GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: mobilemail on January 05, 2017, 09:01:48 AM
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I recently read a BB Pelletier (aka Tom Gaylord) on the Pyramyd Air blog, https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2017/01/generation-2-25-caliber-benjamin-marauder-part-11/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2017/01/generation-2-25-caliber-benjamin-marauder-part-11/) and was surprised to learn that he was quite happy with 24 shots at 38fpe. I say "surprised" because I had a preconception that devices like the NBH, SSG , etc. and their resulting efficiencies were pretty well known by now. Apparently I spend too much time reading the forums! :-)
I posted something in the comments of that blog about the SSG increasing efficiency, and I was told that I am the first person on that blog with one.
Self-check here, I gotta ask: Do You have a Benjamin Marauder with an SSG installed? - any generation, any caliber, whether you made the SSG or bought it.
And for extra points that won't buy you anything - what efficiency gain did it provide, if any?
Thanks!
note - in respect to that blog's sponser, I didn't mention that Joe Brancato sells rifles with an SSG (or the similar FFH) pre-installed because of the efficiency gain.)
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Yes...in every one that passes through my shop. All of my personal MRod and Discos will be equipped with them too as soon as they get bench time.
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I have one in my .25 marauder. It came installed in it from previous owner so I'm not sure on the efficiency gain. However it shoots a flat string at around 45 fpe for at least two full mags. Since it's my hunting rig that's all I needed to know. I should do a full string sometime to see how long it lasts.
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Yes, the WAR SSG. It did improve both my shot count and curve.
R
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I recently read a post in this forum how to make in internal ssg but since I read that post I haven't seen it again. I should have bookmarked it because I was going to try it but as of yet my Mrod is still bone stock.
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Yes sure do have one in every Mrod Ive had except my .30 they must be behind the times
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Yes, I have an SSG in my 25 Marauder. However, due to all the other mods on the gun which were done at the same time, it is hard to say exactly how much difference it makes. It is currently a 40 shot at 40 fpe per fill. The extreme spread in velocity from the first shot to the last is 1.89 percent.
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I saw a significant increase in efficiency using the WAR-SSG in my 25cal Srod
1)Pre-SSG. No mods.
start pressure: 3100
end pressure: 1900
#shots: 24
avg fps: 853
ES: 3.6%
avg fpe/shot: 41
efficiency (fpe/cuin): 0.91
2)WAR-SSG. with hill depinger.
start pressure: 3000
end pressure 2100
#shots: 32
avg fps: 832
ES: 2.8%
avg fpe/shot: 39.1
efficiency (fpe/cuin): 1.54
Gary
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I have a Gen II Marauder in 22 caliber with a WAR SSG, and so far I am very happy with it. Travis makes great stuff. I am still tinkering with the settings.
I would like an additional 10 shots with the average of all 60 shots to be around 820.
I am almost there, But Travis has been working on a new TSS..
JSB EXACT JUMBO HEAVY
Marauder full charge-3000 psi.
WAR SSG and HuMa regulator set to 1800 psi
Distance to Chrono(FT): 3.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.033
Bullet Weight(gr): 18.13
# FPS FT-LBS PF
50 790 25.13 14.32
49 791 25.19 14.34
48 791 25.19 14.34
47 787 24.94 14.27
46 787 24.94 14.27
45 792 25.26 14.36
44 797 25.58 14.45
43 827 27.54 14.99
42 832 27.87 15.08
41 836 28.14 15.16
40 834 28.01 15.12
39 808 26.29 14.65
38 842 28.55 15.27
37 833 27.94 15.10
36 848 28.95 15.37
35 845 28.75 15.32
34 843 28.61 15.28
33 832 27.87 15.08
32 828 27.60 15.01
31 836 28.14 15.16
30 831 27.80 15.07
29 832 27.87 15.08
28 835 28.07 15.14
27 832 27.87 15.08
26 834 28.01 15.12
25 834 28.01 15.12
24 834 28.01 15.12
23 831 27.80 15.07
22 832 27.87 15.08
21 831 27.80 15.07
20 828 27.60 15.01
19 826 27.47 14.98
18 821 27.14 14.88
17 825 27.40 14.96
16 822 27.21 14.90
15 822 27.21 14.90
14 815 26.74 14.78
13 820 27.07 14.87
12 821 27.14 14.88
11 845 28.75 15.32
10 841 28.48 15.25
9 842 28.55 15.27
8 845 28.75 15.32
7 843 28.61 15.28
6 844 28.68 15.30
5 840 28.41 15.23
4 833 27.94 15.10
3 821 27.14 14.88
2 835 28.07 15.14
1 827 27.54 14.99
Average: 826.4 FPS
SD: 16.8 FPS
Min: 787 FPS
Max: 848 FPS
Spread: 61 FPS
True MV: 832
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I have a Gen II Marauder in 22 caliber with a WAR SSG, and so far I am very happy with it. Travis makes great stuff. I am still tinkering with the settings.
I would like an additional 10 shots with the average of all 60 shots to be around 820.
JSB EXACT JUMBO HEAVY
Marauder full charge-3000 psi.
WAR SSG and HuMa regulator set to 1800 psi
Distance to Chrono(FT): 3.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.033
Bullet Weight(gr): 18.13
# FPS FT-LBS PF
50 790 25.13 14.32
49 791 25.19 14.34
48 791 25.19 14.34
47 787 24.94 14.27
46 787 24.94 14.27
45 792 25.26 14.36
44 797 25.58 14.45
43 827 27.54 14.99
42 832 27.87 15.08
41 836 28.14 15.16
40 834 28.01 15.12
39 808 26.29 14.65
38 842 28.55 15.27
37 833 27.94 15.10
36 848 28.95 15.37
35 845 28.75 15.32
34 843 28.61 15.28
33 832 27.87 15.08
32 828 27.60 15.01
31 836 28.14 15.16
30 831 27.80 15.07
29 832 27.87 15.08
28 835 28.07 15.14
27 832 27.87 15.08
26 834 28.01 15.12
25 834 28.01 15.12
24 834 28.01 15.12
23 831 27.80 15.07
22 832 27.87 15.08
21 831 27.80 15.07
20 828 27.60 15.01
19 826 27.47 14.98
18 821 27.14 14.88
17 825 27.40 14.96
16 822 27.21 14.90
15 822 27.21 14.90
14 815 26.74 14.78
13 820 27.07 14.87
12 821 27.14 14.88
11 845 28.75 15.32
10 841 28.48 15.25
9 842 28.55 15.27
8 845 28.75 15.32
7 843 28.61 15.28
6 844 28.68 15.30
5 840 28.41 15.23
4 833 27.94 15.10
3 821 27.14 14.88
2 835 28.07 15.14
1 827 27.54 14.99
Average: 826.4 FPS
SD: 16.8 FPS
Min: 787 FPS
Max: 848 FPS
Spread: 61 FPS
True MV: 832
Really nice string Travis!! Have you tried the heavier HN Barracuda match pellets by chance?
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my MROD has a WAR SSG and my disco double has a FFH .. the prod did not do well with the FFH, so pulled it out.
I am happy with the added shot count in both the rifles and I think it may have helped tame the ES a little in the disco double.
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Yes sir I have a homemade SSG in my Gen 1 Marauder, I'm not sure what the gain was from it but you can read my original post here
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=116797.msg1122648#msg1122648 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=116797.msg1122648#msg1122648)
I ended with 32 shots at 44.5fpe average and Bob (rstern) crunched the #s for me and told me that I ended with 1.43FPE/CI
Before the SSG it was still 32 shots but only 38fpe
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Surprises me that those guys don't read the forums and/or are not up on the aftermarket items for these guns.
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I made a basic SSG for the Disco, made an internal TSSG for the SynRod. Both work great, definately helped them both.
Right now I am testing something a bit different, it is self adjusting, numbers are on par with the Gap type debouncers, but with less cocking force for same fpe.
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Surprises me that those guys don't read the forums and/or are not up on the aftermarket items for these guns.
Honestly, I see the new "news" here way before articles or television reporting. There are some folks on this forum that are really in the know with cutting edge technology of air gunning. One of the reasons I love this forum. IMO I believe articles and television is driven more on who pays the most for reporting on their product and less on what is best. Another thing that makes GTA the best information format for air gunning.
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YES ... X2 of my own design.
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The guys with the lathes and other proper tools make some real nice stuff, I try to get by with a drill press, angle grinder and a couple of files.
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I bought one from WAR for my .25 Gen 2 Synr-rod, but never installed it.
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The guys with the lathes and other proper tools make some real nice stuff, I try to get by with a drill press, angle grinder and a couple of files.
This ^^ I mostly have axes and sharpened rocks and a skill level to match. I will settle for buying what the other guys have made. ;D
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You better believe I do. I use the DIY SSG along with the F.I.F.H. hammer from SynRodSteve for a deadly combination.
Here's what it looks like:
(http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll14/dkwachob/Forum%20Photos%20Do%20not%20delete/F.I.F.H.%2001_zpsimfvkagi.jpg~original)
Here is the build I used for the DIY SSG:
DIY SSG Build (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=110660.msg1108165#msg1108165)
Here are the results in my Synrod:
(http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll14/dkwachob/Forum%20Photos%20Do%20not%20delete/SSG%20FAME-FIFH%20SUM_zpsgj9y12ar.jpg~original)
The SSG makes the shot count increase and the shot noise quieter due to eliminating wasted air per shot.
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I have one in my regulated .25 gen 1
40 shots @ 40 fpe
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Geez, I keep seeing threads about SSG's. I looked at the 43 page thread in the sticky to try and understand what they are and what they do, but got lost in the technical chat on page one. :o Not being a machinist and not owning a lathe, I keep trying to ignore the concept, but it appears that an SSG is the magic key to high efficiency.
UPS is supposed to deliver my new .25 Syn-Rod this afternoon :D. I'm not going to do a lot to it until I've played with it for awhile, but my Disco on the other hand...
Is anybody selling a "drop in" unit?
Ron.
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I believe Travis at WAR is selling them.
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2 Synrods Norm and Cabbie... Both need mods for what I want to do... but it will be a slow process Norm(wood stock) needs Leade work for the BBT 40g and eventually want a 65 fpe tune. But want to tune down for the lighter stuff also...
Cabbie will be sending from 14g CPHP up to about 30g BBT with maybe some 35g+... hopefully out of a couple .22 lr barrels...want about a 60 fpe tune... So will have to figure out what is right at those power levels and the strengths and weaknesses of each system... and how tailor it to still be able to tune over a broad range of projectile weights...
so not yet...
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Yep. Gen 1 .177 Mrod with a WAR SSG. I went from about 30 shots at 2% ES to about 40 at 3%.
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Martis 1,
What an SSG does? It reduces hammer bounce against the valve. Each bounce causes a small amount of air to come out the valve. Unfortunately the pellet is only in the bore for the first strike. Each successive strike simply creates wasted air. The stock hammer spring applies pressure to the hammer for almost (if not all) of it's travel to the valve; this sets up the situation where the hammer will rebound between the valve stem and the hammer spring each time it is fired. Products like the WAR SSG uses a shorter and stiffer spring which is less compliant than the stock spring, so it compresses less effectively from the rebound off the valve stem. There is also a larger gap between the SSG spring and where the valve stem is. The hammer has to coast the last little bit (when launched by the hammer spring), before it strikes the stem of the valve, upon valve closure (and the hammer is heading towards the hammer spring), it once again has to coast along before it makes rebound contact with the hammer spring. Some people have gotten great efficiency by using a shorter (than stock) spring which is more stiff. The WAR SSG additionally has the advantage of having a greater range of adjustment (for low to higher power). On a really efficiently ported rifle, with quality components, it can be difficult to get a 25 caliber gun down to 40 FPE energy without having a rather large gap (coasting distance). I really like the WAR SSG, but will soon be evaluating the short stiff spring approach. What I am really looking forward to is WAR's upcoming double spring product.
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Thanks for the explanation Todd! Now I at least have a decent idea of the principal.
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Ol' BB Peltier cracks me up and I'll leave it at that.
I have a .25 cal M-Rod. When I go hunting ground squirrels I load up 3 magazines and go shootin'.
Pre-SSG I shot 3 magazines (24 shots) at an avg of 33.5 fpe (728 fps) and an ES of 5.35% or an optimum shot string of 15 shots at avg of 36.4 fpe (760 fps) and an ES of 4.08%.
With the SSG I can shoot 24 shots at an average of 45.6 fpe (851 fps) and an ES of 2.08%!
I bought one of the first run SSG's from Travis at WAR.
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"Ol' BB Peltier cracks me up and I'll leave it at that"
Yep, he is very knowledgeable when it comes to springers, but stay far, far away from his advice when it comes to pcp's and scopes. Even AF ag's where he worked for years.
It is said that you can't teach an old dog new tricks, and he is one fine example of this old saying! ;D
Knife
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Ol' BB Peltier cracks me up and I'll leave it at that.
I have a .25 cal M-Rod. When I go hunting ground squirrels I load up 3 magazines and go shootin'.
Pre-SSG I shot 3 magazines (24 shots) at an avg of 33.5 fpe (728 fps) and an ES of 5.35% or an optimum shot string of 15 shots at avg of 36.4 fpe (760 fps) and an ES of 4.08%.
With the SSG I can shoot 24 shots at an average of 45.6 fpe (851 fps) and an ES of 2.08%!
I bought one of the first run SSG's from Travis at WAR.
Pretty much like getting a whole new rifle!