GTA

Airguns by Make and Model => Crosman Airguns => Topic started by: Madkoifish on May 17, 2011, 12:24:43 AM

Title: My Wallyworld pc77 build
Post by: Madkoifish on May 17, 2011, 12:24:43 AM

Ok I decided this needed it's own thread vs using my old billion questions thread! haha
First lets start off with a price list.
This is current as of April 29th 2011

Partial Crosman Price List

Breeches now ship from a separate warehouse. This results in a additional 4$ shipping (call in vs email or online)

1377sbpk 1760-001 1399a001 1389-010 788b011 781a012

Long Steel Breech 24" Barrel .177ca Shoulder Stock Black Green Backpacker Pump Grip Barrel Support (band) Screw for Band

- 28.99 -  12.08 -  10.87 -  09.45 -  01.79 -  01.15

I do wonder if Crosman would send me a black pump arm if I used part # 2289-010?? Canadian 2289 looks to come with black pump grip.

Barrel do note that it has a flat spot in the middle for a set screw and a flat on the end for the plastic sight. I plan to shroud mine so I'm not too upset about it but atm it looks odd since the forward flat spot it not square to the transfer port. 

Stuff is SUPPOSE to ship via USPS, but everything came UPS I emailed about an update first reply as dodgy (claimed one went usps) second reply (due to server issues) gave me tracking numbers!

As always remember to ask for KIM!

Images to come next, need to load em up etc.

Title: Re: My Wallyworld pc77 build
Post by: .22 Varmint on May 17, 2011, 02:09:54 AM

Looks like you are on the right track to building a great gun. Careful, it's easy to start with a $60 pumper, and end up with a $1000 masterpiece  ;D. I have some links to some great sites that sell parts for the 13XX guns. I post them if you want.

Andrew

Title: Re: My Wallyworld pc77 build
Post by: Madkoifish on May 17, 2011, 03:04:14 AM

Ok here are the pics, got distracted with food!

Good ol UPS for ya. . . .
(http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/9896/pc77009.jpg)
Luckily everything was still in the box even with the gaping hole!

(http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/6393/pc77010.jpg)
(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/2371/pc77011.jpg)

Here it is with the shroud from my trail on, sort of a preview of what is to come. I just need to decide who's shroud I will buy.
(http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/1139/pc77012.jpg)

Once I got all the things on I sent a few down to meet my ventilated pile of cans in the back corner of the yard. I had to double check that it shot anything! It was so quiet. 10 pumps is about as loud as 2 or 3 with the shorter barrel. Pellets are now going deep into the plywood when before they would sit tails out. Took it to the garage/kitchen (I shoot through the kitchen into the garage to get 10~15yds.) Once zeroed I was getting quarter sized groups offhand with a red dot, that well the dot covers about 2 or 3" dai and with my bad eyes. Scoped I can bet it can do dimes offhand.

Up next is either a homemade hinge pin or one from mellon air, Shroud, scope, Flat top piston and valve, pinning the valve, then likely hammer spring foolery. In time I hope to get a straight wire stock and some nice wood grips all around.  Still undecided if I will polish it up or leave it black.  Forgot the probe and bolt handle stuff, these are near on the top of upgrades

Title: Re: My Wallyworld pc77 build
Post by: Madkoifish on May 17, 2011, 03:08:02 AM

Quote from: .22 Varmint on May 17, 2011, 02:09:54 AM

Looks like you are on the right track to building a great gun. Careful, it's easy to start with a $60 pumper, and end up with a $1000 masterpiece  ;D. I have some links to some great sites that sell parts for the 13XX guns. I post them if you want.

Andrew

lol, I already have plans to order a 2289 from Canada to start a 22 toy with a longer pump tube. SO I think the crosman pumper cancer is set in for good. I still have my hb17 I need to do work on as well and get some parts replaced on. That one is going to be more of a DIY gun since I have not found anything in the aftermarket for it. I am used to working on it so when I dug into the pc77 it was like I was working on a toy, the parts are so small vs the hb17. However the pump effort on that gun is horrible compared to the pc77.

Title: Re: My Wallyworld pc77 build
Post by: Singleshooter on May 17, 2011, 10:10:28 AM

Really looking good.  Feeding my fire for my own build of the same gun.  Parts are on the way.

Darrin

Title: Re: My Wallyworld pc77 build
Post by: MountainMan126 on May 17, 2011, 09:47:05 PM

I have taken more starlings and HOSPs with my PC77. Great guns, looks like yours is well on it's way. I just ordered a flow through bolt from Mellon Air. It should be here soon, claims say improved velocity and accuracy. I got before numbers with my chrony and will take some after readings.

Keep us posted on your build,
Ethan

Title: Re: My Wallyworld pc77 build
Post by: Mo.sniper342 on May 17, 2011, 10:02:41 PM

man ya'll are making think "new project"!

Title: Re: My Wallyworld pc77 build
Post by: Madkoifish on May 17, 2011, 10:11:58 PM

Yeah I have plans for one of those, likely on the 22, the 177 I think will get a probe. All likely from mellon too. ATM my stock steel breech bolt hops when I fire. Didnt do it with the shorter barrel. That and well it is not as nice as the plastic breech bolt, the flat sides make it blaringly too short.

We are getting starlings but the boogers never sit still long enough or refuse to land. They have grown wary of the trail np and me. All the HOSPs are skin and beaks from the trail np. I will likely use the 177 on them instead when I get it scoped. (really need a new prescription on my glasses) And well when they come back if ever. . . . lol Figure a corpse is better than meat bomb.


Oddly it seems the gun might have lost some power on 2~3 pumps and gained on 4~10 (I don't go past 10 atm) I usually use 2 or 3 for plinking cans at 10~20yds ATM it wont stick the pellets into the backstop at all. Mostly it is for lazyness and noise, but with the barrel I can go up to 5 or 6 pumps and it is still quieter than with the stock barrel. Im sure things will rise in db when I do the flattop. Not sure what order I want to do thing snow though since parts are now having to be ordered from multiple locations.

Right now I cannot decide if I like the stock or not. Red dots I tend to put right up to my eye. Least with the ones I have owned, closer you are the smaller that dot is, and the less it obscures a small target. Im sure once it is scoped that buttstock will be needed to keep consistency. For now it makes a good kickstand when Im using the binos.


Yeah these guns are addictive! I would be doing more to my HV17 if I had the tools. A lathe mill combo and Id be going insane with projects lol. I really like the gun as a carbine now since even with the weight it is still lighter than my trail np or even my old nickle benji/sher pumper. (still need to locate one again. nickle plated 177)

Title: Re: My Wallyworld pc77 build
Post by: Madkoifish on May 17, 2011, 10:12:48 PM

Quote from: Mo.sniper342 on May 17, 2011, 10:02:41 PM

man ya'll are making think "new project"!

haha I resisted for almost a year. Seeing this all black pumper at wallyworld just sent me over the abyss.

Title: Re: My Wallyworld pc77 build
Post by: DeutschKSK on May 17, 2011, 11:23:43 PM

Looks really nice! I want to get a .24" .177 barrel for mine to see what type of numbers I would get.

Title: Re: My Wallyworld pc77 build
Post by: Madkoifish on May 18, 2011, 09:54:40 PM

I am thinking a 24 on stock internals is overkill. Considering it only makes hammer spring noises at 8 pumps. So the round is probably making max velocity inside the barrel someplace. Rather maxing out on acceleration inside of the barrel. I plan to flat top mine.

BUT I cannot really say anything atm since I do not have a chrono, debating on if it is something Id make use of to spend the 120$
heII though for the $12 + shipping cant hurt to try, if anything you can chop it down. :D

Title: Re: My Wallyworld pc77 build
Post by: dropshot on May 19, 2011, 11:16:31 PM

Soooo how do I go about converting my 177 to 22? Do I just need 22 long breech, the length 22 barrel of my choosing, barrel band and screw?
Your gun looks awesome by the way.
Oh and did you order all of the parts on your parts list from Crosman, if not where did you get the parts?


Thank you,
 Brad

Title: Re: My Wallyworld pc77 build
Post by: Madkoifish on May 20, 2011, 12:00:34 AM

SO far everything is from Crosman.

 177 to 22 is just a 22 bolt and 22 barrel. If you already have a breech and you want to convert you just need the bolt.
The barrel band is needed for the longer barrel.

I would recommend though that you order a solid pump pin at the same time from AC customs or Mellon air. This way when your Crosman order comes in you will have it there. Once that roll pin is screwed with itll keep sliding out on you. Mine refuses to stay put after 4 or 5 shots.
Only thing I look sideways at Mellon is I have to use paypoop, I really hate dealing with them. Constant barrage of spam from them every time I use it.

Title: Re: My Wallyworld pc77 build
Post by: cole5169 on May 20, 2011, 12:28:25 PM

I found some steel rivets at Ace Hardware that fit the pump pivot pin holes perfectly.  They're about .30" too long, but I just use them as temps while I'm fiddling.
If you open the pump arm, to relieve pressure on the pin, they pop right out.
Great for repeated tear-downs until you get your project the way you like it.

You mentioned considering a flat-top piston/faced valve.  I recommend this highly.  Makes a big difference in my builds.  Talk to Alejandro at AC Custom, his stuff is great.

Title: Re: My Wallyworld pc77 build
Post by: bradyman1 on May 20, 2011, 12:32:03 PM

Charlie mellon of mellonair also has nice flat top pistons. I got one from him with the flat top valve and a new pin for the pump arm and I love it.

Title: Re: My Wallyworld pc77 build
Post by: 1377x on May 20, 2011, 12:33:13 PM

mellon and ac both offer payment options other than pay pal it just takes longer

Title: Re: My Wallyworld pc77 build
Post by: dropshot on May 20, 2011, 12:40:49 PM

Quote from: Madkoifish on May 20, 2011, 12:00:34 AM

SO far everything is from Crosman.

 177 to 22 is just a 22 bolt and 22 barrel. If you already have a breech and you want to convert you just need the bolt.
The barrel band is needed for the longer barrel.

I would recommend though that you order a solid pump pin at the same time from AC customs or Mellon air. This way when your Crosman order comes in you will have it there. Once that roll pin is screwed with itll keep sliding out on you. Mine refuses to stay put after 4 or 5 shots.
Only thing I look sideways at Mellon is I have to use paypoop, I really hate dealing with them. Constant barrage of spam from them every time I use it.

I dont have a steel breech, just the stock breech. So will I need  the 177 breech or the 22 breech for conversion? Also do the .177 and .22 have the same power plant? And thanks for the heads up on the roll pin.

Thank you,
 Brad

Title: Re: My Wallyworld pc77 build
Post by: Madkoifish on May 20, 2011, 08:19:09 PM

Plan is a AC piston (weight is a bit of a concern) And a mellon valve. SO I will have a hybrid, mostly because AC is sold out of valves and Im not into sending bits back and forth for the final costs. The whole flat top business though was suppose to wait for a while but I am thinking about placing at least the mellon part of my orders in. The flat top from AC will wait until I have the cash (it would be 60$) and a better idea of how the shrouds fit onto the barrels.  Also I have YET to decide on barrel length for this gun.  18" or leave it at 24"

Mellon piston, only reason Im looking at AC over his is I am unsure if it is adjustable and if it is all nylon, and long term concern for nylon threads on the piston. In RC I have had the stuff fail over time from age and repeated stress. I am tempted to just get it since it is only 15$ and get the AC one later.

Shrouds: Not sure how much is added to length, is there a gap on the barrel are they solid or 3 bits with a hollow tube like the trails shroud. Mostly this is all ???? because I want to to fit right up to the band with no gap.

   Mellon order
-   Bolt (hollow or probe dunno yet)
-   custom bolt handle not sure what style, not sure if I will just order an extra ontop of the one the bolt comes with.
-   Solid pin, thinking of the nylock one to avoid brass on a black and silver gun. He lists sheridan pins, I think these will work on my HB17 so this will be 2 items.

 Oh, forgot to ask. Does anyone else have issues with the bolt handle jumping up after shooting? It seems to do this due to the back pressure of the longer barrel. I have seen this on some of Brutuz's videos. THis is part of the reason I am considering a "custom" handle from mellon over the stock to add weight (one of the large knob deals like his #7 or the 1/2 3/4" they look much longer too)
http://www.mellonair.com/index.php?p=1_6_Custom-Bolt-Handles (http://www.mellonair.com/index.php?p=1_6_Custom-Bolt-Handles)

Title: Re: My Wallyworld pc77 build
Post by: Madkoifish on May 20, 2011, 08:29:05 PM

Quote from: dropshot on May 20, 2011, 12:40:49 PM

Quote from: Madkoifish on May 20, 2011, 12:00:34 AM

SO far everything is from Crosman.

 177 to 22 is just a 22 bolt and 22 barrel. If you already have a breech and you want to convert you just need the bolt.
The barrel band is needed for the longer barrel.

I would recommend though that you order a solid pump pin at the same time from AC customs or Mellon air. This way when your Crosman order comes in you will have it there. Once that roll pin is screwed with itll keep sliding out on you. Mine refuses to stay put after 4 or 5 shots.
Only thing I look sideways at Mellon is I have to use paypoop, I really hate dealing with them. Constant barrage of spam from them every time I use it.

I dont have a steel breech, just the stock breech. So will I need  the 177 breech or the 22 breech for conversion? Also do the .177 and .22 have the same power plant? And thanks for the heads up on the roll pin.

Thank you,
 Brad

22 vs 117 the steel breech is recommend it firms up stuff locks the barrel down (barrel no longer press fits into the pivot band and breech.) and allows one to mount 11mm dovetail accessories like a red dot scope or better sights. SO Id order a 22cal breech KIT and a barrel. Make sure to ask for Kim if you get the crosman breech. Since others out there DO sell brass units or even alum. BUT all in all if you do not care about the breech being plastic all you need is the bolt and barrel

22 internals should all be the same. Only changes would be through the age of the guns. IE older units had a brass valve vs alum, recently the trigger plate has moved to plastic and the grip frame was altered (from what I can tell it was for the HPA pistols, adds a pivot hole location rearward in the grip for additional trigger related bits)

I also recommend this site for a real in depth of what these guns are about and what is out there.
http://www.crosman-air-pistol-owners-forum.com/board/index.php (http://www.crosman-air-pistol-owners-forum.com/board/index.php)

Title: Re: My Wallyworld pc77 build
Post by: slothart on May 20, 2011, 08:54:43 PM

The Mellon piston is adjustable.  It telescopes  and has a small screw used to lock it in place once you have it adjusted where you want it.

Mine was easy to setup.  As far as how well it will age, no idea. 
There are a few things i would like to get from AC Customs and I may purchase one of his pistons at that time (For longevity and aesthetics... I've been using a lot of brass parts in my mod).

You should email AC about the valves, he may have them in stock.  I emailed ham last week about his heavy hammer springs and he has got them back in stock, but he hasn't had a chance to update the website last time I looked...  Could be the same story for the valves.

Title: Re: My Wallyworld pc77 build
Post by: Madkoifish on May 21, 2011, 06:58:36 AM

Well, that annoying pin. Decided to teach some pesky cans whats what and that pin, that pin. . . it just set me off. So looked at Mellon's page, says to drill out the tube to 3/16 well my holes are already that EXACTLY. Well I found this chrome rod I think it is brass. It is threaded on one end and 3 inches+ so hacksaw drills and a metric tap later I have this. Cut it long to file down and leave room for O-rings to protect the tube. I didn't file it enough so a bit of old nitro fuel tube will bodge it for now. I only had stainless metric screws but I figure I will get black steel later on or rummage for them. Went metric because button heads in 4-40 are &^^&. The hex is way too small and strips when small rodents pass wind.  Anyhow Ill post pics when I get some black rings or at least a more final example. hah busy putting hurt on those cans.  ::)
yeah I know that band is loose.

I doubt this will last long but it should hold long enough for me to order the parts I should have ordered last month! heh The chrome finish does make pumping smoother. I also used some teflon washers inside the tube so the pump arm does not flop about. (they are traxxas diff spacers, http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXDEA8&P=7 (http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXDEA8&P=7)  ) The teflon washers used in slot car guides would work too. I just didnt have any of those. They might hold up better and have more "slip" since they are meant to be as slick as possible where the traxxas are just washers to shim diffs drive cups and the like.

I do wonder what is that large milled washer pictured in the mellon images for the pins? I cannot figure out where that would go.

Title: Re: My Wallyworld pc77 build
Post by: slothart on May 21, 2011, 09:42:36 PM

The larger milled washer is pushed into place between the two metal struts of the pump arm to reinforce the outside of the joint.  With the bushing on the inside and the milled washer on the outside, it creates a pretty rock solid pivot point for pumping.

Title: Re: My Wallyworld pc77 build
Post by: dropshot on May 22, 2011, 04:07:05 PM

 Thanks guys for all the info, I appreciate it very much.