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All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: datilD on June 15, 2017, 08:29:03 AM
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The .22 Benjamin Marauder had been my grail air gun for years. I finally got my Mrod, and got it sighted in to shoot 1/4" groups at 15 yards (only with JSB Jumbo Exact.. everything else is a fail). If I had a proper rest, it could easily do better. The problem that I am having is that it is a beast to fill 2900 PSI with a hand pump, and the 900 FPS velocity is a bit much for back yard pesting. I know that I can lower the velocity by limiting the airflow with the adjuster screw. Will using an SSG, lighter spring and reduced hammer weight enable me to effectively use a 2000K fill pressure? Should I simply cut my losses, sell the Mrod and get a .22 Maximus? I can restrict the transfer port and use an SSG with a lighter spring, shooting over the chrony to dial in my +/- 700 FPS. Keeping the velocity in the 700 FPS range is enough for chipmunks and target shooting at 15 yards.
The other issue is that the Mrod is louder than expected. My .22 FD XS60 PCP with 5.5" TKO LDC is about the same volume, which is definitely not what I would consider quiet. (The XS60 is also a bit over powered, but I am working on it.) As such, I have been using my 1377 carbine with TKO LDC to dispatch the vermin. The only sound is the hammer and pellet smack. The .177 doesn't have the knockdown power of a .22, and the rodents will often flop for a few seconds. (The carbine likes Crosman pointed hunting pellets, and will not shoot CPHP.) With the .22s, it is instant lights out. With less velocity, I know that I can expect less report and higher shot count. Is there an approximate transfer port size that I should begin with to lower the velocity of the Marauder or Maximus, before I add and begin tweaking on the SSG? I can turn a few different transfer ports on my lathe to experiment with, but having an idea of the inner diameter would be helpful. I have read through nearly all of the SSG threads, and have a pretty good idea of how to adjust it to regulate my shot strings.
*Using a 2000 PSI fill pressure will enable me to more easily fill with a hand pump, or use an inexpensive SCBA tank from the local dive shop.
Would it be easier to get a Maximus dialed down to 700 FPS than converting the Marauder to shoot at 2000 PSI?
What transfer port size should I start with to lower the velocity?
Thanks in advance!
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I'm interested in finding out what people have to say about this. Something I have wondered about myself.
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Yes, you can tune the marauder to work with a 2000 psi starting pressure. Here is one example to get you started:
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2010/12/adjusting-the-benjamin-marauder-for-low-pressure-operation/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2010/12/adjusting-the-benjamin-marauder-for-low-pressure-operation/)
There are many more documented setups if you search for them.
Thanks,
Taso
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I'll offer up MY opinion. So you can take it with a grain of salt or sugar, whichever. LOL
I love the Mrod platform. It is so very versatile and so many aftermarket goodies available. And I build my own stuff for it too. But it is a 3,000psi airgun. Yes, you can dial one down to make it a 2,000psi airgun. But for me, it's like buying a Porsche and installing a governor to keep the speed down. :)
I would suggest getting an airgun more suited to your purpose and adjusting from there. Like a Disco or Maximus. Or an S200. There are several more suitable choices in that power range and air reservoir capacity.
Whatever you choose....
SAFE & Happy Shooting!!!!
Dave
8)
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Derek, you can easily tune the .22 to shoot 700 fps with the 18.13gr or others. I would leave the VMS fully open at 5.5 turns CCW. With the VMS closed down, all you are essentially doing is similar to just putting your hand out of the window of a moving car so to speak. The valve still opens the same amount, but you just put some resistance against the flow when closing the VMS. For efficiency sake, I would much rather use an SSG tuned properly utilizing the gap to control the velocity. Short quick burst of air is much better than a long drawn out pulse of air because of some flow restriction. I am sure you have seen my DIY SSG build which would be cheap and easy to build, but any device that provides a gap or removes preload like the TSS or others will work too.
The higher the fill pressure the better the efficiency and with the Marauder the sweet spot is between 2800 psi and 2100 psi, but you can tune anywhere in the power curve for less shot count. To fill to only 2000 psi is doable but less efficient. To do so, I would recommend filling to the midpoint of your desired max fill pressure (around 1600 to 1500 psi) and set your peak velocity there while staying close to the midpoint pressure while you are adjusting the peak then fill to max and run a full string to note any fine tuning needed. Ideally you should have a centered bell curve with the peak velocity in the middle of your string once tuned correctly.
I would recommend a lighter hammer than stock too and the MDS hammers are light and smooth cocking and are a good substitute for a stock weight hammer. Keep in mind though that a lighter hammer will require more hammer spring tension to maintain the same velocity that a heavier stock hammer produced. Also keep in mind that the stock .22 cal valve spring is very stiff and hard to open even at lower fill pressures so consider replacing it with a lighter one for easier cocking effort overall. I went with the .25 cal valve spring in mine because it is a little weaker than a .22 valve spring. Lowering the spring rate of the valve spring helps even out the heavier hammer spring requirements when using a lighter hammer.
It is all a balance between the valve opening time (hammer energy), port size and fill pressure. Keep the ports stock with a low fill pressure in order to keep the bell curve within a usable range and make tuning easier. Only open ports for max raw velocities or when regulating. Keep the SSG gap small for a short dwell of air burst and the quietest shot noise possible and the easiest cocking effort.
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Double load it every time..........problem solved ;D
it's like buying a Porsche and installing a governor to keep the speed down. :)
That would be a travesty!
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Keith, you have some good points. And I could have filled a response with many suggestions to lower power and extend shot count. But as you stated, the sweet spot for the MRod is generally around the 2100psi area. But as Derek stated, he is hand pumping and filling to 3,000psi is a PITA. Hence my suggestion of a different airgun instead of massive modifications to the MRod.
But again, just my opinion.
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What kind hand pump are you using? It was hard going with the Benjamin pump, compared to the Hill pump, maybe a pump upgrade would help.
For the yard I've been using my Kral w/ power adjuster backed down so I'm sending lead down range @ 490 fps for 7.8fpe which is good for anything I may have to pop a shot at.
If you do end up ditching the Mrod for something else, at its price point Kral to me with the power adjuster makes it one heck of a yard gun.
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Simple tune down for now and keep the Mrod... and save for a disco... and a T KO ...;)
A Disco is nice and light...
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Put a WAR TSS on it, tune it for a 2500 psi fill so your shot string hits about 800 at the top of the curve with JSB 18.1 jumbo heavys and you will be good. I can pump my disco with the 3000psi mod up to 2500 easy with my benji pump.
Happy hunting!
Phil
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Get a SCBA Fill tank and some headphones and you'll be fine.......... ;D
Really.
What everyone said above....
and you can get an extension TKO for it to make it extra quite......
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Wow.. Thanks for all of the replies and info! It will keep me busy reading and researching for a while longer.
I was leaning towards selling the Mrod in favor of a Maximus, but the fact that it is such an accurate .22 made me consider modding it for lower power. The reviews of the Maximus have indicated that it tends to be accurate, but it a new AG is always a gamble. Having an AG designed for a 2000 PSI fill is clearly a good starting point. I have never liked the process of auditioning pellets for a new AG, but it is rewarding to stack pellets after the right one is found. The rodents don't like it when I start targeting them instead of paper, though.
I am currently using a Xisco hand pump. It works great for the XS60 PCP, and worked well on a Disco (that I returned due to a brutal leak). Filling the Mrod is not easy when it gets past 2000 PSI. As I mentioned, the other reason for staying with a 2000 PSI fill is that I can pick up a huge 3000 PSI SCBA tank for $125, and get it filled for $7 or $8 locally. That will give me a lot of fills without using a hand pump.
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Some info on the Disco with smaller Transfer Ports....
(http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/Discovery/2260DiscoPortStrings2_zpsc52cf166.jpg) (http://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/Discovery/2260DiscoPortStrings2_zpsc52cf166.jpg.html)
Those were with a stock valve, 2000 psi fill, but a 2260 reservoir (half the volume of a Disco).... You can double the shot count above, using a stock Disco, and only changing the transfer port.... If you are looking for ~ 700 fps with 14.3 gr. pellets, I would try a 0.090" transfer port.... and you should get about 40 shots per fill when properly tuned....
Bob
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You could install a reg. It wont really fix the problem of pumping it up but if you reg it to a low tune you will gain a bunch of shots. The low tune reg will also make it very quiet.
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I disagree with the idea of a reg. "gaining a bunch of shots".... They reduce the ES, but seldom gain shots at a given FPE level.... A reg'd PCP tends to be louder than the same FPE gun without a reg. as well.... particularly in the first half of the shot string, where the unregulated gun is operating using tiny sips of high pressure.... which is a very quiet mode of operation....
Bob
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You have plenty of options without spending a dime - the Marauder, as designed, is very versatile. We all have taken it further with aftermarket parts, but you can do a lot with the stock tuning approach.
It has a been several years, but used to run my .22 at about 18 FPE off about a 2600 psi fill in the winter time for indoor target shooting, and I got about 60 shots with an ES under 2%. Just follow the earlier advice on the lower pressure/power tunes.
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Keith, you have some good points. And I could have filled a response with many suggestions to lower power and extend shot count. But as you stated, the sweet spot for the MRod is generally around the 2100psi area. But as Derek stated, he is hand pumping and filling to 3,000psi is a PITA. Hence my suggestion of a different airgun instead of massive modifications to the MRod.
But again, just my opinion.
Dave, I couldn't agree more and from my experience at the fun shoot when checking out the Maximus, Derek would really like it and it would align better with his needs like you suggested when hand pumping. I really wanted to win the raffle drawing on that gun at the fun shoot. It is very light and easy to handle and I have not heard anything but very good accuracy about that gun.
I agree, tuning a Mrod to a very low velocities is not ideal and I only made suggestions on what I would do if the Mrod is what he decides to stick with.
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I disagree with the idea of a reg. "gaining a bunch of shots".... They reduce the ES, but seldom gain shots at a given FPE level.... A reg'd PCP tends to be louder than the same FPE gun without a reg. as well.... particularly in the first half of the shot string, where the unregulated gun is operating using tiny sips of high pressure.... which is a very quiet mode of operation....
Bob
Well Bob you are very experienced but I think you are looking at my comments incorrectly.
stock setup: 3,000 psi and 30 fpe. Its a guess if its 30 fpe but I will assume a stock mrod using a 3,000 psi fill will be a 30 fpe rifle.
reg setup: 1700 or 1800 psi regulated tune, lightweight hammer if needed and still using a 3,000 psi fill. Or an even lower setting on the reg if its still over the power the OP needs.
I will argue that going from that unregulated tune to the regulated one will most certainly increase shot count because properly tuned and setup its going to be sipping tiny bits of air to reach the lower fpe tune the OP is wanting. Also if it is setup correctly it will be quieter. I just regulated my scorpion .177 and its half the noise it was pre reg and every pcp I have added a regulator to that was setup properly has been quieter. I will agree with you that a regulated rifle thats setup for the same fpe that it was shooting pre reg will not gain shots but the OP is wanting less power unless I read his post incorrectly. So yes he will gain a bunch of shots if hes wanting to go from lets say 30 fpe to 15 - 18 fpe and adds a regulator.
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Reducing the power is what increases the shot count, not using a reg. to do so.... You can clearly see that in the chart I posted.... I didn't misunderstand, I merely wanted to emphasize that is the power reduction that increases the shot count....
Bob
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Is my memory fooling me, but didn't the tag on my new Gen1 MRod state that it was factory setup for a 2500 lb fill?
Does anyone have a velocity chart for a co2 powered 22 cal MRod?
I pump to 2500 lb with an Air Force pump and I'm a 71 y.o. couch potato with a bad back.
I'm no "Uncle Ernie" who likes to fiddle about. (Anyone recognize the reference?)
K.I.S.S.
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Reducing the power is what increases the shot count, not using a reg. to do so.... You can clearly see that in the chart I posted.... I didn't misunderstand, I merely wanted to emphasize that is the power reduction that increases the shot count....
Bob
Yes that is true lowering power on a non reg pcp will increase shot count but you are still working with a lower amount of air at a lower psi fill than the regulated pcp. With the reg you would be working off a 3,000 psi fill not 2,000 psi. So are you saying a non reg pcp set up for a starting fill of 2,000 psi is going to have the same shot count as a pcp regulated to 1700 - 1800 psi or lower and filled to 3,000 psi?
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What about a regulator.Still pump to 2900 psi
Set regulator to 1500 psi.
Get plenty of accurate shots in the lower fps range you want.
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The problem that I am having is that it is a beast to fill 2900 PSI with a hand pump, and the 900 FPS velocity is a bit much for back yard pesting.
*Using a 2000 PSI fill pressure will enable me to more easily fill with a hand pump, or use an inexpensive SCBA tank from the local dive shop.
Would it be easier to get a Maximus dialed down to 700 FPS than converting the Marauder to shoot at 2000 PSI?
What transfer port size should I start with to lower the velocity?
Thanks in advance!
Some keep overlooking this part...
:)
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Of course not, Leland.... Filling to 3000 psi will give a huge shot count advantage compared to filling to only 2000 psi.... and filling to 4500 psi (in an appropriate gun) will increase that even further.... However, we are talking apples and oranges.... Yes, if you tune an MRod to shoot at 16 FPE at 1200 psi, using a regulator, and fill it to 3000 psi, you will get huge shot count at low power.... However, if you are using a Disco, which is limited to a 2000 psi fill, and tune it unregulated to 16 FPE and get 40 shots (per my graph).... you will be hard pressed to get that same power and shot count with a regulator installed....
Sorry if I misled the OP with my statements.... Regulated PCPs are absolutely the best way to get low to medium power in PCPs, provided you have a large enough reservoir (both pressure and volume) to feed them.... An MRod, properly tuned to 16 FPE by using a regulator and the appropriate other changes, would be a great choice.... providing filing to 2900-3000 psi is something the OP wants to do.... If he really wants to fill to 2000 psi, there may be a better alternative....
Bob
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Prior to regulating I could only achieve a MAX of 32 shots @ 40 fpe within around 3% ES.
After regulation I could achieve easily 40 shots @ 40 fpe with 2% ES or better.
Yes regulators CAN increase shot count, but in the above scenario my EFFICIENCY did NOT increase...I disagree wholeheartedly with Bob stating regulating gains NO shots...
I have my .25 cal tuned at 1950 psi regulated shooting anywhere from 12-60 fpe, the 12-15 fpe tunes I use in my backyard @ 20-30 yards and have PLENTY of knock down power and accuracy is always better than 1 moa.
With the proper adjustments you could tune a marauder to do 5-20 FPE in any stock caliber from 1000-3000 psi if one desires...just gotta find the right balance in hammer weight/spring and tp sizing to do it well.
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Bob we were talking about the same thing just different angles. Yes we agree on all the points ;)
The problem that I am having is that it is a beast to fill 2900 PSI with a hand pump, and the 900 FPS velocity is a bit much for back yard pesting.
*Using a 2000 PSI fill pressure will enable me to more easily fill with a hand pump, or use an inexpensive SCBA tank from the local dive shop.
Would it be easier to get a Maximus dialed down to 700 FPS than converting the Marauder to shoot at 2000 PSI?
What transfer port size should I start with to lower the velocity?
Thanks in advance!
Some keep overlooking this part...
:)
Im not overlooking that part. Im trying to give the op an alternate fix so he doesnt have to sell his mrod. With the large shot count he would gain by using his mrod regulated down there would be less pumping and more shooting. The OP could still just pump the mrod to 2,000-2100 psi. If the mrod only needed 1500 psi as a reg setpoint that would be a very viable way to get his low power tune, great shot count and keep his mrod while still having flexibility to go up if he ever gets a tank.
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I'll offer up MY opinion. So you can take it with a grain of salt or sugar, whichever. LOL
I love the Mrod platform. It is so very versatile and so many aftermarket goodies available. And I build my own stuff for it too. But it is a 3,000psi airgun. Yes, you can dial one down to make it a 2,000psi airgun. But for me, it's like buying a Porsche and installing a governor to keep the speed down. :)
I would suggest getting an airgun more suited to your purpose and adjusting from there. Like a Disco or Maximus. Or an S200. There are several more suitable choices in that power range and air reservoir capacity.
Whatever you choose....
SAFE & Happy Shooting!!!!
Dave
8)
If he didn't already have the Mrod I would agree. Detuning is not that hard. Or put in a regulator set for 1200psi, adj hammer spring and striker to get velocity needed and open up the 3000psi bottle and fill. Who cares if it does not keep filling to 3000 psi. Repeat until tank is at 1200 and refill for $8.
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Thanks again for all of the replies. I have been doing a lot of reading/research based on the information that everyone provided. One thread leads to another, and another... After weighing the costs and level of mods required to get an AG where I want it, I have decided to sell the Marauder and get a Maximus. I will call it the Minumus Maximus. ;D I'll be digging through a lot of Disco mod threads, and working on efficiency and a consistent shot string (after I am sure that the Maximus is accurate and functioning well). If time allows, I'll try to document the process.
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Derek,
Don't forget that there is also a Maximus .177 Euro that is tuned for 12 fpe from the factory.
Taso
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I did this very thing. Had bought a war tss and mds hammer as well as a hammer forged barrel. Detuned it by using only the heavier spring in the tss. Was shooting from 650 to 675 and back down to 650fps. Very little change in poi and I shot ten magazines through it the other day killing 102 squirrels. that was shooting from about 1850psi down to I think 850. That's the most I pushed it. It does have a bit of a shot curve shooting that low of fps but it worked well for birds and squirrels. I would say it was a good 50 yd gun with shots out to 75 if the wind wasn't too bad.
Also I should add I am shooting the jsb 13.43 in .22
I just did today bring it back up to a range of 685 fps to 720 fps. I did notice the power curve not being as flat as the lower tune and I am getting less shots (guessing around 70), but it is a touch snappier, so the wind doesn't push it as much and it did flatten the shot curve a little. Shooting a little farther should be possible.
As for noise this was as high as I could go before the noise took a jump in sound, probably due to the hammer bouncing on the valve.
Its getting late and it been a long day so this might not make much sense, so sorry in advance.
All in all I think it may have been better to leave it where it was, but I am going to shoot with this for a while and see how it does.
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Derek,
Don't forget that there is also a Maximus .177 Euro that is tuned for 12 fpe from the factory.
Taso
I wanted to stick with a .22 for better knockdown power for the rodents. I did see that they make a .22 Euro @ 650 fps. I can't find any review on the .22 Euro (plenty for the .177, though). If it had a flat shot string, it would be worth considering. The threaded end on the barrel is a plus, too.
I did this very thing. Had bought a war tss and mds hammer as well as a hammer forged barrel. Detuned it by using only the heavier spring in the tss. Was shooting from 650 to 675 and back down to 650fps. Very little change in poi and I shot ten magazines through it the other day killing 102 squirrels. that was shooting from about 1850psi down to I think 850. That's the most I pushed it. It does have a bit of a shot curve shooting that low of fps but it worked well for birds and squirrels. I would say it was a good 50 yd gun with shots out to 75 if the wind wasn't too bad.
Also I should add I am shooting the jsb 13.43 in .22
I just did today bring it back up to a range of 685 fps to 720 fps. I did notice the power curve not being as flat as the lower tune and I am getting less shots (guessing around 70), but it is a touch snappier, so the wind doesn't push it as much and it did flatten the shot curve a little. Shooting a little farther should be possible.
As for noise this was as high as I could go before the noise took a jump in sound, probably due to the hammer bouncing on the valve.
Its getting late and it been a long day so this might not make much sense, so sorry in advance.
All in all I think it may have been better to leave it where it was, but I am going to shoot with this for a while and see how it does.
:o I am stuck on the "killing 102 squirrels" part. I thought that I had a problem with pests.
On a completely unrelated note, I am using a chipper dipper in conjunction to high speed lead poisoning for chipmunk elimination. https://hubpages.com/living/Problem-with-chipmunks-Build-a-chipper-dipper (https://hubpages.com/living/Problem-with-chipmunks-Build-a-chipper-dipper) I got 5 chipmunks the first day that I used two chipper dippers in the yard. Subsequent uses have only caught a single chipper in each. I pretty much get a chipmunk every time that I put it out, and it is a set and forget type trap. With the AG eradication, I have to keep a lookout for the pests. They keep making new holes, and it is getting harder to monitor all of their locations.
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My mistake. I thought you were looking for .177. 800 fps is flatter than 650 fps though.
177 should be fine for rodents. You also don't want pass throughs from the .22. If you were shooting beyond 50 yards or raccoon size critters then I would definitely go to .22 or even .25.
Taso
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Derek - you should re-read what Matt said in post 29 . . . but don't focus on the purchased parts. The best would be to do it with the TSS and MDS (or an even lighter hammer), but they are not needed.
What he did is great, but you can do much the same with stock parts by taking out all the spring pre-load (the 1/4" adjuster at max counter clockwise), shortening up the stroke (the 1/8" adjustment in the hammer being about 7 or 8 full turns clockwise, after having been adjusted to full stop counter clockwise). That will minimize your hammer energy and thus dramatically lower your fill pressure.
The work on restricting your transfer port setting in the valve to bring the power down to where you want it. It will take a bit of playing, but you will likely end up with a tune that gives you at least 4 mags on a fill of about 2100 psi or so.
That way you keep the Marauder (a much better gun), and are well positioned to go the other way in power and tune if you get an air tank or compressor in the future.
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These were ground squirrels at a neighbors property. I was amazed at how many there were as well when I pulled up and the ground was moving. I actually missed 4 shots out of ten clips but got 4 doubles and one triple(pretty good for only 12 ft/lbs) for 102. I will say though I doubt I could have done that with my FX streamline at full power due to noise. When I shoot at pests with it although very quiet they will still hear it and others around it won't stay for long. The marauder turned down literally only makes the sound of the hammer strike so unless your right next to it you can't hear it.
These squirrels had already been shot at by the land owner with a crosman pumper pellet gun and were conditioned to shot noise (I could understand his frustration with his setup when there were so many and each day he could only get a couple), because when I did go back one other time to pick up any left over I took both guns and the fx would send them all running for their holes but the marauder wouldn't. I definitely see that as why I was so effective. In fact one area had 5 within about 3 ft of each other and none ran while I picked them all off, the last one was getting nervous trying to figure out what was going on.
Also see what alan just posted about the tss and mds, yes I originally bought these for full power tuning, but after having two guns at almost the exact same settings, I decided to try something else with the marauder. The way it is set up now would be no different than just doing what he said. And like he said if you decide this is not what you like later on then its easy to change back.
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Well, I sold the Mrod. I ordered a Maximus and a load of parts to build the gun that I had anticipated when I got the Mrod. (Mrod trigger and spacer, Challenger transfer ports and finger guard, extra barrel band and a bunch of screws and seals). I also ordered a Neil Clague moderator. Ouch! But, from all accounts that I have read, it will completely quiet the report. Especially after I get it down in the 12-14 fpe range.
I hope to be able to do a build log on my progress in putting the Maximus together. It will be an ugly gun, but should perform like a champ for pest elimination and target shooting. In case you are wondering why I didn't do this on the Mrod, it was about money. I spent more on the Mrod than I was comfortable with in the first place, and did not want to sink a few hundred more into it to get it to where I needed it. The funds from the Mrod completely covered the Maximus, mod parts and moderator.
I am picking up a few drill bits in the gauges Bob shows on his graph, and will drill the Challenger ports to lower the fpe and increase shot count. I also have a Challenger power adjuster that I'll install. If I can get my Chrony to work properly, I'll be documenting the shot strings along the way, too. I won't be able to do the professional graphs that Bob does, though.
Thanks again for all of the tips and advice!
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It would be interesting to hear you're experiences and comparisons between the Mrod and the Maximus. Glad you are going with what your gut is telling you and what you think is best for your own needs.
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Without doing any serious mods like drilling out the transfer port or installing a reg I could easily adjust my Marauder down to the high 600fps with just a WAR TSS and a MDS hammer.... I only put two magazines through at that setpoint just to see how many shots I would get, but it wasn't want I needed for my uses so I tuned it back up to 875fps at 2800psi. All I'm saying is that it can be done without a regulator, you just won't have the super consistent shot string as the reservoir pressure goes down.
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Without doing any serious mods like drilling out the transfer port or installing a reg I could easily adjust my Marauder down to the high 600fps with just a WAR TSS and a MDS hammer.... I only put two magazines through at that setpoint just to see how many shots I would get, but it wasn't want I needed for my uses so I tuned it back up to 875fps at 2800psi. All I'm saying is that it can be done without a regulator, you just won't have the super consistent shot string as the reservoir pressure goes down.
I beg to differ. Just look at my unregulated .22 Synrod signature with TSS and MDS. 31 shots @ 1.6% ES at ~30 FPE. Much flatter (so far) than my regulated .25 Synrod.
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Without doing any serious mods like drilling out the transfer port or installing a reg I could easily adjust my Marauder down to the high 600fps with just a WAR TSS and a MDS hammer.... I only put two magazines through at that setpoint just to see how many shots I would get, but it wasn't want I needed for my uses so I tuned it back up to 875fps at 2800psi. All I'm saying is that it can be done without a regulator, you just won't have the super consistent shot string as the reservoir pressure goes down.
I beg to differ. Just look at my unregulated .22 Synrod signature with TSS and MDS. 31 shots @ 1.6% ES at ~30 FPE. Much flatter (so far) than my regulated .25 Synrod.
But you don't want to only fill to 2000psi... I doubt it would work so well at those lower pressures.
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buy a scuba tank for $200 bucks and get it filled at you local scuba store for $5 or check you local scuba store and see if you can get a used one at a good price
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Without doing any serious mods like drilling out the transfer port or installing a reg I could easily adjust my Marauder down to the high 600fps with just a WAR TSS and a MDS hammer.... I only put two magazines through at that setpoint just to see how many shots I would get, but it wasn't want I needed for my uses so I tuned it back up to 875fps at 2800psi. All I'm saying is that it can be done without a regulator, you just won't have the super consistent shot string as the reservoir pressure goes down.
I beg to differ. Just look at my unregulated .22 Synrod signature with TSS and MDS. 31 shots @ 1.6% ES at ~30 FPE. Much flatter (so far) than my regulated .25 Synrod.
But you don't want to only fill to 2000psi... I doubt it would work so well at those lower pressures.
That fact keeps getting overlooked in this thread. I want to keep the fill to 2000psi, so I don't break too much of a sweat. I am 50 and in good shape, but the fill from 2000 to 2900 is much harder than from 1000 to 2000. The 2000psi fill also gives me the option of using a standard 3000psi SCBA tank for fills.
buy a scuba tank for $200 bucks and get it filled at you local scuba store for $5 or check you local scuba store and see if you can get a used one at a good price
I talked with the local dive shop, and they will sell me a used tank with hydro test for $125. Fills are $7. I'll continue to use my pump for a while and see how that goes. A tank is in my future, though.
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Without doing any serious mods like drilling out the transfer port or installing a reg I could easily adjust my Marauder down to the high 600fps with just a WAR TSS and a MDS hammer.... I only put two magazines through at that setpoint just to see how many shots I would get, but it wasn't want I needed for my uses so I tuned it back up to 875fps at 2800psi. All I'm saying is that it can be done without a regulator, you just won't have the super consistent shot string as the reservoir pressure goes down.
I beg to differ. Just look at my unregulated .22 Synrod signature with TSS and MDS. 31 shots @ 1.6% ES at ~30 FPE. Much flatter (so far) than my regulated .25 Synrod.
But you don't want to only fill to 2000psi... I doubt it would work so well at those lower pressures.
That fact keeps getting overlooked in this thread. I want to keep the fill to 2000psi, so I don't break too much of a sweat. I am 50 and in good shape, but the fill from 2000 to 2900 is much harder than from 1000 to 2000. The 2000psi fill also gives me the option of using a standard 3000psi SCBA tank for fills.
buy a scuba tank for $200 bucks and get it filled at you local scuba store for $5 or check you local scuba store and see if you can get a used one at a good price
I talked with the local dive shop, and they will sell me a used tank with hydro test for $125. Fills are $7. I'll continue to use my pump for a while and see how that goes. A tank is in my future, though.
Well you said you sold the Marauder and ordered the Maximus so no point in going further. I believe you will be happier with the switch and hand pumping. I pumped up my two Marauders yesterday to 3000 and 3100psi from around 2300psi on each (tank running low) and it took a little effort but was not too bad for the rare occasion that I would do this. I do like my tank much better and do shoot more with it.