GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: hank hill on January 08, 2017, 06:06:32 PM
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I had this idea a while ago and posted something on youtube but wanted to ask some real airgunners. I think a .30 cal bulldog would be a winner it solves most of the downsides of the rifle. Obviously it would be quieter with better shot count just from being lower cal. also higher count mags.. But the real reason i think it would be a hit maybe even more so then the 357 is that the .30 your getting around the power of a .22lr. Basically you can take any game you would with a 22lr, which i think is the most popular cartage in the world.
In my opinion big bore airguns for hunting big game is a vary niche group to target. But the .30 will hit small game hunters, predator hunters, varmint hunters and if its accurate enough target shooters. which leads me to my next point ammo.
I think there is only one manufacture of .30 cal pellets jsb, which may seem like it's a downside but crosman could use this to there advantage. If crosman came out with a .30 cal pellet there only real competition would be JSB. Although i think the .30 is going to take off, i can't wait for H&N to come out with some .30 cals.. Even with only one real manufacturer the .30 is still gonna be cheaper to shoot then the 357. If they made a .30 pellet and could sell them around the price of jsbs they will sell.
It may seem like a small difference but just going to .30 cal makes this a whole different gun thats more practical, more economical, and with a broader range of applications. And it seems like it would take minimal engineering to change cals. while being able to return more profits from the bulldogs R&D.
Make some noise if you think im on to something, hopefully theres enough noise for them to hear
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The .30 is, IMO, the "crossover" caliber between small and big game.... If you are talking pellets only, then it is firmly in the small game to predator (Coyote) category.... much like a .257 shooting bullets.... It can be extremely accurate, and in fact .30 cals shooting the 45 gr. JSBs win most of the 100 yd. Benchrest comps.... A powerful .30 cal (like a DAQ) can be used on Big Game, but I rather doubt a .30 cal Bulldog would be in that league.... A .35 cal pellet shooter isn't either, it is primarily a predator gun, IMO.... You really need to step up to a .357 bullet shooter, at over 200 FPE, to have a really reliable big game rifle.... JMO....
Bob
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I completely agree on the pellet and I've written to Crosman that if they made a 45gr .30 cal pellet like the .25 it would be a hit, also I'm waiting for H&N to jump on the bandwagon.
On the other hand I think BullPups ( even if they look cool and are the rage) have more downsides than rifles.
Yes Crosman should enter the .30 market with both pellets and guns,
but I would use the BullDog basic platform and turn it into a Mini-Carbine like the one Cricket has and even a simple tactical carbine with a foldable stock for transport.
.....and yes, I would use the BullDog platform rather than the Marauder, hate the magazines and that crappy bolt action, magazines and side lever on the Bulldog are pretty nice, also the air reservoir on the Dog is bigger than the Marauder's,.....and last but not least, the Dog has the capability to be easily made more powerful if one wants to shoot bullets as well as pellets,....I just hate that stupid, cheap plastic stock ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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The .30 is, IMO, the "crossover" caliber between small and big game.... If you are talking pellets only, then it is firmly in the small game to predator (Coyote) category.... much like a .257 shooting bullets.... It can be extremely accurate, and in fact .30 cals shooting the 45 gr. JSBs win most of the 100 yd. Benchrest comps.... A powerful .30 cal (like a DAQ) can be used on Big Game, but I rather doubt a .30 cal Bulldog would be in that league.... A .35 cal pellet shooter isn't either, it is primarily a predator gun, IMO.... You really need to step up to a .357 bullet shooter, at over 200 FPE, to have a really reliable big game rifle.... JMO....
Bob
This is the whole idea your taking a gun that only appeals to a niche group and simply by lowering the cal now you have a gun that appeals to a larger market. i also think a gun like that would actually pull lots of hunters that aren't airgunners into the market like the bulldog did with big game hunters. Not just appealing to a larger market but actually growing the market. i'm trying to say the .30 cal is to airgunning what the .22lr is to powder burners (as far as a hunter is concerned). I never intended to imply that the .30 would be suitable for big game
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Crosman HAS completely neglected the .30 cal, jumping from .25 up to .357.... I would be nice to see them correct that, I agree....
Bo
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I built a .30 based on innards of a bulldog and sent pics to Crosman employee. Not sure what if anything they did with it. I guess not a priority or they are working on something new.
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Problem with Crosman is that they have their head so far up their own @@@ that they completely ignore suggestions from people that actually know a lot about PCP guns and markets,
so they just keep coming up short time and time again.
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Doesnt hurt my feelings LOl. Im listening and evolving and I dont have to take orders from bean counters. Only bad part is Ill never be able to reach their volume and get to their price base. At least not yet HeHe
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A couple of months ago, I posted a thread about "getting Crosman listen to us airgunners."
Right before Chip Hunnicutt left crosman we had a talk on the phone about many things, among them, the Bulldog and making it a .30 caliber.
The reason Crosman went with the .357 caliber is it is the minimum that most states are drawing the line for hunting with airguns to be used for deer sized game.
They have been and still are working with legislators in every state trying to get airguns legalized for hunting.
The guns have to make millions of dollars in sales to be a viable product.
Here is a link.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=116423.msg1119731#msg1119731 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=116423.msg1119731#msg1119731)
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Letting Chip go was a mistake now they have no connection to the rest of us. I hope hes doing well.
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They didn't let him go, he actively sought the position he is in now.
But yes, we need someone there who listens to us.
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I think perhaps Crosman is trying to differentiate airguns for small game from those for big game.... If that is indeed their strategy, then the omission of .30 cal from the lineup makes sense, as it gets rid of the grey area.... IMO....
Bob
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I can see why they didn't make the bulldog .30 to begin with but i don't get why they wouldn't just have both cals. and just advertise that "the .357 is for big game and the .30 is for just about everything else."
If they made a .30 bulldog it would sell. they should get into the .30 cal even if its not with the bulldog. just seems like there would be a lot less money to make back if you use the bulldog platform.
i would have found some money for a .30 bulldog, but in 357 i have NO use for it. There is zero advantage to hunting big game with an air rifle (except hunting access) big game airgun hunters do it because they like hunting and they like airguns. Whereas with small game hunting airguns are actually better suited then firearms. small game hunting you can usually take multiple game in an outing so being quiet is way more important then big game where you only get one or two for the whole season. not to mention big game airguns are so supped up that even the ones that are shrouded are still too loud.
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I think the Airbow was Crosmans fix to the Bulldog!