GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: darren on January 11, 2017, 10:08:18 PM
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I have wanted a bullpup for a while, but the cash was not available....
Enter the puncher breaker.....
Not available in the USA yet....so talked to the guys overseas.... It is available in the UK.. In 12 ft lb....pass
South Africa... Full power...won't ship. Krale comes through.
I got the .22 walnut version.
Opening the box shows 2 mags (12 shot )
Fill probe (will need a Forster adapter)
All in molded foam
I filled the gun to 200 bar and let it sit..... No leaks.
Looking around for weaver mounts, I found some for a counterpoint 4*16
Basic sight in....
6 shots clover leafing
Not many more shots as it is and has been raining buckets for days.
Shoot in jsb 15.9@ 910
Nice gun especially at 1/2 the price of the mutant.
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IIRC that's a side cocking lever instead of a bolt action isn't it? I was looking at them also, but wound up with a P 12, before I knew about Krale-Schietsport and Aceros de Hispania. Let us know more about it when you get a chance to shoot it more.
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Missing the K there buddy ..... KRAL
Nice looking rig right there !
Looking at NET pictures of other Kral Puncher rifles, appears like most have barrel laying very close to the air tube yet in your picture there's gap. Where there's gap a SHROUD can be fitted along with LDC pieces too. Back yard friendlier is not too far a stretch :-X
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Is the scope rail metal or plastic?
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"dang" auto correct
Metal rail on mine....They changed the mag's as well.... More like a Maruader style
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Nice gun! I had considered one of these before when I was looking for a bullpup.
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Nice gun! I had considered one of these before when I was looking for a bullpup.
Same basic design as Evanix sidelevers, not bad for the money.
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How does the trigger feel to you?
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How does the trigger feel to you?
Out of the box...Not bad at all... Will be working on it though
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If you shoot lefty, like me, is the lever against your face? Says it's ambi but looks much more conducive to a righty.
Thanks,
Higgs
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I just looked through their website and liked what I saw. Those are some good looking rifles to me. Where does one buy them from?
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I just looked through their website and liked what I saw. Those are some good looking rifles to me. Where does one buy them from?
Darren ordered his from Krale over in the Netherlands shipping it across the big pond. Great price too !!
Word is Pyramid Air will be taking on the KRAL line.
Instinct tells me the Price will be likely @ 20% higher and the exporting of them from overseas will get shut down.
* Want one at the best price ... do so ASAP from Krale ...
See: http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrTcdq9aXpYaXEAOXcPxQt.;_ylu=X3oDMTByNDZ0aWFxBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwM2BHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--/RV=2/RE=1484446270/RO=10/RU=https%3a%2f%2fwww.krale-schietsport.nl%2fen%2fguns%2fair-rifles.html/RK=0/RS=tdqmVn4.48nNXebCyYxFRvfBUdQ- (http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrTcdq9aXpYaXEAOXcPxQt.;_ylu=X3oDMTByNDZ0aWFxBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwM2BHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--/RV=2/RE=1484446270/RO=10/RU=https%3a%2f%2fwww.krale-schietsport.nl%2fen%2fguns%2fair-rifles.html/RK=0/RS=tdqmVn4.48nNXebCyYxFRvfBUdQ-)
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I just looked through their website and liked what I saw. Those are some good looking rifles to me. Where does one buy them from?
Darren ordered his from Krale over in the Netherlands shipping it across the big pond. Great price too !!
Word is Pyramid Air will be taking on the KRAL line.
Instinct tells me the Price will be likely @ 20% higher and the exporting of them from overseas will get shut down.
* Want one at the best price ... do so ASAP from Krale ...
Awesome thank you! I have a feeling I'm going to put in an order for one when I get back home tomorrow!
See: http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrTcdq9aXpYaXEAOXcPxQt.;_ylu=X3oDMTByNDZ0aWFxBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwM2BHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--/RV=2/RE=1484446270/RO=10/RU=https%3a%2f%2fwww.krale-schietsport.nl%2fen%2fguns%2fair-rifles.html/RK=0/RS=tdqmVn4.48nNXebCyYxFRvfBUdQ- (http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrTcdq9aXpYaXEAOXcPxQt.;_ylu=X3oDMTByNDZ0aWFxBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwM2BHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--/RV=2/RE=1484446270/RO=10/RU=https%3a%2f%2fwww.krale-schietsport.nl%2fen%2fguns%2fair-rifles.html/RK=0/RS=tdqmVn4.48nNXebCyYxFRvfBUdQ-)
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good to see it has a metal scope rail. If I remember correctly one of the reviews I read (in a UK forum I think) mentioned that the rail was polymer and that kind of put me off from buying one.
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good to see it has a metal scope rail. If I remember correctly one of the reviews I read (in a UK forum I think) mentioned that the rail was polymer and that kind of put me off from buying one.
Not tring to take over Darrens post ... just semi upto speed on some changes KRAL has made.
If you look at various WEB pictures of the early guns you will notice that the barrel is resting right on the air tube with nary a gap between them.
Scope towers look like plastic extrusions with Rail setting quite a bit higher than barrel.
Look at DARRENS ACTUAL GUN ... you will take note the receiver is different having barrel now much higher having a gap between it and air tube.
Scope towers and rail to barrel positioning is now different. Towers are now Metal per Darren ;)
* Do wish he would get more pictures up, tho i know he works a LOT of hours here of late :P
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Anyone know where Kral gets their barrels? Or made in house?
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Anyone know where Kral gets their barrels? Or made in house?
Coming out of Turkey .... Likely wherever Hatsan does, tho just speculation ???
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How loud is it? Do you own another PCP to compare it to?
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good to see it has a metal scope rail. If I remember correctly one of the reviews I read (in a UK forum I think) mentioned that the rail was polymer and that kind of put me off from buying one.
Not tring to take over Darrens post ... just semi upto speed on some changes KRAL has made.
If you look at various WEB pictures of the early guns you will notice that the barrel is resting right on the air tube with nary a gap between them.
Scope towers look like plastic extrusions with Rail setting quite a bit higher than barrel.
Look at DARRENS ACTUAL GUN ... you will take note the receiver is different having barrel now much higher having a gap between it and air tube.
Scope towers and rail to barrel positioning is now different. Towers are now Metal per Darren ;)
* Do wish he would get more pictures up, tho i know he works a LOT of hours here of late :P
You're right, they def. made some changes for the better it seems. Look's like one heck of a pup for less than $500!
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good to see it has a metal scope rail. If I remember correctly one of the reviews I read (in a UK forum I think) mentioned that the rail was polymer and that kind of put me off from buying one.
Not tring to take over Darrens post ... just semi upto speed on some changes KRAL has made.
If you look at various WEB pictures of the early guns you will notice that the barrel is resting right on the air tube with nary a gap between them.
Scope towers look like plastic extrusions with Rail setting quite a bit higher than barrel.
Look at DARRENS ACTUAL GUN ... you will take note the receiver is different having barrel now much higher having a gap between it and air tube.
Scope towers and rail to barrel positioning is now different. Towers are now Metal per Darren ;)
* Do wish he would get more pictures up, tho i know he works a LOT of hours here of late :P
Scott feel free to jump in on any of my posts...
How loud is it? Do you own another PCP to compare it to?
Rico I have shot many PCP guns....Is it the loudest....Nope
But she has a pretty good bark at 32fpe
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Well the cat is out of the bag. Yes those guns look good and the prices are good. They do load from the left do they not?
Happy you got one. After we talked about this gun I showed it to a freind. Not sure what he did.
The carbine looked good as well and was much cheapet. As I read after our talk I saw several different possible makers and barrel supplies throw on the mystery of the gun.
As long as it is mechanicaly good a rebarrel is nothing.
Can't wait to see some more reviews of the gun.
Enjoy!!💀 I am doing the 10 meter adventure right now. Lol You never know what I will dive off into next. But I do not waste much time once I set my mind to it.
Sounds like another gun for MH to explore.
CONGRATES BRO!!💀
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That's awesome Darren! Nice rig. What mods have you started on?
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How is the accuracy on this? I emailed pyramyd air and they said they expect preorder in the next week or two and delivery within a couple weeks after. I think I will hold out to see their prices first before I order overseas. Call me old fashioned but if I can keep my money here in the states I'll sure try to. I do like the looks of these things!
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Update on the tweaking ...
Darren & I just tore his Punisher Breaker Pup down to it's bare bones today.
Did an inventory of design attributes, weakness's and places to modify for both Unregulated & regulated uses.
So ... being for now Darren choose OEM unregulated we did a bunch of mods and gave the gun a through going over.
All done ... JSB 18.1's easily making 930 FPS !! ( 35 ft lbs +/- )
Interesting day being inside this KRAL action and now know first hand what we have to work with and such required information to tune on them if requested too.
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Update on the tweaking ...
Darren & I just tore his Punisher Breaker Pup down to it's bare bones today.
Did an inventory of design attributes, weakness's and places to modify for both Unregulated & regulated uses.
So ... being for now Darren choose OEM unregulated we did a bunch of mods and gave the gun a through going over.
All done ... JSB 18.1's easily making 930 FPS !! ( 35 ft lbs +/- )
Interesting day being inside this KRAL action and now know first hand what we have to work with and such required information to tune on them if requested too.
Let me guess: trigger sear shape and lighter trigger springs, port sizes in general and hammer spring to hammer weight tuning?
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Lets just say the engineers of the gun are bit removed from the actual manufacturing process .... LOL engineers !!!
being guns pretty much a loose splash of MANY manufacturers the blending of a final product while mechanically sound enough needs some fine tuning done.
The primary issue noted was Transfer path .. valve to barrel is a MAJOR up/down spec of sizing differences.
There use of an air arms ball valve type velocity adjuster being the tight spot for modifing the breathing specs, tho as the mono block receiver is manufactured it too somewhat strangles the flow tho modifiable when correct changes applied.
For those who have been around Evanix rainstorms much in basic design is familure there. Really did not note any absolute SPLASHES in designs, tho much is similar across a few other manufacturers past designs.
For the coin ... yea pretty darn solid !! Tho there NO Kricket Or Mutant and at less than 1/2 the cost ... No Duh !!
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Glad you 2 got togather and got to the total stripping down on what all the design specs are.
I knew after seeing much reading on the gun as it came out. Darren buying one some good would come forth. Glad you 2 paired up on a tear down.
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Oh yes, I forgot the velocity adjuster bar. Probably too small in diameter for .25 porting and thus restricts the power in that caliber. Can you drill the block for larger diameter bar or do you have to remove it and block the sides of the breech?
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Oh yes, I forgot the velocity adjuster bar. Probably too small in diameter for .25 porting and thus restricts the power in that caliber. Can you drill the block for larger diameter bar or do you have to remove it and block the sides of the breech?
If I were to go about a full on power mod would drill / ream out the adjuster bore larger, make a new cross pin & then line drill/ bore threw it while installed & get the larger spec and correct alignment issues present in one operation.
We were able to get @ .165" transfer sizing established with what we had ;) ... And that took a bit of work on every part of the action where transfer passages were.
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Just curious.. I thought the transfer ports were 4mm from the factory?
Reply #41. http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=89583.40 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=89583.40)
Anything stopping from going larger?
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Just curious.. I thought the transfer ports were 4mm from the factory?
Reply #41. http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=89583.40 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=89583.40)
Anything stopping from going larger?
Some parts are, others not ... thus the up/down sizing spec comment.
Upper receiver above the adjuster to barrel @ .190"
Velocity Adjuster @ .120"
Lower receiver adjuster to valve @ .150"s ( Don't remember exact at that spot )
Valve & barrel @ .120"
Yup YOYO sizing :P
We were able take the .120" specs areas to @ .165" using all the stock parts.
** We could have gone larger EXCEPT at the adjuster which is pretty thin now and the transfer systems tight spot !!
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So got it sighted in....And began to settle her down.
Well my backstop for sighting in is a 14 inch cast iron skillet...
Well evidently 35 fpe will shatter a skillet....
I completely stripped the factory stock and oil finished it
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K
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Not bad at all on the eyes. So much for cast iron targets.lol👀
MH will get you lined out.💀
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Update on the tweaking ...
Darren & I just tore his Punisher Breaker Pup down to it's bare bones today.
Did an inventory of design attributes, weakness's and places to modify for both Unregulated & regulated uses.
So ... being for now Darren choose OEM unregulated we did a bunch of mods and gave the gun a through going over.
All done ... JSB 18.1's easily making 930 FPS !! ( 35 ft lbs +/- )
Interesting day being inside this KRAL action and now know first hand what we have to work with and such required information to tune on them if requested too.
Thinking of picking one of these up, about how many shot can You get out of this .22 @ around 23 - 28ish fpe regulated, since I see Huma has one up on there site. I have need of a .22 and I'm feeling the Bullpup fit a lot.
Nice gun Darren.
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Update on the tweaking ...
Darren & I just tore his Punisher Breaker Pup down to it's bare bones today.
Did an inventory of design attributes, weakness's and places to modify for both Unregulated & regulated uses.
So ... being for now Darren choose OEM unregulated we did a bunch of mods and gave the gun a through going over.
All done ... JSB 18.1's easily making 930 FPS !! ( 35 ft lbs +/- )
Interesting day being inside this KRAL action and now know first hand what we have to work with and such required information to tune on them if requested too.
Thinking of picking one of these up, about how many shot can You get out of this .22 @ around 23 - 28ish fpe regulated, since I see Huma has one up on there site. I have need of a .22 and I'm feeling the Bullpup fit a lot.
Nice gun Darren.
The Huma reg for the Kral Puncher doesn't look like it has much plenum. I'd be surprised if you could even hit 28 fpe with it.
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Update on the tweaking ...
Darren & I just tore his Punisher Breaker Pup down to it's bare bones today.
Did an inventory of design attributes, weakness's and places to modify for both Unregulated & regulated uses.
So ... being for now Darren choose OEM unregulated we did a bunch of mods and gave the gun a through going over.
All done ... JSB 18.1's easily making 930 FPS !! ( 35 ft lbs +/- )
Interesting day being inside this KRAL action and now know first hand what we have to work with and such required information to tune on them if requested too.
Thinking of picking one of these up, about how many shot can You get out of this .22 @ around 23 - 28ish fpe regulated, since I see Huma has one up on there site. I have need of a .22 and I'm feeling the Bullpup fit a lot.
Nice gun Darren.
Only a WAG based upon previous "Rainstorm" regulator tuning. With such a large throat valve and poppet just shy of 1/2" diameter ( .490" )
gun is still going to require a fairly healthy hammer strike to open it. The rainstorm had similar air volume so that taken into consideration would be surprised at 30 ft lbs it does any better than 50 shots or so. I was never able to get the RS to run very efficiently, tho it was rock solid while under regulation. Tho NEVER doing a Regulated KRAL as of yet ... just a WAG.
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Only a WAG based upon previous "Rainstorm" regulator tuning. With such a large throat valve and poppet just shy of 1/2" diameter ( .490" )
gun is still going to require a fairly healthy hammer strike to open it. The rainstorm had similar air volume so that taken into consideration would be surprised at 30 ft lbs it does any better than 50 shots or so. I was never able to get the RS to run very efficiently, tho it was rock solid while under regulation. Tho NEVER doing a Regulated KRAL as of yet ... just a WAG.
.357 Evanixes use only 10.9mm poppets, that's about 0.429". It looks like Kral could easily go to .45 caliber if they sorted out those other things in the air path.
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Update on the tweaking ...
Darren & I just tore his Punisher Breaker Pup down to it's bare bones today.
Did an inventory of design attributes, weakness's and places to modify for both Unregulated & regulated uses.
So ... being for now Darren choose OEM unregulated we did a bunch of mods and gave the gun a through going over.
All done ... JSB 18.1's easily making 930 FPS !! ( 35 ft lbs +/- )
Interesting day being inside this KRAL action and now know first hand what we have to work with and such required information to tune on them if requested too.
Thinking of picking one of these up, about how many shot can You get out of this .22 @ around 23 - 28ish fpe regulated, since I see Huma has one up on there site. I have need of a .22 and I'm feeling the Bullpup fit a lot.
Nice gun Darren.
The Huma reg for the Kral Puncher doesn't look like it has much plenum. I'd be surprised if you could even hit 28 fpe with it.
Was just over at HuMa.Com looking at the specs on the Puncher Reg ... states WILL NOT FIT 32mm I.D. Tubes which IIRC is exactly what these NEW Puncher "Breakers" are fitted with ... meaning the Regs likely were / are for the original early version actions ???
Also looking at its shape ... it really does not match to what I just had hands on just 24 hours or so ago which leaves me further convinced Darrens NEW gun is different
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How does this predict for the .25, any ideas?
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How does this predict for the .25, any ideas?
Given the SAME internal specs as what we just encountered in the .22 ??? .... WEAK
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Thanks Scott. Not what I wanted to hear, but needed to hear :'( I had ordered a Puncher Pro .25 with hopes, but seems all the listed specs are right on and its potentially more work and/or not feasible.
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Thanks Scott. Not what I wanted to hear, but needed to hear :'( I had ordered a Puncher Pro .25 with hopes, but seems all the listed specs are right on and its potentially more work and/or not feasible.
Being few have a .25 yet and therefor no definitive internal knowings ??? we're WAGing here.
That said ... opened up to .165 specs, it has the potential to make 40-45 ft lbs pretty easy and perhaps a bit more.
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Even though the .25 shots like a .22 in terms of power, it groups real good, friend of mine has one and he was getting groups at 45 yards covered by a dime easy.
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So it isn't going be a high-powered medium-game crusher- I can live with that for the cost. As long as accuracy is there and it responds well to tuning, we (the shooting public) still come out ahead at this price range.
I'm willing to bet Crosman is going to respond to the Kral in kind. It stands firmly on their territory.
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So it isn't going be a high-powered medium-game crusher- I can live with that for the cost. As long as accuracy is there and it responds well to tuning, we (the shooting public) still come out ahead at this price range.
I'm willing to bet Crosman is going to respond to the Kral in kind. It stands firmly on their territory.
Given the poppet size it has potential for 200 fpe. I would assume that if the power adjuster thingie was ditched or made larger in diameter it would be relatively easy to fix the airpath to 5.0mm size which is enough to get .25 in the 80fpe region or even above that. That Evanix design is rather sturdy and relatively easy to fix for power.
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So the only thing I see here that has me interested is that supposedly there are differences between the "silent" ones which Air Venturi is distributing and the standard ones which have been available overseas for a while.
I have no idea what these differences really are, but I'll be interested to see if they make a difference in performance or reliability to the end user or not.
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Update on the tweaking ...
Darren & I just tore his Punisher Breaker Pup down to it's bare bones today.
Did an inventory of design attributes, weakness's and places to modify for both Unregulated & regulated uses.
Scott - what is your opinion of the trigger assembly/linkage? Do the parts seem up to the task (are they on the beefier end like the Mutant or are they on the tiny end closer to FX guns)?
Also, does anyone have a link to an exploded parts diagram?
Thanks!