GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: Goosehunter312 on February 24, 2017, 01:36:26 PM
-
Hi folks,
I have a Benjamin 725 but want to get into PCP. I've been looking at the Hatsan AT44 QE Long in .25 but recently came across the Mrodair M-10 .22 for $270 shipped on the yellow forum. This seems like a great price and even though it's not .25 like I want I don't know if I can pass this up.
Does anyone have experience with this gun that can recommend me one way or the other.
Thanks,
Jason
-
Hi
You might want to wait until the umerix gauntlet comes out
It's a regulated pcp repeater for about $300
Just a suggestion
Dave
-
the m10 is a beast ..and very easy to swap a 25 barrel onto.. Then again, a guy is selling an mrod 25 cal for 375 in the yellow classifieds. I agree with above, id get a gauntlet.anyway, the m10 and all spa guns are really nice.. My plinkster quality is unreal, and the varmint puts the discovery to shame in almost every facet
-
Thanks for the advice. I haven't heard of the gauntlet but I'll do some searching :)
-
ITS likely to be the most popular entry level pcp in the coming months.. Its the only regged gun inder 650 dollars, at less than half the price and should have parts available , unlike the m10 which has no parts supplier.
-
Probably a newbie question but is the regulator adjustable? Lower for more shots and Higher for more power?
-
no idea the guns not even released for sale yet
-
that being said , normal hammer spring adjustments will allow for changes in velocity just like most every other airgun ( barring springers and non stored gas guns )
-
ITS likely to be the most popular entry level pcp in the coming months.. Its the only regged gun inder 650 dollars, at less than half the price and should have parts available , unlike the m10 which has no parts supplier.
If the OP can live with a pistol, the PP700 and variants are available delivered to the door right @ $200. It has adjustable everything. Regulator, hammer spring tension, trigger, and transfer port. We already have several owners here (including myself). For the monies, it's very hard to beat.
The Gauntlet looks like a QB-79 with a shrouded barrel, the aftermarket repeater breech, and a synthetic stock. Willing to bet internally it isn't much different. I own a repeater-breech QB-79, and have spent a couple hours comparing what I have to Gauntlet, and they appear very much the same excepting the barrel and stock. Only problem with the Gauntlet is they are not available in a .25. For that, you have to look elsewhere.
Also very willing to bet the "regulator" in question is the Ninja reg, meaning you can tune it mild or wild, with the understanding if you get much over 1550 PSI, you're likely to blow the 1800 PSI burst disc.
I believe MRodAir can source the parts for the M-10, though in all honesty, the only parts that would be failing are seals. SPA guns tend to be fairly simple.
-
Am working a write up on that rifle (.22)...likely have a initial results sometime Sat. (testing it in "out the box" mode first).
Will repost the first impressions:
This is going to be a different type of test of a .22 MrodAir (SPA) M10.
Let me get this off my chest first. It's a "freebie" test rifle. Becasue it is a "freebie" test rifle, I CANNOT keep it and still be seen as writting an objective review. I'd prefer to NOT keep the rifle and KEEP that objectivity (it's worth way more to me than the $270 as a close out price).
Am going to let my oldest Nephew in Tenn. have first dibs on it (but he's going to have to pony up the $ for a pump or fill tank to get it). If that falls though, will find someonw with a serious itch for a PCP, but lacking the "scratch".
OK...now it's a "loaner" and I can (hopfully) be taken as an evaluator rather than a "shill" (Yeah, had that discussion with the company owner...am free to mention this, as well as encouraged to mention faults found, hopfully to improve the next generation of this rifle).
It's "mine" only in the sense that I'll goof around with it for the next few weeks.
So here is the plan for this rifle.
A. Do the normal stuff for an out-the-box rifle: see if it fuctiongs, check visible screws, clean the barrel, fill the tank and wait over night to check for leaks. read the instruction booklet, etc.
(this is as far as I got so far...along with snapping a few pictures.)
B. First tests will be "out the box". No changes, just fill it up and shoot.
(This will be delayed a day ot two becasue (1) I've signed up to work a spine case tomorrow that is likely to go 14-18 hours and (2) the heavy weight .22 pellets that this rifle likely needs haven't arrived yet.)
C. Keep track of pressure range, good shot count, energy, and at least short range accuracy.
D. Any pellets passing the short range accuracy test move on to longer range (why waste the effort on "duds"?).
E. Any mods done after the intitial test have to be BOTH (1) done with hand tools (although I have better machine tools, figure I'll keep this one "common-man-friendly") and (2) easily reversed (As I'm not keeping the rifle, and the next guy may have oter ideas of what's "right").
OK : First impressions (as it arrived about 7PM) in the dark of the Patio.
SUBJECTIVE DATA:
#1. While I really do like single shots (even in firearms), realize I'm in a minority.
#2. Handling it for 10 min, I was constantly reminded of the BAM 50/51. Not that it has a whole lot of mechaical stuff in common, but it has that same feel to it: big, long, heavy, wood and metal,built like a tank.
#3. Little button safety though the trigger works, is kind of cute in a way, and likely will never be used. At least it's out of the way and doesn't self-set. Do have to say, to my mind, having to touch the trigger to put a gun on or off safe doesn't strike me as a great idea.
#4. It's heavy and feels kind of long (which is one of the reasons it reminds me of the BAM 50/51).
OBJECTIVE DATA:
#5. This is the box. Will keep track of what's claimed/printed on the box.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/M10/315977c8-3501-4a36-8d81-9e7e1da32f89.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/M10/315977c8-3501-4a36-8d81-9e7e1da32f89.jpg.html)
5a. So it's up against advertising of "up to 1000 fps in .22 with 1 gr pellet" (1 gram would equal to 15.4grains). This box-blurb I think is going to happen.
5b. "50-60 powerful shots per fill". So long as you are kind of liberal in the velocity variation of a string, am sure that would happen. IF limiting the shots to 4% variation from max, and equally sure it won't.
#6. This is most of what came in the box. Rife, LDC, spare o-rings, and fill probe. Seems MrodAir/SPA only makes one fill probe; it's pretty much identical to the probe used on the light weight Varminter rifle and their PCP pistol.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/M10/a5ddbccc-0f86-4179-ae29-34d498f3ea94.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/M10/a5ddbccc-0f86-4179-ae29-34d498f3ea94.jpg.html)
#7. The LDC looks to be functional (unlike the the one supplied on the Varmint/Plinker) and will replace the brass thread protector/brake.
#8. Rear half of the bolt is really massive (like .59". 15mm in diameter).
#9. Barrel is pretty darned thick for an airgun (not too surprising considering the bolt size, barrel is also about .59" /15mm in diameter).
#10. Volume is listed as 250CC's. I'll have to test that, but first estimates is that it is near that volume.
LAGNIAPPE (something bonus or extra).
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/M10/5c4e0233-81f0-49b8-82bd-49f562c97e6d.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/M10/5c4e0233-81f0-49b8-82bd-49f562c97e6d.jpg.html)
#11. Inlcuded with the rifle are two custom parts: A second brass transfer port assembly (which isn't like a normal transfer port) and a sear part with a set screw for adjustment.
SENSE OF SCALE:
PCP "Varmint" on the left / M10 on the right.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/M10/3d9c9dce-4c39-413f-8e98-b9fe6a5c1013.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/M10/3d9c9dce-4c39-413f-8e98-b9fe6a5c1013.jpg.html)
OK...it's been cleaned, all the screws checked, filled and left for 24 hours to check for leaks, scope mounted....all I have to do is shoot it (which will start next installment).
-
Excellent write up!
"Do have to say, to my mind, having to touch the trigger to put a gun on or off safe doesn't strike me as a great idea."
Agreed! Not liking in the safety in the trigger guard, but some are better than others.
-
Good news about the safety is that it doesn't self-set, so are free to ignore it.
DAY 2 (actually, only a few hours):
Limited day light, so had a chocie of shooting groups or shooting a shot string over the chronograph.
I picked chronograph. Becasue of that, I may have a change in plans for this rifle.
Got the heavy weight .22 pellets today.
LEft to right/top to bottom:
18gr., 18gr. 19.1gr.
28.5gr., 25.4gr., 21.1gr.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/M10/3a8cc53a-b33d-41c0-aae9-383896eb43d5.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/M10/3a8cc53a-b33d-41c0-aae9-383896eb43d5.jpg.html)
Realize this rifle has HAD NOTHING DONE TO IT (yet), it's as out-the-box as I can stand.
1.Has been gassed up for 2 days, hasn't lost any pressure I can detect.
2. Barrel cleaned and cleaned again.
3. All the screws cheachecked for appropriate tightness.
4. Scope mounted (have seen that old Beeman 3-12X on a lot of PCP's if you've read my posts,,,,it's pretty much kept loose as the "universal doner scope").
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/M10/c03c22ce-20cd-49b1-990c-717e5dcad2fb.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/M10/c03c22ce-20cd-49b1-990c-717e5dcad2fb.jpg.html)
FIRST SHOTS:
Had some emails from MrodAir, mentioning that some rifles had a depinger installed, and that depingr tended to slow the rifles down to "normaly .22 speeds".
Havenint read several reports of the 21.1gr. Baracudas shooting well, and having them be kind of in the middle of the heavy weights, decided to start with them for shronographing.
So was listening on the first shot as well as chronographing.
Filled to 2900psi and started shooting. Will expect it to smooth in a bit over the next 100 shots or so, smooth out, and likely end up running it's sweet spot at a little higher pressure as frcition declines.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/M10/8ea7a4e7-fd95-4fc0-afcf-1997e33e0fe5.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/M10/8ea7a4e7-fd95-4fc0-afcf-1997e33e0fe5.jpg.html)
It did go "ping" from the first shot ...and it did seem fast...so I'm going to have to assume (at least until I go in there and verify) that there is no depinger in place.
Never having shot the rifle, shot it MORE than was reasonable in one string. Just too much velocity varation (140fps) in 45 shots (but I wanted to see about the box-blurb claims of 40-60 shots).
From quick measurements, and keeping track of how many pump strokes it takes to fill this tube from 0-2900psi, am pretty well convienced the volume is more like 260-275 CC's, so am going to use 270 for efficieny calculations. If it turns out later to really be 250-255 cc's, the the efficiency rating would be higher than shown.
CHECKING OUT THE TWO BOX-CLAIMS:
#1. It did manage to shoot +40 "powerful" shots, like the box claimed. They made no calims about how close togeter the shots were.
#2. Think it likely to shoot at or over 1000sps with 15.4gr. pellets if it can manage 981fps with 21.1gr.
REALITY CHECK:
1.Out-the-box (not broken in) it runs it's best from 2500-2600psi to about 1700psi.
2. It is not a gas hog. Not great air use, but not too bad for a .22 of this power level running un-tuned.
3. IF it I were going to keep it, could easily live with the above (at least if accuracy prooved to be good...which I'll be checking tomorrow).
PREDICTIVE THINKING: Thinking of what "COULD" be.
Think this one has 20 shots, inside of 4% variation, at +50 foot pounds written all over it.
1. Increasing the spring tension would get it to run well at pressures closer to max (more like 2800psi than the 2500psi it favors now).
2. Increasing operating pressure likely would increase energy.
3. Using a heavier pellet would also likely increase energy.
4. Shooting enough to break it in/run with less friction would also likely boose energy a bit.
WHERE TO GO FOR THE NEXT TESTS?
1. The trigger suxs. There is a "bonus" sear with an adjusting screw added. I WILL be putting that in tomorrow AM.
2. There is a reduced transfer port (4mm vs what I belive to be a 5mm port in there now). Would be un courtious of me not to give that at least a try.
3. Test accuracy of the heavy weights (and maybe the lighter weights depening on #2 above goes). Fast don't mean "ship" if you can't cluster them on target.
-
Watching this one with interest. I have a P12 and have handled an M10.
-
Really impressive thus far on the M-10. It looks like with some careful tuning this thing go either straight to Beast-Mode or backed off and become a flock of HOSPs or horde of tree-rat's worst nightmare. I like what I'm seeing!
Watching this one with interest. I have a P12 and have handled an M10.
Since you mentioned P-12... I've been squirming between that, the Cometa Orion 'pup, and the Kral Puncher Breaker Marine Something Something Something (Kral needs to work on their names).
Do you have a standalone thread on your P-12? I'm actually more fond of single-shots than repeaters, and the P-12 looks (IMO) better than the P-10. And as a bonafide fan of SPA airguns as per the accuracy I get from my PP700, this thread on the M-10 as well as your P-12 interest me greatly.
-
It would be great if you can give us at least a mini-review of the Varmint too. I like smaller lighter guns. There are already too many heavy PCPs out there for my tastes.
-
It would be great if you can give us at least a mini-review of the Varmint too. I like smaller lighter guns. There are already too many heavy PCPs out there for my tastes.
Recently there were a couple good reviews of the Varmint in this gate- I think December or maybe November time frame?
There's some really good YouTube video reviews as well. One's by a South African fellow; has his daughter doing the shooting and his methodology in the review is what really put SPA PCPs on my radar as viable options. I ended up with my pistol thanks to that review and few similar ones.
-
big, long, heavy...
Do you have a scale you can put the M-10 on and tell us the actual weight?
-
Will be taking it apart shortly, and the sensitive scale could get the weight of the parts separately....but a quick trip on the bathroom scale has it running at about 9 pounds (likely an ounce or two more) include the scope shown.
-
Day 3 :
A trip into the trigger.
Supplied an extra trigger part with an adjusting allen screw. Issue trigger has NO screw adjustments.
1. Two screws how the stock to the metal, the trigger guard will pass up though the stock.
2. Guard held on by two screws. It has no moving parts, is just a shield for the trigger.
3. Things go a lot smoother if at this point you take the end cap OFF the rifle to release the striker spring and place the striker all the way back to the rear. Basically get the striker out of the way.
4. Trigger system itself is held on by two screws.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/M10/2365245b-3274-468c-b45d-2416541e3363.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/M10/2365245b-3274-468c-b45d-2416541e3363.jpg.html)
5. Poking down from the trigger (this is an upside down view..rifle at bottom, trigger at top) are two pins and 3 little springs. The two little ones want to fall out and get lost. Pluck the two little ones out right away and keep them safe (the large one at the rear tends to want to stay in it's recess and not fall out).
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/M10/c318868e-d695-4be3-bea2-c8f03f6c46c8.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/M10/c318868e-d695-4be3-bea2-c8f03f6c46c8.jpg.html)
6. Worth noting at this time that the bigger spring powers the trigger, so it has something to do with trigger weight. I didn't change it (at least not yet). Also note there is a little round "port" that lets you see the sear engagement.
7. Are three pins that run though the trigger housing. Each is a pivot point for these 3 internal parts:
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/M10/837df0c8-0508-456b-9aa0-99930a4217e8.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/M10/837df0c8-0508-456b-9aa0-99930a4217e8.jpg.html)
8. This is the part you want to swap. The "bonus" part being the one with the set screw.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/M10/0d83140f-b735-44de-87b9-682020895af2.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/M10/0d83140f-b735-44de-87b9-682020895af2.jpg.html)
9. I would say "assemble in reverse order", but getting all 3 of those springs to line up right isn't as easy as it sounds at first. PLEASE, go back to # 3 if you skipped that.
10. Assembled, but with the guard itself off, will see this little allen. Adjusting that adjusts the sear engagment.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/M10/5c50c5d7-dfdb-46ef-b167-a7a3a0138cf8.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/M10/5c50c5d7-dfdb-46ef-b167-a7a3a0138cf8.jpg.html)
11. WARNING: New gun, new part. It's going to wear in. Wearing in always makes the trigger lighter. IF you adjust to a lite release now, will be constantly back in readjusting the trigger. SETTLE on a harder than wanted pull and shoot it a few 100 times.
12. From here on in, to adjust the trigger will need to destock the rifle and remove the trigger guard. That will expose that little set screw for sear adjustment.
-
Hi Peter, don't want to hijack this thread with the P12, but a quick search in the PCP forum will turn up several P12 threads. This is one of my latest:
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=117517.msg1133829#msg1133829 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=117517.msg1133829#msg1133829)
There are many great guns out there, but for the price/performance I rate my P12 at the top of my collection. MrodAir recently lowered the price to very close to the Kral and just based on what I have read about the Krals so far, the P12 is superior out of the box. (single shot, as you know)
-
Day 3.5:
First accuracy tests held at short range. No reason to waste time/effort at long range with pellets that can't group well at short range.
So I normally weed out the "losers" at 20 yards, move the "winners" to double the distance (40 yards). Then weed out the 40 yard "losers" and move on to 60 yards as time/ranges permit.
6 test pellets, two 5-shot groups each. Knowing from pthe past test where the "sweet spot" was, stayed within that sweet spot for each test.
Test pellets:
<a href="http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/micro%20pellets/4ec76f55-062d-49f0-a307-ea75d0b1cf19.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/micro%20pellets/4ec76f55-062d-49f0-a307-ea75d0b1cf19.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 4ec76f55-062d-49f0-a307-ea75d0b1cf19.jpg"/>[/url]
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/micro%20pellets/4ec76f55-062d-49f0-a307-ea75d0b1cf19.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/micro%20pellets/4ec76f55-062d-49f0-a307-ea75d0b1cf19.jpg.html)
Test (20 yard) target:
Rifle has not be resighted from the trigger parts swap above, so it's been out of the stock and partly disassembled...and off to the left. But, it's always off to the left rather than here-n-there, which is a good sign.
<a href="http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/M10/440db305-7ac8-492d-a005-46e8681362a7.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/M10/440db305-7ac8-492d-a005-46e8681362a7.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 440db305-7ac8-492d-a005-46e8681362a7.jpg"/>[/url]
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/M10/440db305-7ac8-492d-a005-46e8681362a7.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/M10/440db305-7ac8-492d-a005-46e8681362a7.jpg.html)
At this point, trigger unadjusted, crown a little suspect, only 65-70 shots put down the barrel...I'm optimistic.
Certainly DID NOT shoot the pellets I expected it to shoot well. I'd not have bet on EunJins or a hollow point (and a hollow point that looks like a Phillips head screw) to "win" the short range tests.
Chronogrphed the two "winners".
The light 19.1gr. managed to average 1019fps/44 foot pounds. That's probably a clue to why the lighter weight pellets (even though many think of 16 and 18gr. .22 pellets as heavy weights).
The heavy EunJin 28.5gr. pellets averaged 894fps / 50.6 foot pounds.
-
Your results surprise me as well. Seeing the Eun Jins shoot well makes me happy though. They are absolute hammers on small game, even in the "little" 16 grain .177. However, everything I own shoots H&N Sniper Magnums far more accurately, and in .177, there's only 1 grain difference...
My own experience with the Barracuda Magnums: if something shoots them well, it shoots JSB Ultrashocks well. This goes for my PP700W, the QB-79, and (despite being far underpowered) my 760 pumper.
-
If this one isn't a freak, then it's a +50 foot pound .22, with what may turn out to be (once broken in) good accuracy, and a decent trigger (using the spare part supplied) for $270.
On the "down side":
1. if you are a pump filler, will really need the power to put up with at least 4 pump strokes in for each shot out.
2. will need to put in the supplied trigger part, which will take about 30 min (or 45 in my case, as I spent 15min hunting up one of the little springs that got lost).
3. Have to like single shots (yeah...there have been repeater conversions...but unless you have a machine shop to do it yourself, if you "gotta have" a repeater, the $ spend in a conversion would be better put to a rifle that is already a repeater).
Will swap the transfer port for the reduced one supplied and retest. NOT because I'm unhappy with it the way it is, but because I want to find out.
-
I'm looking forward to your reviews at longer distances and for you to get a good feel for the trigger.
As far as having to pump a lot per shot. I assume that would apply to any rifle that puts out 50 FPE in either .22 or .25?
-
I'm looking forward to your reviews at longer distances and for you to get a good feel for the trigger.
As far as having to pump a lot per shot. I assume that would apply to any rifle that puts out 50 FPE in either .22 or .25?
my 25 cal mrod gen 1 was about 10 strokes of a benji pump per shot refilling from 2100.. so this is nothing