GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Hatsan Airguns => Topic started by: Z_Road_Inn on March 04, 2017, 05:47:56 PM
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Bought a Hatsan 125 springer on Flee-Bay. Thanks to this forum I knew a few things to check out on this gun.
I bought it figuring I would be Modding it. Hoping I wouldn't HAVE to do too much to make it shoot good.
Before I did anything with it, I cleaned the bore and pushed some high quality pellets through. The breech block area( 1st 5-1/2 inches) was fairly tight. After that, the pellets just dropped through to the muzzle. My heart sank, I got a dud.
Pulled out the chrony, and more bad news. Even the 11.5 gr pellets couldn't top 800fps.
Don't remember what made me think of it, but I pushed some more pellets through, but this time from the muzzle to the breech. They pushed through with a little, but even and steady pressure. Till they got 5-1/2" from the breech where they got tight. More on this later.
The thing honked like a goose when I cocked it. Low pellet speed. Very accurate though. So I shot an E-Mail to HatsanUSA to see if it was covered under warranty. I gave them a full description of where I bought it, and what I was seeing in the gun. They responded with, "Send us some chronograph readings." I have a Pro Chrono Digital so I ran 6 shots each of 5 different weight pellets, printed-to-file, and sent it in.
Their next communication was just a printable Fed-Ex sticker and an RMA number.
I sent it out a week ago Thursday. Didn't hear any thing from them until the following Thursday,( 2 days ago). All they said was, "We put in a new spring, piston seal, and breech seal and chamfered the breech so it would load easier. Expect a tracking number by end of day".
Didn't get a tracking #, But, today, Saturday, Fed-Ex shows up. I was impressed, and surprised.
It Does shoot much faster, still accurate, and NO Goose honking. And the pellets load easier.
I can not fault their repair turn-around time. Just would like to hear from them, something, tell me you have the gun, tell me you are working on it. Doesn't take any time to write a two line E-Mail. Very un-nerving.
Very fast service though, I couldn't believe how fast I got it back.
That still doesn't fix the Tight-Breech-Loose-Barrel situation. They say it is within spec. I say it can be better. May try my hand at fire lapping. May just use a bore brush and some 1000 grit grinding compound on the breech-block-area, then polish the whole barrel.
I wrote this because I have heard only negatives about Hatsan USA. I wanted people to know they do their job, and they do it fast. I'm Happy Camper.
Maybe ordering parts from them is a totally different story, I don't know.
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I've never needed any warranty work done to my rifles and I own 7 Hatsans, been a very happy guy and why I bought more after the first 2 plus now 5 Hatsan built Webley springers and not a single problem with those either.
I've read more than a few threads from guys just like yours about the lack of communication during a repair but like you, they all got rifles back, repaired well and shot great, so I have to agree they could use a lot of work on their emails skills there.
As far as parts or questions about them, I've always gotten answers the same day I sent my emails and the one order they did screw up for breech seals, I got an email the same day apologizing for their screw up and told the missing seals were on the way with extras to make up for it. They sent me the missing bag of 4 and 11 more for their screw up, so again, I'm a happy guy..lol
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Glad to hear it.
I have wanted a Hatsan 125 for over a year and finally found a deal I liked. Looking forward to building up my left arm with this thing.
I was afraid they were going to find something serious wrong with my gun and replace it with a Vortex. I guess if it came with a better barrel I wouldn't mind, but have heard too many negatives about their gas piston.
This spring I plan to tear it down and inspect everything, hone the cylinder, work the trigger. Looking at a Vortek tune kit.
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I have the Walther badged version of the 125 springer called the Talon Magnum in .22 I bought from another GTA member...shoots JSB 18.1's at 770 for aboyt 24 fpe. Beast to cock, kicks like a small mule but very accurate and if I do my part it will shoot 1 inch or less groups at 30 yards and it's a definite workout.
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Very cool. Looks just like my gun.
I have noticed that if I can't find info on the Hatsan, I can sometimes just re-enter Walther Talon and get results.
I have been told that the parts used on the Walther are more closely inspected and have to meet higher standards. Don't know, but I wouldn't mind getting my hands on a Talon barrel/breech just to check out the bore.
Have you been on the Mike Ellingsworth YouTube channel? "Mr. Stepping Stone"
He has a good many vids on Hatsans and Walther. He tears them up so you don't have to. That's what he says, but it just makes me want to tear into mine all the more.
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I did a little research before I bought the 100x that was on sale a few days ago and the only thing I could find for customer service was more than I expected so I pulled the trigger knowing that they stand behind their products. This is unbelievable customer service.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=98241.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=98241.0)
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I did a little research before I bought the 100x that was on sale a few days ago and the only thing I could find for customer service was more than I expected so I pulled the trigger knowing that they stand behind their products. This is unbelievable customer service.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=98241.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=98241.0)
Indeed. I was impressed.
And I have also been looking at the Torpedos. One of these days I will find someone who thinks a 155 is just too much of a beast, or they don't know how to hold it so it has no accuracy, and be willing to sell it at half price. He, He, He.
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WOW!!!
Just read that whole post you linked to. That is awesome.
On thing they did say,"Our technician has assessed your rifle. The main spring was actually broken in two places. He has also noted excessive amounts of lubrication. Lubrication of the moving parts is only necessary in small amounts, every 250 shots as needed. Also, DO NOT use any type of lubrication in the compression chamber its self, as this can cause dieseling which will quickly damage the rifle. "
I have read that OCCASIONALLY and very SPARINGLY, oil the chamber, and ONLY with Silicone Chamber Oil. And clean as much as you can out before firing. Don't know enough yet. I'm new to under-levers. Just picked up my first one last week. Shoots a little weak, but it's pretty accurate.
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Very cool. Looks just like my gun.
I have noticed that if I can't find info on the Hatsan, I can sometimes just re-enter Walther Talon and get results.
I have been told that the parts used on the Walther are more closely inspected and have to meet higher standards. Don't know, but I wouldn't mind getting my hands on a Talon barrel/breech just to check out the bore.
Have you been on the Mike Ellingsworth YouTube channel? "Mr. Stepping Stone"
He has a good many vids on Hatsans and Walther. He tears them up so you don't have to. That's what he says, but it just makes me want to tear into mine all the more.
Seen more than a few of his videos on Youtube and although he rambles at times, I've learned quite a bit. As far as that silicone chamber oil, DON'T. Back in the day, piston seals were made of leather and the drop or 2 of oil was to help keep the leather supple. Today's rifles use synthetic piston seals that don't need to be oiled and putting it in there will just cause dieseling that can damage the piston seal and the chamber. When/if you decide you want to open things up, there's plenty of threads on the forum about where to get piston seals if you need them and the right kind of lube, these days it's moly paste or Krytox, to use when reassembling the rifle. Hatsan just did all that for you so it should be quite awhile before you need to.
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I used to read this guy's site quite a bit.
http://www.ballisticstudies.com/ (http://www.ballisticstudies.com/)
He's a long range hunter and expert in accurizing barrels.
There's detailed instructions on the site.
But he says to never run a metal brush down the barrel. I believe he might use an undersized brush wrapped in scotchbrite to polish new barrels, and maybe to clean them on occasion.
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WOW!!!
Just read that whole post you linked to. That is awesome.
On thing they did say,"Our technician has assessed your rifle. The main spring was actually broken in two places. He has also noted excessive amounts of lubrication. Lubrication of the moving parts is only necessary in small amounts, every 250 shots as needed. Also, DO NOT use any type of lubrication in the compression chamber its self, as this can cause dieseling which will quickly damage the rifle. "
I have read that OCCASIONALLY and very SPARINGLY, oil the chamber, and ONLY with Silicone Chamber Oil. And clean as much as you can out before firing. Don't know enough yet. I'm new to under-levers. Just picked up my first one last week. Shoots a little weak, but it's pretty accurate.
I read on B.B.Pelletier's blog, that a couple of drops of silicon chamber oil should be put in the muzzle with gun left standing up overnight to let it drain down into the compression chamber about every 1000 to 3000 shots, I think.
Here's the link. Actually there's s few of them.
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2005/03/how-when-why-to-lube-your-spring-guns-piston-seals/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2005/03/how-when-why-to-lube-your-spring-guns-piston-seals/)
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2005/08/lubricating-a-spring-piston-airgun/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2005/08/lubricating-a-spring-piston-airgun/)
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2005/11/lubricating-your-spring-gun-part-1-chambers-mainsprings/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2005/11/lubricating-your-spring-gun-part-1-chambers-mainsprings/)
There may be more parts to this one.
And the video...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9A3pvx95zLI (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9A3pvx95zLI)
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Straight from Motorhead himself when I had the question myself way back when I first joined, a brass brush won't hurt the inside of an air gun barrel. I've used them on at least a half dozen of mine and I've also used Hoppe's bore snakes for cleaning barrels with no harm done.
There's also a barrel cleaning video on Airgun Web done by Rick Eustler and he uses brass brushes and JB Bore Paste for cleaning barrels.
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Well, here's the specific link for breaking in a barrel anyway...if anybody's interested.
http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/How+To+Break+In+a+Rifle+Barrel.html (http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/How+To+Break+In+a+Rifle+Barrel.html)
I would imagine that with the soft lead in pellets, and relatively slow speed, they may not be as sensitive to barrel imperfections as a copper jacketed high speed bullet is.
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Personally, I rarely clean a pellet rifles barrel more than just run a patch or a q-tip through it.
Copper fouling is far more of a concern than leading usually is.
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I wrote this because I have heard only negatives about Hatsan USA. I wanted people to know they do their job, and they do it fast. I'm Happy Camper.
Maybe ordering parts from them is a totally different story, I don't know.
I had my 1st 95QE replaced under warranty and had zero problems. The folks I've communicated with here report the same thing. The only place I could see them doing better is communication, but not all companies are Crosman.
HatsanUSA honors their warranties and provided a fast turnaround on my gun... plus the replacement came with an amazing stock.
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I learned my lession on barrel cleaning long ago, far far away on a Ruger 10/22. I had just finished the hunting season and decided to treat her to a good strip, clean, oil and reassemble. Hoppes #9 down the bore, brass brush with cotton patch on it, the whole works.
Now this .22lr was wearing a Bushnell 3x9x40 and was a tackdriver at 100 yards. I often used once fired 12 and 20 gauge hulls stuck into snow as targets. Never inside of 75 mostly at 100. With a little rest or something to lean on it would pick them off all day long.
So the following spring I grabbed her and went out to my local "range" using the term loosely. It was 100 yards, in an abandoned gravel pit. Had 2 log bench/table things someone had built.
Fired her up. Now she was shooting 12 to 14 inch shotgun patterns instead of my ussual 1" laser groups. Took most of a box of 50 rounds before she really started coming back.
And more like 150 rounds before I could really trust her again.
Nowdays, I push a cotton cloth patch cut to make a fairly snug fit, dampened with ATF. My current bottle is Dextron III. I have a couple of small 1 oz bottles, plastic that I keep in shooting bag, air gun bag, etc. Dampen a dime sized spot on patch, push through. Dry patch. If dry shows more than a hint of gray, I push another damp one through.
To push 4 patch's through takes less time to do than it does to write about it. 5 minutes tops. Then quit. Shoot it till you start seeing a consistent change in accuracy. Ie groups instead of one ragged hole. And over more than 2 days. Because sometimes it is the user not the tool.
I make no claims about this process implied or otherwise.
Only that it works for me, and works well. Your mileage may vary.
What you do may be different than what I do, so I can not be responsible for what you do.
But in 4 years I have seen no ill effects of this regimine on everything from old sheridans to powder burners to the new Hatsan 135 QE Vortex.
PS if you really want to live dangerously, add one or 2 squirts of "Goo Gone" to that ATF.
Apply, wipe it off, you ain't never seen that slick before. But know that you are off the road here, and if you get stuck you have no one to rely on but yourself. But the 2 together make some kind of fusion that is magic on steel for slippery.
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The first 6 rifles I bought I used the brass brush method for cleaning, then I started using the Hoppes bore snakes. All my rifles when I first got them new out of the box had the barrels cleaned before I fired the first pellet through them. By the time I send 75 to 100 down range to settle things in a bit, get a feel for the rifle and trigger, play with the open sights and run strings of 10 over the chrony to get baseline numbers with at least 5 to 6 pellets if not more, they have close to 200 shots fired and have leaded up decent.
Then scopes get mounted and dialed in and I start testing for groups. Unless or until they start showing accuracy issues, I won't clean them again and so far, none of them have and most have close to 1000 shots on them so far.
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This is why, 'I like this forum so much that I joined'.
There is sooooo much information flying around in here, that you can't help but learn stuff.
You ask a question, or post a statement, and every one jumps right in to share their experience. Thanks to all.
Some of what I see in this post I have experienced with my Ruger Airhawk .177, I know I have over 2000 rounds through it
with the number of tins I've gone through in the last 6 years. I've cleaned it twice. When I bought it, and again a couple years ago. Never do anything to it because it is very accurate. A really good 20 to 30 yard gun for small pests, like walnuts that don't want to fall out of the tree on their own. And it will hold 2 inches at 60 yards with 10.5gr premier ultra. I'm half way through my third 500 round tin of those. It loves 'em.
I hope my Hatsan will come around to be as accurate. I had a 75 round work-out with it today to see what it likes. H&N, 14.66 FTT copper made one ragged hole size of a dime at 18 yards, ten shots. Other H&N's made quarter sized groups. JSB's, RWS, it didn't like. But, I don't have enough rounds through it yet. That may change with age. My Ruger also likes the Beeman Kodiak Match, probably try those soon.
But, you all are great. I appreciate all the feedback, and the links to outside sources.
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I had my 95 Vortex .22 repaired by Hatsan a little while ago. The problem was taken care of and the gun returned to me in under two weeks from my initial correspondence. My only cost was the $26 bucks to FedEx it to them. They gave me the option of getting a new rifle or fixing mine. I have nice tiger striping on my stock and the gun is super accurate with RWS Superdomes, so I didn't want to risk a bland stock and so, so, accuracy. Very impressed with their service.
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That's excellent customer service BUT it sure would be nice if they just let the customer know what the status is.
Ed
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Z_Road_Inn: have you tried lapping the barrel yet? I have had good luck (and admittedly, some bad) cold lapping barrels. It seems to me that it's fairly common to have a tight first few inches in these barrels. Seems far fetched, but maybe it is partially due to the extremely tight press-fit of the barrel in the barrel block? Maybe someone with machining skills could answer that one. Anyway, I use cheapo plastic cleaning jags, lots of patches, fine valve grinding compound, and a lot of patience. Might not be as precise as the fire lapping, but won't "open-up" the parts of the barrel that aren't too tight. Anyway, when/if you do lap the barrel, take it slow. The line between dramatically increasing accuracy and absolutely ruining it is a fine line at best, don't ask me how I know. Best of luck, and enjoy your 125!