GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => AirForce Airguns => Topic started by: Razor62 on February 08, 2017, 11:44:54 AM
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So I'm trying to get the energy output on my .357 Talon up from what I'd consider to be less than stellar performance. Currently it's sporting an Eldy's big bore kit but I don't know much about it. I know that it's running a condor valve and custom top hat and the barrel is standard length for the Talon (whatever that is.) The barrel ends 1/4'" behind the muzzle opening in the front of the barrel shroud. As it is right now the best she'll do is 69 FPE with 81 gr JSBs moving along at 620 FPS. I want to get her up to 750 FPS or more with a goal of a minimum of 100 FPE. Shot count is not important beyond 10 shots or so.
I found these items on ebay and was hoping that a few of the more knowledgable Airforce gurus will chime in with their opinions / advice.
100 gram Hammer and heavy spring
Big Bore Talon Condor valve with 6mm ID
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The heavier hammer might help you out a bit, but I would be really leery of the valve. I have read many instances where folks have gotten ebay valves or Chinese valves and have had nothing but issues out of them.
I still think your barrel is going to be your limiting factor here.
which custom top hat do you have? Do you have a one piece or do you have the one with the inserts? If the latter, I'm assuming you've taken out the restrictive inserts?
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I'm going to start tearing into her tonight after work. I'll take some photos and measurements and post 'em up here. I really appreciate any and all advice. Thanks Rob
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Pics would be great. I've got several AF guns that I've modified so I should be able to help out a bit. Happy to do so.
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I got one of Eldy's kits almost 2 yrs ago. Here's the link to my post http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=90410.msg848252#msg848252 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=90410.msg848252#msg848252)
The hammer weight from TalonTunes and Condor valve fixed me right up. I have the 18" barrel in a Talon SS frame.
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Thanks guys. I don't have much experience with Airforce guns and as a result I'm not very well educated on what is and isn't possible with regard to power output. I did send an email out to Eldy (the guy who makes the big bore kit that's in my gun) asking about a longer barrel option/ availability. ( currently it looks like a 12" barrel. Wondering what a 18", 20" or 24" barrel would do for performance. We'll see what he's got to say on the subject too.
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NT
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I've got the day off and it's blizzard conditions outside so with nothing better to do I tore into the Talon. Got some photos and measurements in hopes of narrowing down my options for increasing the power output of this gun. I had a brief text exchange with Mr. Eldy yesterday and he seemed to be leaning toward the longer barrel route as well however I wasn't armed with the measurements that I took this morning at the time so he had little to go on. Today we've got some details about the gun. And while I was at it I removed the very annoying safety system. ;D
When I acquired the gun the original owner told me that it had a Condor valve installed. I received the original valve along with the 12" .22 cal barrel etc. as well but I don't know for certain how to discern the difference between a Talon valve and a Condor valve. I'm thinking that the top hat could go bigger ID and there's heavier hammers available as well but I'm not certain that a 17.5" barrel would make use of all of the air. What say the experts???
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How big is the hole in the valve?
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Top hat ID is 5mm on either valve.
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Looks like you have about the same kit as I do. Check the gap between the top hat and tank. Mine is .09, might not be letting the valve open enough
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Hmmm...My gap measures .10" but there's a couple of o-rings stacked behind the top hat. Must be to restrict air flow. Getting rid of those may yield better performance. No?
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Just removed the o-rings and fired a shot out the back door. :-) She's allot louder and the pellet gets where it's goin' in a hurry! Gonna' dig out the chronograph and report back.
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Ok, Well, Let me first remind everyone that I did say that I didn't know much about the Airforce platform. At least now I can say that I've learned a substantial amount about the subject in a rather short amount of time. ;)
Removing those two o-rings brought my average muzzle velocity from 620 fps to 755 fps shooting the same 81 grain JSBs. Muzzle energy went from 69 fpe to 102 fpe. Exactly where I said I'd settle if I didn't achieve better. Now, on the other hand I'm thinking that if 100 ft lbs was this simple then what's conceivably possible within reasonable accuracy and shot count expectations. Would a heavy hammer or larger top hat give any benefit at this point. I obviously haven't spent any time with the gun as is to learn shot count and power curve without those o-rings and yet I'm off trying to get more speed. Just kicking around possibilities and I know the JSB pellets like to buzz along at 800 fps or so. Sure would be nice......
I wanna' thank the fine folks who chimed in. Much appreciated. You made my snowed in day a productive one.
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Some tuning and I'm sure you can get more than 100fpe out of it. And if you desire even more power contact dyotat101, Doug for one of his valves.
I have had 103fpe with 10" barrel on my pistol so I know you can get more than that with 17.5"
Just do more testing with the tophat and spring adjuster, and have fun.
Marko
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Thanks Marko. I did a search for Doug but it didn't turn anything up. Do you have contact info by any chance?
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Dayotat100 is Doug, he responded above already. Nobody knows more than Doug about airforce guns and his valve will get you the most out of what you have plus he can make you the hammer.
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Ahhh!!! Thank you Neal...I guess that I should've noticed that. LOL!
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And i fumbled typing dyotat100 should sleep more...
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YeeHaw! I thought I saw some Orings in your early pictures, but I wasn't sure enough to ask.
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Yessir! Removing those made a world of difference. Then, with the help of a very knowledgeable forum member I was able to squeeze out even more. A very simple valve stem modification along with an even wider top hat gap got me in the realm of the 800 fps mark. I'm hoping that she'll become a little more consistent with some use. I'd like to see the FPS spread close up by at least half over 10 shots or so. I really haven't worked with it enough to know what the ideal pressure range is so I think that it's doable. Here's a very informal chrony string. My lighting was poor which resulted in numerous errors which I deleted. I need to sit down with here on a nice day with a full dive tank and figure her out. For now I'll just be happy with the very encouraging numbers.