GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => German AirGun Gate => Topic started by: Hornviper on December 25, 2016, 12:14:25 PM
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Hello and Merry Christmas,
I am ordering a new springer next week, and I wonder which will get more points. I watched pretty much all the reviews on YouTube and both rifles seem to be an utter rip-off. They say the Walther looks and feels cheap, its housing and trigger are horrible and a ton of other things. Others say that the new HW97s are a waste of money as Weihrauch haven't done any improvements since the late 70's. It's all a little confusing for someone who's considering these two rifles. YouTube's not always the best source of information, so I'd like to see what you guys think. I am sure that a lot of you have shot/owned/tuned/etc both rifles. The LGU is more advanced than the HW97, but that doesn't necessarily means it's better. On the other hand, the Rekord trigger's hard to beat. I realize they are not perfect, I just want to spend my cash on the better rifle.
Thank you.
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Hello and Merry Christmas,
I am ordering a new springer next week, and I wonder which will get more points. I watched pretty much all the reviews on YouTube and both rifles seem to be an utter rip-off. They say the Walther looks and feels cheap, its housing and trigger are horrible and a ton of other things. Others say that the new HW97s are a waste of money as Weihrauch haven't done any improvements since the late 70's. It's all a little confusing for someone who's considering these two rifles. YouTube's not always the best source of information, so I'd like to see what you guys think. I am sure that a lot of you have shot/owned/tuned/etc both rifles. The LGU is more advanced than the HW97, but that doesn't necessarily means it's better. On the other hand, the Rekord trigger's hard to beat. I realize they are not perfect, I just want to spend my cash on the better rifle.
Thank you.
Weirauch are excellent rifles I have had the opportunity to shoot several in the past year and a half or so and they are pricey but well made rifles I own a Beeman RX2 20 caliber and quality fit and finish are there. The other thing to remember change for the sake of change does not necessarily make for a better product just a different one. At the end of the day f you can try before you buy the choice will be an easier one to make. Check the member map and see if there are any members near you that may have one or both of the rifles you are interested in
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Thank you. I have to admit I am leaning toward the HW97K. It's an iconic air rifle. The only think I am worried about is the twang. A bit of "black tar" and it's gone. I don't have the luxury of shooting either of them. :(
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There may be a match trigger for the LGU which will improve it.
Twang can be reduced or eliminated by polishing the spring ends allowing them to spin more freely when fired.
You may wish to add the Diana 460 for consideration. I have heard good things about it, though it is a magnum.
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Yes, I've seen the 460. Are Dianas/RWSs on par with the WH? I am sure Diana Targethunter shoots like a dream but it costs lots of $$$. :)
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The twang and the trigger are the biggest differences.
If you don't mind the twang and prefer the Rekord trigger -0 which is better thans the standard LGU - buy the 97k, You coulf fix the twang later by fitting a spring kit or by having someone with a lathe make you a better fitting spring guide.
If you hate the twang of a standard 97k and are at peace with the less than perfect LGU-trigger, you will have a very good airgun with the LGU. You can always replace the trigger later.
Both are very accurate airguns, with the 97k having a long history as a field target gun. But no reason to assume the LGU couldn't do as well. In competitions the 97k is more often seen. Almost everyone has fitted a 12 fpe kit to get rid of the twang and conform to match rules. Almost everyone still shoots it with the standard Rekord. It only needs some adjustment, lowering trigger pull and second stage creep.
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Yes, I've seen the 460. Are Dianas/RWSs on par with the WH? I am sure Diana Targethunter shoots like a dream but it costs lots of $$$. :)
Yes, the Diana's are absolutely on par with the Weihrauchs, only the 460 is a magnum springer which requires some more effort to shoot accurate with. But..., when you have tamed the 460, also the accuracy is on par with the Weihrauch.
Btw, generally a Diana has better internals than the Weihrauch and the T06 trigger is a real dream IMHO. Out of the box better then the Record trigger.
Coming back to your original question about the LGU vs HW97k, if you can overcome the polymer trigger of the LGU (which is not bad at all - but just the fact that such an expensive airgun has a polymer trigger annoys me) and you don't like tinkering then go for the LGU !
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Thank you all for your time and helpful comments. I think I'll go with the HW97K as it is quite cheaper. I can get a pretty decent one for about 360 Euros (about $385). The LGU costs 480 Euros + 20-30 more for the metal trigger blade. It might be a better idea to get the HW97K + a tuning kit. The twang is not a big deal for me, to be honest. I will tune it as soon as possible anyway.
Some of the new Dianas come with n-tec gas rams, but I don't know much, if anything, about them. I agree that the T06 is a very good trigger. I will go and have a look at some of the Dianas too.
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At that price I'd probably JUMP on the HW97. Clean the barrel and run a tin or two of pellets through it before even considering a tune kit. You may LIKE the way it shoots from the box.
Personally I'm not sold on gas strut guns. I think springs are smoother and less snappy. If you can't adjust pressure in the gas strut tuning options are really limited, too.
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Some of the new HW97K have synthetic stocks which look really nice. I watched a few reviews and everyone says they are pretty solid (not hollow). Well, I am a little old-fashioned and will probably go for the wooden one. I have to admit that most of them look really, really nice.
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Hornviper,
I own both the HW97K and now the LGU. Both are 11.8 FPE versions ordered from Krale and received within 3-4 days. I have owned the HW97K for over a year and the LGU for only 2 days. The HW97K costs less than the LGU. It is accurate, has a great trigger (adjusted to 6-8 ounces) but has a lot of vibration and noise. You do not need a Vortek kit but only heat shrink tubing around the spring guide to tame the spring vibration. The LGU is as accurate as the HW97K. Mine has no vibration. It is very quiet but has a heavy 2.5 lb but crisp trigger pull with a very rough first stage. I have only shot about half a tin of JSB Exact pellets through it. I like the shot cycle much more than the HW97K but the cocking is much harder than the HW97K. I think it will get easier as I shoot it more. The LGU has an anti-bear trap lever release while the HW97K does not.
I shoot field target and wanted to get into piston WFTF class. So far either model would do well. I got the LGU because I needed a backup rifle and saw a lot of shooters using and winning matches with them. If money is the limiting factor, you cannot go wrong with the HW97K. But it will need work. One thing I hate doing to my HW97K is taking it apart. View the YouTube videos. It requires a lot more tools than the LGU. Two screwdrivers, a punch, two wrenches and rubber mallet or hammer compared to just hex wrenches and a single punch. I have not and am not planning on disassembling the LGU but will try to lighten and smoothen the trigger pull if possible. For both rifles, spring compressor is not needed since both are less than 12 FPE models.
Good luck on your purchase.
Leo
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I have An HW97 with the synthetic stock. I'm very happy with it. The stock is hollow, but I filled in the air spaces with plastic shopping bag material. I had the chance to shoot an LGU before I bought the HW. I liked it, but the prices for HW's on Krale's website sealed the deal for me. Both guns are accurate, and anyone who says they are junk needs to reconsider their opinion.
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I own 2 HW97 .20 and .177
Very accurate and so smooth and easy to shoot. Best of luck in your choice.
Take care
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At that price I'd probably JUMP on the HW97. Clean the barrel and run a tin or two of pellets through it before even considering a tune kit. You may LIKE the way it shoots from the box.
Personally I'm not sold on gas strut guns. I think springs are smoother and less snappy. If you can't adjust pressure in the gas strut tuning options are really limited, too.
Agree on the merits of a good old steel spring. Consistent, good for 10k+ shots, cheap and very easy to adjust and/or replace. There is a reason that most high end springers continue to use them.
R
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Thank you all. :)
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There's something I forgot to mention, guys. I am sorry. They both come in 11.8 fpe and 16.96 fpe. I assume most FT shooters would get the former. There are a lot of pests where I live. I am pretty sure either will do. Which one would you choose?
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I also have both an HW97 and an LGU. The HW trigger is superior but even with that advantage MY LGU will consistently shoot smaller groups than MY HW (the LGU trigger has had some work but out of the box it surpassed the HW in accuracy and smoothness). Your experience could be different and as noted you really can't go wrong with either. If I were buying another of these two it would be the LGU.
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There's something I forgot to mention, guys. I am sorry. They both come in 11.8 fpe and 16.96 fpe. I assume most FT shooters would get the former. There are a lot of pests where I live. I am pretty sure either will do. Which one would you choose?
The 11.8 Fpe will be a little easier to shoot well with less of a learning curve the higher power springers un tuned are a little less forgiving of less then perfect shooting form. JMHO
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I agree that the more powerful springers are much less forgiving. No doubt about that. I think both the 12fpe and the 16.8 fpe rifles are tuned in the same way, aren't they? Well, the twang/vibration of the latter are more brutal. :)
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I agree that the more powerful springers are much less forgiving. No doubt about that. I think both the 12fpe and the 16.8 fpe rifles are tuned in the same way, aren't they? Well, the twang/vibration of the latter are more brutal. :)
Much of the Twang and Torque of the spring can be removed by polishing the spring ends and thin layer of molly to the top hat and shims then a spring guide that is slightly snug when the spring is fully un compressed
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I have three HW97K's. All of them are equpped with the 20 Joule spring. My .22 and .20 are easy to shoot accurately in stock form and are not very pellet picky.
The .177 is the most difficult for me to shoot and I think it would benefit from a tune at some point.
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I have three HW97K's. All of them are equpped with the 20 Joule spring. My .22 and .20 are easy to shoot accurately in stock form and are not very pellet picky.
The .177 is the most difficult for me to shoot and I think it would benefit from a tune at some point.
Maybe you should try a 16 joule spring in the .177 version? I think it will be a lot smother
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Thank you for chiming in.
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I think I'll go with the HW97K. I will probably get burned, but...Any tuning kit recommendations? I think there are a few options, but I don't know which one's the best. The V-Mach is quite popular at the moment, and probably has been for a while.
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I too have both an LGU and a 97K.
The 97 was tuned by Motorhead and the LGU was tuned by lil' ole' me. I did a major trigger mod on the LGU. It was the only way to get the trigger as good as the 97.
There is no difference in the accuracy of either gun. On any given day, one will outshoot the other. It is a fun game to play.
Either gun will make you proud. I did find the LGU had some vibration before the tune, but now it is more than under control.
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Here's my 2ct, first off I have owned several 97's in all calibers, I also have 3 Walther's 2 LGU's a.177 an a .22cal I have also owned 3 Diana 460mags 2 T05s and my current T06 in .22cal, and wouldn't want to get rid of any of them! all are very good rifles but their all very different as well! I'll start off with the HW97, it is a fine gun! the Record trigger is hard to beat for an out of the box air gun compared to the Walther and the Diana triggers, that being said the T05 and T06 and the Walther trigger can be tweaked and fine tuned to be just as good as the HW Rekord trigger unit if you know what ur doing and it isn't all that hard either IMO, the Diana'460 is also a very good gun on par quality wise with the HW's not quite! but close, Diana's are more of a high end field hunting rifle, I'm not saying their not target accurate because they are! but the mechanics are not as stable or refined as the HW, as far as the internal build between HW97 and Diana's 460 are almost identical with the 460 having a larger compression tube and piston, way more power then the other 2 rifles were talking about here especially in .22cal, so IMO I would rate the Diana's at the bottom of these 3 guns as far as over all quality but not in power JMO, now lets compare the Walther LGU over the HW97, before we do that let me tell you how I like my triggers, first off I like a LOOOONG 1st stage trigger pull on a 2st trigger! why u ask because their more forgiving and more predictable especially in a hunting situation where ur quarry may decide to move around on u before u can take the shot! u back off the trigger a little and go back to where u were, the Rekord trigger will only give u so much 1st length of pull, IMO the fulcrum point for me is to far forward very usable yes but IMO the further back u can set the fulcrum point the easier it is to get the 2nd stage to break where u want it! this why allot of folks go to an after market set back trigger blade replacement, the record trigger unit is very good accept for that IMO, the Walther triggers, were talking about the single blade adjustment trigger that we get here in the U.S. out of the box needs some attention for sure but it doesn't take much to get it in a very good state of match grade if you can stand the LOONG 1st stage which I like anyway! now add the 2 screw tuning trigger and with a little TLC to it and u have a fully adjustable trigger unit that has a 1st stage adjustment a 2nd stage adjustment and a over all pressure adjustment that u can set anywhere u want it! for about 40bucks + shipping unless u buy it from Krale's along with the rifle, and yes I have polished all the sears and changed out the over all pressure spring in all of my Walther rifles and these trigger every bit as good and even better due to the adjustability of them over the Rekord unit JMO, as far as the over all quality of the Walther's compared to the HW guns every bit as nice, but where the Walther's really shine is in the internal build quality! Hands down the Walther's are way better then HW or Diana! their even better then the Air Arms TX or Pro Sport in the internal build IMO, because I've had them all and I know from a tuning stand point YMMV, I wish Walther would offer these rifles in a .20cal then IMO they'd be the cats meow! If I were to buy another HW97 which I wont because I have a good 1 it would be a .20cal, IMO this is the best caliber available in this plat form JMO, anyway I like all my air guns that I currently have their all keepers! these are just my thoughts and opinions and experiences with these rifles, IMO the Walther's are right up there with the AA gun's at a far less cost! ;D :P
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That was a lot more than 2 cents worth and well worth reading.