GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => German AirGun Gate => Topic started by: dtdtdtdt on April 07, 2017, 11:12:51 AM
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Here is a summary so you don't have to wade through my pontification!!! Hopefully they will be a reference for you.
The next step, if spring ever reliably arrives (2" of snow this morning), is outdoors. I will try the H&N Green and Field Target Trophy at 50yds as I have their lead counterparts in inventory.
Also, I am attaching the full summary of all tests I have kept for lead and lead-free pellets. A grand total of 101 tests.
Results show that each of these pellets do well in both rifles at low and high energy. If you want to try lead-free pellets, I would start with these. Note that the last pellet in each block is the lead "favorite" of each rifle.
FWB300, Low Energy, 5.1fpe
Gamo Raptor Platinum PBA 5.04gr 702f/s, dome .65AVE .60 .47 .38 .69 .94 .79 *
Winchester Maximum Velocity 4.41gr, 794f/s, dome .62AVE .48 .48 .81 .51 .65 .81
Sig Sauer Wraith Ballistic Alloy 6.65gr 582f/s, dome .67AVE .75 .51 .71 .53 ,58 .93
H&N Baracuda Green 6.57gr, 500f/s, dome .58AVE .44 .60 .58 .69 .48 .71
H&N Field Target Trophy Green 5.56gr, 693f/s, dome .40AVE .41 .35 .40 .42 .42 .40
H&N Match Green 5.24gr, 668f/s, wadcutter .54AVE .49 .56 .60 .56 .66 .38
H&N Finale Match Rifle, 8.13gr, 588f/s, wadcutter .40AVE .33 .41 .30 .42 .46 .36 .46 .36 .35
RWS 54 High Energy, 17.15fpe
Gamo Raptor Platinum PBA 5.04gr 1228f/s, dome .70AVE .74 .83 .74 .71 .44 .71
Winchester Maximum Velocity 4.41gr, 1138f/s, dome .62AVE .50 .50 .59 .75 .74 *
Sig Sauer Wraith Ballistic Alloy 6.65gr 1083f/s, dome .65AVE .54 .64 .71 .41 .83 .56
H&N Baracuda Green 6.57gr, 1068f/s, dome .56AVE .38 .52 .57 .47 .69 .66
H&N Field Target Trophy Green 5.56gr, 1206f/s, dome .66AVE .75 .65 .69 .63 .59 .74
H&N Match Green 5.24gr, 1223f/s, wadcutter .76AVE .95 .75 .61 .47 .64 1.12
Beeman Kodiak Match 10.5gr, 840f/s, dome .58AVE .45 .59 .47 .50 .64 .53 .62 .55 .75 .68 *
The Gamo Platinum pellet in the FWB threw one flyer nearly 4" out of the group. I suspect a defective pellet??
The Baracuda Green showed a very low velocity but still had good accuracy. I suspect it is a bit harder and didn't seal well.
The Field Target Trophy Green matched the average for the FWB's favorite pellet.
Author's note, I am prejudiced against the Gamo pellet for inconsistency if nothing else. Besides I really don't like the heavy marketing campaign for their high velocities with their guns. AS noted earlier, three friends bought into it and were unhappy with their purchases.
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thank you for the data.
other than in 1 pistol that shoots slow I have yet to find any of my rifles that like the PBA ... 7g lead shoots better than the lead free in my rifles, even in the Stoeger X5 which is not a thumper by any means
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Yes.
I have been griping about the HIGH VELOCITY craze for years.
If you are diligent and go through that whole pdf. You will find that FEW pellets of any kind work well above the speed of sound. Also, the lead-free are generally too hard to work at low energies.
The thing that really bugs me is that this study easily showed the problems. I can't understand why the vendors put out such poor pellets. Surely they do some product development and have standard testing procedures. I know that they can't test all rifles but mine are not obscure brands!!!
I rest my case.
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Just for grins...
I tested 24 different non-lead pellets, 44 different lead pellets and a total of 106 tests represented in this data set.
I really need to get a life!! GRIN
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That is great information. Perhaps I missed it, at what distance is the target?
Thank you,
Dave
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All were shot indoors on a 50' range from a Caldwell Tackdriver bag. Rifles are listed below. Velocities with a Chrony brand chronograph. Energies calculated using actual weights and velocities. The pdf of data includes all the tests I have done over the past 3 years or so under the same conditions so should be pretty comparable.
Plan was to do this screening study of both lead and lead-free pellets to be followed by outdoor shooting at 30yds and 50yds with the keepers. 30yd was dropped because of potential disagreement with neighbor that I didn't want to do. A few shots at chipmunks is one thing but a couple days of shooting is quite another. Currently, I plan to take the few listed in the table to the outdoor 50yd range when the weather settles a bit.
I used very strict protocols to test the whole bunch as many had pretty good groups under certain conditions while others were really terrible even at 50'. If you want to read the whole journey look at the older post Lead-free pellets Part 2.
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Thank you, appreciate the effort on your part to put this data together.
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SOMETHING I SHOULD HAVE MENTIONED IN THIS SUMMARY.
The plastic and metal combination pellets appears to BURN a bit in the RWS at higher power. When I cleaned it after the project, the bore was very dirty with black carbon-like deposits. When shooting I smelled burning plastic!!
None of those will ever go through my rifle's bore again!!!
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I finally got outdoors with the RWS 54 and some of the better non-lead and lead pellets!
No real change on the results. I still don't see any compelling reason to use the non-lead pellets unless there are legal issues. The heavier (10.5gr) lead Kodiak did best of all. The Lead Field Target was next best with the lighter non-leads being much more difficult to control and keep accurate.
I shot a few groups at 50 and 100yds. Wind is always an issue at the range I have available to me. I didn't have enough pellets to shoot much more than a few groups so sorry if it isn't too satisfying.
ANYWAY!
Lead Kodiak Match, the RWS54 favorite pellet:
5 shot groups at 50yds: 0.75" and 1.12".
5 shot group at 100yds: 5.5"
Kodiak Comments:
Wind was an issue as was drop. Holdover was appoximately 40" to hit anywhere near the bullseye at 100yd. Scope has mildot reticle with a flattop bar at the bottom of the dots. I had to hold the bar on the bullseye and still hit about 6" low. According to Chairgun Plus with my velocity and actual weight. The drop would have been about 42"
50 yds 5shot groups:
H&N Field Target Lead: 3.5" group.
Field Target Green: 4.25"
Baracuda Green: 4.5"
My excuse on longer range is vision issues. I was having quite a time getting everything together and clear enough to hit well.
I noted that the lighter pellets hit high relative to the lead as one would expect because of higher velocity. I did cull out some shots that should have been counted had I been better on wind management. A few times a gust would move the pellet 5 or more inches off the group. A friend's pinwheel wind gauges at 15 35 and 45 yds would all be pointing different directions while I was trying to shoot between gusts. Obviously, I need a quieter range or a lot more practice.
Cheers
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Thanks for sharing your research! On swirly days, I like to wait until the wind is steady at a speed I know where to aim. Shooting in between the wind could send your trajectory several inches in either direction if it suddenly picks up (you can't even feel 2mph of wind). Shooting with the wind however, you know it will land to the left or right a within a range of only a couple inches total.
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Excellent work, thanks a lot for taking the time. I have a large supply of the 4 gr. Winchesters that I bought specifically for the P17 pistols. They provide good accuracy and step the velocity up a lot. Not really very good at any longer ranges and they do not shoot well at higher velocity (pp700 does not like them at all) but fine for pistol ranges and low power guns. I've had very good results with the 7.33 gr. Air Arms Falcons in several guns (pp700 does one hole with those but slow in P17). Thanks again for the exhaustive comparison.
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Indoors they aren't too bad in general. I don't have any air pistols so can't comment on that. At short ranges they probably would be OK but I don't see the need for my interests.
I also don't have a pcp rifle that might be able to take advantage of the higher velocity but doubt they will perform much different supersonic in one of those.
I maintain that supersonic pellets have issues because of design and air flow around the pellets.
Cheers and good shooting.