GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Crosman Airguns => Topic started by: Theo98 on May 29, 2017, 07:31:00 PM
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Hello,
New to the forum and wondering for a "beginner air pistol", are these Benjamin Trail NP Air Pistol (.177) good for starters? How are the triggers and their accuracy?
Any help is much appreciated! :)
Ted
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Welcome, Ted! Great bunch of folks here.
You'll want to go to the "Air Gun Gate" page 2 for posts on the NP pistol. Be at or near the top of the page.
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A good starter gun would be the Beeman P17, the crosman 13xx series, the crosman 22xx series(co2). All cost less than the NP trail pistol and are easier to mod and add accessories to. Here is the link to the thread about the NP trail pistol. Good luck and welcome to the GTA.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=126982.msg1245074#msg1245074 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=126982.msg1245074#msg1245074)
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Darn, why didn't I think of that!?
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I have the NP. I bought it a couple weeks ago. It's ok for the price, but a little inconsistent through the chrony. Time will tell how the seels hold up.
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Thanks for all the helpful replies! 8)
Just started looking at the .177 NP pistols today...Have A Lot to Learn!! :o
Ted
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Umarex is coming out with a .177 break barrel pistol sometime next month. I'm waiting to see the reviews, but so far it appears it will be a contender with the NP pistol. It has a gas ram with an integrated silencer, so it should be back yard friendly.
https://www.umarexusa.com/products/umarex-trevox (https://www.umarexusa.com/products/umarex-trevox)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7uqkprs-i28 (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7uqkprs-i28)
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Will probably be better than the NP
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Umarex is coming out with a .177 break barrel pistol sometime next month. I'm waiting to see the reviews, but so far it appears it will be a contender with the NP pistol. It has a gas ram with an integrated silencer, so it should be back yard friendly.
Paul,
Thanks for the heads-up and links. The up-coming Umarex Trevox certainly should be competition to the NP's!
Ted
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those guns are just shrunk down GasRam rifles.....
I had a browning B800 magnum break barrel pistol (spring powered) some year back and could never get it to shoot well.... Why? it was huge, similar in size to the tow guns discussed in this post. it has this GIANT chunk of metal inside--the piston-- that changes the balance of the pistol thru the shot cycle.....
you can do a lot to make many of the facets of either of the guns be easier to shoot, but Im of the opinion that low-end ,piston powered pistols are never gonna be accurate or fun to shoot for any length of time.....
I tried making my B800 into a carbine, it did help, but the inherent flaws of the design still mucked with its potential
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Umarex is coming out with a .177 break barrel pistol sometime next month. I'm waiting to see the reviews, but so far it appears it will be a contender with the NP pistol. It has a gas ram with an integrated silencer, so it should be back yard friendly.
Paul,
Thanks for the heads-up and links. The up-coming Umarex Trevox certainly should be competition to the NP's!
Ted
Thanks to all who gave input and suggestions to my question...Very Helpful!
Even thought I'm going to be using an air pistol mostly for TP, I also wanted enough ummmph for rodent control. Went ahead and got the Trail NP air pistol today. Impressed with the build quality and lock-up sturdiness. I'm comfortable with the grip and Barrel\Piston alignment is perfect...absolutely no air leaks. Tried the cocking aid...that didn't last long as I have no issues with using just the barrel length. Out of the gate, a lot of inconsistency at 10 yds. with my Benji 7.9 HP .177 pellets, but that all settled down to 1" groupings after the first 100 rounds! 8)
Sights are okay, but for some strange reason, I have to have the windage all the way to the right, as it kept wanting to shoot 4-6" to the left. Have a reflex red dot scope that I will mount by this weekend, hoping to tighten up the groups even more. The single stage trigger has about 1" of creep with a clean break. If I keep it, I'll be tuning it to a shorter take-up and lower weight break point, that should also help accuracy!
When the Trevox comes out, probably will get it to compare to the Trail NP, as these two are in the same price bracket! The winner I'll keep, the loser will probably go to one of my boys, for Their boys to use and learn Gun Safety!! ;)
Ted
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...but for some strange reason, I have to have the windage all the way to the right, as it kept wanting to shoot 4-6" to the left...
After getting around 250 rounds through the barrel, was getting quarter sized groupings @ 10yds, with a trigger smoothness\pull that I could live with! However, not only was the windage 35 clicks to the right, but I was bottomed out on the elevation as it had been staying consistently high. Even had to bend the back of the rear sight down a little to get POI on target...Puzzling???
Finally, a light went off (no, didn't shoot it). With it unloaded and uncocked, looked down the front of the barrel and to my eyes, it appeared the fixed front sight was "Canted" about 5 degrees. I put the pistol in my work vise, got out my digital angle instrument and measured 3.8 degrees of cant to the right... :o :-\ :'( !! The Front sight is glued on the barrel not perpendicular to the level of the pistol and there are No Adjustments. This right hand cant is what caused the need to max out windage (to the right) and elevation (all the way down) to get POI in the bulls eye!?!? Even though I'll eventually be putting a red dot scope on it, I still want the opportunity to use iron sights that are set "ACCURATELY"!
Have an exchange coming ASAP and this time, guess what I'm going to check FIRST when I open the OEM box!!!
Ted
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Where did you purchase it? I saw one at Wally-World the other day for $67, it was tempting, but I think I'm going to hold out till they release the Trevox. I have a Hatsan Mod 25 Supercharger in .22 (but it's HUGE), so I'm really wanting to add a .177 break barrel pistol to the arsenal. Here's a picture of it next to my 1377...
I like the idea of the incorporated suppressor in the Trevox. How loud is your NP? I know my Hatsan can sound like a .22 rimfire going off, and my 2240 is even louder. Looking for a quiet pistol I can take to the woods with me and not alert everything within a mile of me of my presence!
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Where did you purchase it? I saw one at Wally-World the other day for $67, it was tempting, but I think I'm going to hold out till they release the Trevox. I have a Hatsan Mod 25 Supercharger in .22 (but it's HUGE), so I'm really wanting to add a .177 break barrel pistol to the arsenal. Here's a picture of it next to my 1377...
I like the idea of the incorporated suppressor in the Trevox. How loud is your NP? I know my Hatsan can sound like a .22 rimfire going off, and my 2240 is even louder. Looking for a quiet pistol I can take to the woods with me and not alert everything within a mile of me of my presence!
Hi Paul,
Obtained mine from Amazon ($64 & free shipping-now awaiting an exchange unit)! Looked at the Hatsan .177, but the 58lbs of break barrel cocking force just puts me off. The 25# of the Trail NP is no problem w\o the included cocking aid!
With my SLPM set at a "C" weighted average (full sound spectrum), 5 average shots of this Trail NP pistol at 6" below and 2" out from the the muzzle plane registered a surprisingly low 69db!!
However, within 4" of my ear displayed an average of 82db, as the NP action seems to be Louder than the down range shot report!! Just be aware, YMMV! ::)
Probably will get the Trevox when available and put it through the paces and report back my findings!
Ted
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However, within 4" of my ear displayed an average of 82db, as the NP action seems to be Louder than the down range shot report!! Just be aware, YMMV! ::)
Ted
I believe that is the case with most of my springers! Although the 2240 is definitely the loudest I have, and it's CO2, so no moving parts to blame there. In my rifles, my Gamo Whisper Fusion is the second quietest rifle I own using heavy lead pellets, but you put some 5.4gr PBA's through it and it sounds like a 30-06 going off!
My Umarex Fusion is by far the quietest gun I own, CO2 with a pretty good suppressor, my wife doesn't even know I'm out back shooting when I'm shooting that one.
I've tried to measure the sound levels using one of those db apps on my iPhone, but I'm either not doing it right, or they don't really work because I seem to get the same reading regardless of the gun I'm shooting!
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...my wife doesn't even know I'm out back shooting when I'm shooting that one..
Paul,
Forgot to mention, my measurements were taken inside my workshop. A couple of shots were with SHMBO standing there, about 4ft to my right. She was Surprised at how "quiet" the overall shots were!!
In the outdoors (no reflections), these readings will drop quickly...believe the Trail NP will be Plenty Stealthy! 8)
Ted
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Thanks, good to know! If Umarex delays release beyond my capability to be patient, I may have to pick up a NP2! I'm sure there are deals out there, I just need to start looking!
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Thanks, good to know! If Umarex delays release beyond my capability to be patient, I may have to pick up a NP2! I'm sure there are deals out there, I just need to start looking!
FWIW, AGD (http://www.airgundepot.com/benjamin-trail-np-pellet-pistol.html) has good re-furbes (many positive reviews) for around $55 shipped. Almost went there, but for 9 more, got new from AMZ (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AU6DE4I/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1) !
Ted
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Thanks, good to know! If Umarex delays release beyond my capability to be patient, I may have to pick up a NP2! I'm sure there are deals out there, I just need to start looking!
FWIW, AGD (http://www.airgundepot.com/benjamin-trail-np-pellet-pistol.html) has good re-furbes (many positive reviews) for around $55 shipped. Almost went there, but for 9 more, got new from AMZ (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AU6DE4I/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1) !
Ted
Walmart has refurbs for $44.90 with free shipping! I'm getting tempted!
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Walmart has refurbs for $44.90 with free shipping! I'm getting tempted!
That's a Good Deal, PaPa! In real good condition, well worth those bucks! :D
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Walmart has refurbs for $44.90 with free shipping! I'm getting tempted!
That's a Good Deal, PaPa! In real good condition, well worth those bucks! :D
Dang you Ted, I did it! I ordered the refurb NP Pistol! At least at Walmart if it's not as good as new, I'll have no problem returning it... It will be here Wednesday! I hope you're happy! LOL! ;D
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Walmart has refurbs for $44.90 with free shipping! I'm getting tempted!
That's a Good Deal, PaPa! In real good condition, well worth those bucks! :D
Dang you Ted, I did it! I ordered the refurb NP Pistol! At least at Walmart if it's not as good as new, I'll have no problem returning it... It will be here Wednesday! I hope you're happy! LOL! ;D
HeHe, get's em every time! ::)
Paul, I spoke with Crosman this past week...they go through their returned pistols so that the refurbed sale units are as good as the new ones! Put a lot of lead downrange just to be assured of a good one and make sure Walmart will back-up the sale for at least 30-days!!
This is my 1st air pistol and I really enjoy shooting it. Seems to be improving and honing my "just fair" pistol skills and hopefully will help me to be a better center fire sportsman!
Enjoy!!! ;D
Ted
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God to know Crosman takes their time to ensure things are done right. That makes me feel better about getting a refurb. Although, my Gamo Whisper Fusion is a refurb, and as of now, it's by far the best shooter I own!
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Have my Trail NP replacement also showing up Wednesday 14th! If the front sight is on Straight this time (see issue HERE (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=127180.msg1254019#msg1254019) ), will put it through the paces and see what it does (or I can do) after the recommended 250 rounds break-in period!
FWIW, I also have the new Umarex Trevox .177 pistol on pre-order with PA (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/umarex-trevox-air-pistol?m=4355), should be in stock and delivered mid-week coming! Received an e-mail from Umarex (https://www.umarexusa.com/products/umarex-trevox?variant=37609124106) that they are now in their inventory (and for sale direct) and was told the Trevox will also be sold by Cabela's (http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=2519351&displayTab=Customer%20Reviews) .
Once I have both break barrels through their break-in periods, will try various style\size pellets (have RWS pellet sampler pack coming) and report back performances, ergonomics and general handling comparisons!
Ted
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Looking forward to your comparison Ted! Well, my NP Pistol arrived on Tuesday and was back to Walmart yesterday! Even with the cock assist attached, I had to literally bang the top of the assist to break open the barrel! Once open, it seemed smooth and closed with absolutely no effort, in fact it almost didn't appear to close all the way until you tried to open it again, and then you had to beat it with your fist! Even after running about 20 pellets through it (which was the bout the time I wore out from trying to open it) it still had not loosened up any, and there was virtually no way to open it without banging the top of the cocking assist thing! Anyway, it went back and I''l just wait for your Trevox review before I decide if I'll head down that road!
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Where did you purchase it? I saw one at Wally-World the other day for $67, it was tempting, but I think I'm going to hold out till they release the Trevox. I have a Hatsan Mod 25 Supercharger in .22 (but it's HUGE), so I'm really wanting to add a .177 break barrel pistol to the arsenal. Here's a picture of it next to my 1377...
I like the idea of the incorporated suppressor in the Trevox. How loud is your NP? I know my Hatsan can sound like a .22 rimfire going off, and my 2240 is even louder. Looking for a quiet pistol I can take to the woods with me and not alert everything within a mile of me of my presence!
I bought a Hatsan 25 Supercharger in .22 too, after playing with Crosman NP. I could never get the Crosman to shoot, the trigger was stiff and unable to be adjusted. The Hatsan is hard to cock, good exercise. The trigger is adjustable and works good. Short break in time and it's acceptably accurate.
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Where did you purchase it? I saw one at Wally-World the other day for $67, it was tempting, but I think I'm going to hold out till they release the Trevox. I have a Hatsan Mod 25 Supercharger in .22 (but it's HUGE), so I'm really wanting to add a .177 break barrel pistol to the arsenal. Here's a picture of it next to my 1377...
I like the idea of the incorporated suppressor in the Trevox. How loud is your NP? I know my Hatsan can sound like a .22 rimfire going off, and my 2240 is even louder. Looking for a quiet pistol I can take to the woods with me and not alert everything within a mile of me of my presence!
I bought a Hatsan 25 Supercharger in .22 too, after playing with Crosman NP. I could never get the Crosman to shoot, the trigger was stiff and unable to be adjusted. The Hatsan is hard to cock, good exercise. The trigger is adjustable and works good. Short break in time and it's acceptably accurate.
My Hatsan 25 is a real work out also, but at least I could break the barrel to cock and load it. I do like the Quattro Trigger on the Hatsan, huge difference from the Trail NP trigger. It will be interesting to see if the Trevox trigger is adjustable, and how hard/easy it is to cock and load!
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Very happy with my .177 cal Hatsan 25 Supercharger Vortex. Yes it is large, like all Hatsan products, but very accurate. It is my go to "Yard Gun" and I have taken starlings at over 30 yards with it. I do have a 2X pistol scope on mine.
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The Hatsan Model 25 pistol has a cocking effort of 58lbs. I have the .22 version. More accurate than the NP Trail.
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Looking forward to your comparison Ted! Well, my NP Pistol arrived on Tuesday and was back to Walmart yesterday! Even with the cock assist attached, I had to literally bang the top of the assist to break open the barrel! Once open, it seemed smooth and closed with absolutely no effort, in fact it almost didn't appear to close all the way until you tried to open it again, and then you had to beat it with your fist! Even after running about 20 pellets through it (which was the bout the time I wore out from trying to open it) it still had not loosened up any, and there was virtually no way to open it without banging the top of the cocking assist thing! Anyway, it went back and I''l just wait for your Trevox review before I decide if I'll head down that road!
Paul,
Wow, something must not have been "right" with yours. Got in my 2nd Trail NP and just like the first, a "firm tap" on the muzzle (no cocking assist) easily breaks loose the barrel holding pin, ready for cocking the nitro piston. This particular unit has a squared-up front sight so after the recommended 250 shot break-in period, windage and elevation settings are right at my expectations for 10yd. indoor shooting! During the long break-in period shots were all over and under-powered (a lot of ricochets off my 3" thick wood target backdrop), but settled into nice 1" to 2" size bulls-eye groupings that just penetrate the surface 3\4" plywood. I have no chronograph to check velocities. My Lyman trigger gauge shows a 7# pull (breaks crisp with no creep), but still has 1" of travel. I haven't tried to fine tune that...Yet!
PA has the Trevox on BO, now suppose to be back in stock July 1st. Will be another 3 or so weeks before I get my hands on this new .177 pistol for review and comparison...oh well... ::)
Ted
BTW: HAPPY FATHERS DAY to All the dads out there!!! :)
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Ted, glad to hear your new NP is a good one. I just wonder of the refurb I received wasn't referred enough? Had to say why they get returned to begin with, but since I have a Hatsan Supercharger for my weekly workout, I didn't see a need for a second pistol that would wear me out shooting it! I'll wait get you views on the Trevox! I might come quicker, I have had back-ordered stuff from both PA and AGD and it seems they always manage to ship before the date they say they will be available!
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I understand Crosman has made improvements to the NP Trail. I sure hope so. I bought one about 3 years ago and couldn't wait to send that POS back to AGD for a refund. I ran out of elevation adjustment and was still hitting 3" low at 20 feet. That was my only bad experience with buying an Air Gun online. I was charged a 15% restocking fee after waiting 3 weeks + for them to even decide that. It all ended good because I put the refund towards the Nitro Venom Dusk in .177 for $114.
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Didn't I read somewhere that leaving the muzzle brake on the Trail Pistol affects accuracy and point of impact?
Here is another break barrel pistol that is pretty much an unknown:
https://www.amazon.com/Swiss-Arms-Mod-Fire-Break-Barrel/dp/B01N9VLE7P/ref=sr_1_6?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1497900035&sr=1-6&keywords=Swiss+Arms+pistol (https://www.amazon.com/Swiss-Arms-Mod-Fire-Break-Barrel/dp/B01N9VLE7P/ref=sr_1_6?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1497900035&sr=1-6&keywords=Swiss+Arms+pistol)
I actually ordered one of these, then got disgusted with Amazon dragging their feet in shipping it, so cancelled the order. The reviews are no help in sizing up this airgun. The first one said he broke the stock off. That's what I like about the Hatsan model 25's with the detachable butt stock. But, they are spendy.....
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My 2nd Trail NP has been returned for credit:
1.With all the dieseling and smoking during the 1st 200 rounds, I was seeing (and feeling) around 50% ricochets off my 3" target backdrop. I suspected an overall loss of power, so purchased a Competition El Pro Pal chronograph with their indoor light system. Shooting my Benjamin 7.9g HP's, after 50 rounds at 10 yds had a high fps of only 440 and lows at 400, with an average of just 425 fps. My suspicion was confirmed, as this average is at least 20% under the rating of standard lead pellet velocities.
2. This 2nd pistol was ordered new, but received unit had a dull washed out Blued-metal finish that wouldn't clean up. Looked used and felt used.
3. Although better than the 1st Trail NP (to shoot bulls eye, had maxed out windage [35 clicks to the right] and maxed out elevation [bottomed out and bent down rear sight]-all due to 3.8 degree cant to the right front sight), these 2nd NP iron sights were more reasonably set for a 10 yd. bulls eye (windage 20 clicks to the right and elevation 15 clicks up)-all due to a 1.8 degree front sight cant to the right!!
Along with the chronograph eq., I rolled the dice on another "New" 3rd Benjamin Trail NP pistol. So far, seems 3rd time Is the charm!
Front sight is perfectly 90 deg squared on the muzzle (no cant left or right). Out of the box with windage dead even and elevation at zero, was hitting around my POI with an occasional flyer. Break-in time was much quicker with almost zero dieseling and very little smoke. This pistol was peaking close to 560fps with my Benjie 7.9g HP's and after break in (about 200 rounds), leveled out with 5-group averages of 540fps and usually less than 10 on the low end variances (530fps)! Out of those 200, I had very few ricochets with 98% of the lead embedded in the 3" target wood backstop! My last 5-shot group of the day (all hand held) was a descent 1" grouping (still using the iron sights). Tomorrow, will be adding the RioRand Red-Dot sight to help tightened up groupings even more! ;)
I like this .177 pistol (3rd iteration), but also have the new Umarex Trevox from PA coming on Tuesday, along with a RWS pellet sampler pack. Going on vacation, so will probably delay the break-in and through-the-paces evaluation\comparisons till I get back!
Ted
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PA delivery of my Umarex Trevox is pushed back to after the start of our vacation, thus thought I'd post some pics of the Benjamin Trail NP Keeper for the time being!
All targets shot hand held with Benji 7.9g HP's at 10yd distances (inside workshop), average 540 fps, average sound at muzzle 75db, trigger pull 7lbs:
*1st target photo (1\2" cross) are the iron sights after break-in, a solid 5-shot 1" grouping.
*2nd and 3rd photos are with the RioRand red-dot reflex scope installed and sighted in. These two targets were 4-shot groups at 1\2" POI bulls eyes, each with an "I pulled it" flyer!
Haven't been able to take it outside yet to sight in at 25+ yards, but still have the maximum elevation travel for any distance adjustments.
If the Trevox shoots as accurate, then ergonomics and handling may end up being the subtle differences as to which I like best...will be interesting! ;)
Ted
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I tried two different NP pistols from Wal-mart a couple of years ago. Neither one would hold zero, both of them maxed out the sites, and the cocking aid drove me crazy.
I took both of them back to Walmart for a refund.
I then ordered the gas piston Hatsan Model 25 Supercharger Vortex Air Pistol for $125 at Field Supply. They are now around $160.
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/hatsan-model-25-supercharger-vortex-air-pistol?m=3419 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/hatsan-model-25-supercharger-vortex-air-pistol?m=3419)
Even though it was twice as much, I liked it so well I ordered a second for when my friends come over to shoot. They shoot in the upper 600s and they are very accurate. The cocking aid screws on and is much more stable than the NP. Even though it was double the price, I am happy with the Hatson's performance.
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Back from vacation and along with bills, the Umarex Trevox .177 was waiting for me. This is a nice solidly built pistol that has good ergonomics, balance and finish. It comes in a HD clear plastic molded packaging, cheap looking (like a toy), but the unit was well protected (took 10 minutes just to get it out of there). Started with my Benjamin 7.9g HP for the first 150 break-in rounds. Dieseled and smoked some, but after a few initial 528 to 530 fps shots, settled out to around 500 fps averages. The long 10" barrel, with its built in reinforced suppressor shroud, makes this break barrel easy to grip and a joy to cock. Overall noise report is around 76db at the muzzle, just a little higher than my Trail NP. Lock up to the receiver is very solid and achieved with a strong spring loaded ball bearing. The blued finish is well done and the ambidextrous grip feels a little small, but I have no issues with a secured shooting stance. The front sight is mounted back from the breech and out of the way while cocking the nitrogen piston. The built in rear sight is also sleek and works okay, but has a cheap screw for elevation adjustments (keep a 1\4" flat head handy) and a flimsy small windage knob. In all, It works well enough to get on target. Trigger pull was 7.1 lbs, but unfortunately after 250 rounds, has gotten a little stiffer, with a final sear break that is somewhat jerky...will need future attention!
I then tried a RWS lead pellet sampler pack and found the RWS 7.0g Hobby wad cutters (av. 537fps) to shoot the best! At my standard indoor 10yd range hand-held, got a 5-shot 5\8" group with the iron sights and a 5-shot 1\2" group with the RioRand red dot reflex scope! Pellets the Trevox didn't like...Benjamin 7.9 HP, Crosman 7.4 Target WC, RWS 6.9 SHP and RWS Meisterkugeln 7.0 WC...groupings ranged from 1 1\8" (RWS MEIS.) to 3 3\4" (Crosman Target WC). Think I'll stick with the RWS Hobby WC's for the Trevox to devour!
Overall, the Trevox is 18" long, over 2" longer than the Trail NP (w\o cocking aid). Weight is about the same, but the Trevox's "more-froward" grip lends itself to a lighter balanced feel and stance. My large hands grip the Trail NP's checkered finish better, but I have no issues with the smooth, finger grooved Trevox. I find the Trail NP to be slightly more accurate, but that could be attributable to the smoother trigger break of the final stage sear. With the same pellet weights, velocities are about 40fps higher in my Trail NP (RWS Hobby 7.0g WC hitting 580fps). Break barrel ease and comfort goes to the Trevox, but I have no issues with the Trail NP. Both pistols can be obtained from vendors for around $70, a really good deal for plunking and target activity fun. However, till I can lower the trigger pulls, travels and smooth out the final sear breaks, I'm not going to comment yet on which I'd keep, if I had to pick "just one"...stay tuned for future developments!
Ted
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Trigger pull was 7.1 lbs, but unfortunately after 250 rounds, has gotten a little stiffer, with a final sear break that is somewhat jerky...will need future attention!
A reviewer of the Trevox on PA (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/umarex-trevox-air-pistol?m=4355) commented on his trigger work. Took his advice and replaced the M5X8mm trigger travel screw with a M5X15mm that I had in the workshop. Overall pre-travel is reduced by almost half with the safety working perfectly! Could take out even more pre-travel with this longer screw, but then the safety can't be set. Lubed the 3 trigger sear pivoting pins in-place with RWS syn. chamber oil and ended up reducing trigger to a consistent 6 1\4# pull (was up to 7 3\4#) with a smooth and even sear break! Now, easier to get repeatable hand-held 10yd 1\2" groupings with my R. Dot reflex scope!!
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I bought one from a member on here, ( benji NP trail pistol). I had a bit of trouble with the sights till I moved them around and got it to shoot elevation where I had a good amount of adjustment. It was blowing air out the breech a bit so I shimmed the seal, and put a stouter spring in the alive jam on the breech. This brought my FPS up considerably. I also put a longer adjustment screw in the trigger and that helped with the travel and pull a bit. All in all if you put a little work into them they shoot well. Mine will penetrate a vegetable can now at about 10 yards. Accuracy was good as it was broke in when I got it so I didn't have to do the break in thing. I use the lever to cock it, and if you make sure it doesn't clip the pellet I have found no difference in the way it hits the target. I like it and soot it often along with my old Gamo Falcon spring under lever pistol. Bought that back in the eighties and it still performs well and never had it apart...yet ;) .
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A reviewer of the Trevox on PA (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/umarex-trevox-air-pistol?m=4355) commented on his trigger work. Took his advice and replaced the M5X8mm trigger travel screw with a M5X15mm that I had in the workshop. Overall pre-travel is reduced by almost half with the safety working perfectly! Could take out even more pre-travel with this longer screw, but then the safety can't be set. Lubed the 3 trigger sear pivoting pins in-place with RWS syn. chamber oil and ended up reducing trigger to a consistent 6 1\4# pull (was up to 7 3\4#) with a smooth and even sear break! Now, easier to get repeatable hand-held 10yd 1\2" groupings with my R. Dot reflex scope!!
The Trevox trigger attention has paid off. After 150 leads downrange, pull is now right under 6# (peaked at over 8# before TLC)...still a little long at 3\4", but crisp and clean. I was able to get a 5\16" grouping with the RWS Hobby 7.0g WC's @539 fps.
As far as the Trail NP, replaced the 3M x 7mm trigger with a 3M x 8mm trigger screw (9mm too long for the 1st sear contact). Rounded the tip and added TW25 synthetic lube to it and all three sear contact areas. Travel was reduced by 1\3 and trigger pull went from 7# to a very smooth and clean breaking 5 1\4#. Achieved a 3\8" grouping with the same RWS Hobby 7.0g WC's @ 575fps!
Believe I could obtain even smaller 10yd groupings with either pistol, just have to get set up with a stable rest instead of a two hand-hold stance. No doubt, either shoot better than I can!! ;)
Ted
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The saga of the .177 Pellet pistols for this beginner continues...
Been enjoying both the Trail NP and the Trevox. With red dot scopes and the TLC trigger work (mentioned in post # 37 & 39), can achieve under 1\2" groupings at my 10 yd indoor workshop range. I'm still putting in practice time to shoot hand-held consistently, but most groups I still pull one shot out of a 5-grouping set.
After suggestions and reading many reviews, decided to try the Beeman P 17 .177 pellet pistol (just $33 from Amazon). Dang, this is a FUN pistol! Balance, grip and size is amazing (over piston charging) and the trigger is out-of-the-box sweet (short travel-clean 2.5# break). Due to the over-lever pneumatic power-plant, there's No recoil or break in and I was hitting tight groupings as soon as I got the FO sights set (within first 20 shots). Actually, I like the FO sights better on the P17 than the others. The pistol grip feels great and fits my large hands perfectly. With RWS Hobby 7.0g WC's shooting at 415 fps...even got one grouping of .375", but still need plenty of practice to be more consistent. After the 1st 150 rounds, installed a low profile RR red dot reflex scope, now a little more consistent getting 1\2" groups. The P17 doesn't hit as hard as the Trail or Trevox, but it's proving to be a great target plinker!
Due to the non-break barrel cocking, took me a few rounds to get comfortable with the top receiver swing-breech loading-final compression closure, but all that is easily 2nd nature now. Even with the scope installed, the effort to close isn't an issue for me, just use my fingers on the receiver outside rails instead of my palm on the back dovetail. As I always set the safety on the Trail and Trevox before cocking, I appreciate the auto safety upon opening of the P 17. I find the shot report indoors a little "loud" (83db) and 7 to 8 db more than the break barrels, but not annoyingly so and still choose to wear hearing protection. Overall, the ergonomics of the P17 (lighter, smaller, conventional pistol style, good trigger) and the lower cost (1\2 of the others) makes this Beeman one sweet shooter and a great deal for air gunning Fun!!
8-7-17 Update: Got another 250+ RWS Hobby 7.0g WC's through the P17 with the R.Dot Reflex scope installed. Velocity has settled out to 410fps averages (411 high, 409 low) and trigger pull is still a smooth and clean breaking 2.5#. When I don't pull a shot with the P17, I can achieve under 1\4" hand-held 5-shot groupings (see target pic I added below). Both the NP Trail & Trevox pistols I can get consistent 1\2" groupings with their red dot reflex scopes, but their heavier triggers are preventing any tighter groups from readily appearing. For ultimate accuracy, the Beeman P17 will be my primary 10yd bulls eye precision tool. For pest control and general 20yd+ plinking, the Benjamin Trail NP & Umarex Trevox (with their "quieter" reporting, easier cocking, harder hitting velocities and non-replica looks) will be my main outdoors fun! ;D
Ted
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A good starter gun would be the Beeman P17...cost less than the NP trail pistol and are easier to mod and add accessories to...
Kris,
Finally took your original P17 suggestion (see post # 40 above). Now getting close to same hole groupings and started posting more info in the MIC gate on the New P17 Owner (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=130396.msg1293439#msg1293439) thread. Slower velocities are a non-issue as I plan to practice and train for 10m target accuracy and proficiency. I agree, it is a good starter gun...certainly can assist honing proper shooting skills, maybe even paralleling some of the high dollar match pistols in performance!
Thanks for the heads-up input!! ;)
Ted
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A good starter gun would be the Beeman P17...cost less than the NP trail pistol and are easier to mod and add accessories to...
Kris,
Finally took your original P17 suggestion (see post # 40 above). Now getting close to same hole groupings and started posting more info in the MIC gate on the New P17 Owner (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=130396.msg1293439#msg1293439) thread. Slower velocities are a non-issue as I plan to practice and train for 10m target accuracy and proficiency. I agree, it is a good starter gun...certainly can assist honing proper shooting skills, maybe even paralleling some of the high dollar match pistols in performance!
Thanks for the heads-up input!! ;)
Ted
Your welcome. I still shoot the dud pistols every now and then for a challenge. The NP is really not that bad of a pistol if it didn't come with so many gremlins. I see walmart is starting to drop the price on them lately. The cheapest I have seen is $54.99 new.
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Your welcome. I still shoot the dud pistols every now and then for a challenge. The NP is really not that bad of a pistol if it didn't come with so many gremlins. I see walmart is starting to drop the price on them lately. The cheapest I have seen is $54.99 new.
$55 new for the Trail NP is about right (if you get a good one). If my lubed\pre-travel adjustment mod holds well, I'll certainly be holding on to mine as it does hit hard with good accuracy and a quiet report! ;)
Ted
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Guess when you're willing and able to take a diamond-in-the-rough and polish it up a little, you can achieve THIS (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=128284.msg1312746#msg1312746) !
Ted
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After shooting another 75 rounds through my "tuned" Benjamin Trail NP (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=128284.msg1312746#msg1312746) (OEM trigger was at 7.1# pull weight with 1" pre-travel), the re-worked 1\4" of trigger pre-travel has settled down to a consistent single stage 1.25# pull, with a smooth, surprising and crisp sear break! This helped me achieve a 5-shot "same hole" grouping today (see 1st target pic)! ???
With my Benjamin success, decided to tackle the Long (1 1\4") & Heavy (6.5#) trigger of my Umarex Trevox. Nice pistol with good ergonomics, but the trigger is a PITB! Being a new Umarex product, couldn't find any information, details or parts diagrams. Took my time and pleasantly discovered the overall disassembly\assembly task was far easier than the trail NP! The trigger components are housed in a heavy duty removable polymer frame that detaches quickly and easily from under the receiver. After polishing the hammer, hammer sear contact points, along with the plastic trigger and plastic trigger sear (smoothed out center mold casting material), removed the "very stiff" 3\16"X1\2" hammer spring and replaced with a much lighter unit (from local hardware store). This took the sear break of 4.5# (no load from nitro piston) to a smooth and consistent 1.5# break. Then, "had to modify the triggers back safety blade" to allow more pre-travel screw adjustment. With the OEM M5X8mm screw, PT was at 1.25". With my installed M5x15mm and the trigger mod, the PT range is now 1\4". Lubed all contact points and reassembled. Discovered once fully re-assembled and cocked, the charged, ready to fire nitrogen piston exerts extra force on the hammer\sear and with 50 or so rounds through it, the trigger has settled out to around a crisp breaking 2nd stage of 3.25#- over HALF of what it use to be (with 80% reduction in pre-travel)! Again, this has helped me today in achieving a 5-shot "same hole" grouping (see 2nd target pic)!! :D
Of course, couldn't let the Trail or Trevox show up the Beeman, so then took out the P17 (3\16" PT with 13oz pull weight) and proceeded to Also shoot a 5-shot "same hole" grouping (see 3rd target pic)!!! ;D
All of these -same hole groupings- were achieved from a home made rest, w\ red dot reflex scopes, indoors at 10 yards. Knowing what these .177's can do and what ammo they like...Now starts the rigors of Hand-Held accuracy training...HELP?!!! :o
Ted
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Nice shooting Ted! I think I'll send all my triggers to you for tweaking, you seem to have broken the code! Nice work!
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Nice shooting Ted! I think I'll send all my triggers to you for tweaking, you seem to have broken the code! Nice work!
Thanks Paul! ;)
Send all of your triggers from your air rifle\pistols to me for accurizing...promise to have them back by Christmas.....2020! :o ;D
Ted
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Nice shooting Ted! I think I'll send all my triggers to you for tweaking, you seem to have broken the code! Nice work!
Thanks Paul! ;)
Send all of your triggers from your air rifle\pistols to me for accurizing...promise to have them back by Christmas.....2020! :o ;D
Ted
I appreciate the offer, but the withdrawals would likely kill me! :o
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I appreciate the offer, but the withdrawals would likely kill me! :o
"THUMBS UP" (not enough e-mo-gees...oh well)! 8)
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I am contemplating to buy one, but I am hestitating since I read about the challenges with the sights. And although it will be a plinker, still...
Does anybody know if this has been solved yet ?
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I am contemplating to buy one, but I am hesitating since I read about the challenges with the sights. And although it will be a plinker, still...
Does anybody know if this has been solved yet ?
RB,
With having to obtain "3" to get a good one (see HERE (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=127180.msg1262457#msg1262457)), then needing to invest time and void the warranty to get a great shooting trigger (see HERE (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=128284.msg1312746#msg1312746)), I hesitate to recommend the Trail NP. ???
For me it was all still worth the effort, as I like the handling, style and accuracy of the Trail NP! However, even if you get a good one, IMHO it still needs detailed work (for advanced tinkerers, gun smith's, tuners) to become a reliable and consistent shooter. :(
The others I have (see sig) are good .177 plinkers, but also required detailed tinkering to get acceptable performances from them. As per my experiences with 4.5mm pistols (newbie...very limited), the quickest, easiest and most accurate performer out-of-the-box was the Beeman P17 (now have "2")! ;)
Hope this helps...
Ted
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Hi Ted, thanks for taking the time to answer my question.
I am not a tinkerer by far..., I don't even like it (unfortunately)...
It is a shame, I like the idea of a gasram in a pistol given teh short locktime. Let me consider some other options then as well and thanks for your suggestions !
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Sorry I couldn't be more helpful RB. As per this thread's post progressions, you can gather that my air pistol knowledge is very limited to what I purchased, shoot and currently own.
You may want to start your own thread with the attributes \ wants \ needs that are important to you. The GTA has many Very Experienced members that I'm sure would share their knowledge and opinions that may help you reach your goal! ;)
Ted