylene tanks... It all gave me a feeling of a laissez faire attitude about safety...
I have heard of tanks exploding but not here yet... or even valves getting knocked off..but watching the full auto BB vid is the kind of thing that I think is reckless and prevalent... I just does seem like a matter of time...wish there was a free training course for everyone and enough humility to go thru it for many here... I would take it if I was getting tanks... and I do know just a bit...
I feel it would be wrong to advise anything before knowing exactly what the tanks are and more about them... could guess instead of knowing tho... not my life or even near me or my loved ones...
So yeah your tone could be much much more about learning and trying to understand others points... tank corrosion and transport are my main worries...
https://www.scubaengineer.com/tank_servicingx.htm (https://www.scubaengineer.com/tank_servicingx.htm)
but hey your tone towards me makes me think I am dumb or something...so I feel dumb posting this...
Hey I liked that link you gave me, lots of good information I did not know on these tanks.
My uncle was a fire chief in Chicago in charge of 3 stations also have cousins and nephews that are firefighters.
But I don't know anything about their tanks or equipment. So I appreciate the information.
This tank "if I get it" won't be moved much, only once per year. From the information you gave it does sound like they need hydro if you move them. I think the scuba shop will use for breathing air and use their own compressors.
I do appreciate the safety information, I don't want to get blown up. I'll have to check when they were last hydroed. Just don't have enough information on them yet.
-
I may have missed it but, why are they getting rid of these tanks in the first place?
-
I may have missed it but, why are they getting rid of these tanks in the first place?
Your guess is as good as mine on that. I doubt because they are ready to blow up or the scuba shop would not want them.
I will find out soon.
-
LOL..... I wasn't suggesting that at all.... just curious.
-
Wow!!!
Must be that time of month for many here. With all the expert advice, I find it odd that no one ask the simple question--What color code are they?
And Fire Dept's are well versed and tested on filling. No way they would be, in the recent past use "ANYTHING" but high pressure AIR tanks for cascade, nor would they offer to give, much less offer to fill anything else. If they did, they would fail State and Dot certification with the first inspection.
This should have been obvious from the start. Particularly from the Experts! And Yes, I am an X LEO/Firefighter.
This post has far too much hateful post in it to pass muster. Just because the man doesn't know bottle colors, should not the Experts at least know enough to ask the proper questions before running someone else down?
I find this thread disappointing, and mean spirited.
Knife
-
I think rather than giving advice coming from an mixture of ignorance and arrogance, or simply trying to be helpful, perhaps a simple suggestion would be to look at the markings on the bottles, and color, and ask both the designated station Safety officer, and also to take the info to the local, or nearest commercial/officially certified fill station, and get the true info rather than wild speculation. ;)
Knife
-
Wow!!!
Must be that time of month for many here. With all the expert advice, I find it odd that no one ask the simple question--What color code are they?
And Fire Dept's are well versed and tested on filling. No way they would be, in the recent past use "ANYTHING" but high pressure AIR tanks for cascade, nor would they offer to give, much less offer to fill anything else. If they did, they would fail State and Dot certification with the first inspection.
This should have been obvious from the start. Particularly from the Experts! And Yes, I am an X LEO/Firefighter.
This post has far too much hateful post in it to pass muster. Just because the man doesn't know bottle colors, should not the Experts at least know enough to ask the proper questions before running someone else down?
I find this thread disappointing, and mean spirited.
Knife
It is not mean spirtited to suggest he learn what he is doing before he starts messing with a large volume of 4500 psi....Me I did not claim to be an expert in fact I said I know A little... must be your time eh...
-
oops 6000 psi my admitted concentration probs showing again...
-
I think rather than giving advice coming from an mixture of ignorance and arrogance, or simply trying to be helpful, perhaps a simple suggestion would be to look at the markings on the bottles, and color, and ask both the designated station Safety officer, and also to take the info to the local, or nearest commercial/officially certified fill station, and get the true info rather than wild speculation. ;)
Knife
Yea I don't know a thing about those bottles and I can't get over there for a few days to check it out. I don't know if they are safer than carbon fiber, or if they have to be hydroed etc. My concern was just over the sheer weight of them. I did see one at the PCP gun shop but he had his own compressor. He had it out next to the range inside and well he did not seem to concerned that it would blow up so that part did not really enter my my mind. Then a day later I find I can get a similar tank for free. Thought hmm maybe I can find out more on the forum.
I'll just ask them when I have time, they will have all the answers.